Britons should keep EU rights post-Brexit - Guy Verhofstadt

[webfact]

Britons should keep EU rights post-Brexit - Guy Verhofstadt

 

British citizens should be allowed to keep the benefits of EU membership, according to the chief Brexit negotiator at the European Parliament.

 

Guy Verhofstadt said a system is needed for individuals to keep rights, such as freedom to travel and voting in European elections.

 

The former prime minister of Belgium said Brexit had been a "tragedy" for people in the UK and EU.

 

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39228245

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2017-03-10

[pitrevie]

I am sure that those who now have their country back free from the unelected dictatorship of Brussels will not want to avail themselves of any such offer. 

[CharlieK]

The beginning of the end! There is only one way the EU can survive and that is to keep the UK in the EU. There is no way they can continue without the contributions the UK makes into the EU coffers. You cannot have a two speed EU, where the southern states are left behind by the stronger EU countries as is happening.

 

Will there be an EU at the end of 2017?  

[Kasset Tak]

As UK don't want to be a part of EU and want to restrict traveling for EU citizens to UK then why should EU have open arms for UK citizens traveling to/in EU?!

[pitrevie]

15 hours ago, CharlieK said:

The beginning of the end! There is only one way the EU can survive and that is to keep the UK in the EU. There is no way they can continue without the contributions the UK makes into the EU coffers. You cannot have a two speed EU, where the southern states are left behind by the stronger EU countries as is happening.

 

Will there be an EU at the end of 2017?  

The EU was there before the UK joined and now that the one country that spent the last 40 years whinging, complaining and demanding special deals is leaving I should imagine that they are going to be there long after the door has slammed behind us. 

The European Parliament will no longer have to put up with Farage droning on and on and his presence will not be missed in the one committee he was appointed to given that he attended just once out of a possible 42 times.

I think Kenneth Clarke got it just right when he said words to the effect that he wished his country well even though he thought it was a very bad decision and that he feared for the future a position I endorse wholeheartedly.

i also wish the EU well in the future as I do not see it in the U.Ks interest that it should fall apart as many on the Brexit side wish for. 

[gamini]

19 hours ago, pitrevie said:

I am sure that those who now have their country back free from the unelected dictatorship of Brussels will not want to avail themselves of any such offer. 

I certainly would like to avail myself of this offer. I highly value of my EU membership and privileges. I couldn't care less what happens in the UK I have no interest ever going back there. Thailand is now my country and if I ever did retire elsewhere it would be to somewhere in Europe.

[thaiturkey]

5 hours ago, pitrevie said:

The EU was there before the UK joined and now that the one country that spent the last 40 years whinging, complaining and demanding special deals is leaving I should imagine that they are going to be there long after the door has slammed behind us. 

The European Parliament will no longer have to put up with Farage droning on and on and his presence will not be missed in the one committee he was appointed to given that he attended just once out of a possible 42 times.

I think Kenneth Clarke got it just right when he said words to the effect that he wished his country well even though he thought it was a very bad decision and that he feared for the future a position I endorse wholeheartedly.

i also wish the EU well in the future as I do not see it in the U.Ks interest that it should fall apart as many on the Brexit side wish for. 

WRONG......THE UK JOINED THE COMMON MARKET....a trading block.

This has since morphed (or attempted to) into a Federal Europe which few people really want, bringing with it massive restrictions on national governments, and huge increases in costs, and mindless bureaucracy. Then there is the Euro fiasco, which only benefits Germany; this crisis alone is enough to destroy the EU. Finally uncontrolled immigration, including a lot of barbaric future terrorsists.

The EU was doomed long before Brexit, Brexit will merely hasten the process!

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Pitrevie said:

 

"The EU was there before the UK joined and now that the one country that spent the last 40 years whinging, complaining and demanding special deals is leaving I should imagine that they are going to be there long after the door has slammed behind us."

 

The 40 years that the UK spent "whinging, complaining and demanding" were well justified and once the electors were eventually allowed to have their say, they voted to leave the E.U.   Suddenly, the EU realise they have to make some changes (two-speed etc) so as not to lose any more members, which is perhaps a recognition that they should have listened to the UK before.

