Chaos, confusion, confrontation and conning...Pattaya Immigration

[zombie nights]

At Pattaya Immigration to the left is a room for house owners etc to notify immigration of aliens staying at their property within 24 hours. Today I observed first hand some disgraceful, disrespectful and almost certainly legally suspect behavior towards a number of people trying in most cases to properly give notification under TM 30.

The officials are now saying that house owners must personally attend and give notification. Tenants CANNOT do so.

There is now in that section on a wall in the office a long list of requirements to satisfy  TM 30.

It is also apparent that people are being fined or told to pay fines even when their paper work is in order.

I witnessed people complaining to the highest level at this office about the current practice  yet excuses being raised by officialdom to protect those soliciting fines.

Officials are saying address changes are done  by TM  30 and not TM 28

I hope others who have had recently visited this section of Pattaya Immigration would relate their experiences here.

Maybe I was there on a bad day......

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by zombie nights

[Lovethailandelite]

As has been posted many times. If you failed in the past to file a TM30 or failed to have a TM30 filed on each and every entry to Thailand and at some stage need to deal with Jontiem Immigration for an extension, Resident permit etc they will eventually catch up with you and apply the fine and require you to file it. Jomtien Immigration expect it on each and every occasion you leave and enter the country within 24 hrs of arriving back at your place of abode. The also expect it each and every time within 24hrs of arriving back to your place of abode when you leave the province for more than 24hrs. 
Pattaya is being looked at for unlicensed hotels and Guesthouses on a daily and ongoing basis. Apparently there is only 239 licenced hotels and guesthouses out of over a 1000 operating. Some have been closed down already. IMO, It's no surprise they are now asking for owners to appear at Immigration themselves to file the TM30. It's the Law regarding the TM30 needing to be filed so I see no Legally suspect behaviour in what they are doing.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Lovethailandelite

[R123]

So Love Thailand: are u saying that someone on a retirement extension with reentry permit who leaves and returns to Thailand must notify immigration under tm 30?

[worgeordie]

It is the Landlord who has to report the TM30,nothing to do with the tenant,*

the problem is some are too lazy,cannot be bothered to,or maybe afraid they

get reported to tax office for not paying the tax on the rental payments.

*only has to supply details of passport etc, which the Landlord should already 

have on the contract.

regards worgeordie

[BritTim]

6 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

It is the Landlord who has to report the TM30,nothing to do with the tenant,*

the problem is some are too lazy,cannot be bothered to,or maybe afraid they

get reported to tax office for not paying the tax on the rental payments.

*only has to supply details of passport etc, which the Landlord should already 

have on the contract.

regards worgeordie

In some (probably many) cases, requiring the landlord to attend within 24 hours can be completely unreasonable. Basically, this means that non resident landlords are banned. It is acceptable IMHO to require the landlord to attend the first time the tenant enters the property, but the tenant ought (assuming he has the appropriate documentation) to be able to submit the TM30 on the landlord's behalf for future trips. That assumes requiring a report for each and every trip is reasonable in the first place, not necessarily the case even if that is the law as written.

[mngmn]

Are you saying that they require the LANDLORD to notify each and every entry of their tenants into Thailand BUT they are fining the TENANTS if the landlord fails to do so?

Edited February 28, 2017 by mngmn

[NanLaew]

25 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

As has been posted many times. If you failed in the past to file a TM30 or failed to have a TM30 filed on each and every entry to Thailand and at some stage need to deal with Jontiem Immigration for an extension, Resident permit etc they will eventually catch up with you and apply the fine and require you to file it. Jomtien Immigration expect it on each and every occasion you leave and enter the country within 24 hrs of arriving back at your place of abode. The also expect it each and every time within 24hrs of arriving back to your place of abode when you leave the province for more than 24hrs. 
Pattaya is being looked at for unlicensed hotels and Guesthouses on a daily and ongoing basis. Apparently there is only 239 licenced hotels and guesthouses out of over a 1000 operating. Some have been closed down already. IMO, It's no surprise they are now asking for owners to appear at Immigration themselves to file the TM30. It's the Law regarding the TM30 needing to be filed so I see no Legally suspect behaviour in what they are doing.

I have done three retirement extensions and three 90 day reports at Jomtien over the past 4 years and never been troubled for a TM30. I heard that Udon immigration were asking extension applicants and 90-day reporters to get the landlord to fill in the TM30 but most can self-file (or get their partner to file) as 'possessor' of the residence albeit a tenant or temporary visitor. I think I submitted one with last years extension as 'belt and braces' but it was handed back as it was unnecessary.

