Public backlash as Thais slam new pick-up passenger rules

[thaisail]

I bought my Ford Ranger Wild Track in 2012. We had a 4 year old daughter at the time and we decided that we wanted to keep her. So, we put seat belts in the back seat of our Open Cab. I had to special order them from Ford who did not want to install them. So, I did the job myself. I then added another seat belt in the middle for the car seat. We felt completely safe with the door design that allows the doors to be opened up so that the entire seating area can be accessed in the case of an accident. The Wild track comes with a factory built roll bar. We have ABS brakes that came in handy when some idiot motorbike pulled out in front of us without looking and we were able to stop in time in the pouring rain. There have been times when we had some people visit us and we drove to the beach with some people in the back and I suppose there was a bit of risk but it was only done in about 3 days of the 5 years that I have driven that truck. How can this government compare the danger of my truck to the motorcycles that are running around Phuket with no protection what so ever in the case of a collision. Even a helmet will not prevent a broken neck or stop someone from running over you if your bike drops on the road and slides into oncoming traffic. Let's get real and try to understand that we can never be 100% safe. 

 

The real issue with Songkran is drunk driving  and speeding. The solution is put up roadblocks and make all the drivers blow into the balloons and if they fail the test, they go straight to jail and lose their driver's license for 6 months to a year. On the second time, they go to jail for one year and they lose their license forever! For speeding it is quite simple. Put up speed cameras in all the right places and mail the tickets to the car owners. The cameras will pay for themselves. This is being done in all the civilized countries. When will Thailand become civilized? 

[thequietman]

1 minute ago, carbine1125 said:

Mine had pladtic plugs in the bolt holes under the carpet at the sides. You nee to remove the plastic trim at the sides if the back window to find the side bolt mounts. At least in my ford ranger.

Yep. I see the shape on the side of the cab where a seat belt mount would go. Did you cut a hole in it?

[brain150]

37 minutes ago, weejun said:

...

 

Furthermore, your argument ignores the group effect. When there's no enforcement in place, people may become lazy and ignore the rules. And as more and more people ignore the rules, they affect others and make them more likely to ignore the rules as well. It becomes self-reinforcing. No one cares about the rules, and no one cares about staying safe in traffic because no one else does. In these cases, people need someone to guide them in the right direction. When voluntarily following the rules, or doing the right thing, doesn't work it's time for someone with authority to see to it that the people are guided.

Just because somebody might feel bad does not mean you can force somebody to do something he does not want to do !
Other peoples feelings are completely irrelevant.

Wearing a seat belt or not does not do any harm to anybody than the one wearing it ! It's his choice and he is free to do so.

 

Your whole point of people needing to be forced for what's good for them is simple insanity !

How do you know what's good for somebody else ? ... it's all based on your believes.

Mine might be different ... that's my right as a sovereign individual !

As long as somebody does not cause damage or harm to SOMEBODY else, the individual should never be forced to do something.

 

It's a big difference to have traffic rules for traffic safety and wearing a seat belt or helmet that are exclusively for individual safety !

If I crash my head it will not hurt you in any way ! If you drive me off my bike then you are responsible for hurting me and me wearing

a helmet or not or a seat belt or not is irrelevant !

 

The problem is how to drive a car and a certain amount of responsibility for ones actions !!!

Seat belts and helmets are completely irrelevant for overall traffic ... they are for personal safety and as such have to be a personal decision.

 

I never gave authority to anybody to care for my personal safety so anybody who claims it has to be either god or a dictator !

... so you are either god or you like dictatorships.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by brain150

[JGV]

This law is well over due - the reaction well these people are ignorant about the dangers out there on these dangerous roads and are just thinking of travelling on the cheap or making a quick profit by offering lifts at cheap prices

The same can be seen with the non-use of seat belts - with regard to rules on the road given the shocking accidents seen daily here and the appalling driving I say crackdown and drive this immature ignorant behaviour away and force people to grow up and be adult instead of behaving like whiny children

[carbine1125]

5 minutes ago, thequietman said:

Yep. I see the shape on the side of the cab where a seat belt mount would go. Did you cut a hole in it?

Yes I had to make holes but the position is marked behind the plastic.

[hobz]

28 minutes ago, brain150 said:

Just because somebody might feel bad does not mean you can force somebody to do something he does not want to do !
Other peoples feelings are completely irrelevant.

Wearing a seat belt or not does not do any harm to anybody than the one wearing it ! It's his choice and he is free to do so.

 

Your whole point of people needing to be forced for what's good for them is simple insanity !

