More proof of Army contempt for justice

[webfact]

TODAY'S EDITORIAL

More proof of Army contempt for justice

By The Nation

 

The killing of Chaiyapoom Pasae is fraught with confusion, and yet the military has drawn its own verdict

 

BANGKOK: -- Third Army Region Commander Lt-General Wijak Banpasop is typical of high-ranking military officers in appearing less capable of managing his public pronouncements than he is of commanding troops. He set out last week to conduct damage control on the internationally condemned Army killing of Lahu activist Chaiyapoom Pasae, only to have the attempt backfire on him and the ruling junta.

 

Wijak was the latest in a stream of military and junta representatives seeking to defend the soldier who pulled the trigger on Chaiyapoom at a checkpoint in Chiang Mai’s Chiang Dao district on March 17. They disregard the need for reticence while investigations are pending – including one by the National Human Rights Commission. Both Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha and his deputy, Prawit Wongsuwan, have tried to convince the public that the soldier who gunned down the young man acted in self-defence when “threatened” with a hand grenade. 

 

In spite of their version of events being in dispute, the generals insist Chaiyapoom was a drug dealer resisting arrest and seeking to hurt the troops when he was shot dead. The Third Army commander claims to possess closed-circuit surveillance video from the scene showing Chaiyapoom refusing to cooperate with soldiers, but he could not produce it when rights activists asked, saying it’s been forwarded to Army chief General Chalermchai Sittisart. That alleged video evidence is now the subject of an online petition at Change.org.

 

Wijak pronounced verdict on the affair. “I personally think the soldier involved did not use excessive force. He just fired one shot at an arm, but the bullet happened to be fatal.” Later he added, “If I were the soldier at the scene, I might have fired [the M-16 assault rifle] in automatic mode.” The general seemed to imply that the soldier erred in firing only one shot since the target might have escaped, whereas a spray of automatic fire would have negated that risk. 

 

No one in the Army has come forward to suggest Chaiyapoom might have been unjustly shot. Instead the top brass has sought only to shield their soldiers from criticism. In doing so they are, unwittingly or not, offering further evidence that a culture of impunity exists in the military. We are being told once again that armed men in the uniform of the state can kill anyone if they deem it necessary.

 

Nor does the Army intend to conduct its own probe to discover who was in charge at the scene and why precisely a soldier opened fire. In fact Wijak said he had instructed the unit running the checkpoint to keep up the morale of the soldier who pulled the trigger. “In my eyes he just carried out his duty. If he is deemed a villain, probably no soldiers will have the courage to take action in the future.”

 

According to a long-time friend of Chaiyapoom and others who have come to his defence, he was no drug dealer, and in fact spoke out against the use of illegal drugs. Police counter that he had long been involved with a narcotics syndicate and – citing the military – say a hand grenade was found on his body and a knife and 2,800 amphetamine tablets in the car in which he was riding. Unusually, the police had none of this to put on public display. People who rushed to the scene on hearing about the shooting saw no sign of pills or weapons. An eyewitness account of Chaiyapoom allegedly being pulled from the car and beaten by soldiers has been brushed aside.

 

With so many doubts surrounding the incident, the Army should be treading far more carefully in mounting its own defence. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/opinion/today_editorial/30310483

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-03-28

[rodknock]

dog and pony show.

it will all go away!

nothing will happen!

[fasteddie]

The Thai army has a long history of killing innocents, TiT!

[z42]

The RTA certainly APPEARS to be little more than a criminal organization. It has its godfathers at the top, a huge number of foot soldiers, and seemingly a whole array of involvements in undesirable activities / rackets.

Also the culture of impunity draws parralels with a mafia where those with just grievances are silenced and justice is almost nevr served on their organization or members.

A disgrace ?

[colinneil]

Yes and this crowd are supposedly running the country.

What chance has anyone opposing them got of getting justice?

 

[Thailand]

Just about the only engagements the military have had in recent years have been against their own people.

Make of that what you will.

[yellowboat]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Both Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha and his deputy, Prawit Wongsuwan, have tried to convince the public that the soldier who gunned down the young man acted in self-defence when “threatened” with a hand grenade.

