226 died, 2,457 injured in four days of Songkran festival

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Do you honestly think that obtaining a license would make them less stupid?

All that would be done there would be a case of licensing the stupidity, which of course would be more face for them, having a licence for being stupid, 'Now i can be stupid and I'm legaly stupid.

 

Where are you getting the licensing discussion from?  That wasn't discussed in any of the immediately prior posts, AFAIK, and certainly not by me.

 

[Moonlover]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Your quoted material in the prior post, Moonlover, is from BigDaddy, not from me, as written in your post. He's the one who wrote about not being surprised.

 

Ah ' I see what you mean. Sorry, I should have gone back to the original poster. My mistake.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Where are you getting the licensing discussion from?  That wasn't discussed in any of the immediately prior posts, AFAIK, and certainly not by me.

 

I wasn't referring to you! It was a general observation. excuse me for believing that on this forum a little amount of free expression was allowed.Why would you assume that i meant you? do you have a paranoia problem?

 

[TumblinDice]

Viewer discretion is advised...

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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

I wasn't referring to you! It was a general observation. excuse me for believing that on this forum a little amount of free expression was allowed.Why would you assume that i meant you? do you have a paranoia problem?

 

When your out of left field comment immediately follows several of my posts, and there's no mention of licensing in the couple of proceeding posts, then yes, the kind of implication is that you might have been referring to me for some reason.

 

[Khon Kaen Dave]

44 minutes ago, Harold the Great said:

As a farang I would not dare involve myself in the Song Kran insanity as I believe if an incident occurred and a scooter ever wiped out I would be either beaten to death on the street, jailed or ousted out of the country after I was rapped for everything I own including any bank accounts here. Not smart to participate in anything locally. 

Harold

 you are correct,and when we lived in Patts, we hated opening our bars due to the 'craziness' of the  the festival which is SongKran. Butit was a case of bums on seats and it was a profitable time for us. But, i hated it, every minute. The  glazed look of the guys withthe big power guns, made them look like something out a 'mob scene in a Frankenstien movie. We have since moved back to my wife's village and these past 2 years experienced Songkran as it should be celebrated.The songkrany in patts and the like is felang created and inspired, its madness.Where we are, its gentle, we sing and dance to bands on the stage, we have beer and its a local community thing.The beautiful village girls come down and have fun and we go sailing on the lake.

The last day is celebrated by a big market do, with traditional dancing and music, ther is a market and we sit in a small eaterie, drink beer, eat BBQ chicken and watch Thai life go by. If you really want to get wet, the local fire station will oblige by sending an engine down and turning on the spry jet. Its great fun. You can keep Patts and everything that goes with it. Dangerous, madness and death.I am glad i am where i am.

Sawadee bee mai.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

When your out of left field comment immediately follows several of my posts, and there's no mention of licensing in the couple of proceeding posts, then yes, the kind of implication is that you might have been referring to me for some reason.

 

Yes, well, i wasn't. if i was i would have let you know it."out of left field" by that expression, do i assume you are American? and, before you pick up on that, i have lots of American friends, having lived and worked in Georgia and South Dakota for many years.So just take it that i wasn't referring to you.You jump too easily, has that always been a problem for you?

Anyway I'm not really interested whether it is or not.

Just have a good evening and enjoy the rest of Songkran

Sawadee bee mai

[Khon Kaen Dave]

22 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

When your out of left field comment immediately follows several of my posts, and there's no mention of licensing in the couple of proceeding posts, then yes, the kind of implication is that you might have been referring to me for some reason.

 

Furthermore, as the great Damon Runyon used to say. I now realise my mistake. In my post i said 'Do YOU really think" i should have replaced the word "you" with "does anybody think"

For that i apologise.I was a bit quick off the mark too.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Furthermore, as the great Damon Runyon used to say. I now realise my mistake. In my post i said 'Do YOU really think" i should have replaced the word "you" with "does anybody think"

For that i apologise.I was a bit quick off the mark too.