How do you know what's good for somebody else ? ... it's all based on your believes.

Mine might be different ... that's my right as a sovereign individual !

As long as somebody does not cause damage or harm to SOMEBODY else, the individual should never be forced to do something.

 

It's a big difference to have traffic rules for traffic safety and wearing a seat belt or helmet that are exclusively for individual safety !

If I crash my head it will not hurt you in any way ! If you drive me off my bike then you are responsible for hurting me and me wearing

a helmet or not or a seat belt or not is irrelevant !

 

The problem is how to drive a car and a certain amount of responsibility for ones actions !!!

Seat belts and helmets are completely irrelevant for overall traffic ... they are for personal safety and as such have to be a personal decision.

 

I never gave authority to anybody to care for my personal safety so anybody who claims it has to be either god or a dictator !

... so you are either god or you like dictatorships.

 

 

There's only two slight possible problems with your argument. One is that if you have a public health care system, then if you're not wearing a seat belt and get more injured you are putting extra load on the public health care system.

The other is insurance, basically the price of health insurance should be higher if you are not wearing a seatbelt. 

 

However, I still kind of agree that its up to each individual as long as they are not harming anyone else.

 

People falling out of pickups might fall in the way of other vehicles and cause further accidents.

 

Anyway, bottom line is that if they really want to improve traffic safety they gotta enforce the other rules first, like reckless driving, speeding, etc.

[thaisail]

10 hours ago, thequietman said:

GK, any ideas where we could buy restraints?

I had to order the seat belts from the Ford dealer for my 2011 Ford Ranger Open Cab. There are threaded holes are in the frame and it was easy to do the job. 5 years ago, the Ford mechanics at the dealer refused to fit the new belts when they arrived so I did the job myself. I then bought another belt for the center back seat for attaching the car seat for our 4 year old daughter at the time. When everyone is in the truck, I do not start the engine until everyone has put on their seat belt. In the sun in Phuket sitting in a closed vehicle it gets hot quickly so it doesn't take long to get everyone buckled up. How would you feel to be driving your truck and have a vehicle from opposite directing cross over and hit you? When the air bag inflates the last thing you see is your child going through the windshield from the back seat if the child is not buckled in. It is the right thing to do!

[thequietman]

21 minutes ago, thaisail said:

I had to order the seat belts from the Ford dealer for my 2011 Ford Ranger Open Cab. There are threaded holes are in the frame and it was easy to do the job. 5 years ago, the Ford mechanics at the dealer refused to fit the new belts when they arrived so I did the job myself. I then bought another belt for the center back seat for attaching the car seat for our 4 year old daughter at the time. When everyone is in the truck, I do not start the engine until everyone has put on their seat belt. In the sun in Phuket sitting in a closed vehicle it gets hot quickly so it doesn't take long to get everyone buckled up. How would you feel to be driving your truck and have a vehicle from opposite directing cross over and hit you? When the air bag inflates the last thing you see is your child going through the windshield from the back seat if the child is not buckled in. It is the right thing to do!

Did you order rigid ones as they can't be connected to the brake system, unlike the front factory fitted ones?  Many thanks for all your feed back. It is very much appreciated. 

[SiamBeast]

Let me guess.They will say "postponed until after Songkran" but in fact, during Songkran, they will tell media to shut up about it, and tell police to turn a blind eye. No more attention, loss of face avoided, peace restored.

[jojothai]

I have only read a few pages of the comments and perhaps have not read enough to gauge overall reaction.

However what I did read  does not seem to reflect an understanding that this is likely to crucify the livelihood of many poor people in the provinces (and will affect Bangkok, - but perhaps more likely to be companies).

Many workers go to the farm or workplace in the established transport method in the back of pickups (and trucks).

And many that I see do not travel at high speed.

Are they all supposed to go out and buy extra motorbikes and vehicles? 

Alright for those with the money, and the wealthy thais who have plenty of vehicles to do what they want. Some are all right jack.

 

Amazing Thailand.  No consideration.

What are the consequences???

Can the public transportation systems cope with large increases in numbers using it?

Are there not too many vehicles on the roads in Bangkok already ?

Don't the government want to encourage sharing of vehicles  to lower usage?

Screw the environment as well. What are the pollution effects of having more vehicles, and very  likely a lot more motorbikes?

Many more motorbikes are going to be required, causing more deaths?

Are we going to see much more of people sharing rides on motorbikes?

 

I am appalled that this law is being imposed in such a short time without due consideration of the consequences and some sort of strategy. Perhaps it may even be worth considering ideas like decent benches being fitted to use in the pickups. Maybe its not as dangerous as getting in a minivan (seat belt or not) where you will be trapped and likely burnt alive.

