Denied entry (TR) at Suvarnabhumi - no stamp - options?

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

The 20k baht should never be asked for when entering on re-entry permit issued for an extension of stay based upon marriage. The 20k baht requirement really only applies to visa and visa exempt entries.

I always thought this was the case, until that guy in formerly-friendly Pedang Besar was forced to have his wife go fetch it to enter, then the "Married to a Thai" person hassled at Swampy this week (though he did get in), plus an ED visa person denied entry on re-entry permit for not having it awhile back- it seems like a means of denial they can pull out at any time if they feel like it. 

 

I would carry it just to be sure, and could come in handy if some problem with electronic-money occurred, in any case.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I always thought this was the case, until that guy in formerly-friendly Pedang Besar was forced to have his wife go fetch it to enter, then the "Married to a Thai" person hassled at Swampy this week (though he did get in), plus an ED visa person denied entry on re-entry permit for not having it awhile back- it seems like a means of denial they can pull out at any time if they feel like it. 

 

I would carry it just to be sure, and could come in handy if some problem with electronic-money occurred, in any case.

I think the one at Pedang Besar was doing a border hop with a non-o visa.  

A re-entry permit for an extension based upon attending school is not the same as one based upon marriage, retirement or working. Those require financial proof or a minimum salary to get.

[thaiman]

On 4/14/2017 at 10:17 AM, Thaidream said:

They could have offered to let him use the ATM to withdraw the funds- instead, the one officer insulted the tourist and that is really beyond the scope of their authority. 

Thais dislike foreigners.  Always have always will.  Now that Thailand is prosperous they flex their muscles and usually show disdain when holding authoritative positions. 

20-30 years ago Thais were very welcoming because they were poor.

Don't hate the players, hate the game.  The game is globalization and the opening of developing economies.  Don't blame the Thais, blame the 1st world nations who spoiled the Thais.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

You should have 20K Baht upon entry with a Non-O - same as a TR.  This is the case with a re-entry on a Non-O extension - same as a Multi-Entry Non-O.  Bottom line, every time you enter Thailand they can ask to see the money. 

 

But, based on reports, the extent and frequency of being hassled is greatly reduced on a Non-O vs a TR.  Most people on those visas are never questioned.  Just put 20K Baht in travelers checks, keep it with you, and you are set.  If they get lost or stolen, the money is refunded - you only lose the fee to purchase them. 

"Bottom line, every time you enter Thailand they can ask to see the money"

 

Seems like the average Joe tourist, who got no bloody idea about this 20K BS in Thai currency meeting an immigration officer in a bad mood can face this problem when arriving here.  Airlines, travel companies and travel magazines should warn tourists planing to visit Thailand about this. Also in how many countries can you find 20.000 THB in cash? Most foreign banks does not have THB, it's not exactly an world currency. (travelers been refused entry to Thailand even if they had cash in other currencies than Thai Baht with them)

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by HiSoLowSoNoSo

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

"Bottom line, every time you enter Thailand they can ask to see the money"

 

Seems like the average Joe tourist, who got no bloody idea about this 20K BS in Thai currency meeting an immigration officer in a bad mood can face this problem when arriving here.  Airlines, travel companies and travel magazines should warn tourists planing to visit Thailand about this. Also in how many countries can you find 20.000 THB in cash? Most foreign banks does not have THB, it's not exactly an world currency. (travelers been refused entry to Thailand even if they had cash in other currencies than Thai Baht with them)

 

It can be equivalent in a convertible currency or travelers checks.   I agree there should be a warning given to those who travel here with any frequency or duration.  Those coming once per-year for a week are unlikely to be questioned.