 

Agreed. That YOU was part of the reason for my original query to YOU.

 

Perhaps "You jump too easily, has that always been a problem for you?" 

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Someone else earlier posted some info suggesting that the road deaths during Song Kran were no worse than other days of the year in Thailand, or the average day.

 

I see Richard Barrow's article linked above has just the opposite assessment of the statistics:

 

 

 

And the daily death toll for other individual Song Kran days last year according to Richard's article ranged from 45 to 79  -- well beyond the earlier daily road death averages Richard cited.

Well, I was the one who found this article, but I have to confess I hadn't read down that far. And I am somewhat baffled by it.

 

• Quote ''Between October 2013 and September 2014, there were a total of 6,985 deaths on the roads in Thailand. This averages at 19 deaths per day''.

This figure, 6,985 deaths in one year is way below anything I and just about everyone else on this forum have ever come across.

 

Something around 24,000 27,000 seem to be the accepted norm. The WHO is usually the accredited source.

 

You're quite right, many contributors have pointed out that there is little difference between the daily rates, holiday or no holiday, including me So I am rather puzzled by it.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Moonlover

[utalkin2me]

How many of the deaths were people on motorbikes is a stat I'd like to know. 

[AloisAmrein]

The slaughtering on Thai roads continues. Every day 71 dead by traffic accidents. Only Nigeria ist more dangerous. Government unable or unwilling to improve the situation. Last year more than 26'000 road fatalities (not counting the injured, only the dead) in Thailand, numbers increasing every year.

[Jing Joe]

8 hours ago, Harold the Great said:

 I love this country and its people yet the behaviour and tolerance for bad behaviors knowing in advance its going to happen I can't understand.  My Thai wife is the one pushing me for us to leave here due to so much of this bad behavior in general. We have tried to help the community in may ways and I'm really disappointed. 

Does anyone have any positive suggestions?

Well said Harold.   My thoughts are - when there is;-

 Such a tolerable high level B.A.C of approx 0.1% +  Mai pen rai so ingrained + Cop corruption + little speed regulation + few B.A.C checks + few drug tests + traffic congestion + insufficient road rule policing + Jai Rohn resulting in road rage + more than two on bikes + general overloading  + unroadworthiness (especially bald tyres) + not wearing seat belts + not wearing helmets + unlicensed + ???    =  MADNESS as others have put it.

I'm always striving to be positive Harold but with these observations above, how many element in the formula would need to be removed to start to make a difference in the lives of  Thais whom I have found to be generally lovely people?

 B.A.C. tests have increased resulting in impoundment of so many cars that's probably tough by world standards but a good positive start. What next? 

Relieved my sister in law safely made her trip from C.M. back to Bkk. well before the holiday.  Khorp Khun Pachau.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Jing Joe

[wakeupplease]

So glad i sold my lovely  T car. today here roads empty and no oversized exhausts or motor bikes racing up the roads and the death rate on the roads just maybe 3 to 5 a day, here they even flash their lights to let you in or pass and say thanks, Hey civilization feels like home. Wake up Mr Please where are you, and not a corrupt copper in sight Fresh air smells good!!!! This lot here know how to drive safely and we can buy a sim card without a finger print being taken. FREEDOM smells so good, sorry how is your freedom coming along??????????????????. What do I miss? UM Dam mosquitoes and many friends, thank god for Line with a VPN,

[pentap]

Why must water be thrown, especially at motor-cyclists!? Is it not a fact that water is a very special and needy commodity, In more ways than one, in such parts of the world?

Songkran can be, not could be, a very enjoyable and safely conducted event. But! Unfortunately it comes across to me , more like: 'all for one and one for all, with a lack of education and a high dose of stupidity mixed in.

