Do you think Trump will be impeached or forced to resign?

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

If I hold anyone in contempt it is the DNC for allowing it to be co-opted by her. She is just doing what people like her do.

You come across as one of those who's hatred of HRC has made them blind to the dangers of having a self-serving incompetent in the White House.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, amvet said:

Do you think it appropriate for the special council to investigate the taxes of every person who worked for Trump now and up to, say 3 or four years ago?   Is that part of an investigation into collusion? How about Trump real estate deals 20 years ago?  Is that part of Russian collusion? 

 

If the investigation is used to determine Russian interference aided by Trump I'm in agreement with you.  However I think my impression will be born out when I say it is a fishing expedition to dig up any dirt on Trump that is available and smear him till the public cries for a hanging or Trump gets upset and quits.  He's is not the most mature person I've ever seen. 

I think it's not only appropriate but necessary for Mueller to look into evidence suggesting that the Trump family business has significant financial ties, and possibly significant debts, to the Russian government or well connected oligarchs.

[Jingthing]

Interesting theory about Mueller's strategy. The most powerful man in Washington now.

Quote

Robert Mueller’s Brilliant Strategy for Outmaneuvering Trump Pardons

The president cannot save Paul Manafort.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/11/robert_mueller_s_brilliant_strategy_for_outmaneuvering_trump_pardons.html

[sirineou]

Ad running in the US networks calling for Trump;s impeachment

 

[CaptHaddock]

2 hours ago, amvet said:

Do you think it appropriate for the special council to investigate the taxes of every person who worked for Trump now and up to, say 3 or four years ago?   Is that part of an investigation into collusion? How about Trump real estate deals 20 years ago?  Is that part of Russian collusion? 

 

If the investigation is used to determine Russian interference aided by Trump I'm in agreement with you.  However I think my impression will be born out when I say it is a fishing expedition to dig up any dirt on Trump that is available and smear him till the public cries for a hanging or Trump gets upset and quits.  He's is not the most mature person I've ever seen. 

You mean "special counsel."  Yes, the special counsel should investigate not only tax returns, but banking activity and other financial history of anyone suspected of conspiring with foreign governments since those receiving such payments, which are not reported to the US govt, are especially likely to engage in money-laundering and tax evasion as Mueller has charge Manafort and Gates with.

 

Mueller's mandate from the Dept. of Justice is to investigate all the issues around Russian involvement in the 2016 election.  It specifically charges him to investigate any other crimes that he comes up in the course of his investigation. 

 

Flynn, Trump and all of Trump's family will be scrutinized by Mueller with the same thoroughness.  I expect all of them to be charged along with other small fish.  Trump will probably be named an unindicted co-conspirator with a recommendation of impeachment. 

 

 

[boomerangutang]

9 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Yeah, they must have learned the "Deplorables" technique in Dale Carnegies advanced class. I do want to thank you for the simile free post however.

HRC said it one time.  'Deplorable' is the nicest way to describe Trump fans. Plus, she didn't say 'all', she said 'some.'    Some Trump fans are also mass murderers.  Would you consider calling mass murderers 'deplorable'?   

 

Note:  about a dozen people overheard Tillerson calling Trump 'a phucking moron.'  How does that fit with Trump fans?  Which is worse, 'deplorable' or the phrase Tillerson used? 

 

3 hours ago, amvet said:

Do you think it appropriate for the special council to investigate the taxes of every person......

Every prez candidate since the 1970's has voluntarily released their tax forms. Most did it for multiple years.   A week after Trump announced his candidacy, he was asked "why won't you release your tax form?"

 

Trump responded, "I would love to release my taxes, believe me."

 

It's hard to keep count, but I believe that's lie # 17,497 from Trump.  Indeed, whenever he tags the phrase, 'believe me' at the end of a statement, you can be sure it's a lie.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, CaptHaddock said:

You mean "special counsel."  Yes, the special counsel should investigate not only tax returns, but banking activity and other financial history of anyone suspected of conspiring with foreign governments since those receiving such payments, which are not reported to the US govt, are especially likely to engage in money-laundering and tax evasion as Mueller has charge Manafort and Gates with.

 

Mueller's mandate from the Dept. of Justice is to investigate all the issues around Russian involvement in the 2016 election.  It specifically charges him to investigate any other crimes that he comes up in the course of his investigation. 

 

Flynn, Trump and all of Trump's family will be scrutinized by Mueller with the same thoroughness.  I expect all of them to be charged along with other small fish.  Trump will probably be named an unindicted co-conspirator with a recommendation of impeachment.

