Thai Army under fire over death of conscript

[webfact]

Army under fire over death of conscript
By PRATCH RUJIVANAROM
THE NATION

 

 

Spokesman blames soldiers’ poor health, leaders’ inability to control emotions for string of fatalities

 

BANGKOK: -- HUMAN RIGHTS campaigners condemned the fatal torture of a conscript at a military base in Surat Thani on Saturday, while the Army admitted some commanders became too angry when punishing subordinates.

 

Pictures of conscript Private Yuthinan Boonniam, who was hospitalised with a swollen face and bruises, were widely shared on social media on Saturday, as this year’s annual military draft proceeded.

 

Angkhana Neelapaijit, commissioner of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), pointed out that this was not the first case of torture resulting in death at a military training camp, while urging the Army to stop using harsh punishment and respect draftees’ human rights.

 

Offering her condolences to the victim’s family, she said: “As it is a duty for Thai men to serve as conscripts to serve their country, the Army also has a duty to take good care of them and respect their human rights.

 

“The death of Private Yuthinan was a tragic one and can be considered as a human rights violation. The NHRC will discuss how to deal with the case on Tuesday.”

 

She said torture and harsh punishment in military camps were nothing new, as the NHRC had earlier considered the case of Private Wichian Phuaksom, who was tortured to death at a training camp in Narathiwat in 2011. Following that incident, the NHRC submitted recommendations to the Army.

 

“We have asked the Army to stop the violent punishment and torture. Moreover, the Army has to properly compensate the family of the victim too,” she said.

 

Preeda Nakpiew, a lawyer from the Cross Cultural Foundation, said his organisation had assisted in legal battles regarding at least three similar cases, including those of Wichian and Private Songtham Mudmad, who was beaten to death at a military base in Yala last year.

 

“It is totally illegal to torture anyone, even if they are subordinates in the Army. Our organisation is trying hard to campaign on the inspection of exercise of power inside military bases, but so far our efforts have not been fruitful,” Preeda said.

 

“This is a chronic problem in the Army. Most of the time, the exercise of power at a military base is left unchecked and there is no control on the use of power to order or punish someone, despite there being clear rules about this.”

 

Maj-General Wichai Thassan-amontian, commander of the Military Circle 45, ordered the two soldiers allegedly involved in the torture of Private Yuthinan Boonniam, which led to his death, to be removed from their posts at Military Circle 45 to facilitate further investigation.

 

Wichai also ordered the setting up of a committee to investigate the death of Private Yuthinan.

 

Meanwhile, Royal Thai Army spokesperson Colonel Winthai Suvaree said Saturday’s incident was caused by commanders who did not control their emotions.

 

“The death of a conscript is very rare. Most of those [who died] had weak health or a chronic disease, so they had problems when facing intense punishment, and we find very few cases from more than 100,000 conscripts. We only find such a case once every year, or less than that,” Winthai said.

 

The spokesman said the incident would not have any effect on military conscription this year, because it was “a separate story”.

 

It has been reported that the number of conscriptions is slowly increasing every year. 

 

This year there was a need for 103,097 draftees compared to 101,307 in 2016 and 99,373 in 2015.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30311100

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-04-03

[canuckamuck]

Quote

“The death of a conscript is very rare. Most of those [who died] had weak health or a chronic disease, so they had problems when facing intense punishment, and we find very few cases from more than 100,000 conscripts. We only find such a case once every year, or less than that,” Winthai said.

So the army is saying the conscripts can only blame themselves for being too weak to face intense punishment.  

It is time to test this concept on those making this claim. Let's see what their level of tolerance for intense punishment is.

[rkidlad]

'some commanders became too angry when punishing subordinates'

 

Clearly these commanders are not practising Buddhism properly. Maybe there's somewhere else they can learn better morals. 

[leeneeds]

4 deaths in recent years,

no wonder most do not want to go to bully school,

serious vindictive punishment, given out by 

inadequate managerial retards,

 

[yellowboat]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

urging the Army to stop using harsh punishment and respect draftees’ human rights.

Punishments use to be KP duty, peeling potatoes or cleaning boots and barracks.  Anger shows a lack of control.   Something intolerable for men who wield a country's vast armory.  The deaths show how broken the military is and how they ruining the country. 

[imagemaestro]

Noted that this part has gone unremarked.  Slow build up ....increase in army numbers.....  why ?

I am not even sure why Thailand requires a large conscript army.  Against whom are we/they afeared ?  How does having a large conscript army alleviate this ?

Or do I suspiciously think there is a political aspect to this ?

[Familyaffairs]

This is a bloody disgrace, police investigating gating police, army investigating army. If one of my sons got killed while in the army as a conscript, I would seek an appointment with the commanding officer and return the 'favour' in kind. Never mind spending the rest of my life in gaol.

[Thechook]

Not our fault, he had poor health.  Um feel free to correct me but isnt the health and well being of soldiers the responsibilty of Army?  The soldier is responsible for maintaing his rifle and kit in pristine condition if it isnt you replace it.  If the soldier isnt in good condition you make arrangements and provide assistance or medical discharge not beat him to death.  Blaming his health because you killed him doesnt cut it.

