Visa Agents - Why Should We Be Castigated For Using Them

[NancyL]

13 hours ago, Flustered said:

I have no idea why a post keep on picking up someone elses name as I did not quote them.

 

My post.

 

Reading these posts, it is obvious that some FMs are very passionate about back handers and "corruption". I put corruption in quotes because what is corruption for one is a normal way of life for another.

 

 

When you come to Thailand, do you honestly expect everyone to behave the same as back in your home country whether it is America, UK, Australia etc. because of you do you are sadly mistaken.

 

 

In Middle Eastern countries, the 10% off the top for the agent is a way of life going back centuries. Greasing palms to get to see someone or being awarded a gong has been the way of the west for centuries so why get so high and mighty when some Thais are entrepreneurial enough to start a company that does the work for someone wanting a visa and who does not want the hassle.

 

 

What is the problem of a poorly paid worker getting a backhander to expedite a visa. Since when was it a necessity to impose western moralistic values on Thailand. You knew what the country was like when you came here so if you don't like it, go back home to your perfect world. And that is a joke, America is probably the most corrupt country in the world. At least in Thailand, the guys at the bottom get to wet their beaks.

How do you explain the fact that it's not necessary for retirees to employ visa agents in other provinces in order to receive service in a timely fashion?  That it seems to be a situation unique to Chiang Mai.

 

It's not a "way of life" that we should accept as a cultural norm when it's specific to just one province.

[worgeordie]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

Damn right Gordie, we should all get to sit in Business and First Class with our economy class tickets too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

?

Dante 99, people are paying for a FREE service, what has that to do with

first class,business class,which is not free.

regards worgeordie

[true blue]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

How do you explain the fact that it's not necessary for retirees to employ visa agents in other provinces in order to receive service in a timely fashion?  That it seems to be a situation unique to Chiang Mai.

 

It's not a "way of life" that we should accept as a cultural norm when it's specific to just one province.

Surely there must be agents in other provinces advertising there products including visa services.can not see the Thais not utilising a cash cow situation and pushing immigration help.if not cnx is lucky to have choices.

[Chicog]

13 minutes ago, true blue said:

Surely there must be agents in other provinces advertising there products including visa services.can not see the Thais not utilising a cash cow situation and pushing immigration help.if not cnx is lucky to have choices.

Or it's made the service so deliberately bad that it essentially forces some clients into using them.

 

[Flustered]

5 hours ago, NancyL said:

How do you explain the fact that it's not necessary for retirees to employ visa agents in other provinces in order to receive service in a timely fashion?  That it seems to be a situation unique to Chiang Mai.

 

It's not a "way of life" that we should accept as a cultural norm when it's specific to just one province.

It is not specific to one region, it's Thailand where everything is different. If you don't like it which you obviously don't then leave. It's not your country. You are simply a guest at their bidding.

 

It has been like this as long as I can remember.

 

Back in 1981, I decided to stay longer in Phuket and it was not easy then to extend a visa. My Thai "family" arranged for a senior immigration officer to visit us and for the sum of 1,000 baht, I had a 6 week extension stamped in my passport.

 

Please get it through your heads, this is not your country so do not moralise when your own countries are far from perfect.

 

 

[pgrahmm]

1 hour ago, true blue said:

Surely there must be agents in other provinces advertising there products including visa services.can not see the Thais not utilising a cash cow situation and pushing immigration help.if not cnx is lucky to have choices.

Sure, there must be in the heavy expat saturated/living/popular areas....

 

Not much need in the Nakon Nowhere places....

 

Our family is in the outer areas of Suphan Buri - I bet the biggest obstacle there would be the differing multiple languages that might appear at the counter...

 

So far this thread really hasn't addressed items such as that....It's been primarily an English language based, (and predictable thought process), series of observations....

 

There's people here from how many different countries? We tend to flatter ourselves - thinking ourselves to be the pre-eminent ones.....

 

[jpinx]

If you are in farangland and you want good service from a hotel doorman -- you tip him, or a waiter in a restaurant - sometime even when there is a service charge, or a bar if you want continuous top-up, even in a non-self-service petrol-station.   These are the service staff perks they get for doing "better than normal" for the customer who is in front of him.  Did you not give your postman and milkman, etc a bottle or a cake for Xmas?

 

Where perks turn into corruption is when the "perks" are an expectation.  Given the level of salary of government workers, it's no surprise they want a little extra and are very grateful for appreciation expressed, but when it is added to the price, then it is corruption...

[Chicog]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

If you are in farangland and you want good service from a hotel doorman -- you tip him, or a waiter in a restaurant - sometime even when there is a service charge, or a bar if you want continuous top-up, even in a non-self-service petrol-station.   These are the service staff perks they get for doing "better than normal" for the customer who is in front of him.  Did you not give your postman and milkman, etc a bottle or a cake for Xmas?