 

Maybe they are focusing on getting the unregistered small hotel and guest house operators to show face. TM30's can be filed by mail as well as online (after registration) but not sure if Jomtien supports the latter.

[Cynical Sailor]

I returned from Vientiane last Friday week having got my second Ed Visa. I reported my address to this office on Monday of last week as advised by my school. No problem at all.

[Asiantravel]

" Tenants CANNOT do so "

 

why? The tenant has the most time on their hands to do this.

I travel  throughout Asia and  I have never seen these kinds of ridiculous standards in any other country

[Asiantravel]

10 minutes ago, mngmn said:

Are you saying that they require the LANDLORD to notify each and every entry of their tenants into Thailand BUT they are fining the TENANTS if the landlord fails to do so?

amazing Thailand

[USPatriot]

I was standing at my landlords computer two times he was unable to log in. I know they do report everyone.

 

I'm sure I'll have to pay a fine

[Cynical Sailor]

I was standing at my landlords computer two times he was unable to log in. I know they do report everyone.
 
I'm sure I'll have to pay a fine

The Agent I rent through told me online address reporting hasn't been available since December.

[thaitero]

So what is the latest on this issue in my case ?

I have tm30 slip stapled to my passport. Tm30 has been made more than in year ago at jomtien. I have been in and out several times from Thailand and even applied extension to touristvisas. All they asked then was copy of my stapled tm30 slip.

Now i have been 3 months in europe and coming back to my thaihome within 2 weeks without visa. No address change and address is a condo i own..
So do i need to go immigration to report myself within 24 hours after landing?

Edited February 28, 2017 by thaitero

[USPatriot]

1 hour ago, Cynical Sailor said:

 

The Agent I rent through told me online address reporting hasn't been available since December.

 

To generate more fines.

[Lovethailandelite]

25 minutes ago, thaitero said:

So what is the latest on this issue in my case ?

I have tm30 slip stapled to my passport. Tm30 has been made more than in year ago at jomtien. I have been in and out several times from Thailand and even applied extension to touristvisas. All they asked then was copy of my stapled tm30 slip.

Now i have been 3 months in europe and coming back to my thaihome within 2 weeks without visa. No address change and address is a condo i own..
So do i need to go immigration to report myself within 24 hours after landing?

That's exactly what they require you to do. No need to fill in a new TM30. Your original slip, passport and new TM6 is all you need.
The issues arise when they decide to check on the TM30 reporting whilst doing any other business there as people have found out since around October time. Your choice of course as to whether  you do it or not but they certainly do issue the fines when eventually you get caught out.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

In some (probably many) cases, requiring the landlord to attend within 24 hours can be completely unreasonable. Basically, this means that non resident landlords are banned. It is acceptable IMHO to require the landlord to attend the first time the tenant enters the property, but the tenant ought (assuming he has the appropriate documentation) to be able to submit the TM30 on the landlord's behalf for future trips. That assumes requiring a report for each and every trip is reasonable in the first place, not necessarily the case even if that is the law as written.

The problem is Jomtien Immigration appear to be running it to the letter of the law. As unacceptable is it may seem, and I am no Immigration lawyer or fan of it all, but unless you comply, then I would say you are in the country illegally if it isn't done. Is there a consequence of that should they really want to make it an issue? It isn't going away, in fact Jomtien seem to of stepped it up a notch. I am just going along with it myself after donating them 4000bht until they tell me otherwise.

[onemorechang]

I have always believed i was never a welcome guest in Thailand.

Maybe i was right all along.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by onemorechang

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

In some (probably many) cases, requiring the landlord to attend within 24 hours can be completely unreasonable. Basically, this means that non resident landlords are banned. It is acceptable IMHO to require the landlord to attend the first time the tenant enters the property, but the tenant ought (assuming he has the appropriate documentation) to be able to submit the TM30 on the landlord's behalf for future trips. That assumes requiring a report for each and every trip is reasonable in the first place, not necessarily the case even if that is the law as written.

If you are returning to the same address, you can tell them this, and they will reference your old TM-30 slip to create the new slip, and the Landlord's attendance would not be required. 

Also, in many cases, the tenant is the "possessor" - such as in a long-term lease of a condo.  In that case, they do not require the "landlord" to attend at all - you "tm-30 yourself," as it were. 

 

But if you are staying in a guesthouse, that is another story.  If this is now occurring, I agree with the earlier poster that they are likely trying to crack down on illegal-guesthouses and/or tax-issues.  For awhile, it seemed there were letting everyone self-report.

[Lovethailandelite]

2 hours ago, R123 said:

So Love Thailand: are u saying that someone on a retirement extension with reentry permit who leaves and returns to Thailand must notify immigration under tm 30?

