British woman, 22, who 'could lose leg' after Thailand motorbike crash in race against time to raise £100,000

[DavisH]

6 hours ago, wakeupplease said:

So many accidents involving Brits who themselves go through training that is the best in the world, you would think it would not happen to a Brit.

 

It comes down to local driving and boy can I say I have seen it close up.

 

pack a body bag must be added to UK Th>>>>> website soon please

It doesn't matter how good one's training in the West is. If' one drives in Thailand like they do back in the West, they can run into trouble. It took me at least 6 months to adapt to driving in BKK. No bike should ever be rented to someone who doesn't have a bike licence....that's just asking for trouble. 

[harrry]

On reflection I think the company should be liable if she was a passenger.  The insurance company then has a claim against the driver who no licence which as her boyfriend may be successful.

On the other hand if they could show a UK court that she got on a vehicle here knowing the driver was unlicenced it may be considered that she contributed to the liabity and hence should lose a percentage of any claim.  It is a UK insurance company we are talking about.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Insurance companies = thieves in suits.

Big bent bankers, unscrupulous lawyers. All the same. Criminals.

Hope the lady gets it sorted and gets better.

 

Not really. They are in business to make money and profits just like any other business.

 

The insurance underwriters have decades of accident files to refer to about who and what they will insure and at what cost.

In the UK for example, if you take a vehicle driven by a 20 year old lad with say 3 months driving experience and compare the same vehicle with a 40 years old man or woman with 20 years driving experience with no accidents, who will pay far less for the same class of insurance.

 

Now change the scenario to a 20 year old guy with no full bike licence renting a 1,000 cc superbike in a foreign country such as Thailand and a 40 year old man riding the same bike in the same country but who has 20 years experience of riding superbikes.

 

As the insurer who would you insure? I suspect that the 40 year old guy would take out separate insurance specifically for that holiday period and NOT rely on travel insurance and the very small print. I further suspect that he would also take out full accident insurance cover and possibly air ambulance coverage too.

 

If you know that you are going on holiday to somewhere like Thailand and you DON'T take out proper insurance then you are one of 2 sorts of people.

 

1   Penny wise and pound foolish

 

2   incredibly stupid and you shouldn't be allowed out without your Mummy holding your hand.

[nakhonandy]

Irrespective of what everyone thinks, the insurance company won't pay. Rightly or wrongly, I have no idea. 

 

Why she needs to fly back to the UK for treatment is beyond me as there are plenty of very good hospitals here. If Samui is no good then get transferred to a good one on the mainland. 

 

I would imagine the 16k already raised would cover it. 

 

 

[billd766]

48 minutes ago, USPatriot said:

She had holiday insurance.

 

But what kind of holiday insurance. That is a fairly meaningless statement.

 

What WAS she covered for and for how much, and more importantly, what WASN'T she covered for?

[djayz]

GBP 100,000 / THB 4.5 mil. strikes me as being an awful lot...

[JHolmesJr]

every time you travel on the road in thailand you are rolling the dice. I shit myself every time i get on a moto….even when i tell them 

cha cha, they still zip. When i ride my rented scooty i drive like an old lady….but even then i know that doesn't stop some drunk to run me over.

 

 

[Stokakrishna]

 should get an insurance

[vivasamui]

7 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

There's something disingenuous about the appeal. The Koh Samui hospital will treat her and I suspect she is at no greater risk of losing her leg there than she would be at a NHS hospital in Yorkshire. It sounds as though the 100k is needed to pay the hospital bill which will then release her to fly home and get free treatment on the NHS, all of this because she didn't have the correct drivers license. I don't mean to appear callous but this seems to be an appeal to bail out a person because of their own ignorance of licensing laws and using the allegedly poor quality of Thai hospitals as an excuse.

 How much is a plane ticket back to UK?  they've already raised 16,000 £s

 

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, vivasamui said:

 How much is a plane ticket back to UK?  they've already raised 16,000 £s

 

If she's a stretcher case it's feasible she could fly on a commercial flight but that would require at least two business class seats plus accompanying medical staff. If she's too ill for a commercial flight a private medivac would be needed, figure costs of between 10k and 30k I imagine. It seems also that she's now in a governement hospital, probably to keep costs down, chances are she was in a private hospital right after the accident and that would account for a large chunk of the costs.

Edited May 23, 2017 by simoh1490

[Enoon]

8 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

"Due to a misunderstanding around what British driving licenses will allow you to do abroad, Jenni was not insured to be on the motorbike",

 

So now there's a new law that says passengers on motorbikes must have a valid license otherwise their travel insurance/medical becomes invalid, really, wow, who ever would have known that!

 

No, the passenger is not covered if they choose to ride with a driver who does not have an appropriate licence for the vehicle.

 

[LannaGuy]

2 hours ago, USPatriot said:

She had holiday insurance.

yes i meant for riding or passenger on a motorbike

[evadgib]

It's in every parents interest to ensure that their offspring have adequate insurance before setting off abroad & perhaps even to take out a modest backup policy themselves which includes any of the anticipated bear traps that may otherwise cost them their house!