" Trump will probably be named an unindicted co-conspirator with a recommendation of impeachment. "

 

You are probably correct, if Mueller is allowed to finish his investigation.  However the Republican congressmen are so afraid of Trump's base and the possibility of facing a "more Trumpier than thou" opponent in the primary elections that they won't vote for impeachment even if evidence shows the PP tape is real and that Trump is on Putin's payroll.

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

You come across as one of those who's hatred of HRC has made them blind to the dangers of having a self-serving incompetent in the White House.

I'm not blind to the dangers of Trump. No, not at all.  I think the only difference between me and many on this board is that I see the election of someone like Trump as an opportunity to examine how we got here.An opoortunity to build bridges and find common ground because the consequences of not doing so can be catastrophic.

 

I remember how villified Mitt Romney was by the Democrats. The "devil incarnate" "wears magic underwear"; when I'll bet his positions don't differ from HRC's or Obama's by even 5%. That kind of invective and polarization creates a lot of damage to a nation but strong partisans are blind to that.

 

Yeah, Trump's really dangerous. It's the kind of thing that happens when ethical alternatives are absent

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

I'm not blind to the dangers of Trump. No, not at all.  I think the only difference between me and many on this board is that I see the election of someone like Trump as an opportunity to examine how we got here.An opoortunity to build bridges and find common ground because the consequences of not doing so can be catastrophic.

 

I remember how villified Mitt Romney was by the Democrats. The "devil incarnate" "wears magic underwear"; when I'll bet his positions don't differ from HRC's or Obama's by even 5%. That kind of invective and polarization creates a lot of damage to a nation but strong partisans are blind to that.

 

Yeah, Trump's really dangerous. It's the kind of thing that happens when ethical alternatives are absent

You think having the nuclear codes in the hands of a clueless incompetent as an opportunity for reflection?  Most of us think it requires urgent action, with impeachment being the preferred option.

 

I'm curious, do you recall HRC being vilified pretty much from day one as First Lady? 

 

Obstructionism was a tactic started by Newt Gingrich to frustrate the Clinton administration as much as possible.  The Tea Party, with significant support from Fox News, began after Clinton to oppose any attempt at compromise and bipartisan agreements.  Trump, in his endless pursuit of approval and acclaim, is catering to a right-wing base that is becoming increasingly racist and anti-democratic and dragging the Republican Party towards the loony right.  And yet you seem to think it is the Democrats that need fixing.  

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

HRC said it one time.  'Deplorable' is the nicest way to describe Trump fans. Plus, she didn't say 'all', she said 'some.'    Some Trump fans are also mass murderers.  Would you consider calling mass murderers 'deplorable'?   

 

Note:  about a dozen people overheard Tillerson calling Trump 'a phucking moron.'  How does that fit with Trump fans?  Which is worse, 'deplorable' or the phrase Tillerson used? 

 

 

She said you could "put half of Trump supporters in what I call a basket of deplorables". That's about 30 million Americans. The president is supposed to govern on the behalf of all Americans. Everyone who wasn't already committed to voting for HRC was left to wonder if she was talking about them. A very Trump like moment actually except in Trump's case nobody believes he actually believes what he is saying, which ironically, kind of innoculates him in a perverse way. If one had to point to a single thing that lost her the election I believe it was that comment.

 

I agree with Tillerson.

Edited November 5, 2017 by lannarebirth

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

I'm not blind to the dangers of Trump. No, not at all.  I think the only difference between me and many on this board is that I see the election of someone like Trump as an opportunity to examine how we got here.An opoortunity to build bridges and find common ground because the consequences of not doing so can be catastrophic.

 

I remember how villified Mitt Romney was by the Democrats. The "devil incarnate" "wears magic underwear"; when I'll bet his positions don't differ from HRC's or Obama's by even 5%. That kind of invective and polarization creates a lot of damage to a nation but strong partisans are blind to that.

 

Yeah, Trump's really dangerous. It's the kind of thing that happens when ethical alternatives are absent

Nonsense. Follow the money. Romney wanted a massive tax cut for the wealthy. Obamacare closely followed the model of Romneycare yet Romney condemned Obamacare. I repeat: Follow the Money.

And as far as I can tell it was Jeb Bush who said Democrats were calling Romney the "devil incarnate", not democrats. And any alleged villification of Romney was as nothing compared to what the right was saying about Obama.

Edited November 5, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[lannarebirth]

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Nonsense. Follow the money. Romney wanted a massive tax cut for the wealthy. Obamacare closely followed the model of Romneycare yet Romney condemned Obamacare. I repeat: Follow the Money.

And as far as I can tell it was Jeb Bush who said Democrats were calling Romney the "devil incarnate", not democrats. And any alleged villification of Romney was as nothing compared to what the right was saying about Obama.