 

In my opinion its only right that so many Thais may be against it.

Last week I could see the great concern this was causing in the farming community  where I live half the time.

I would be surprised if the government does not have to back down. They need to work out a planned and staged strategy. 

(TIT - am I mad thinking this could happen??)

 

For those who want to claim it is about saving lives to Western standards,  I would say hold your horses, and give consideration to screwing up the livelihood for a large number of the common population. Its likely to be the poorest that are hit the hardest.

 

[Psimbo]

Police backpedaling on this already but can't post link as its BP.  I can't see how I can be prosecuted for having rear seat passengers in the back of my four door pickup which is fitted with seat belts.

 

This 'law', like a lot of others recently. has been released without people thinking it through so stand by for 'oh, it was a misunderstanding'. 

 

Ridiculous that someone with a four door car can have passengers but not someone in a four door truck if I understand the policy correctly.

[hobz]

1 hour ago, jojothai said:

I have only read a few pages of the comments and perhaps have not read enough to gauge overall reaction.

However what I did read  does not seem to reflect an understanding that this is likely to crucify the livelihood of many poor people in the provinces (and will affect Bangkok, - but perhaps more likely to be companies).

Many workers go to the farm or workplace in the established transport method in the back of pickups (and trucks).

And many that I see do not travel at high speed.

Are they all supposed to go out and buy extra motorbikes and vehicles? 

Alright for those with the money, and the wealthy thais who have plenty of vehicles to do what they want. Some are all right jack.

 

Amazing Thailand.  No consideration.

What are the consequences???

Can the public transportation systems cope with large increases in numbers using it?

Are there not too many vehicles on the roads in Bangkok already ?

Don't the government want to encourage sharing of vehicles  to lower usage?

Screw the environment as well. What are the pollution effects of having more vehicles, and very  likely a lot more motorbikes?

Many more motorbikes are going to be required, causing more deaths?

Are we going to see much more of people sharing rides on motorbikes?

 

I am appalled that this law is being imposed in such a short time without due consideration of the consequences and some sort of strategy. Perhaps it may even be worth considering ideas like decent benches being fitted to use in the pickups. Maybe its not as dangerous as getting in a minivan (seat belt or not) where you will be trapped and likely burnt alive.

 

In my opinion its only right that so many Thais may be against it.

Last week I could see the great concern this was causing in the farming community  where I live half the time.

I would be surprised if the government does not have to back down. They need to work out a planned and staged strategy. 

(TIT - am I mad thinking this could happen??)

 

For those who want to claim it is about saving lives to Western standards,  I would say hold your horses, and give consideration to screwing up the livelihood for a large number of the common population. Its likely to be the poorest that are hit the hardest.

 

Excellent points. They should have people like you in power. People who can use their brains..

I bet it took you like 20 minutes to figure out what the thai leaders will never figure out in 10 lifetimes. Hopefully they will some day be smart enough to get foreign consultants to come in and make plans for them.

[fish monger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was illegal already to be riding in the back of a pickup truck.....???

[stog]

The problem is in the mindset, the public here do not think these laws are introduced for health and safety they believe they are merely more ways for money to  be squeezed out of them.

I had cause to be in a provincial police station a couple of years ago after a drunk on a motorbike hit my car (at 7 in the morning). The place was full of people paying 200 bt fines for no crash helmets, they were laughing and joking with the police about how they will be more clever next time and take a different route in an effort not to get caught. Not one even considered wearing the helmet could actually help them in an accident.

 

Couple this mindset with a Police force that has no inclination to enforce new rules like this other than for a few days at the start of the purge then you will never see a change.

[weejun]

5 hours ago, brain150 said:

Just because somebody might feel bad does not mean you can force somebody to do something he does not want to do !
Other peoples feelings are completely irrelevant.

Wearing a seat belt or not does not do any harm to anybody than the one wearing it ! It's his choice and he is free to do so.

 

Your whole point of people needing to be forced for what's good for them is simple insanity !

How do you know what's good for somebody else ? ... it's all based on your believes.

Mine might be different ... that's my right as a sovereign individual !

As long as somebody does not cause damage or harm to SOMEBODY else, the individual should never be forced to do something.

 

It's a big difference to have traffic rules for traffic safety and wearing a seat belt or helmet that are exclusively for individual safety !

If I crash my head it will not hurt you in any way ! If you drive me off my bike then you are responsible for hurting me and me wearing

a helmet or not or a seat belt or not is irrelevant !