If in the Jomtien immigration area then 100% yes because they are enforcing it. Not all are immigration offices are. Best to check with your immigration office what they require themselves.

[petermik]

7 hours ago, onemorechang said:

I have always believed i was never a welcome guest in Thailand.

Maybe i was right all along.

 

 

You are welcome as long as you toe the line,conform to the ever changing rules and are prepared to offer inducements........otherwise stay away as farang does not understand "thainess"

[swissie]

TM 30 is of no concern to a Farang staying at a Hotel/Guesthouse. TM 28 ? Do as I did: Ignore it. If ever this TM 28 nonsense should seriously be enforced, Farang Retirees might as well consider North Korea as a retirement destination.

 

Question to the experts: Is there ANY other country on this planet, that resembles the Thai TM 28 outrage ? (Exept North Korea and Russia).

[Lovethailandelite]

10 minutes ago, swissie said:

TM 30 is of no concern to a Farang staying at a Hotel/Guesthouse. TM 28 ? Do as I did: Ignore it. If ever this TM 28 nonsense should seriously be enforced, Farang Retirees might as well consider North Korea as a retirement destination.

 

Question to the experts: Is there ANY other country on this planet, that resembles the Thai TM 28 outrage ? (Exept North Korea and Russia).

The TM30 is very much a concern when you require an extension of stay or a Residence permit for a Driving licence or to purchase a vehicle when you need to deal with an Immigration office that is enforcing it. As I have said, the Law states it needs to be done and if it isn't, technically your in the country illegally. If you think it's not being taken seriously now, you may very well be in for shock very shortly.

[chickenslegs]

2 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The problem is Jomtien Immigration appear to be running it to the letter of the law. As unacceptable is it may seem, and I am no Immigration lawyer or fan of it all, but unless you comply, then I would say you are in the country illegally if it isn't done. Is there a consequence of that should they really want to make it an issue? It isn't going away, in fact Jomtien seem to of stepped it up a notch. I am just going along with it myself after donating them 4000bht until they tell me otherwise.

This is the very first time I have heard of someone being fined at Jomtien for failing to submit a TM30. Personally, I have visited Jomtien Immigration 7 times in the past 12 months (3x 90 day reports, 2x re-entry permits, 1x extension of stay, 1x transfer of visa etc. into new passport) and was never asked for TM30. A neighbour who was worried (after reading Thaivisa Forum , tried to submit a TM30 at Jomtien and had it handed back to him with a big smile ( Mai Ow).

 

I am not disputing the verity of your post - but - was this an "official" fine, or (as you called it) a "donation"?

[Lovethailandelite]

9 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

This is the very first time I have heard of someone being fined at Jomtien for failing to submit a TM30. Personally, I have visited Jomtien Immigration 7 times in the past 12 months (3x 90 day reports, 2x re-entry permits, 1x extension of stay, 1x transfer of visa etc. into new passport) and was never asked for TM30. A neighbour who was worried (after reading Thaivisa Forum , tried to submit a TM30 at Jomtien and had it handed back to him with a big smile ( Mai Ow).

 

I am not disputing the verity of your post - but - was this an "official" fine, or (as you called it) a "donation"?

The fines are official with a receipt. Read the OP post and many others on the forum regarding Jomtien. I suggest your neighbour go's back and asks to be directed to the right office for dealing with the TM30 which I believe has now moved downstairs. Yours is not the first post of someone at Jomtien saying it isn't required only for the person who at one was given the wrong information to be subsequently fined at a later stage for failing to report. I would of thought the amount of people going through that office it would be impossible to get everyone everyday that hasn't filed the report or there would be a line up back to the beach and nothing would move. They may not of got you yet but for sure at some stage they will.

[chickenslegs]

35 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The fines are official with a receipt. Read the OP post and many others on the forum regarding Jomtien. I suggest your neighbour go's back and asks to be directed to the right office for dealing with the TM30 which I believe has now moved downstairs. Yours is not the first post of someone at Jomtien saying it isn't required only for the person who at one was given the wrong information to be subsequently fined at a later stage for failing to report. I would of thought the amount of people going through that office it would be impossible to get everyone everyday that hasn't filed the report or there would be a line up back to the beach and nothing would move. They may not of got you yet but for sure at some stage they will.

As I said - I do not dispute the verity of your post. I accept the fact that you were fined 4,000 Baht and that you have the receipt to prove it. It was you that called it a "donation". Neither did I say that the TM 30 is not required, within the letter of the law.

 

The OP does not state that he was fined, but appears to believe that others were fined unfairly.