Follow the money, indeed:

 

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/unh/stock-chart?intraday=off&timeframe=10y&splits=off&earnings=off&movingaverage=None&lowerstudy=volume&comparison=off&index=&drilldown=off

[craigt3365]

The first (of many?) to be thrown under the bus?  Trump plays dirty, that's for sure.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/04/politics/donald-trump-paul-manafort-2016-election/index.html

Quote

Trump says he dropped Manafort from campaign due to 'potential conflicts' with 'certain nations'

 

[Srikcir]

6 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

The first (of many?) to be thrown under the bus?  Trump plays dirty, that's for sure.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/04/politics/donald-trump-paul-manafort-2016-election/index.html

 

Is there anyone in the Trump administration that doesn't have ties to Russia and Putin?

Now it's Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross who has financial ties to Putin's son-in-law. It appears that Ross was not entirely forthcoming (translation: lied) about his financial dealings during his confirmation process.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-report-commerce-head-has-stake-in-firm-tied-to-putin-orbit-2017-11

Was Ross a Trump vetting failure or another accomplice to stacking a pro-Russian administration?

[craigt3365]

11 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Is there anyone in the Trump administration that doesn't have ties to Russia and Putin?

Now it's Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross who has financial ties to Putin's son-in-law. It appears that Ross was not entirely forthcoming (translation: lied) about his financial dealings during his confirmation process.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-report-commerce-head-has-stake-in-firm-tied-to-putin-orbit-2017-11

Was Ross a Trump vetting failure or another accomplice to stacking a pro-Russian administration?

Ross is as crooked as they come.  Amazing the Trump supporters don't see this.  Again, I'm stunned.  Trumpians cheered when Trump said he'd drain the swamp.  Now those same people just say "well, at least he beat Hillary". Sad times.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/23/wilbur-ross-russian-deal-bank-of-cyprus-donald-trump-commerce-secretary

 

Quote

 

Trump's commerce secretary oversaw Russia deal while at Bank of Cyprus

Questions raised over Trump appointee Wilbur Ross and his ties to politically connected Russian oligarchs

 

 

I was in Cyprus not long ago.  It's been taken over by Russians, many laundering black money there.  A few locals I met were quite unhappy as they are making real estate prices skyrocket.  And the Russia mafia has made a very big presence there.

[boomerangutang]

7 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

I'm not blind to the dangers of Trump. No, not at all.  I think the only difference between me and many on this board is that I see the election of someone like Trump as an opportunity to examine how we got here.

If you fall off a balcony with no railing, you can also see that as an opp to examine how you got to the ground (and broke some bones).

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Follow the money, indeed:

 

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/unh/stock-chart?intraday=off&timeframe=10y&splits=off&earnings=off&movingaverage=None&lowerstudy=volume&comparison=off&index=&drilldown=off

You possibly could have chosen a worse example to bolster your case but it would be difficult. Thank you.

UnitedHealthcare to exit most Obamacare exchanges

UnitedHealthcare, the biggest health insurer in the United States, said Tuesday that it plans to exit most of the Affordable Care Act state exchanges where it currently operates by 2017.

The health insurer had already indicated that it was dropping coverage of the plans, more commonly known as Obamacare, in Arkansas, Georgia and Michigan.

But during a conference call with analysts Tuesday, CEO Stephen Hemsley noted that "next year we will remain in only a handful of states.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/19/investing/unitedhealthcare-obamacare-exchanges-aca/index.html

[lannarebirth]

5 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

If you fall off a balcony with no railing, you can also see that as an opp to examine how you got to the ground (and broke some bones).

If you're smart you would. If you were smarter still, you'd have noticed the balcony had no railing before you climbed on to it. Some people like to learn the hard way.

[lannarebirth]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You possibly could have chosen a worse example to bolster your case but it would be difficult. Thank you.

UnitedHealthcare to exit most Obamacare exchanges

UnitedHealthcare, the biggest health insurer in the United States, said Tuesday that it plans to exit most of the Affordable Care Act state exchanges where it currently operates by 2017.

The health insurer had already indicated that it was dropping coverage of the plans, more commonly known as Obamacare, in Arkansas, Georgia and Michigan.

But during a conference call with analysts Tuesday, CEO Stephen Hemsley noted that "next year we will remain in only a handful of states.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/19/investing/unitedhealthcare-obamacare-exchanges-aca/index.html

Really?  Ok, show me next years chart.

Edited November 6, 2017 by lannarebirth

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Really?  Ok, show me next years chart.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you contending that United Health Care pulled out of Obamacare because it was making too much money and that next year it will be doing worse?