Two days ago, I was invited to a party at a local police station. When I arrived, there were two bottles of whiskey, plus beer, on a table! Don't get me wrong, I like a drink, but I knew the risk I was taking should I indulge, but more importantly for me, to see such alcoholic drinks, within a police station, when a party was about to commence, made me think twice, and so I made my excuses to leave. My point is this: those in authority, plus teachers, parents etc, should all act accordingly in assisting their home-land to progress in a positive, law abiding and educational way, which sadly seems to be lacking.

A third world progressive nation trying to act as a first world nation, but as always, showing its true colours, with a lack of disciple, education, law and order, respect and care for both the environment and fellow man-kind.

Sadly, T.I.T




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[PatOngo]

9 hours ago, Harold the Great said:

The absolute madness is well madness. I live in Phuket and have lived here for years. Every year we, me and my Thai wife stay in doors and plan in advance not to leave our villa for days before and after the holiday. The lack of intelligence, common sense and respect truly challenges me as to the offset of this wonderful place and its people in general vs the regulatory western world way of life. I love this country and its people yet the behaviour and tolerance for bad behaviors knowing in advance its going to happen I can't understand.  My Thai wife is the one pushing me for us to leave here due to so much of this bad behavior in general. We have tried to help the community in may ways and I'm really disappointed. 

Does anyone have any positive suggestions?

 

Yes, leave them to their own devices, you won't change them!

[dazzz]

14 hours ago, Pungdo said:

I was told a while back that if you make it to a hospital and die there and don't die on the road, then you are not counted as being part of the road toll, so just what is the real figure ??

 

pretty much correct . If you die in hospital it does not get recorded as a road death . Some old guy got killed outside my house once riding without lights the wrong way . He was obviously dead and was taken to the temple and burned the next day with no ambulance or police involved . The figure will be a lot higher than stated

[newnative]

And, Pattaya still has 4 more days.

[bazza73]

16 hours ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

I will never fully comprehend this tribal yearly culling on the roads. A most remarkable nation.

Look on it as Darwinian natural selection in operation.

 

Unfortunately, the weeding out of the most stupid takes quite a few innocents with it as well.

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, dazzz said:

pretty much correct . If you die in hospital it does not get recorded as a road death . Some old guy got killed outside my house once riding without lights the wrong way . He was obviously dead and was taken to the temple and burned the next day with no ambulance or police involved . The figure will be a lot higher than stated

As said before thus is incorrect...all deaths are recorded and it is down to who uses the stats how they are interpreted....

[bazza73]

It seems the tourist traps of Pattaya,  Phuket,  Bangkok and Chiang Mai are the worst affected by excesses.

 

I retreated to a village outside Chiang Rai, and it appears to be fairly restrained here. Daily visits to the temple by the villagers.

[dinsdale]

17 hours ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Are these the true numbers? (Just can't trust the local news any longer)

Probably true, the thing is how they determine road fatalities. If the person/persons die at the scene or within a 24hr period of the accident they are classified as a road fatality. Outside of that 24hr period they are not. I have been told this by senior doctors, doctors, senior police, police and Thai friends.

[dazzz]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

As said before thus is incorrect...all deaths are recorded and it is down to who uses the stats how they are interpreted....

recorded by who . When a neighbours brother died in his sleep after whisky i took him to the amphoe office where they asked how he died  . No police or hospital involved . He told them it was a motorbike accident .I know of a few people who have died in my village with no police or hospital involved then relatives  have to go to the government office to report the death

[Yme]

18 hours ago, tso310 said:

Years ago I'm sure road deaths were counted only at the scene of the accident. That may have changed.

 

I believe it now includes any death related to a road crash irrespective of how long after. We saw the figures for the second day amended on the the third da due to two deaths from injuries.

[Ramen087]

24 minutes ago, dazzz said:

recorded by who . When a neighbours brother died in his sleep after whisky i took him to the amphoe office where they asked how he died  . No police or hospital involved . He told them it was a motorbike accident .I know of a few people who have died in my village with no police or hospital involved then relatives  have to go to the government office to report the death

The 226 fatality number comes from a Thai newspaper that rhymes with 'The Fangkok Host'. Do you really think this number is all that inaccurate?  Your doubt is most likely a matter of denial of actuality given the hundreds of videos in the public domain that show insane methods or driving and riding on non-holidays.