Correcting my assumption - UJ makes a good point that 1-year extensions of stay (Marriage or Retirement) require proof of funds (or agent-payoffs), so those using re-entry permits on these extensions may not be asked to show the cash upon entry.    OTOH, when you have IOs who think that Thais who marry Farang are, essentially, "traitors" (and/or other expletives I'll skip), and think they should leave Thailand and live in Farangland - who knows what could happen.  Look how they treat Thai citizens who return with foreign passports - even children - like they are Traitors.  It is sad.   But keep in mind, these attitudes are held by a small fraction of the Thai population. 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

It can be equivalent in a convertible currency or travelers checks.   I agree there should be a warning given to those who travel here with any frequency or duration.  Those coming once per-year for a week are unlikely to be questioned.

Correcting my assumption - UJ makes a good point that 1-year extensions of stay (Marriage or Retirement) require proof of funds (or agent-payoffs), so those using re-entry permits on these extensions may not be asked to show the cash upon entry.    OTOH, when you have IOs who think that Thais who marry Farang are, essentially, "traitors" (and/or other expletives I'll skip), and think they should leave Thailand and live in Farangland - who knows what could happen.  Look how they treat Thai citizens who return with foreign passports - even children - like they are Traitors.  It is sad.   But keep in mind, these attitudes are held by a small fraction of the Thai population. 

Yes it is very sad when you meet Thai officials with attitudes against western visitors, seems to happen more often lately, it was not common in the 80's or in the 90's.

 

 

[Los Luver]

In December 2016, I recall reading in Thai newspaper that the Government, after working different solutions on how to increase the number of quality visitors to Los and with quality they meant people who use significant amounts of money. The Gov. decided to ease different visas for visitors who wish stay longer and at the same time they decided to crack down on "visa run" people as they are people who don't bring benefits to the national economy as it's wished.

New passport won't help as they probably have made some notes. They have computers

[rickudon]

If you are under 50, there can be no doubt that the visa/stay situation is becoming more of a minefield. And in truth, those who stay more than 6 months a year in Thailand are not really tourists. Recent changes/stricter enforcement has forced more people to get tourist visas rather than exemptions, so tourist visas are also getting more critical treatment, there have been numerous reports now of people on repeat tourist visas in under one year having problems. I'm sure that most still don't get a problem, but it is an ongoing risk.

 

The linked thread about someone on a marriage visa with a previous numerous tourist visas is perhaps an indicator of the next area for the screws to be tightened up - marriage visas (and extensions?). Because one way around these problems for long term tourists is to get married. So Immigration will be assuming more fake marriages. As if we didn't already have enough hoops to jump through, what with  photographs on the bed with the wife every year, i wonder what will be the next test .....

[JayBird]

4 hours ago, thaiman said:

Thais dislike foreigners.  Always have always will.  Now that Thailand is prosperous they flex their muscles and usually show disdain when holding authoritative positions. 

20-30 years ago Thais were very welcoming because they were poor.

Don't hate the players, hate the game.  The game is globalization and the opening of developing economies.  Don't blame the Thais, blame the 1st world nations who spoiled the Thais.

I don't think Thais dislike foreigners.  I think Immigration dislikes foreigners.  Or perhaps, more aptly, they presume anyone who comes here for any length of time more than 30 days a year is up to no good.

 

Aside from Immigration, everyone else is perfectly normal to foreigners.  (Although some in the touristy areas/trades look at foreigners as walking cash machines to be conned/tricked out of as much money as possible).

 

The average joe on the street does not seem to care at all one way or another :)

[JayBird]

1 hour ago, rickudon said:

If you are under 50, there can be no doubt that the visa/stay situation is becoming more of a minefield. And in truth, those who stay more than 6 months a year in Thailand are not really tourists. Recent changes/stricter enforcement has forced more people to get tourist visas rather than exemptions, so tourist visas are also getting more critical treatment, there have been numerous reports now of people on repeat tourist visas in under one year having problems. I'm sure that most still don't get a problem, but it is an ongoing risk.

 

The linked thread about someone on a marriage visa with a previous numerous tourist visas is perhaps an indicator of the next area for the screws to be tightened up - marriage visas (and extensions?). Because one way around these problems for long term tourists is to get married. So Immigration will be assuming more fake marriages. As if we didn't already have enough hoops to jump through, what with  photographs on the bed with the wife every year, i wonder what will be the next test .....