[dunroaming]

9 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

There's something disingenuous about the appeal. The Koh Samui hospital will treat her and I suspect she is at no greater risk of losing her leg there than she would be at a NHS hospital in Yorkshire. It sounds as though the 100k is needed to pay the hospital bill which will then release her to fly home and get free treatment on the NHS, all of this because she didn't have the correct drivers license. I don't mean to appear callous but this seems to be an appeal to bail out a person because of their own ignorance of licensing laws and using the allegedly poor quality of Thai hospitals as an excuse.

She was a passenger on the motorbike which was probably being ridden correctly.  The accident could quite possibly be the fault of the other person and their insurance should cover the hospital costs.  However TIT and there may have been no insurance covering anything.  It is easy to say that she should have had appropriate travel insurance but  it is only over the last few years that I have taken out travel insurance.  We all think it will never happen to us, until it does. 

 

Having experienced the "quality" of Thai hospitals I think it is unfair to say that she is in no greater risk of losing her leg than in an NHS hospital. Medical treatment and diagnosis in Thailand is hit and miss at best, even in the international hospitals.

 

I do think the young lady was naïve and foolhardy but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be helped

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

She was a passenger on the motorbike which was probably being ridden correctly.  The accident could quite possibly be the fault of the other person and their insurance should cover the hospital costs.  However TIT and there may have been no insurance covering anything.  It is easy to say that she should have had appropriate travel insurance but  it is only over the last few years that I have taken out travel insurance.  We all think it will never happen to us, until it does. 

 

Having experienced the "quality" of Thai hospitals I think it is unfair to say that she is in no greater risk of losing her leg than in an NHS hospital. Medical treatment and diagnosis in Thailand is hit and miss at best, even in the international hospitals.

 

I do think the young lady was naïve and foolhardy but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be helped

I have a lot of experience over many years with hospitals and the health care system in Thailand and I agree that some patients who seek treatment in remote rural town hospitals sometimes don't always get the best diagnostics and care possible. But I would pitch the quality of diagnostics and care at the district hospitals and at the larger private hospitals against anything the UK can offer, except in unusual cases and circumstances. The one thing hospitals here are very good at is treating road traffic accident victims simply because they get so much practise.

[dunroaming]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

The one thing hospitals here are very good at is treating road traffic accident victims simply because they get so much practise

Yes I agree with that.  I have also had many years experience with Thai hospitals in Chiang Mai, Nakhon Sawan, Phuket and Bangkok.  I was treated in Lanna hospital in Chiang Mai after I was knocked off of my motorbike by a hit ad run pick-up.  My son was also born in the same hospital and they were brilliant with that.

 

However one of my closest friends was diagnosed with prostate cancer which (after going back to the UK for treatment) turned out not to be cancer at all.  Also my sister in law was diagnosed with cancer of the ovaries and told she needed an urgent hysterectomy.  When we persuaded her to get a second opinion it was found to be totally unfounded and she was treated with anti-biotics and now has two lovely kids. I could go on and on but I won't.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Yes I agree with that.  I have also had many years experience with Thai hospitals in Chiang Mai, Nakhon Sawan, Phuket and Bangkok.  I was treated in Lanna hospital in Chiang Mai after I was knocked off of my motorbike by a hit ad run pick-up.  My son was also born in the same hospital and they were brilliant with that.

 

However one of my closest friends was diagnosed with prostate cancer which (after going back to the UK for treatment) turned out not to be cancer at all.  Also my sister in law was diagnosed with cancer of the ovaries and told she needed an urgent hysterectomy.  When we persuaded her to get a second opinion it was found to be totally unfounded and she was treated with anti-biotics and now has two lovely kids. I could go on and on but I won't.

I suspect we would also agree there are doctors who are less than good, everywhere and it doesn't seem sensible to try and debate which country has more. Having said that, the oversight rules in the UK go a long way to ensuring bad doctors don't remain in the system very long. Additionally, the fact that most of the medical system in Thailand is based on fee paying patients doesn't always bring out the best in Thai doctors. I suppose I may be an exception/in a small minority in that I think I know enough about the Thai medical system to be able to reduce my risk significantly and am aware of what my options are here, others much less so.

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Additionally, the fact that most of the medical system in Thailand is based on fee paying patients doesn't always bring out the best in Thai doctors.

Very much my view as well and not only in Thailand.  I have been fortunate with my personal experiences with the hospitals in Thailand and the birth of my son in Chiang Mai was certainly one of the best experiences of my life, thanks to the wonderful Dr Udom!

[ben2talk]

3 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

every time you travel on the road in thailand you are rolling the dice. I shit myself every time i get on a moto….even when i tell them 

cha cha, they still zip. When i ride my rented scooty i drive like an old lady….but even then i know that doesn't stop some drunk to run me over.