 

Yes, as you say, there is a massive number of foreigners going through Jomtien Immigration every day. Yes, if they tried to fine everyone there would be a queue back to the beach. But, all I am saying is that you are the first I have heard of to be fined for not submitting a TM30 at Jomtien.

 

To my knowledge, you are the only poster to have been fined at Jomtien and not one single fine receipt has been posted here to show that people are being penalised for not submitting TM30's at Jomtien immigration.

 

Again, just to be clear - I am not doubting anything you say about your 4,000 Baht fine.

Edited February 28, 2017 by chickenslegs

[Lovethailandelite]

19 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

As I said - I do not dispute the verity of your post. I accept the fact that you were fined 4,000 Baht and that you have the receipt to prove it. It was you that called it a "donation". Neither did I say that the TM 30 is not required, within the letter of the law.

 

The OP does not state that he was fined, but appears to believe that others were fined unfairly.

 

Yes, as you say, there is a massive number of foreigners going through Jomtien Immigration every day. Yes, if they tried to fine everyone there would be a queue back to the beach. But, all I am saying is that you are the first I have heard of to be fined for not submitting a TM30 at Jomtien.

 

To my knowledge, you are the only poster to have been fined at Jomtien and not one single fine receipt has been posted here to show that people are being penalised for not submitting TM30's at Jomtien immigration.

 

Again, just to be clear - I am not doubting anything you say about your 4,000 Baht fine.

Sorry if you took my 'Donation' wording as exactly that! I was just trying to laugh it off because I really cannot be bothered getting wound up with immigration matters after the years I have been around Thailand 
In the grand scheme of things, the amount of posters that actually post here, very few seem to either want to talk about there experiences with immigration offices full stop. Nobody seems to want to admit to being fined. But go to Jomtien and it's rife with people moaning about it. Here,it is more or less just the same old questions or problems of where to get an extension, do I need a return air ticket, how much and how long does my money need to be in the bank or how many pictures do I need for my marriage extension. When people do have a problem and ask for help, how many actually report back on how it eventually turned out for them? I would expect the next week or so to be denominated with posts regarding how people have been charged for getting a Tourist visit because they thought they were free until the end of August but the info has been posted but nobody will read it and still be surprised when they have to pay. The TM30 issue will take a back seat....until next time  

[chickenslegs]

My real point is that, with hundreds of people passing through Jomtien Immigration every day, we have very few (just one AFAIK) examples of people being fined for no TM30.

 

Maybe folks who have been fined will read this and give us more examples. Maybe the foreign volunteers at Jomtien can tell us how many offenders have been caught out.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by chickenslegs

[Lovethailandelite]

5 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

My real point is that, with hundreds of people passing through Jomtien Immigration every day, we have very few (just one AFAIK) examples of people being fined for no TM30.

 

Maybe folks who have been fined will read this and give us more examples. Maybe the foreign volunteers at Jomtien can tell us how many offenders have been caught out.

 

 

Fact is, not as many people even read these boards as assumed there is let alone post on them. Can you blame them when you see some of the responses on here at times? People are just not interested hence the amount that get turned away from consulates on a daily basis for failing to have the correct paperwork because they are just not aware of the requirements.

[dotpoom]

12 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

As has been posted many times. If you failed in the past to file a TM30 or failed to have a TM30 filed on each and every entry to Thailand and at some stage need to deal with Jontiem Immigration for an extension, Resident permit etc they will eventually catch up with you and apply the fine and require you to file it. Jomtien Immigration expect it on each and every occasion you leave and enter the country within 24 hrs of arriving back at your place of abode. The also expect it each and every time within 24hrs of arriving back to your place of abode when you leave the province for more than 24hrs. 
Pattaya is being looked at for unlicensed hotels and Guesthouses on a daily and ongoing basis. Apparently there is only 239 licenced hotels and guesthouses out of over a 1000 operating. Some have been closed down already. IMO, It's no surprise they are now asking for owners to appear at Immigration themselves to file the TM30. It's the Law regarding the TM30 needing to be filed so I see no Legally suspect behaviour in what they are doing.

Slightly misleading I think. You do not distinguish between tourists and people living here permantly. I have lived in Pattaya 16 years, always owned my own property and had the same address for 15 of those years (changed it this year for the first time). I have travelled to my home country on many occasions, have been on hundreds of week long holidays around Thailand.....and never filled out any form to tell anybody of my movements?

[chrissables]

11 hours ago, USPatriot said:

I was standing at my landlords computer two times he was unable to log in. I know they do report everyone.

 

I'm sure I'll have to pay a fine

As i understand it it is the landlord/ hotel who has to report where you are staying. If they don't, they get the fine, not you.