[Grouse]

Guy Verhofstadt is showing great generosity of spirit and does not deserve such mean minded, ill informed responses from TV contributors.

 

We are leaving the EU, now get on with it quit all the negativity

 

 

[the guest]

Sorry, Brexit means Brexit! 

[fvw53]

7 hours ago, pitrevie said:

The EU was there before the UK joined and now that the one country that spent the last 40 years whinging, complaining and demanding special deals is leaving I should imagine that they are going to be there long after the door has slammed behind us. 

The European Parliament will no longer have to put up with Farage droning on and on and his presence will not be missed in the one committee he was appointed to given that he attended just once out of a possible 42 times.

I think Kenneth Clarke got it just right when he said words to the effect that he wished his country well even though he thought it was a very bad decision and that he feared for the future a position I endorse wholeheartedly.

i also wish the EU well in the future as I do not see it in the U.Ks interest that it should fall apart as many on the Brexit side wish for. 

Well written 

The EU is now suffering from too many years prospering in peace and serious reforms are needed...but we should not forget that the initial idea was to assure peace and prosperity through a profound reconciliation between (West) Germany and France and let others join in the project. 

[pitrevie]

2 hours ago, thaiturkey said:

WRONG......THE UK JOINED THE COMMON MARKET....a trading block.

This has since morphed (or attempted to) into a Federal Europe which few people really want, bringing with it massive restrictions on national governments, and huge increases in costs, and mindless bureaucracy. Then there is the Euro fiasco, which only benefits Germany; this crisis alone is enough to destroy the EU. Finally uncontrolled immigration, including a lot of barbaric future terrorsists.

The EU was doomed long before Brexit, Brexit will merely hasten the process!

The Community's initial aim was to bring about economic integration, including a common market and customs union, that was in the original intent. Do explain what it is about economic integration you don't understand?

[Baerboxer]

52 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Guy Verhofstadt is showing great generosity of spirit and does not deserve such mean minded, ill informed responses from TV contributors.

 

We are leaving the EU, now get on with it quit all the negativity

 

 

 

I don't know about his generosity of spirit but he showing some sympathy to the 48% who voted to remain, plus all the ones who either couldn't vote, were unable or didn't bother but actually want to remain. He also probably realizes the lies that were and continue to be told.

Mr. Juncker says he hopes the UK will re-join (not left yet of course).

 

The next General Election could well be fought with one or more parties advocating re-joining as part of their manifesto. And that would entail adopting the Euro, Schengen, and of course moving ever closer in integration - how ironic of the Tories achieved that!

[dunroaming]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 8:29 AM, CharlieK said:

The beginning of the end! There is only one way the EU can survive and that is to keep the UK in the EU. There is no way they can continue without the contributions the UK makes into the EU coffers. You cannot have a two speed EU, where the southern states are left behind by the stronger EU countries as is happening.

 

Will there be an EU at the end of 2017?  

And that is the rub!  Will the EU collapse before the Brexit divorce is finalised.  That will be determined by the European elections coming up to a great extent.  I think most of the referendum voters hope that the EU will fall and will have to be re-born as a proper trading partnership suitable for todays climate.  I know that is my hope after my disappointment of us not remaining to force change from within.

 

However if the EU does survive the next few months and the other countries rally around Brussels then we need to make sure we do not burn our bridges.  Negotiations are still crucial at this stage.

[pitrevie]

1 hour ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Pitrevie said:

 

"The EU was there before the UK joined and now that the one country that spent the last 40 years whinging, complaining and demanding special deals is leaving I should imagine that they are going to be there long after the door has slammed behind us."

 

The 40 years that the UK spent "whinging, complaining and demanding" were well justified and once the electors were eventually allowed to have their say, they voted to leave the E.U.   Suddenly, the EU realise they have to make some changes (two-speed etc) so as not to lose any more members, which is perhaps a recognition that they should have listened to the UK before.