Edited November 6, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Andaman Al]

7 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

She said you could "put half of Trump supporters in what I call a basket of deplorables". That's about 30 million Americans.

But she was correct.

[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you contending that United Health Care pulled out of Obamacare because it was making too much money and that next year it will be doing worse?

Pull up the chart of any major healthcare stock. Pull up one of the healthcare ETF's. They all look the same. It's corporate welfare at the expense of the middle class.

[boomerangutang]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you contending that United Health Care pulled out of Obamacare because it was making too much money?

I wouldn't be surprised if Trumpsters pressured UHC to pull out (something Trump's dad should have done 72 yrs ago).   Trump has stated several times how he wants ACA to fail, so it's not a stretch for his minions to pressure all corps which contribute to ACA - to contribute to its failure.   

 

Note:  Trump took an oath in January, 'to uphold the laws of the land'   .....yet, by actively trying to trash ACA, he is breaking that oath.  ACA is law.  Trump is doing all he can to eradicate it, much to chagrin of most Americans.

[lannarebirth]

9 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

But she was correct.

I think I have been exposed to a larger cross section of the electorate than she has and I think she's wrong. I think she was just pandering to the crowd at an LGTBQIA fundraiser. 

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Trumpsters pressured UHC to pull out (something Trump's dad should have done 72 yrs ago).   Trump has stated several times how he wants ACA to fail, so it's not a stretch for his minions to pressure all corps which contribute to ACA - to contribute to its failure.   

 

Note:  Trump took an oath in January, 'to uphold the laws of the land'   .....yet, by actively trying to trash ACA, he is breaking that oath.  ACA is law.  Trump is doing all he can to eradicate it, much to chagrin of most Americans.

Actually, it was the fulfillment of a threat by United Health Care to pull out if the Obama administration opposed a merger of UHC with Aetna.  

[Kim1950]

Win Bigly: Persuasion in a World Where Facts Don't Matter, by Scott Adams.

 

"Tump triggered massive cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias on both the left and the right. We’re hardwired to respond to emotion, not reason. We might listen to 10 percent of a speech—a hand gesture here, a phrase there—and if the right buttons are pushed, we irrationally agree with the speaker and invent reasons to justify that decision after the fact."

 

"If you need to convince people that something is important, make a claim that’s directionally accurate but has a big exaggeration in it. Everyone will spend endless hours talking about how wrong it is while accidentally persuading themselves the issue is a high priority."

 

CNN, FOX, WAPO, NYT, or whoever, The Facts Don't Matter. You are suffering from massive cognitive dissonance. The earliest court hearing of Manafort and Gates is freak'en Spring. You know, even this date will slip into Summer or Fall with motions after motions. And, that's just the start. This will drag it's legal dysfunction over years. Even if it reaches Trump, there's more constitutional legalese. 
 

[Thakkar]

1 hour ago, Kim1950 said:

Win Bigly: Persuasion in a World Where Facts Don't Matter, by Scott Adams.

 

"Tump triggered massive cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias on both the left and the right. We’re hardwired to respond to emotion, not reason. We might listen to 10 percent of a speech—a hand gesture here, a phrase there—and if the right buttons are pushed, we irrationally agree with the speaker and invent reasons to justify that decision after the fact."

 

"If you need to convince people that something is important, make a claim that’s directionally accurate but has a big exaggeration in it. Everyone will spend endless hours talking about how wrong it is while accidentally persuading themselves the issue is a high priority."

 

CNN, FOX, WAPO, NYT, or whoever, The Facts Don't Matter. You are suffering from massive cognitive dissonance. The earliest court hearing of Manafort and Gates is freak'en Spring. You know, even this date will slip into Summer or Fall with motions after motions. And, that's just the start. This will drag it's legal dysfunction over years. Even if it reaches Trump, there's more constitutional legalese. 
 

...and then it’ll take Trump at least another twenty minutes to put on his clothes when they come for him during his afternoon nap. Don’t even get me started on the traffic jams on the way to the courthouse. 

[EvenSteven]

1 hour ago, Kim1950 said:

CNN, FOX, WAPO, NYT, or whoever, The Facts Don't Matter.

Yes they do.  And I'm referring to the facts, not spin or propaganda.  The investigation is complex, far reaching and time consuming, and the far right is doing everything they can to obstruct it and shut it down.  When the investigation is concluded we're not sure, but I trust that we will get to the bottom of this or we'll have a banana republic.  Have patience.

Edited November 6, 2017 by EvenSteven

[ballpoint]

12 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

But she was correct.

(Hillary Clinton said you could "put half of Trump supporters in what I call a basket of deplorables")

 

She was half correct.

Edited November 6, 2017 by ballpoint