Blue Residence Book and Land Ownership.

[Formaleins]

Question for anyone with a bit of info here.

 

Years ago we bought some land and built a home here. The land was registered as owned by my Thai wife.

 

Since then, the land has bee transferred to my son, (16 year old).

 

What is the situation with the Blue Tabien Bahn? and more to the point what is the situation regarding ownership of the actual property.

 

From what I can gather, I may be wrong so correct me if so, the transfer of the land by chanote makes it 100% legally owned by him, so that should include the property built on it??? YES?

 

Being a minor, no one can use this land / home (i.e. Thai Mother) to borrow money or make any financial guarantee?  YES?

 

My last question, do I need to change anything in the Blue Book at the Amphur to list the house as having my son own it rather than my wife?

 

 

[BEVUP]

Ok wife owns land & no doubt house (house can actually be owned by someone else)

BY the way there are many threads of this on the forum

* The Blue Book only proves who is the head of house PG 1( to my belief the owner ) & whoever else is registered to live there (Thais dont seem to worry who is in there Blue Book )

* The Chanote is the main thing as it has owners name on it & should have wifes as well ( being guardian)

   Land Department automatically (thinking foreigners are stupid) decides to give Guardianship to the mother (being Thai) & making us sign the Samuros thing

* Need to apply to a court for any financial descision on land

* Yes you should of had to change Chanote & Blue book

[Formaleins]

3 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Ok wife owns land & no doubt house (house can actually be owned by someone else)

BY the way there are many threads of this on the forum

* The Blue Book only proves who is the head of house PG 1( to my belief the owner ) & whoever else is registered to live there (Thais dont seem to worry who is in there Blue Book )

* The Chanote is the main thing as it has owners name on it & should have wifes as well ( being guardian)

   Land Department automatically (thinking foreigners are stupid) decides to give Guardianship to the mother (being Thai) & making us sign the Samuros thing

* Need to apply to a court for any financial descision on land

* Yes you should of had to change Chanote & Blue book

Thanks,

 

but the actual chanote has been transferred to my son, so the land belongs to him. (There is no Guardianship it has been registered at the land office in my son's name)

 

I was just interested as if we had to change anything on the blue book to register him as the owner and thus prevent anyone borrowing or taking a loan out on the land.

 

Thanks.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Formaleins

[Peterw42]

A blue book does not list or have any thing to do with ownership, a long term tenant can have a blue book. 

[BEVUP]

13 minutes ago, Formaleins said:

Thanks,

 

but the actual chanote has been transferred to my son, so the land belongs to him. (There is no Guardianship it has been registered at the land office in my son's name)

 

I was just interested as if we had to change anything on the blue book to register him as the owner and thus prevent anyone borrowing or taking a loan out on the land.

 

Thanks.

Has to be guardianship as your son is not 20 yr old ( my wife thinks 18 ) that is why she is on the 1 st pg of the Blue book

[thedemon]

The blue book (Tabien Baan) can list anyone (or no one) as head of household (Jao Baan). It has nothing whatsoever to do with ownership of the property.

 

Before the Amphur will agree to list someone as Jao Baan, they may require proof that either that person is the owner of the property or they have permission from the owner. Maybe this is where the confusion comes from.

[Kwasaki]

14 hours ago, Formaleins said:

My last question, do I need to change anything in the Blue Book at the Amphur to list the house as having my son own it rather than my wife?

Don't know what you are at here,  your wife can answer all your questions.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Kwasaki

[bmore99]

Get yourself the usefruct and you'll be safe. No one will lend money on a land/house with a registered usefruct on it.

Sent from my SM-A800F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[BEVUP]

9 hours ago, bmore99 said:

Get yourself the usefruct and you'll be safe. No one will lend money on a land/house with a registered usefruct on it.

Sent from my SM-A800F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Don"t bet on it 

[bmore99]

It will be worthless to them, as the usefruct remains whom ever is or becones the owner. It's mentioned on the land title, so they can't miss it.

Sent from my SM-A800F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[BEVUP]

1 minute ago, bmore99 said:

It will be worthless to them, as the usefruct remains whom ever is or becones the owner. It's mentioned on the land title, so they can't miss it.

