Australian Embassy - Proof of income now required for Stat Decs

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Dutch embassy is certifying net income.

That may be the way they do it but it is not immigrations rule.

[Stevemercer]

Thank God it is still gross income. Australians get taxed a flat 33% if a non-resident (no tax-free threshold). I would probably be under the limit if the calculation was based on net income.

[BlackJack]

On 3/5/2017 at 9:48 AM, ubonjoe said:

I find that unusual and I am surprised that immigration accepts them.

Most income letters, declarations,  affidavits and etc are done the a person's home country currency.

Also one has to understand that the stat dec or a notary is declaring that they saw that person sign in front of them. ie I saw this person and their passport and it is a true likeness of them.

 

The notary is not responsible for the content of the documents. Never have been and so we have an issue here.

 

I would suggest that this is not legitimate as the documents you are producing would be copies ie mass printed and  rubber signed by CenterLink?? and should be notorised by the  companies issuing them.

 

Also for the record Commbank when they send out your monthly statements are not going to change their format to suit you, the consulate, embassy or the government.

 

Who dreams this stuff up?

[Evilbaz]

14 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

Also one has to understand that the stat dec or a notary is declaring that they saw that person sign in front of them. ie I saw this person and their passport and it is a true likeness of them.

 

The notary is not responsible for the content of the documents. Never have been and so we have an issue here.

 

I would suggest that this is not legitimate as the documents you are producing would be copies ie mass printed and  rubber signed by CenterLink?? and should be notorised by the  companies issuing them.

 

Also for the record Commbank when they send out your monthly statements are not going to change their format to suit you, the consulate, embassy or the government.

 

Who dreams this stuff up?

 

My Commbank account clearly identifies payments from my Australian Age Pension, Canadian Pension Plan and my Ontario Age Pension.

 

[BlackJack]

9 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

 

My Commbank account clearly identifies payments from my Australian Age Pension, Canadian Pension Plan and my Ontario Age Pension.

 

you miss the point of law

 

that doc can be made by anyone

 

if that doc was to be submitted as evidence then it would need to be notarised by a notary to say it was a true document and the banks arent going to do that to satisfy these requirements

 

 

 

 

[Evilbaz]

11 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

you miss the point of law

 

that doc can be made by anyone

 

if that doc was to be submitted as evidence then it would need to be notarised by a notary to say it was a true document and the banks arent going to do that to satisfy these requirements

 

 

 

 

I recently had a JP in Australia notarize about 12 documents for my OA Visa.

With documents taken from the internet he asked me if the copy was a true record, then stamped it certifying I had stated that, sign the declaration and then he affixed his  official seal and signed the declaration was a true record.

So, my actual experience is at odds with your opinion.

I previously was authorized in Australia to notarize Statutory Declarations.

I see no reason, if it proves necessary, for a proper grade of Embassy Officer to carry out a similar process.

 

[kirkieb]

Where to certify documents

Certified copies are copies authorised or stamped as being true copies of originals, by a person or agency recognised by the laws of the person’s home country. All personal documents such as Birth Certificates, Marriage Certificates, Household Registration Book, Educational Qualifications, etc. must be certified by the relevant local district office as follow

Australian Visa Application Centre: Service Deliver Partner VFS Global.

Or

The Consular Section of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade at the Australian Embassy in Bangkok can witness and authenticate signatures and provide certain other notarial services (fees apply for these services). (NO MENTION OF BEING ABLE TO PROVE AUTHENTICITY TO DOCUMENTS)

PLease note I have only recently done my retirement Visa and Even Though I asked them why they cant authenticate a letter from my Military Pension (Aus Government) If it was sent thru internal channels to them.  Their response was they dont have access to other Australian Government Agencies.

In Australia, copies may be certified by a Justice of the Peace, Commissioner for Declarations, or person before whom a statutory declaration may be made under the Statutory Declarations Act 1959.

Please note: Photocopies of certified copies are NOT acceptable.

Edited March 7, 2017 by kirkieb

[4MyEgo]

On 05/03/2017 at 5:35 PM, mfd101 said:

That's how a statdec works in Oz but the implication of the consulate's notice is that that is no longer sufficient for the Oz Emb here. May be a case of too many under resourced Aussies seeking help at the tax payers' expense?

Might be that the Oz government is looking at getting back a few Xpats from Thailand to spend their pensions back in Oz, hence there being a 2 year remain in Oz stipulation if you are living overseas and wish to apply to get the OAP, yes the 2 year jail term, leave the country during that period and they will cancel your pension, meaning you must stay until the 2 years term is up.

 

Always looking to take back what it can from what it once promised, i.e. work and pay your taxes and we will give you a pension, nothing about you can't take it with you because everybody was milking the government created.

 

Moving the goal posts is the norm these days, have to keep up with the so ever changing a$$holes.

Edited March 7, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[barkly313]

So has anyone in the last few days actually completed a Stat Dec with the supporting docs at Oz embassy Bkk? If so what was your experience?

[BlackJack]

44 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

I recently had a JP in Australia notarize about 12 documents for my OA Visa.