The only major politician who committed his party to a withdrawal from the EU was Michael Foot and he siuffered once of the biggest electoral defeats since the war.  William Hague who put keeping the pound at the centre of his general election campaign also went down to a massive electoral defeat. I think any fair observer would agree that had this referendum been held during the period up until the financial crisis of 2008 then the vote would have been in favour of remaining in the EU. The reason it was held in 2016 was more about Cameron trying to castrate his own right wing malcontents.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, the guest said:

Sorry, Brexit means Brexit! 

Such intellectual rigour! I rest my case. No further questions....

[Thaidream]

I think the citizens of the UK are probably as upset about the direction of their country as we Americans are as upset about what is happening in America.  To me, as an outsider looking in, Brexit is a fact and everyone who supports the UK would want to see a negotiated exit that preserved the best deal for the UK.

 

To me, unfettered Immigration into the UK such as what has happened in Germany and other countries simply cannot work in Europe. The land space is much smaller than America and there are huge cultural differences to overcome

.

I can't ever imagine a British Government coming to power that would reapply to be in the EU and also give up the Pound  and adopt the Euro but then I couldn't ever imagine Trump as President of the US.

 

I think a good indicator of where the EU is going will be the French election and the German elections. If Marine Le Penn is elected in france and a rightist in Germany- the EU is finished.

[3NUMBAS]

Sneaky bid to derail brexit from Eurocrats about to lose their cushy jobs and overfat pensions..The gestapo would have tried the same trick

[pitrevie]

41 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

Sneaky bid to derail brexit from Eurocrats about to lose their cushy jobs and overfat pensions..The gestapo would have tried the same trick

I gather history was not your strong subject when you were in school. 

[7by7]

On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 8:29 AM, pitrevie said:

I am sure that those who now have their country back free from the unelected dictatorship of Brussels will not want to avail themselves of any such offer. 

 I'm sure the approx. 1.5 million Brits currently working or retired in other EU countries would like to have their futures secured and not be forced to give up their jobs and homes post Brexit.

 

I'm sure that the millions of Brits who holiday in other EU countries each year would like to continue to be able to do so without the hassle of obtaining visas first. Especially those who, like my wife and I recently, decide on a whim to pop over to Paris for the weekend.

 

BTW, the EU is not an 'unelected dictatorship.' All EU laws are made by elected representatives in the European Parliament or by representatives of each member's elected government in the Council.

[Allstars]

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I'm sure the approx. 1.5 million Brits currently working or retired in other EU countries would like to have their futures secured and not be forced to give up their jobs and homes post Brexit.

 

I'm sure that the millions of Brits who holiday in other EU countries each year would like to continue to be able to do so without the hassle of obtaining visas first. Especially those who, like my wife and I recently, decide on a whim to pop over to Paris for the weekend.

 

BTW, the EU is not an 'unelected dictatorship.' All EU laws are made by elected representatives in the European Parliament or by representatives of each member's elected government in the Council.

All those Brexiteers should have taken this in consideration before they voted, as you can't eat from two walls all the time.

 

I hope Verhofstadt's suggestion will be forgotten about.

 

They have a special word for it in Thailand, it sounds like Som nam naa

Edited March 11, 2017 by Allstars

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

To me, unfettered Immigration into the UK such as what has happened in Germany and other countries simply cannot work in Europe. The land space is much smaller than America and there are huge cultural differences to overcome

The UK is not part of the Schengen area, and so has complete control over it's borders when it comes to non EEA nationals. Even EEA nationals have to meet certain requirements, i.e. be exercising an economic treaty right,  before they can live in the UK, and, of course, vice versa.

 

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

I can't ever imagine a British Government coming to power that would reapply to be in the EU

As the leaders of both major parties were pro leave in the referendum, I disagree.

 

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

and also give up the Pound  and adopt the Euro

Even had we remained in the EU we would have kept Sterling and not adopted the Euro. A position accepted by the other 27 and enshrined in the Maastricht Treaty.

 

Denmark has a similar opt out agreement.

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I'm sure the approx. 1.5 million Brits currently working or retired in other EU countries would like to have their futures secured and not be forced to give up their jobs and homes post Brexit.