1.  They should stay out of it, and call for an investigation, nothing more

 

2. They are always so quick to come to the aid of wealthy and the government, looking hugely biased. 

 

Thier actions are just sickening and set a terrible example for Thailand.

[darksidedog]

This government has never apologised for anything that it has done wrong, or even admitted any wrongdoing, ever, so why does anyone expect them to start now?

[smutcakes]

The army could not care less about the judiciary. Putting aside the fact that the judiciary and many of the 'independent' agencies cheered on the coup, they would simply never bother even trying to investigate the army or its personnel with any vigor, unless the army was allowing someone to be thrown under the bus.

 

Quite simply the judiciary or independent agencies are irrelevant to the army, they either can control them to do their bidding, the agencies don't even bother investigating, or the army would simply straight up ignore anything they said.

[williamgeorgeallen]

anyone with weapons experience would have to either laugh or shake their head at this load of rubbish. every soldier is trained to shoot center of mass to give the best chance of a hit. automatic fire is only good for multiple targets at extreme close range, all it really achieves is emptying magazines quickly. the army rep needs some trigger time before releasing silly statements on behalf of the army.

[robblok]

22 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

The army could not care less about the judiciary. Putting aside the fact that the judiciary and many of the 'independent' agencies cheered on the coup, they would simply never bother even trying to investigate the army or its personnel with any vigor, unless the army was allowing someone to be thrown under the bus.

 

Quite simply the judiciary or independent agencies are irrelevant to the army, they either can control them to do their bidding, the agencies don't even bother investigating, or the army would simply straight up ignore anything they said.

The army is indeed the best example of this culture of impunity, but the police and government come a close second. This wont change because that means that those in power will be accountable and lose privileges. i don't see that happening.  

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

And beneath the surface the anger and hatred continue to grow. They have angered so many people from all sides, that they are getting to a point where sworn enemies view them as a greater enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

When you build a house on shaky foundations and the walls start to crack, it doesn't help to cover the cracks with wall filler. The only way to fix it is to break down the house and rebuild it the correct way.

[robblok]

And beneath the surface the anger and hatred continue to grow. They have angered so many people from all sides, that they are getting to a point where sworn enemies view them as a greater enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
 
When you build a house on shaky foundations and the walls start to crack, it doesn't help to cover the cracks with wall filler. The only way to fix it is to break down the house and rebuild it the correct way.

It wont happen those in power... police.. army... government (ptp democrats) have too much to lose. If a new party emerges it will probably also wants the privileges from those it replaces. Its so ingrained here.

[jollyhangmon]

Yes indeed, 'monkey-business' is a perfect fit and just what you'd expect from - wait for it - monkeys, of course.

 

Question: should a bunch of inept civil-failures be fit up with that kind, well, any kind of weapons ...?!

(again just a rhetorical question)

 

However, one thing is for sure, yes, these are the stories which pave way to insurgency, unsurprisingly ... 

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by jollyhangmon

[muzmurray]

1 hour ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

anyone with weapons experience would have to either laugh or shake their head at this load of rubbish. every soldier is trained to shoot center of mass to give the best chance of a hit. automatic fire is only good for multiple targets at extreme close range, all it really achieves is emptying magazines quickly. the army rep needs some trigger time before releasing silly statements on behalf of the army.

 

Really? I thought automatic fire was good for laying down suppressive fire too, you know, in the 6 section battle drills where it says " winning the firefight" - which means laying down enough suppressive fire that the enemy can not attack you.

[maewang99]

WHO you are.... not WHAT you know...

just a different way of doing stuff....  the USA under Trump wants to go the same way I think...

and this doesn't just apply to the Army... or police.. they have their own superiors such as the "snow snow snow wof wof wof" story in today's Bangkok Post about the Wasn't Drunk or Driving Badly When I Hit A Cop mega mega mega billionaire family.

if they really were superior... i.e. Donald J. Trump... it wouldn't only be half as bad as it is... but already quite bad. only some of our superiors are at all superior...  but those are all folks who got where they are by WHAT they know.... not WHO they are... Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg... who I will remind you are all avid book readers... 2 of them college dropouts.. (those are WHAT you knows... which are in rather short supply in SE Asia unless they are brought from outside).  so when all you have is WHO ya knows.... WHO ya knows rule.