I find it some what ironic that the Thai Passport is being treated as if it were as coveted as an American Passport (or Green Card).  Whereas marrying an American to get a green card is (was) a popular thing to do (I believe there was even a movie named after this).  I'm unsure how many people marry a thai person for the passport (or visa permission).

 

And given the cost of a Thai wedding, isn't it cheaper to just get a TE visa?

 

As for what's next, well there was this custom ages ago where they would wish to witness that the marriage was indeed copulated, so you will need to show proof of this soon.  Sadly in obtaining this proof you violate another law so you'll get kicked out for that

 

 

[Lovethailandelite]

3 hours ago, JayBird said:

I don't think Thais dislike foreigners.  I think Immigration dislikes foreigners.  Or perhaps, more aptly, they presume anyone who comes here for any length of time more than 30 days a year is up to no good.

 

Aside from Immigration, everyone else is perfectly normal to foreigners.  (Although some in the touristy areas/trades look at foreigners as walking cash machines to be conned/tricked out of as much money as possible).

 

The average joe on the street does not seem to care at all one way or another :)

Thais do not dislike foreigners and neither do immigration. What Immigration are finally disliking are 'Tourists living here' perpetually on Tourist visas and are finally beginning to put a stopper on it. If anybody thinks this is an isolated case you may be surprised by the amount of refusals reported elsewhere on the Internet. Being refused entry and then swapping out your passport for a new one isn't likely going to help you too much anymore. As soon as you arrive with your new passport it will be linked to your old one and your history of entry and exits is still there.
People may wish to be in denial but Thailand is quickly catching up with the rest of the world on immigration matters. Make no mistake that as soon as Cambodia and others that let anybody in now, have there fill, then the same scenario will develop there.
You have to admire the advice from some that if denied at this border, go to such and such a border. Do that anywhere else in the world and you'd either be deported back to the country that issued your passport or you'd find yourself in prison for a spell and then deported.
The days of doing what you like, when you like and how you like are drawing to an end here.
I am interested to see what developments the new 'E visa' system brings when they roll out Phase 1 of it sometime later this year.

[ballzafire]

I think it's time to read the writing on the wall (like I already did a few years back) -- dancing the perma-tourist, visa shuffle in Thailand is not going to be possible much longer without a lot of hassle and expense. It was great fun while it lasted, but now, sadly, a losing strategy.

Time to pack it in and return to your home country and go back to work, until you can qualify for something more longer-term.

And trying to cut corners by arranging a quick marriage or starting a biz might lead to more grief than you expect...

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, rickudon said:

And in truth, those who stay more than 6 months a year in Thailand are not really tourists

If you are going to repeat this oft-quoted arbitrary figure, please quote the Thai statute, law, declaration, etc where a 6-month rule is written.  Please do not refer to an old, defunct police order which only applied to visa-exempts back in 2008. 

 

4 hours ago, JayBird said:

I don't think Thais dislike foreigners.  I think Immigration dislikes foreigners.  Or perhaps, more aptly, they presume anyone who comes here for any length of time more than 30 days a year is up to no good.

 

Aside from Immigration, everyone else is perfectly normal to foreigners.  (Although some in the touristy areas/trades look at foreigners as walking cash machines to be conned/tricked out of as much money as possible).

 

The average joe on the street does not seem to care at all one way or another :)

Actually, the average Thai on the street is DELIGHTED that we are here spending our funds in their businesses.

 

48 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Being refused entry and then swapping out your passport for a new one isn't likely going to help you too much anymore.

Correct to an extent - this certainly will not stop the visa-exempt alert.  But what those IOs "see" in passports seems to affect the probability of being taken aside for "special treatment" - most notably an "ED" visa.  Only if taken aside for additional screening, is the "full report" of all entries and exits pulled up for review - which does indeed have data on previous passports (I speak from experience).

 

37 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

People may wish to be in denial but Thailand is quickly catching up with the rest of the world on immigration matters. Make no mistake that as soon as Cambodia and others that let anybody in now, have there fill, then the same scenario will develop there.