[thesetat2013]

any other country and the 2 soldiers would be in a jail cell waiting the outcome of the investigation. Their commander would be facing serious repercussions and the possibility of demotion for his lack of leadership and lack of control of his subordinates... even possible criminal charges for his ordering other soldiers to do this... But.. i know... this is thailand and most all of the world just doesnt understand thais and thainess. And a monetary payout to the family is all it takes to satisfy the family. What a shame for the careless disregard for life and shame on the family for accepting a compensation for their sons death when they should be demanding prison sentences for all of those involved.

 

 

[IamNoone88]

“The death of Private Yuthinan was a tragic one and can be considered as a human rights violation. The NHRC will discuss how to deal with the case on Tuesday.”

 

In any other country, that would be called murder - not a human rights violation.

[darksidedog]

36 minutes ago, IamNoone88 said:

“The death of Private Yuthinan was a tragic one and can be considered as a human rights violation. The NHRC will discuss how to deal with the case on Tuesday.”

 

In any other country, that would be called murder - not a human rights violation.

I thought Thailand didn't have any human rights violations?

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, imagemaestro said:

Noted that this part has gone unremarked.  Slow build up ....increase in army numbers.....  why ?

I am not even sure why Thailand requires a large conscript army.  Against whom are we/they afeared ?  How does having a large conscript army alleviate this ?

Or do I suspiciously think there is a political aspect to this ?

 

Thailand uses its Army to enforce its will and control over the Thai people.  For as long as television has been available to the masses, they have been fed propaganda about how the military protects them and the borders from perceived, but in reality, imaginary threats.They are good at posturing and masters at military parades. I don't think they would want to push their luck in a conflict with the likes of  say, Vietnam!

 

It is not an Army that is really used for external conflict unless you wish to include border infringements and skirmishes which is just sabre rattling.

 

A minimal loss of life involving people of no consequence to the ' powers that be ' such as civilians poaching or logging.

 

I would like to see these lardy ass Generals and scum who allow these horrendous punishments to be carried out in the name of discipline to be subjected to the same ordeal for a week. You don't ' suspend them from duty ' or move them to ' inactive posts '  you make an example of  them by jailing them and disgracing them and showing others what happens if they participate in these vile practices and behaviour.

 

I am very sad today for the family of that young conscript, who only went because he was drafted  by the law to allegedly "serve his country" and fully expected to resume his life after two years.

 

The only thing a military government has brought to Thailand is pigs in different coloured uniforms gorging at the economic trough of the country.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Scouse123

[steven100]

yes ,  very sad indeed ......  such a handsome young man.  RIP.

[steven100]

I think conscription is a good thing and it's a shame that Australia doesn't implement such requirement,  if it did there would be alot less violence within the community and the young learn discipline and respect as oppose to rampant drug use and burglaries,  lack of responsibility and caring.

 

But the do gooders have stuffed Australia, so they made their bed ... they can lay in it.

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I think conscription is a good thing and it's a shame that Australia doesn't implement such requirement,  if it did there would be alot less violence within the community and the young learn discipline and respect as oppose to rampant drug use and burglaries,  lack of responsibility and caring.

 

But the do gooders have stuffed Australia, so they made their bed ... they can lay in it.

 

Perhaps there should be a formula, conscription for 1 or 2 years but every lad given the opportunity to gain qualifications in a profession that can bring him a good income.

 

On this item I suspect there's another point. I often read article about people feeling abandoned / feeling left behind by society / felling unemployable (any country) and I believe this all relates strongly to rampant capitalism. Surely it also relates to drug use.

 

Since rampant capitalism is here to stay for at least a few more decades why not give these youngsters a second chance at education in a subject they are interested in, work experience, and at the same time learn the basics of defending their country. Perhaps even pay them a bonus if they get their discharge along with a degree or diploma etc.

 

Win - win.

 

[Bluespunk]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Meanwhile, Royal Thai Army spokesperson Colonel Winthai Suvaree said Saturday’s incident was caused by commanders who did not control their emotions.

No, it was caused by a culture of arrogance, violence, intolerance and a sense of impunity from the consequences of such actions.

[Bluespunk]

29 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I think conscription is a good thing and it's a shame that Australia doesn't implement such requirement,  if it did there would be alot less violence within the community and the young learn discipline and respect as oppose to rampant drug use and burglaries,  lack of responsibility and caring.

 

But the do gooders have stuffed Australia, so they made their bed ... they can lay in it.

Sarcasm/irony?

[steven100]

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Perhaps there should be a formula, conscription for 1 or 2 years but every lad given the opportunity to gain qualifications in a profession that can bring him a good income.

 

On this item I suspect there's another point. I often read article about people feeling abandoned / feeling left behind by society / felling unemployable (any country) and I believe this all relates strongly to rampant capitalism. Surely it also relates to drug use.

 

Since rampant capitalism is here to stay for at least a few more decades why not give these youngsters a second chance at education in a subject they are interested in, work experience, and at the same time learn the basics of defending their country. Perhaps even pay them a bonus if they get their discharge along with a degree or diploma etc.