Sent from my SM-A800F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

So when someone signs over a property to a loaner to help their family & they renege on payments what do you think will happen 

IE : Maybe the loaner will come screamer for the borrower to pay up or he will sell the house

[BEVUP]

3 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

So when someone signs over a property to a loaner to help their family & they renege on payments what do you think will happen 

IE : Maybe the loaner will come screamer for the borrower to pay up or he will sell the house

PS : You are only there to use the land you have no right to as to what the owner can with the chanote 

[bmore99]

So when someone signs over a property to a loaner to help their family & they renege on payments what do you think will happen 
IE : Maybe the loaner will come screamer for the borrower to pay up or he will sell the house

Legally the usefruct holder keeps the usefruct land+house. So doesn't matter if he sells it or not. Maybe that's why no one would accept it as a security.

Sent from my SM-A800F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[BEVUP]

& as i said dont bet on it or there must be some way to remove it as the loanster had no problem with a land with a Usufrut on it to loan money after being transfered to him

all done legally & not through banks 

Now i just found out no one is willing to buy from the loaner 

[Khun Jean]

Being married and getting a usefruct is not worth anything. Getting a usufruct from your son though would be great, but alas he is not old enough to do so.

The same thing for a lease.

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Khun Jean

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

OP register a very high (one that surpass the market value two fold) mortgage bond over the property. Then no one will use the property as security.

[gamini]

On 4/11/2017 at 8:04 PM, Peterw42 said:

A blue book does not list or have any thing to do with ownership, a long term tenant can have a blue book. 

and a permanent resident

[khunPer]

On 4/12/2017 at 2:33 PM, BEVUP said:

On 4/12/2017 at 4:41 AM, bmore99 said:

Get yourself the usefruct and you'll be safe. No one will lend money on a land/house with a registered usefruct on it.

Sent from my SM-A800F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Don"t bet on it 

To my knowledge, you cannot get a Usefruct from a minor – and furthermore, looking from the worst point of view, you are worth more dead than alive.

 

Superficies may be better – a foreigner can own a house, but not the land under it – but you cannot make that as long as the land deed is held by a minor.

 

Normally, to my knowledge, a Land Office will not accept anything against the minor land owner's interest, including loan (mortgage), land transfer, and documents like Usefruct and Superficies; however a lease may be possible, if in (financial) interest of the minor, but not all Land Offices will accept it.

 

Concerning Blue House Book. That only list who lives in a house, and has nothing to do with land or house ownership. However, one person will be listed as kind of "Master of the household", meaning that one person can decide who is going to be included in the House Book. That House-master can even be a foreigner, and listed in the Yellow House Book (for foreigners) – that's the case for me, only I can approve, who is going to be listed in the Blue House Book (for Thais only).

Edited April 17, 2017 by khunPer

[BEVUP]

7 minutes ago, khunPer said:

To my knowledge, you cannot get a Usefruct from a minor – and furthermore, looking from the worst point of view, you are worth more dead than alive.

 

Superficies may be better – a foreigner can own a house, but not the land under it – to own a house, but you cannot make that as long as the land deed is owned by a minor.

 

Normally, to my knowledge, a Land Office will not accept anything against the minor land owner's interest, including loan (mortgage), land transfer, and documents like Usefruct and Superficies; however a lease may be possible, if in (financial) interest of the minor, but not all Land Offices will accept it.

 

Concerning Blue House Book. That only list who lives in a house, and has nothing to do with land or house ownership. However, one person will be listed as kind of "Master of the household", meaning that one person can decide who is going to be included in the House Book. That House-master can even be a foreigner, and listed in the Yellow House Book (for foreigners) – that's the case for me, only I can approve, who is going to be listed in the Blue House Book (for Thais only).

Exactly as i was saying the Master of the house is the person responsible for the on goings of the mentioned property 

I can't see an 8 yr old going to pay the rates or ect

& i'm quite sick of all the people who think a Usufrut is the bees knees so i am just waiting for one of you to wake up one day & realize your partner/wife doesn't own the land because they signed it over to a lender to help family even though you are on the Chanote & the only thing you can do is squat on the property with your Usufrut

[janpharma]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:04 PM, Peterw42 said:

A blue book does not list or have any thing to do with ownership, a long term tenant can have a blue book. 

Indeed...and let it be clear for once and for all: the blue book and/or the yellow book has nothing to do with ownership, it only states "who is registered at this address". 

[Khun Jean]

Some mostly Swedish guys&girls are buying 10-20 Million baht houses where the land is leased (30+30)and the house "ownership" document is a tabien Bahn. Wonder how that will end.

So many shady things still going on it is ridiculous.