I doubt this, unless irrationality is the goal.  There is no logical reason a country would want to prevent relatively-wealthy** persons from spending foreign-sourced capital into their country.  This is why nearly every other nation in the world, with pay-scales below our own, welcomes us.  Thailand is the exception to the rule - and only recently, due to some irrational impulse in certain circles of government.  At this point, it has not even infected all of Immigration, as there are still some areas where you are greeted with a smile (even on your 10th tourist visa-entry).  What we are witnessing is most similar to cult-like behavior - without any basis in rationality.

 

** relatively-wealthy = spends multiple local-scale monthly-salaries into the economy per-month.

 

43 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

You have to admire the advice from some that if denied at this border, go to such and such a border. Do that anywhere else in the world and you'd either be deported back to the country that issued your passport or you'd find yourself in prison for a spell and then deported.

No - because you are not "banned from entry" - and are breaking no laws by attempting to use your Valid Visa somewhere else.  You simply ran into an IO who is not following the law, and denies you entry without legal cause.  There is no "don't come back for X days/weeks/months" implied or stated in these cases. 

 

The alternative is to appeal the decision on the spot, spend up to 7 days in detention, then let a judge find that there was no cause for denying entry - or back the play of the IO, and deny without cause.  Most of us would prefer spending those days in a guesthouse and en-route to another border-crossing than in detention (at a border-crossing or an airport).

 

45 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The days of doing what you like, when you like and how you like are drawing to an end here.

The days of following the law, and expecting them to do the same may, indeed, be numbered (see the guy on the Marriage Visa who was hassled).  Certainly being treated with dignity and respect is out the window at Thai airports.  But this has nothing to do with "what you like" - its either the law, or it's not.  Having 20K Baht is "the law" for entry on a 60 or 90 day visa - however silly in this day and age.  Its hassling people on an anachronistic technicality - but better play the game, or else. 

[jspill]

I've been here almost 8 years on TR visas. Post #7 by Gilo is solid advice, driving through Nong Khai via the private car lane. With a Laos person. Very effective. 

 

Other hacks - in the queue at passport control look to see if the IO is letting through others that look like long stayers, and how fast that IOs queue is moving. Switch queues if something's amiss. 

 

Google 'Bangkok airport VIP arrival service'. Only 1200 baht for exclusive fast track service, a rep meets you as you step off the plane and 'assists with immigration documents details to ensure that your official entry into Thailand occurs without any delays'. I love (imitating) Thailand Elite!

 

I spent all of 2016 on visa exemptions after 2 years on overstay, so it can be done. Currently on another TR visa from Vietnam.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by jspill

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

If you are going to repeat this oft-quoted arbitrary figure, please quote the Thai statute, law, declaration, etc where a 6-month rule is written.  Please do not refer to an old, defunct police order which only applied to visa-exempts back in 2008. 

 

Actually, the average Thai on the street is DELIGHTED that we are here spending our funds in their businesses.

 

Correct to an extent - this certainly will not stop the visa-exempt alert.  But what those IOs "see" in passports seems to affect the probability of being taken aside for "special treatment" - most notably an "ED" visa.  Only if taken aside for additional screening, is the "full report" of all entries and exits pulled up for review - which does indeed have data on previous passports (I speak from experience).

 

I doubt this, unless irrationality is the goal.  There is no logical reason a country would want to prevent relatively-wealthy** persons from spending foreign-sourced capital into their country.  This is why nearly every other nation in the world, with pay-scales below our own, welcomes us.  Thailand is the exception to the rule - and only recently, due to some irrational impulse in certain circles of government.  At this point, it has not even infected all of Immigration, as there are still some areas where you are greeted with a smile (even on your 10th tourist visa-entry).  What we are witnessing is most similar to cult-like behavior - without any basis in rationality.