[hobz]

It's a hard task to make the traffic police do their jobs.

 

But there's one thing that is easy to implement:

 

Increase fines and penalties, 200 for no license??? Should be more like 5000 and not allowed to continue driving. 

 

 

200 fine for no license tells it all. They are just not taking safety seriously.

 

Other stuff like tracking repeat offenders and taking their license or setting up cameras or making the police clean or having harder driving license tests. Thats all hard to implement. I mean, it takes some effort and work... But to increase the fine from 200 for not driving a license, that's as easy as sending a tweet using the power of the dictator.

 

 

Some people say "they are unable or unwilling" i think the 200 fine for no license on motorbike proves that they are simply unwilling. And thats way worse than being unable, i would go as far as saying that the people in power have blood on their hands. Unable and unwilling is the difference between manslaughter and murder. Looks like murderers running this country. What a suprise.

 

 

[Basil B]

21 hours ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Are these the true numbers? (Just can't trust the local news any longer)

Probably not, they may not take into account those who die in hospital particularly days afters.

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, hobz said:

It's a hard task to make the traffic police do their jobs.

 

But there's one thing that is easy to implement:

 

Increase fines and penalties, 200 for no license??? Should be more like 5000 and not allowed to continue driving. 

 

 

200 fine for no license tells it all. They are just not taking safety seriously.

 

Other stuff like tracking repeat offenders and taking their license or setting up cameras or making the police clean or having harder driving license tests. Thats all hard to implement. I mean, it takes some effort and work... But to increase the fine from 200 for not driving a license, that's as easy as sending a tweet using the power of the dictator.

 

 

Some people say "they are unable or unwilling" i think the 200 fine for no license on motorbike proves that they are simply unwilling. And thats way worse than being unable, i would go as far as saying that the people in power have blood on their hands. Unable and unwilling is the difference between manslaughter and murder. Looks like murderers running this country. What a suprise.

 

 

Are there dedicated traffic units?

 

Could do with setting up dedicated traffic police units, with the equipment to do the job.

 

And Yes, tougher penalties, in the UK it is one offence not to have a licence or have an expired licence, driving while disqualified is a lot more serious offence and offenders may end up in prison, and one does not even have had to have a licence to be a disqualified driver, a national data base with instant access for traffic enforcement officers with toting up of offences leading to an automatic ban.

 

Also not having a driving licence should negate any insurance so that could be another offence.

[Artisi]

22 hours ago, Basil B said:

Compare that that to the UK (Population UK 64m, Thailand 66m)

In 2013 there were 1,713 road fatalities average less than 5 a day, yet in 4 days of Thai madness more than 50 a day...

But farang don't understand Thainess.. 

[DMC1]

Are there dedicated traffic units?
 
Could do with setting up dedicated traffic police units, with the equipment to do the job.
 
And Yes, tougher penalties, in the UK it is one offence not to have a licence or have an expired licence, driving while disqualified is a lot more serious offence and offenders may end up in prison, and one does not even have had to have a licence to be a disqualified driver, a national data base with instant access for traffic enforcement officers with toting up of offences leading to an automatic ban.
 
Also not having a driving licence should negate any insurance so that could be another offence.

It's all nice suggesting this and that but unfortunately this isn't the West and if it was like the West most of us probably wouldn't be living here. All these nice laws we have in the West have consequences, such as cost of living, taxes etc.

We can have a good rant but nothing much will change in our lifetimes.

Did any of you catch the Thai news this morning? A couple more Songkran incidents where people ended up kicking the sh** out of each other. One incident was in Uthai Thani where two girls were repeatedly assaulted and kicked in the head by Thai males whilst lay on the floor! The other one was a brawl between rival water throwers in pick up trucks!