 

The problem is how to drive a car and a certain amount of responsibility for ones actions !!!

Seat belts and helmets are completely irrelevant for overall traffic ... they are for personal safety and as such have to be a personal decision.

 

I never gave authority to anybody to care for my personal safety so anybody who claims it has to be either god or a dictator !

... so you are either god or you like dictatorships.

Comparing mandatory seat belt use to a dictatorship is a bit excessive, don't you think? How about a sense of proportion here?

 

I think I already explain how this is about more than people's feelings. You failed to address that.

 

Yes, sovereign individuals and all that. But the fact is that people's actions affect other people, and that means they are not as free to do what they want as if their actions didn't affect anyone.

[hobz]

1 hour ago, fish monger said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was illegal already to be riding in the back of a pickup truck.....???

Thai law works in mysterious ways.

There's multiple levels.

Level 1: the law exists but is never enforced. Most common level.

Level 2: the law exists and is being enforced during "crackdowns" a couple of days every 3 years or so.

Level 3: "permanent crackdown". It has been tried a few times, but has always ended shortly due to police being incapable of doing their jobs for more than a few days each year. Except for checking helmets and driver license on motorbikes.

 

[hotchilli]

As usual Thais are crying out foul play over this.

You cannot stop their fun or road madness by applying road laws which have been in existence for many years in other countries and have been proved to save lives.

Thais will always say if you do this my business will suffer, if you do that I'll lose money, if you do the other it will inconvenience me etc etc and so it goes on.

Well this is 2017 and it's about time Thailand caught up with the rest of the world.

It's widely know Thailand is #2 in the world for road deaths & injuries so now it's time to get tough & smart, apply & enforce some common sense laws.

No longer can Thais just do what they please and to hell with the consequences.

 

 

[ignis]

what about the Police Pickups ? are they exempt ?

 

How would the Police set up road blocks to catch all these pickups with no policemen ? around where I live the only Police cars are  2 door Pickups..

 

Policemen still sitting/standing in the back bed yesterday

[AGareth2]

10 hours ago, thaisail said:

We had a 4 year old daughter at the time and we decided that we wanted to keep her.

very pleased to hear that

not many happy stories on TV

[bannork]

As someone said this is a law made by rich people in air-conditioned offices who have no idea how the majority of people live. A pick-up is an essential means of transport for many Thais and their  extended families and friends. 

Regarding accidents at Songkran, last year, as in every year, weren't over 85% of the accidents caused by drunk youths on motorbikes?

[Netzero]

All of these 'new' rules as announced under Sec 44 make sense (I don't say that often in Thailand). People should not be sitting in the bed of a pickup truck, people should not be sitting on a flat back bench with no seat belts in a two door pick up cab and be unable to easily get out in the event of a crash, passengers in a van should be wearing seat belts as well as the back passengers in a passenger car....all are enforced rules in the US, UK and Oz and they all make sense. Some people complaining...that is to be expected because behavior must change. No sympathy - the Thai road death toll is way to high....now how to stop people from driving like mad men?

[Artisi]

7 hours ago, hobz said:

Excellent points. They should have people like you in power. People who can use their brains..

I bet it took you like 20 minutes to figure out what the thai leaders will never figure out in 10 lifetimes. Hopefully they will some day be smart enough to get foreign consultants to come in and make plans for them.

Not to run-down the original poster to this comment, but anyone with less than half a brain could sort out the problem. 

[BuckBee]

21 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Please use common sense: A 4 door vehicle will have a proper seating restraints in the passenger area. The intent is to keep people out of the interior cargo area in the 2 door vehicles because the passengers are trapped and  cannot exit when the vehicle crashes. Passengers typically asphyxiate or burn to death in serious crashes that crumple the front ends. One should not transport people in a vehicle trunk either.

 

 

The government is to be commended for this attempt at dealing with a major source of death and serious injuries in car crashes. People are thrown out of the vehicles and have their heads split open like melons dropped on the  ground. Sadly, I anticipate it will be as enforced as effectively as the helmet law.

absolute rubbish, many 2 door extra cabs have proper seats and belts etc, what about 2 door hatchbacks lol, going ban sitting in back of them,

While sitting in the truck bed is indeed dangerous within cab on seats supplied from factory should not be legally banned unless over the designed seating capacity .  one extreme to the other and no common sense as usual :-/

[selftaopath]

20 hours ago, jaltsc said:

“The Thai public has given a massive thumbs down to the authorities after plans to ban people in the back of pick-ups were announced.”