 

** relatively-wealthy = spends multiple local-scale monthly-salaries into the economy per-month.

 

No - because you are not "banned from entry" - and are breaking no laws by attempting to use your Valid Visa somewhere else.  You simply ran into an IO who is not following the law, and denies you entry without legal cause.  There is no "don't come back for X days/weeks/months" implied or stated in these cases. 

 

The alternative is to appeal the decision on the spot, spend up to 7 days in detention, then let a judge find that there was no cause for denying entry - or back the play of the IO, and deny without cause.  Most of us would prefer spending those days in a guesthouse and en-route to another border-crossing than in detention (at a border-crossing or an airport).

 

The days of following the law, and expecting them to do the same may, indeed, be numbered (see the guy on the Marriage Visa who was hassled).  Certainly being treated with dignity and respect is out the window at Thai airports.  But this has nothing to do with "what you like" - its either the law, or it's not.  Having 20K Baht is "the law" for entry on a 60 or 90 day visa - however silly in this day and age.  Its hassling people on an anachronistic technicality - but better play the game, or else. 

Far too much there for me to breakdown. Fact is, they can and will do what they want and how they want to do it.
If you think that the days of living here on Tourist visas are about to continue, IMO, you are in for a big shock very shortly. I put a press cutting up regarding changes in August and the scrutinising of passports for those living here on the wrong visas. The idea was of course poo pooed. Seems it could very well be ramping up nicely for the August grand finale.

[jspill]

3 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Far too much there for me to breakdown. Fact is, they can and will do what they want and how they want to do it.
If you think that the days of living here on Tourist visas are about to continue, IMO, you are in for a big shock very shortly. I put a press cutting up regarding changes in August and the scrutinising of passports for those living here on the wrong visas. The idea was of course poo pooed. Seems it could very well be ramping up nicely for the August grand finale.

That press cutting was debunked several times. It referred to the Aug 2014 order on back to back visa exempts.

Edited April 15, 2017 by jspill

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Far too much there for me to breakdown. Fact is, they can and will do what they want and how they want to do it.
If you think that the days of living here on Tourist visas are about to continue, IMO, you are in for a big shock very shortly. I put a press cutting up regarding changes in August and the scrutinising of passports for those living here on the wrong visas. The idea was of course poo pooed. Seems it could very well be ramping up nicely for the August grand finale.

 

They could, of course, change the rules at any time.  It would be a terrible shame if they harmed millions of Thai people by cutting off the source of their incomes (foreign-sourced funds from Farangs), and parting them from their loved ones - but sometimes governments don't act in the interest of their own people.  We can always hope for the best, and that rationality will prevail.

[Lovethailandelite]

7 minutes ago, jspill said:

That press cutting was debunked several times. It referred to the Aug 2014 order on back to back visa exempts.

Here we go again! It was absolutely nothing to do with 2014 but I really cannot be bothered to argue because I just don't care as none of this will effect me in anyway. Of course, nobody is getting denied entry, its all a story and not really happening. Debunk what you want. Lets see what develops this year so I can say 'I told you so'

Edited April 15, 2017 by Lovethailandelite

[jspill]

Just now, Lovethailandelite said:

Here we go again! It was absolutely nothing to do with 2014 but  really cannot be bothered to argue because I just don't care as none of this will effect me in anyway. Of course, nobody is getting denied entry, its all a story and not really happening. Debunk what you want. Lets see what develops this year so  can say 'I told you so'

An uptick in reports doesn't indicate any systemic crackdown. This has happened many times in recent decades, an uptick of denials, then a drop, it correlates to the military government. It was actually even harder than today under a military government many years ago. So explain that. 

 

People have been telling me I can't keep doing what I'm doing, since I joined the forum in 2010... I didn't listen and enjoyed living out my 20s in Bangkok, living the dream.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, jspill said:

An uptick in reports doesn't indicate any systemic crackdown. This has happened many times in recent decades, an uptick of denials, then a drop, it correlates to the military government. It was actually even harder than today under a military government many years ago. So explain that. 