With documents taken from the internet he asked me if the copy was a true record, then stamped it certifying I had stated that, sign the declaration and then he affixed his  official seal and signed the declaration was a true record.

So, my actual experience is at odds with your opinion.

I previously was authorized in Australia to notarize Statutory Declarations.

I see no reason, if it proves necessary, for a proper grade of Embassy Officer to carry out a similar process.

 

OK today I teach you about the Law

a statuary declaration (stat dec) is what the original poster stated was needed

you are talking about notarised documents

not the same

 

a stat dec is filled out and signed at the Embassy in BKK

documents to support that are filed

but these docs could be made by anyone as they are not notarised

 

so the stat dec is signed and the Embassy witnesses this - yes

the docs are submitted as prove but they are not notarised - yes

 

get my point

 

 

[Evilbaz]

6 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

OK today I teach you about the Law

a statuary declaration (stat dec) is what the original poster stated was needed

you are talking about notarised documents

not the same

 

a stat dec is filled out and signed at the Embassy in BKK

documents to support that are filed

but these docs could be made by anyone as they are not notarised

 

so the stat dec is signed and the Embassy witnesses this - yes

the docs are submitted as prove but they are not notarised - yes

 

get my point

 

 

Sure but the person making a Stat Dec signs a Declaration that they are not making a false statement and that they are aware of the penalties for doing so.

That is an integral part of what the Embassy Officer is witnessing.

You could read the Embassy form and see the numbers of occupations, including Embassy/Consular officers of a certain rank, who are authorized to execute the Statutory Declaration.

The standard of proof of truth required differs from evidence for a Court as you seem to refer to.

This is proof to satisfy the Thai Immigration authorities.

 

So let's agree to differ.

[mfd101]

6 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

Sure but the person making a Stat Dec signs a Declaration that they are not making a false statement and that they are aware of the penalties for doing so.

That is an integral part of what the Embassy Officer is witnessing.

You could read the Embassy form and see the numbers of occupations, including Embassy/Consular officers of a certain rank, who are authorized to execute the Statutory Declaration.

The standard of proof of truth required differs from evidence for a Court as you seem to refer to.

This is proof to satisfy the Thai Immigration authorities.

 

So let's agree to differ.

"Proof to satisfy Thai Immi" - ie lots of stamps & signatures everywhere; a few pink ribbons wouldn't go astray; nicely presented in a nice folder; plenty of smiles & wais and your Thai partner laughing at their jokes - always works at Kap Choeng.

 

Satisfying OzEmb: much the same but you will obviously need a copy (or even original) of your monthly or annual (in my case 6-monthly) pension statement, or other bank book with transfers, ATO etc etc etc. I should think the OzEmb would be the least of most people's worries, particularly if you're nicely dressed ? ...

[BlackJack]

23 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

Sure but the person making a Stat Dec signs a Declaration that they are not making a false statement and that they are aware of the penalties for doing so.

That is an integral part of what the Embassy Officer is witnessing.

You could read the Embassy form and see the numbers of occupations, including Embassy/Consular officers of a certain rank, who are authorized to execute the Statutory Declaration.

The standard of proof of truth required differs from evidence for a Court as you seem to refer to.

This is proof to satisfy the Thai Immigration authorities.

 

So let's agree to differ.

I am sorry but you are wrong and I dont agree

 

A stat dec is a stat dec

a notary is a notary

 

Before they asked for a stat dec -

Now they ask for a stat dec with evidence (not court as you infer)

 

The evidence is a piece of paper and has no legal meaning - it is paper and ink.

This evidence derives meaning from being authenticated (notarised) by a trusted legal 3rd party.

If it is not notarised then it is simply paper and ink.

 

I know there are others reading this that understand reading between the lines.

 

 

 

 

 

[david555]

Maybe this can clear up the dispute

..."If you are signing a Statutory Declaration in support of a retirement or other visa, you must provide proof of income such as a bank, Superannuation or Centrelink statement."

 Can be found on this page of Australian Embassy Bangkok
http://thailand.emba...l_Services.html

 

 

[BlackJack]

I am at a loss for words

 

I have unticked "notify me of replies"

 

and I have asked Scotty to beam me up

 

 

[Stevemercer]

Legally BlackJack is correct. Requiring 'proof of income' to be attached to a stat dec that an embassy official witnesses is just an administrative wank. The embassy official is not going to check up to make sure the 'proof' is genuine. The official will just accept your word that it is a copy of some 'proof'. If somebody is going to lie about their income on a stat dec, then it is easy enough to forge a bank statement or similar 'proof'.

 

It's nothing like the notarisation of your Australian marriage certificate required for a marriage extension. This has to be notarised by DoFA as a true record (e.g. they will check with the relevant Registry Office). A translation to Thai then has to be made. Only then will the Thai Embassy/Consular accept and stamp the document.

[NancyL]

On 3/6/2017 at 8:20 AM, bdenner said:

Only hope that in my case they have a CPA on the consular staff who understands my tax return (I can barely make head nor tale of it) and they understand that the days of paper bank statements are long gone. Being a Thai witnessing the Stat Dec wouldn't surprise me if she doesn't ask for my Aussie Bank Book!! 5555555

 

Looks like I'll have to take my NoteBook PC with me next year.