      

Edited March 28, 2017 by maewang99

[alant]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

The army is indeed the best example of this culture of impunity, but the police and government come a close second. This wont change because that means that those in power will be accountable and lose privileges. i don't see that happening.  

And the US, EU, China and many others for supporting them  and turning a blind eye??? 

[chainarong]

The roosters are coming home to roost, typical military Junta of Christmas past , nothing the People of Thailand can be proud of, with the likes of Pawtwit and co running the lunatic asylum it is no wonder International institutions are looking side ways at Thailand, slowly but surely Thailand will become a basket case, many gave their lives and indeed lots became damaged goods so that Thai's could enjoy their life, without soldiers doing just what they like.......................................  

[chainarong]

52 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

And beneath the surface the anger and hatred continue to grow. They have angered so many people from all sides, that they are getting to a point where sworn enemies view them as a greater enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

When you build a house on shaky foundations and the walls start to crack, it doesn't help to cover the cracks with wall filler. The only way to fix it is to break down the house and rebuild it the correct way.

Thailand had its opportunity in 92 to shove the military where it belongs , they negotiated to save face, so Generals stayed in charge of departments , bad move, catch 22 now reins , if you put the civilian government back under Thai democracy, same , same , same , if U leave a Junta in Charge , same , same, same as back in the eighties. 

[MrJohnson]

In recent Thai history going back to the 1930's the RTA has always been in control. All the rest is just window dressing. The massacre at Thammasat University in 1976 has probably been the most publicized and perhaps the worst but there are plenty of other examples of the RTA using heavy handed tactics to remain in control and stifle any opposition. The work of the Border Rangers in the north and north-east comes to mind.The investigation into this most recent incident will be a whitewash. No doubt about that.

[TheFishman1]

Big cover up in that village two young boys killed by army TIT

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 hour ago, muzmurray said:

 

Really? I thought automatic fire was good for laying down suppressive fire too, you know, in the 6 section battle drills where it says " winning the firefight" - which means laying down enough suppressive fire that the enemy can not attack you.

this was a soldier dealing with one civilian with a rifle. did you read the story or just my comment? suppressing fire is better left for machine guns, thats what they are made for.

Edited March 28, 2017 by williamgeorgeallen

[Wilsonandson]

Two years ago Prime Minister Prayuth said this:-

 

Speaking at a military academy in Bangkok, Prayuth defended the measures introduced to replace martial law, saying they had been misunderstood by foreign media. He went on to issue a stern warning to critics of the armed forces or the state.

"If anyone says anything that causes damage to the Royal Thai Army or to the country I will not stand for it," Prayuth said. "I am not scared."

 

Just so you all know. If I was posting from Thailand I'd be careful what I posted you just don't know whose reading especially now Thaivisa is with the Nation newspaper. Imagine if in a week your opinion is posted in the Nation and some Patriotic type takes offence.

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

It wont happen those in power... police.. army... government (ptp democrats) have too much to lose. If a new party emerges it will probably also wants the privileges from those it replaces. Its so ingrained here.

It will happen. It always happens. Look at Thai history. It is a circle that keeps repeating. Centralised military rule --> Poor governance --> Protest --> Military crackdown --> Civilian deaths --> Retreat to barracks --> Military - appointed technocrat government --> New constitution --> Elections --> Civilian rule --> Military-nexus' snout pushed out of the trough --> Coup --> back to the beginning

 

The anti-junta side need an opportunity to galvanise a mass movement. So far the junta has kept a lid on everything. That was why they were so nervy about Dhammakaya. Unlike sub-Saharan Africa, there is a limit on how many countrymen the military are prepared to massacre in any given administration.

[klauskunkel]

Quote

More proof of Army contempt for justice

The army does not have contempt for justice. Justice is working for the army.

[chuang]

The army and police are never in the wrong be it killings or corruptions etc.....cause they are in power...

[tomacht8]

In fact Wijak said he had instructed the unit running the checkpoint to keep up the morale of the soldier who pulled the trigger. “In my eyes he just carried out his duty. If he is deemed a villain, probably no soldiers will have the courage to take action in the future.”