 

 

Fear is often the difference that keeps you alive - and the knowledge that even Barry Sheen could get caught out here.

[MaiChai]

What is it with the hospitals on the islands off Surat Thani being so expensive? Get her moved to a main land gov hospital and her costs will drop dramatically?

 

I looked at the crowdfunding page on my phone and did not see much detail about her injuries. Did I miss something?

[NCFC]

I just checked the exclusion policy of a large insurance company in the UK. It says you are not covered as driver or passenger on a bike of less than 125cc unless you wear a helmet and fully licensed in the UK. Over 125cc you must additionally have protective clothing and a motorbike must be your mode of transport in the UK. No cover for over 125cc outside Europe

Additionally no cover if misuse of alcohol involved in the accident.

[ben2talk]

16 minutes ago, MaiChai said:

What is it with the hospitals on the islands off Surat Thani being so expensive? Get her moved to a main land gov hospital and her costs will drop dramatically?

 

I looked at the crowdfunding page on my phone and did not see much detail about her injuries. Did I miss something?

For a serious appeal they should have a facebook page too - then we can all tune in and see pictures, hospital bills, and maybe a video or two. Make it real.

[NCFC]

For anyone interested who might be reading this thread, getting a Thai drivers license on a tourist visa is not that difficult and may solve lots of problems: http://libertytotravel.com/get-thai-motorbike-drivers-license-tourist-visa-without-license-home-country/

My research into insurance exclusions shows that this won't work

[samsensam]

2 minutes ago, NCFC said:

I just checked the exclusion policy of a large insurance company in the UK. It says you are not covered as driver or passenger on a bike of less than 125cc unless you wear a helmet and fully licensed in the UK. Over 125cc you must additionally have protective clothing and a motorbike must be your mode of transport in the UK. No cover for over 125cc outside Europe

Additionally no cover if misuse of alcohol involved in the accident.

 

indeed, it is up to the purchaser to ensure the insurance policy they buy covers all the activities they will be involved in.

 

i have had to make substantial insurance claims on travel and household policies and in both cases the insurance companies and loss adjusters were helpful, professional and the full amount was paid out.

[ben2talk]

4 minutes ago, NCFC said:

I just checked the exclusion policy of a large insurance company in the UK. It says you are not covered as driver or passenger on a bike of less than 125cc unless you wear a helmet and fully licensed in the UK. Over 125cc you must additionally have protective clothing and a motorbike must be your mode of transport in the UK. No cover for over 125cc outside Europe

Additionally no cover if misuse of alcohol involved in the accident.

I must say that I never felt happy to ride pillion with anyone. I have used bike taxis on three occasions between 2001 and 2017...

 

It's a bit unfortunate that they specify by the 'cc' rating of the bike... a PCX150 is no faster than a 110cc bike here... and I am a little curious - if the rider has a licence, and a helmet, why isn't there insurance to cover his passenger?

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, NCFC said:

My research into insurance exclusions shows that this won't work

I can believe that may cause problems for foreign insurance companies but there's nothing to stop the visitor from buying a similar policy here in Thailand which would be far far cheaper.

[samsensam]

3 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

For a serious appeal they should have a facebook page too - then we can all tune in and see pictures, hospital bills, and maybe a video or two. Make it real.

 

there are pixalated photos of her injuries in the UK media, according to reports in the UK and these photos she has suffered a large/deep gash to one leg and the main family concern is of infection.

[NCFC]

Insurance companies = thieves in suits.
Big bent bankers, unscrupulous lawyers. All the same. Criminals.
Hope the lady gets it sorted and gets better.

Not really. Insurance companies know that there are a lot of idiots who don't own a bike at home yet will rent a machine when on holiday in a foreign destination. Mix that with alcohol, a carefree holiday spirit and unfamiliarity with the local driving conditions and you have a recipe for disaster.

So when these idiots have their inevitable accident, it is the rest of us who pay for it through higher insurance premiums.

Insurance companies exclude these situations because they don't want the business and who can blame them.

[samsensam]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

I can believe that may cause problems for foreign insurance companies but there's nothing to stop the visitor from buying a similar policy here in Thailand which would be far far cheaper.

 

can a non-thai citizen buy travel insurance to travel in thailand? could you provide links to such policies?

[simoh1490]

8 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

can a non-thai citizen buy travel insurance to travel in thailand? could you provide links to such policies?

Sure, I just did so myself a few days ago in advance of a trip to krabi on Thursday, albeit I bought mine via Bangkok Airways who offered it with the ticket costs but it covers the full spectrum of what travel insurance would cover and is underwritten by Alianz (sp).

 

If you want something for longer than just a trip, send an email to Peter at AA Insurance Brokers in Pattaya, AA are forum sponsors and Peter is extremely helpful. I've previously looked at longer options for travel insurance through Peter but have not bought. The things is, the cost to insure with Thai insurance companies and even with international insurance companies operating out of Thailand is far far cheaper than their UK counterparts.