 

I'm sure that the millions of Brits who holiday in other EU countries each year would like to continue to be able to do so without the hassle of obtaining visas first. Especially those who, like my wife and I recently, decide on a whim to pop over to Paris for the weekend.

 

BTW, the EU is not an 'unelected dictatorship.' All EU laws are made by elected representatives in the European Parliament or by representatives of each member's elected government in the Council.

Paris for the weekend!

 

You romantic! ?

[Thaidream]

Thanks for the clarification- a very interesting topic not only for British citizens but for everyone.

[pitrevie]

9 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I'm sure the approx. 1.5 million Brits currently working or retired in other EU countries would like to have their futures secured and not be forced to give up their jobs and homes post Brexit.

 

I'm sure that the millions of Brits who holiday in other EU countries each year would like to continue to be able to do so without the hassle of obtaining visas first. Especially those who, like my wife and I recently, decide on a whim to pop over to Paris for the weekend.

 

BTW, the EU is not an 'unelected dictatorship.' All EU laws are made by elected representatives in the European Parliament or by representatives of each member's elected government in the Council.

Sorry but the bit about the unelected dictatorship was meant for the benifit of Brexiters who seem to include it in almost every other post as an article of faith. The latest reference I picked up was about the gestapo so I will probably include that in future posts.

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, Allstars said:

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I'm sure the approx. 1.5 million Brits currently working or retired in other EU countries would like to have their futures secured and not be forced to give up their jobs and homes post Brexit.

 

I'm sure that the millions of Brits who holiday in other EU countries each year would like to continue to be able to do so without the hassle of obtaining visas first. Especially those who, like my wife and I recently, decide on a whim to pop over to Paris for the weekend.

 

BTW, the EU is not an 'unelected dictatorship.' All EU laws are made by elected representatives in the European Parliament or by representatives of each member's elected government in the Council.

All those Brexiteers should have taken this in consideration before they voted, as you can't eat from two walls all the time.

 

I hope Verhofstadt's suggestion will be forgotten about.

 

They have a special word for it in Thailand, it sounds like Som nam naa

 I suspect that most Brits living in Europe probably voted to Remain.

 

As for those UK residents who voted leave and will in future complain about the difficulties of arranging a continental holiday, if any, then I agree.

 

But why do you not want the rights of British citizens currently living in other EU states protected post Brexit?

[the guest]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I suspect that most Brits living in Europe probably voted to Remain.

 

As for those UK residents who voted leave and will in future complain about the difficulties of arranging a continental holiday, if any, then I agree.

 

But why do you not want the rights of British citizens currently living in other EU states protected post Brexit?

Nothing stopping them applying for residency, then after 5 years nationality (in most cases) will be given

[Allstars]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

But why do you not want the rights of British citizens currently living in other EU states protected post Brexit?

 

Because as I understand it it was a right they gained when they joined the EU, so why it should be protected post Brexit.

 

You can't have one rule for some and another rule for others.

 

And The Guest already posted the solution.

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, the guest said:

Nothing stopping them applying for residency, then after 5 years nationality (in most cases) will be given

Not quite.

 

After living in and exercising a treaty right in their host state continuously for 5 years an EEA national automatically gains permanent residency in that state; they do not have to apply for it. But it is advisable that they do apply for a permanent residency card so they can confirm their status when and if required.

 

At present neither the UK nor the EU have confirmed what the status of permanent residents will be post Brexit. Each side seems to be waiting for the other to confirm their position first.

 

Nationality laws are a matter for each member state, and vary from state to state.

 

For example, an EEA national living in the UK needs to have held PR, which as said takes at least 5 years to get, for at least 1 year before they could apply for naturalisation as British; so that means at least 6 years residency.

 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

7 hours ago, gamini said:

I certainly would like to avail myself of this offer. I highly value of my EU membership and privileges. I couldn't care less what happens in the UK I have no interest ever going back there. Thailand is now my country and if I ever did retire elsewhere it would be to somewhere in Europe.

 

Thailand is not your country and never will be.