This is one side of the medal.

But what also can not be allowed is that people are shot here, without neutral investigation and punishment. Mistakes happen at control points with armed staff, not just in Thailand, but around the world. Much more important here is the unreserved, true clarification.

If CCTV recordings are available which relieve the shooter, why are they not shown to the public?  Otherwise the description of the incident becomes unbelievable.

[muzmurray]

1 hour ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

this was a soldier dealing with one civilian with a rifle. did you read the story or just my comment? suppressing fire is better left for machine guns, thats what they are made for.

 

Only one MG per section, therefore the rest of the section use their assault rifles to lay down suppressive fire.

 

Yes, I read both the story and your comment, and that is why I addressed the fact that you said;

2 hours ago, muzmurray said:

automatic fire is only good for multiple targets at extreme close range,

This is incorrect, there are many, many uses and applications of automatic fire. 

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

Only one MG per section, therefore the rest of the section use their assault rifles to lay down suppressive fire.

 

Yes, I read both the story and your comment, and that is why I addressed the fact that you said;

This is incorrect, there are many, many uses and applications of automatic fire. 

suppressing fire with rifles on semi auto? as riflemen in the army we never used full auto for suppressing fire, be interesting to hear what army would want their riflemen blowing through all their ammo in a couple minutes.  LWS or machineguns are used for suppressing fire not rifles like the  one this guy had.

what application would a rifleman have for using his rife on full auto. can you give me an example?

[muzmurray]

15 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

suppressing fire with rifles on semi auto? as riflemen in the army we never used full auto for suppressing fire, be interesting to hear what army would want their riflemen blowing through all their ammo in a couple minutes.  LWS or machineguns are used for suppressing fire not rifles like the  one this guy had.

what application would a rifleman have for using his rife on full auto. can you give me an example?

 

Dennis Rhode, Firearm owner/CCW etc

Written Aug 1, 2016

 

 

First and foremost, I’ve worked in IC (security contracting) and have family/friends in the SOF community BUT HOWEVER….
FOR EVERYONE THAT HAS “SPECIAL OPS VET” ETC ETC IN THEIR EXPERTISE SECTION. I’M NOT A VET. I’VE WORKED WITH FIREARMS AND SPEAK FREQUENTLY WITH RETIRED AND ACTIVE MEMBERS OF THE US SOF COMMUNITY.

THIS VIDEO ENDS THE ARGUMENTS——IT’S ONE OF DOZENS I’VE FOUND ON THIS TOPIC.

 

When an SAS/SBS element liaising alongside a Marine det, and one stands up using full auto (and not for suppression as they are taking IDA—aka mortars etc, mainly) at some Taliban in a treeline nearby.

THEN Y OU ALSO SEE SOMETHING UNIQUE THAT PUTS THIS ALL TO BED BETWEEN US GUN GEEKS—

There is a Marine that if you listen closely, uses some kind of SAM-R or M110/SR-25 type rifle in FA as well (the DM fires his SR-25-type rifle in full auto and fires a full mag, with his suppressor smoking from it)

This settles it…Everyone that HASN’T become military SMEs because they were 11Bs at Benning or a Marine in Pendleton training alongside me when I was a Devil Pup (inside joke) that says “full auto is only FROM HOLLYWOOD MOVIES! Our guys don’t use that EVER! LOL!!!!”…well, if you wanna say anyone using FA on a weapon that THE MANUFACTURER INTENTIONALLY PLACED THE FA FEATURE ON MANY OF THE MILITARY/LE AR PLATFORMS is full of crap when they say they know SOF who have used it (meaning the VERY well-trained SMU types use this feature, just read about Don Hollenbaugh when he singlehandedly used FA on his weapon to fend off hundreds of ACM in Falluja) then maybe rethink your whole view of reality….There are PLENTY of instances, recent AND old (Vietnam etc), where FA was and is used…by the bad guys and our most highly trained US SOF…The first SAS and Delta Squadrons were TAUGHT to use it in most circumstances when it wasn’t going to be too dangerous (i.e HR, unless they were using Mp5s etc, which they STILL use the feature even during hostage rescue).

This should end the argument about full auto and assault rifles

 

This is the video he refers to;