 

Win - win.

 

Exactly ....  I have always said,  2 yrs which includes 6 mths training, discipline,  6 mths workshop experience, 6 mths community service, 6 mths career path and development ready for work outside.

And the cost of the dole,  could be used for this purpose.   As you mentioned ...  it's a win -  win  ..

 

[Grusa]

18 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No, it was caused by a culture of arrogance, violence, intolerance and a sense of impunity from the consequences of such actions.

Which is inculcated at home and at school, and in the temples, from the moment of birth. There is no quick fix, and probably no slow one either. Same as fundamentalist so called religious cultures.

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No, it was caused by a culture of arrogance, violence, intolerance and a sense of impunity from the consequences of such actions.

 All that you mentioned grew out of the fact that the civilian authority can't control the military and in fact it was the military that dominate civilian authority. The military has become a state within a state that breeds the culture of might and impunity and they have the support from the elites to maintain Thailand's status quo.

[Prbkk]

The system is broken, has been for many years. Hiso elite simply do not serve but weasel their way out through medicals, deferrals, never-ending study, graft ( where did Boss Red Bull do his conscription?). Meanwhile the sons of the big guns get appointed to cushy jobs or are awarded very dubious contracts in/from daddy's office.

The way the system is run now it's very much the lunatics in charge of the asylum.

[Chicken George]

youtube shows or did show beatings of conscripts. Easy to bully when there is no right of reply.. 

Stop conscription now or change the program to include career paths. 

[hotchilli]

Most of those [who died] had weak health or a chronic disease, so they had problems when facing intense punishment

In which case why were they being intensely punished, they should have been receiving medical treatment or removed form the service

NOT BEATEN TO DEATH !!!!!

[Prbkk]

1 minute ago, Chicken George said:

youtube shows or did show beatings of conscripts. Easy to bully when there is no right of reply.. 

Stop conscription now or change the program to include career paths. 

Yes, that's one of the great frustrations for young graduates serving conscription: there appears to be little effort to use the skills of the individual, rather it's one size fits all. Consequently the kids are assigned roles unrelated to background and many of them complete training with "stale" professional skills.

Taiwan used to have the worst system: brutal , irrelevant, many, many deaths. They have cleaned it up over the past 15 years. Thailand could follow suit.

[Eligius]

16 minutes ago, Chicken George said:

Easy to bully when there is no right of reply.. 

 

'Easy to bully when there is no right of reply.'

 

And there in those wise words of Chicken George is the whole of present-day tyrannical Thailand! This is the system we and the Thais are living under ...

Edited April 3, 2017 by Eligius

[TKDfella]

Death by beating is murder, it is only the n^th 'degree' that has to be determined. Sadly, I can't see that happening. The conscript must have been in absolute agony and those responsible should receive the harshest possible punishment but again, I doubt it. My feelings to the family. In the article it said '...is rare...' but the point is this type of deliberate treatment shouldn't happen at all and shows just how much control, the lack of, the commanders have over their juniors. And whatever happened to the idea that the buck stops at camp commander too? That won't happen either. 

[Eric Loh]

Just last year September, junta PM Prayut made a statement with a promise to make torture a criminal offense under Thai law and to fulfill Thailand's obligation under the Convention against Torture. This Convention is against torture and other cruel acts, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment and places obligation on the Government to investigate and prosecute acts of torture and other ill-treatment.

 

Will see if Prayut will live up to his promise. If past references were made, the record stands at no prosecution yet of any military abuses and instead the military provide financial compensation in exchange for not pursuing criminal prosecution.  

[daveAustin]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

I think conscription is a good thing and it's a shame that Australia doesn't implement such requirement,  if it did there would be alot less violence within the community and the young learn discipline and respect as oppose to rampant drug use and burglaries,  lack of responsibility and caring.

 

But the do gooders have stuffed Australia, so they made their bed ... they can lay in it.

I agree, it is a good thing in a normal country, but as much as I love it, don't think Thailand quite qualifies right now. Too many brainwashed face-is-everything nutters. My kids might end up in the military, but it won't be here. 

[Thechook]

45 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

Yes, that's one of the great frustrations for young graduates serving conscription: there appears to be little effort to use the skills of the individual, rather it's one size fits all. Consequently the kids are assigned roles unrelated to background and many of them complete training with "stale" professional skills.

Taiwan used to have the worst system: brutal , irrelevant, many, many deaths. They have cleaned it up over the past 15 years. Thailand could follow suit.

A lot of them are used by officers and their wives around private homes cleaning gardening and other various tasks. The brother in law always has few

[realenglish1]

“The death of a conscript is very rare. Most of those [who died] had weak health or a chronic disease, so they had problems when facing intense punishment, and we find very few cases from more than 100,000 conscripts. We only find such a case once every year, or less than that,” Winthai said."

 

This is a load or garbage They are now blaming the conscript because he died not because someone beat him to death 

 

There should be NO reason for death in the services from the hands of another member. They are tying to shift the blame .

 

The commander and its subordinates that are involved should be removed from service and charged That is plain and simple