 

Where perks turn into corruption is when the "perks" are an expectation.  Given the level of salary of government workers, it's no surprise they want a little extra and are very grateful for appreciation expressed, but when it is added to the price, then it is corruption...

 

Er.... When perks turn into corruption is when perks are illegal.

 

The fact that it's maybe cheap to do in comparative terms has no bearing on its legality.

 

 

 

 

[scottiejohn]

3 hours ago, Flustered said:

If you don't like it which you obviously don't then leave. It's not your country. You are simply a guest at their bidding.

You may not have noticed but NancyL, the person you quoted above has stated on this Forum that she and the other half are leaving CM for Malaysia.

 

I have no knowledge as to Thai Immigration Officer’s thoughts on her departure to pastures new.

Maybe, that after a weight has been removed from their backs, they might be able to get on and make the changes they may already know are required. They can then promote the changes as their own ideas and get promoted and expand their ‘Empire’ as a result and not be seen to Kowtow to ‘She who must be obeyed’ as I suspect they may perceive her.

 

If and when any positive and practical changes are made to the system then maybe there will be no reason or wish to use a Visa Agent but I very much doubt it. The problems have been here long before the move to Prom and NancyL’s perceived intervention(s).

 

Just a thought! Could we see the high street Visa agents picketing the airport to stop her departure and Immigration Officers giving her a Fast Track exit courtesy of G4!

Edited February 21, 2017 by scottiejohn

[juehoe]

I think it depends on the type of visa.

My visa is «married with a Thai women, based on work permit». The paper work includes several dozen of pages. The local regulations change sometimes.

So for me, investing in a visa agent is worth the money (THB 13,000). It saves me a lot of time and headaches.

I also make the 90-days report by them (THB 500) because it saves me time.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Flustered]

If NancyL thinks that Malaysia is any different, she will be sadly disappointed.

 

In Malaysia, they get their money in a different way. Foreigners have to pay more for public services than locals. She will love that.

 

For instancef you use the Funiclua in Penang you are hit for being a foreigner.

http://penanghill.gov.my/index.php/en/ticket-service

Or the Hop on Hop off Bus that officially charges you more than locals.

 

It's the same all over Malaysia. if you are a foreigner, even a Malaysia my second home foreigner, you are charged much more than Malaysians.

 

The difference in Malaysia is that the Government have the monopoly on overcharging and kick backs.

 

As I said earlier. Every country is different and has it's own ways of ripping you off. Thailand is not unique but at least the guys in the ground floor can make a baht or two unlike "civilised" countries where the Government screw you.

[jpinx]

15 hours ago, Chicog said:

 

Er.... When perks turn into corruption is when perks are illegal.

 

The fact that it's maybe cheap to do in comparative terms has no bearing on its legality.

 

 

 

 

That's kinda been answered in the following posts about Malaysia.  To define the difference between a "tip" and  "corruption" would need an army of lawyers. Corruption has a aspect of expectation - maybe that's the difference, but there's corruption everywhere, EU< UK< USA< et al......

[SooKee]

On 21/02/2017 at 1:51 PM, Chicog said:

Or it's made the service so deliberately bad that it essentially forces some clients into using them.

 

Fortunately I only had to do an extension at CM once and having just done one at BKK there looked to be quite a few agents around at Chaengwattana but the ones I saw seemed to be more involved with bulk applications on the worker side.  Hard to tell of course if all the caucasians who were accompanied were there with Thai friends, partners or agents but there was nobody jumping queues so it would seem likely not to be the latter.  BKK Immigration office sure is big and crazy busy but I still managed to get a TM28, 90 day report, extension and multiple re-entry permit done in about 2.5 hours.  Staff very efficient, friendly and helpful.  Far more pleasant place to sit and hang around in too.

 

Unless you simply don't have the time (through working etc) or inclination (it is a bit of a slog to CW but no real hardship - 15 minutes on the MRT/BTS to Mo Chit then 20-30 mins in a taxi - all in air-con of course plus the inevitable sitting around waiting for process completion) there would seem to be little need to use an agent in BKK.

Edited February 23, 2017 by SooKee

[NancyL]

On 2/21/2017 at 6:31 PM, Flustered said:

If NancyL thinks that Malaysia is any different, she will be sadly disappointed.

 

In Malaysia, they get their money in a different way. Foreigners have to pay more for public services than locals. She will love that.

 

For instancef you use the Funiclua in Penang you are hit for being a foreigner.

http://penanghill.gov.my/index.php/en/ticket-service

Or the Hop on Hop off Bus that officially charges you more than locals.

 

It's the same all over Malaysia. if you are a foreigner, even a Malaysia my second home foreigner, you are charged much more than Malaysians.

 

The difference in Malaysia is that the Government have the monopoly on overcharging and kick backs.