 

The gods of bureaucracy and hoops are alive and well.

Better print out statement from that Netbook.  They don't want "electronic devices" inside the consluate;  

 

[bangkokorbust]

If someone wanted to create an income from a house rental then just download a lease agreement fill it out and copy and attach.

Anyone wants to continue the charade won't be deterred

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

[bangkokorbust]

The proof of whatever income(not the pension) will be on oz dollars. How is it converted to thai baht? Does the person filling out the stat dec calculate the exchange rate or does the embassy staff do this?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

[ripstanley]

2 hours ago, bangkokorbust said:

The proof of whatever income(not the pension) will be on oz dollars. How is it converted to thai baht? Does the person filling out the stat dec calculate the exchange rate or does the embassy staff do this?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
 

Thai Immigration convert the Au$ to Thai baht when you present the Stat Dec when  applying for your extension. 

[bangkokorbust]

Thai Immigration convert the Au$ to Thai baht when you present the Stat Dec when  applying for your extension. 

Good to know

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

[Evilbaz]

On 3/7/2017 at 2:17 PM, david555 said:

Maybe this can clear up the dispute

..."If you are signing a Statutory Declaration in support of a retirement or other visa, you must provide proof of income such as a bank, Superannuation or Centrelink statement."

 Can be found on this page of Australian Embassy Bangkok
http://thailand.emba...l_Services.html

 

 

I can confirm that the new Official  Australian Consulate in Phuket have confirmed that they follow the protocol of the Embassy as listed above.

[pcliff069]

The onus on signing a Stat Dec is on the person signing the declaration and not the witness. I do not believe the embassy has any right to ask for this information and there is a fair chance that by asking you to provide this they may be in breach of Privacy laws.

[Evilbaz]

2 minutes ago, pcliff069 said:

The onus on signing a Stat Dec is on the person signing the declaration and not the witness. I do not believe the embassy has any right to ask for this information and there is a fair chance that by asking you to provide this they may be in breach of Privacy laws.

 

By your criteria so does your Immi office.

Chok dee getting your extension.

[pcliff069]

 

By your criteria so does your Immi office.

Chok dee getting your extension.

I always have proof of income when I sign a stat dec so not really needing any luck. And has fa to do with Aust. Immigration.

[Evilbaz]

2 minutes ago, pcliff069 said:

I always have proof of income when I sign a stat dec so not really needing any luck. And has fa to do with Aust. Immigration.

So do I - for both the Embassy/Consulate, and Phuket Immi.

 

It's really quite simple - don't lie.

[pcliff069]

So do I - for both the Embassy/Consulate, and Phuket Immi.
 
It's really quite simple - don't lie.

Could not agree with you more.

[Ozfatboy]

On ‎7‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 11:24 AM, BlackJack said:

Also one has to understand that the stat dec or a notary is declaring that they saw that person sign in front of them. ie I saw this person and their passport and it is a true likeness of them.

 

The notary is not responsible for the content of the documents. Never have been and so we have an issue here.

 

I would suggest that this is not legitimate as the documents you are producing would be copies ie mass printed and  rubber signed by CenterLink?? and should be notorised by the  companies issuing them.

 

Also for the record Commbank when they send out your monthly statements are not going to change their format to suit you, the consulate, embassy or the government.

 

Who dreams this stuff up?

BlackJack is correct, this information below is from The Attorney Generals Department in relation to the witnessing of declarations.

 

A witness to a statutory declaration should;

• check the identity of the person making the statutory declaration
• check to the extent possible, that the person is competent to make the statutory declaration
• remind the person that he or she will be claiming that the statements in the declaration (and any attachments) are true and that there are penalties for making false statements
• check that the form does not contain any blanks.

Proof of identity: With the prevalence of identity fraud, it would be a good practice to request identification before witnessing documents, though this is not a legal requirement. This would not be required when certifying true copies.
 
Risk: It is not your role to test or be satisfied that the content of an affidavit or statutory declaration is true and correct. Nor is it necessary for the person making the affidavit or statutory declaration to prove the truthfulness of the statements made. 
 
Your role is to administer the oath/affirmation according to law with the assistance of these guidelines.  If a false statement is made in an affidavit or statutory declaration, the responsibility lies with the deponent (or declarant), not with the authorised witness.

 

Also, I am not sure how a Consular Assistant can determine what is income.Apart from the straight forward people receiving superannuation and pension payments there are numerous people that are self employed using these declarations for extensions of stay based on Marriage which receive income directly into their bank accounts. Will they have a clear understanding of any documents provided.

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Ozfatboy

[barkly313]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 0:40 PM, barkly313 said:

So has anyone in the last few days actually completed a Stat Dec with the supporting docs at Oz embassy Bkk? If so what was your experience?

Just asking again  as above...any new Stat Dec forms or changes at the consulate when submitting this?

[ripstanley]

I will be going on the 7th April in Chiang Mai. If no one has posted before then I will report.