 

People have been telling me I can't keep doing what I'm doing, since I joined the forum in 2010... I didn't listen and enjoyed living out my 20s in Bangkok, living the dream.

I never at one time, ever left the bar or hotel to get a visa or an exempt entry. Probably best to not try and convince me 'How it used to be'. You haven't been here long enough to give me a lesson in the ways of getting a visa over the years. I will tell you now, 100% you and others have the biggest shock to the system coming, more than you ever dreamt possible. Not to worry, I've heard Cambodia is nice at Christmas time? Not my cup of Tea but I won't be needing it. 

[jspill]

You seem awfully emotionally invested in the visa status of others. I won't get into a back and forth let's not derail the thread. I suspect a previously banned member on a new handle. It was harder under a previous military government though, and there's no evidence of a systemic crackdown now. Upticks in denials are commonplace. Just carry 20k, use the fast lane service or car lane at Nong Khai. And see the many tips dotted around Thaivisa by those members that want to help others.

Edited April 15, 2017 by jspill

[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, jspill said:

You seem awfully emotionally invested in the visa status of others. I won't get into a back and forth let's not derail the thread. I suspect a previously banned member on a new handle. It was harder under a previous military government though, and there's no evidence of a systemic crackdown now. Upticks in denials are commonplace. Just carry 20k, use the fast lane service or car lane at Nong Khai. And see the many tips dotted around Thaivisa by those members that want to help others.

Sorry? Why ever would I be a previously banned member? You people just cannot take the reality of what is going on. As I have said, I really couldn't care less what others do. I really want to say how I know what I know but I really cannot and will not go in to that. I will just leave you and others in your world of denial and visa scams.
Have a wonderful evening. 

[ballzafire]

I agree with the cautionary comments here. The trend is not good. And it is not just Thailand that is cracking down. Other countries of interest in SEA are also tightening, too, as well as some popular Central and South American locales (namely Costa Rica, Ecuador, etc).

But, if you want to continue to play the visa game, and have the funds to do so, go right ahead. Just remember who writes the playbook...

Edited April 15, 2017 by ballzafire

[scubascuba3]

The OP should just get a Thailand Elite visa. His problem would be solved and he could come and go as he pleased with no hassle. 

Yes, he could also not bother with visas and don't leave Thailand, apparently there are loads of guys doing that. So if the authorities don't allow legit visa methods and payment then don't bother at all.

[scubascuba3]

It can be equivalent in a convertible currency or travelers checks.  . 

So, you don't need to bother with 20,000 baht but equivalent USD,GBP,EUR etc is sufficient?

[scubascuba3]

Yes, they can pull up your whole history, though this is not shown on the initial screen by the first IO you deal with. 
 

So, if you have a new passport (which has a new number such as UK) somehow their records are linked and they can see the old passport history?

[reenatinnakor]

First time I've heard of the 20k rule! I never ever bring cash in, I only wire monies in monthly to my gf and my joint account. Can I login and show them my back account?

But I've never been stopped at immigration... I have about 2 tourist visas a year and over 4 exempt stamps. I guess I need to be careful now.

Sent from my LG-H990 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[Lovethailandelite]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

So, if you have a new passport (which has a new number such as UK) somehow their records are linked and they can see the old passport history?

Yes. The first time you enter Thailand with your new passport it will be 'linked' with any previous passports you have held to enter and exit Thailand. A new passport does not wipe or hide your previous history from there systems. Your local immigration has access to the same system of entry and exits etc. I have personally seen my own history for current and previous passports at Jomtien Immigration.

[Lovethailandelite]

4 hours ago, reenatinnakor said:

First time I've heard of the 20k rule! I never ever bring cash in, I only wire monies in monthly to my gf and my joint account. Can I login and show them my back account?

But I've never been stopped at immigration... I have about 2 tourist visas a year and over 4 exempt stamps. I guess I need to be careful now.

Sent from my LG-H990 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

If they ask for 20k they they want to see it in hard cash or travellers cheques of one currency or another. Bank accounts or credit cards are not acceptable and a reason for refusal of entry.