 

As I said earlier. Every country is different and has it's own ways of ripping you off. Thailand is not unique but at least the guys in the ground floor can make a baht or two unlike "civilised" countries where the Government screw you.

You're confusing dual pricing with corruption.  Dual pricing exists in the west, too.

 

Forgot to mention some of the benefits of the MM2H visa also.  Like how you can bring in your household goods, vehicle and pets duty free. How you can buy a car (including an imported one) during the first year duty and tax free.  How you can own your own home AND land.  And you don't have to report your every move to Immigration.  No 90 day reports, TM30s, annual extensions.

[Flustered]

7 minutes ago, NancyL said:

You're confusing dual pricing with corruption.  Dual pricing exists in the west, too.

 

Forgot to mention some of the benefits of the MM2H visa also.  Like how you can bring in your household goods, vehicle and pets duty free. How you can buy a car (including an imported one) during the first year duty and tax free.  How you can own your own home AND land.  And you don't have to report your every move to Immigration.  No 90 day reports, TM30s, annual extensions.

Good luck to you. I have lived in Malaysia and it's no where near as welcoming as Thailand.Once you take your rose tinted glasses off, you will find many additions as a non Malaysian to the cost of owning your own home and land. Still whatever rocks your boat.

 

Not sure of your nationality but they do not like Americans very much, they come a close second to the Brits. All of us are imperialists and Colonialists and any other "list" you care to think of.

 

You may want to steer clear of Penang, it is hotter and more humid than Phuket.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Flustered

[TheFishman1]

In Belize when you get a retirement visa easy to do you can bring in all your household items and a car Duty free own your own house and land no problem 

[NancyL]

43 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Good luck to you. I have lived in Malaysia and it's no where near as welcoming as Thailand.Once you take your rose tinted glasses off, you will find many additions as a non Malaysian to the cost of owning your own home and land. Still whatever rocks your boat.

 

Not sure of your nationality but they do not like Americans very much, they come a close second to the Brits. All of us are imperialists and Colonialists and any other "list" you care to think of.

 

You may want to steer clear of Penang, it is hotter and more humid than Phuket.

Yes, we're definitely steering clear of Penang.  All of west Malaysia in fact.  People don't realize that Borneo is part of Malaysia and is very different from west Malaysia.

[Flustered]

59 minutes ago, NancyL said:

 

Don't forget there is a dusk to dawn curfew in six Sabah east coast districts. You may want to avoid these areas as there is a lot of political unrest and kidnappings.
 

[scottiejohn]

?Is there any chance of you discussing Malaysia, Belize etc elsewhere, like in Malaysia and stick to agents and relevant subjects.

Edited February 23, 2017 by scottiejohn
Cannot complete editing. System problem

[luther]

Unless you have been to a place multiple times over a period of years, unless you have friends who have lived there four or five years, you are taking a huge risk moving anywhere...moving as in going there to settle in/retire. I've known older folks who've picked and then pulled up stakes in Belize, Costa Rica, Borneo, Kathmandu, Oaxaca, and Hawaii.

 

Visa hoops are rarely the major source of dissatisfaction...except two people I know who have recently changed plans on where they will end up have crossed off the US, because after 8 years, the spouse (married to a American) still could not get close to citizenship and was being called back to the US for bio-metric tests to extend a green card on the spur of the moment.

[NancyL]

And I know plenty of older folks who have picked up and moved to Chiang Mai only to discover it wasn't what they expected and either returned to their home countries or relocated elsewhere like Ecuador, Peru, Hawaii, Malaysia, etc.  

 

But, you're right, visa hoops isn't THE major source of dissatisfaction, just one of the many.  Along with seasonal air pollution, not realizing how hot it can get here, wanting to be near a beach, traffic and long wait times to drive short distances, insane drivers, inability to walk around without falling on the footpaths or getting hit by traffic, difficulty in obtaining needed medications or continuing medical treatments, and even not wanting to be confronted with hoards of Chinese everywhere you go.  Not all these things bother everyone, but these are some of the reasons I've heard for people pulling up stakes and leaving Chiang Mai.  

[evenstevens]

   ^^^^^^^^it certainly appears from your posts of the last week or so ,on various threads ,tha you have started a Hate campaign,on retiring in C/MAI etc etc

due to you not coming to grips ,or simply not  adjusting to ways of life here,your failed crusade against   C/mai Immgr Dept was doomed from the start,with your insane Western tactics which you posted on this board,    Nancy L,.....  E/S has already wished you the best of luck  on your new retirement in Malaysia, ,

 But would ,nt it be fitting and a very nice way to leave C/mai, without slagging C/mai with problems etc etc  that you could not overcome, where thousands of other Expats  have done so,  and led a very happy retirement life here in C/mai,  go out on a nicer note good morning to all

 

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by evenstevens

[metisdead]

As there have been a number of insults and flames removed already and more insults and flames likely to continue, to reduce the tension, this topic is now closed.