 

Typical of the thinking that is prevalent. When you are taught what to think and not how to think, you cannot identify the risks and benefits of any action. All these protesters see is the inconvenience and do not have a clue of the dangers involved with having 10+ people riding in the bed of a pickup. Sometimes it is the job of the government to protect its citizenry from their own stupidity and ignorance.

 

In this case, people will continue to do what is convenient for them. Perhaps the only law that will affect them is that of natural selection. Unfortunately, there will be many innocent children who will affected by their elders stupidity.

Thanks jaltsc, I agree with most of your post. Another reason for this behavior as I see it is economics and lack of adequate public transportation - especially here in Isaan. Hell the wait to get a bus from Kaengkhro going toward Nongruea can be 4-5 hours. And sometimes the driver decides not to show up at all. Does the govt. etc. do anything in assisting individuals whose only mode of transportation is a motorbike?

[Notadoctor]

21 hours ago, jaltsc said:

“The Thai public has given a massive thumbs down to the authorities after plans to ban people in the back of pick-ups were announced.”

 

Typical of the thinking that is prevalent. When you are taught what to think and not how to think, you cannot identify the risks and benefits of any action. All these protesters see is the inconvenience and do not have a clue of the dangers involved with having 10+ people riding in the bed of a pickup. Sometimes it is the job of the government to protect its citizenry from their own stupidity and ignorance.

 

In this case, people will continue to do what is convenient for them. Perhaps the only law that will affect them is that of natural selection. Unfortunately, there will be many innocent children who will affected by their elders stupidity.

"Sometimes it is the job of the government to protect its citizenry from their own stupidity and ignorance." -

I agree - the mistake that th casual observer makes is to think that racially Thai people are more prone to being stupid than the rest of the world - this is patently nonsense. the road safety situation in Thailand is the result of decades of inept and corrupt government that has paid scant heed to the advice of road safety. they have built unsafe roads, encouraged unsafe cars, driving practices and failed to enforce any laws that have been introduced.

sudden nape-of-the-neck dictums like those before SK will have little  or no effect unless the whole road use environment is radically altered

[ignis]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

As someone said this is a law made by rich people in air-conditioned offices who have no idea how the majority of people live. A pick-up is an essential means of transport for many Thais and their  extended families and friends. 

Regarding accidents at Songkran, last year, as in every year, weren't over 85% of the accidents caused by drunk youths on motorbikes?

So say with the 1,000's of Mini Bus soon to be off the road/For Sale, maybe the extended families and friends pickup will be a old Mini Bus ?

 

As for builders there tools and workers, many other places use 'Crew' Mini Bus

[Gramps]

Sensible,  desirable and totally impractical. Nice try!

[harrry]

14 hours ago, Old Salt said:

AS someone already mentioned, they have to start somewhere.

For all of those negative folks, think about this... if the UK, Canada, US, Australia, NZ, and others, reduced the number of well trained traffic police per capita to that of Thailand, those countries could well revert to the same disasters we all see here everyday... and yes, this is a daily thing not just focused on Songkran and NYears holidays.  The government no doubt knows they need more well trained, better paid traffic police.  They must also know that without them, trying to implement this latest batch of laws will be nigh impossible.

 

Aside from the many already mentioned characteristics of the local drivers (driving on the wrong side, speeding, impatience, etc) I have to also mention these:

1.  Non-standard vehicle lighting - Blue tail lights(?), flashing red tail-lights(?).  If a standard hasn't been established, establish it and during annual licensing/insurance checks, check these as well.  Many countries call these a warrant of fitness.

2.  Darkened windows.  Recommend no more than 40% heat/privacy/security (?) film on the windscreen and front side windows of ALL vehicles.  Its time for Thai drivers to be able to observe their fellow citizens behind the wheel, and be able to acknowledge them, wave them into a lane, etc.  Yes, if you are trying to hide a girlfriend from your wife, have her sit in the back seat.

3.  Up the standard of driver training - including oversight of the same.

As you  bring up Austrlaia you should know that you do not have to wear seatbelts in Australia if they re not fitted and were not fitted as original maanafacture of the vehicle.  You will find thaT olderr vehicles do not have seat belts and they do not have to be worn.

Edited April 6, 2017 by harrry

[hobz]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

Not to run-down the original poster to this comment, but anyone with less than half a brain could sort out the problem. 

Exactly, that's why it's so amazing and scary to see the decisions the current leadership are producing. It's like they have no brains at all. It's easy to think that they just dont care. But clearly they have no brains as well.

[kannot]

20 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

There are children involved who have no choice.

My Total objection to  ALL religions making it child  abuse