Stressed doctors call for shorter hours

[webfact]

Stressed doctors call for shorter hours
By PRATCH RUJIVANAROM
THE NATION

 

 

Health workers plead for better conditions after deaths of three doctors at work

 

BANGKOK: -- PUBLIC HEALTH workers yesterday demanded better conditions and protection of workers’ rights after at least three doctors were said to have died from infections in hospitals amid heavy workloads.

 

The group of doctors and nurses aired their grievances at a press conference, calling on the Public Health Ministry to reform its human resource management system to protect healthcare workers from working excessive hours and ensure they have adequate legal rights.

 

Medical Council of Thailand committee member Dr Cherdchoo Ariyasriwattana said that after the deaths of the young hospital doctors as a result of overwork, the public had become aware of a chronic problem in Thai public health, which must be solved now.

 

“The claim by a high-ranking officer in the Public Health Ministry that no doctor works more than 24 hours is totally wrong. In reality, the public hospital doctors work very hard for unacceptably long hours. Some have to work up to 40 shifts per month. Compare that to normal workers, who work eight hours for 20 to 22 days per month,” Cherdchoo said.

 

“The extraordinarily hard and long working hours that doctors face is confirmed by academic research, which shows up to 90 per cent of interns worked more than 80 hours per week.”

 

She said that such hard work not only caused healthcare workers to work inefficiently and increase the chance of them making a mistake while treating patients – it also put their health and welfare in danger.

 

Dr Oraphan Methadilokul, a medical law expert, said the rights and safety of public health workers must be protected, as it was clear that overwork led to the recent deaths of doctors while on duty.

 

“We should have a law to protect public health workers’ rights, which satisfies the international standard, such as limited working hours, proper welfare, and adequate compensation for the workers,” Oraphan said.

 

She stated that the cases of doctors dying from infection in hospital could be easily prevented, if they were allowed sufficient rest.

 

 

This month, two young doctors were confirmed as having died from respiratory infections at work – Dr Thapakorn Thongkuea, 30, who worked at Lam Plai Mat Hospital, and Dr Pichaorn Phongprasert, a 25-year-old intern.

 

Oraphan also said the Public Health Ministry’s human resource management system should be separated from the Office of the Civil Service Commission, in order to let the ministry manage its workforce efficiently according to the national public health situation.

 

Dr Withawat Siriprachai, a former director of Koh Lanta Hospital and administrator of the Facebook fanpage “Drama Addict”, disclosed that health problems through hard work drove him to quit his career as a doctor in the rural area.

 

“Last year I felt that my health was bad, as I was often tired during work, so I had a check-up and found out I had serious diabetes. At that time, I realised that if I did not take care of myself, I would surely die. So I asked for one month’s sick leave, which was denied. That is why I resigned,” Withawat said.

 

Withawat said that the public could also help solve the workload problem at public hospitals. Due to a lack of preventive healthcare knowledge, many went to see a doctor for minor ailments.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30316105

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-05-24

[Get Real]

I felt the same, when I once worked in a supermarket. Every time the customers came, I also wanted to go home.

[steven100]

1 minute ago, Get Real said:

I felt the same, when I once worked in a supermarket. Every time the customers came, I also wanted to go home.

exactly .....   did they expect you to serve customers  ...

[doremifasol]

Thai people just love to go to the hospital for every little thing.

 

Mosquito bite? Go to hospital.

Cut yourself with a sheet of paper? Go to hospital

 

They take up the space, the time and the resources

someone else with serious issues might need.

Edited May 23, 2017 by doremifasol
re-edited

[maewang99]

it's a total shame.

 

and I don't buy into the narrative that Thai clog the hospitals with minor ailments. cancer ain't minor. I know all about that one. from the Thai side, not farlang. that one sounds a lot more like 'Co2 is plant food' and 'Thailand is a poor country' etc.

Thai health care is a very good system. without it, and I mean the public system... not the ISO places that we can scoot into if it comes to that.... without a good Thai public health system.... we would really need to think about just leaving Thailand totally behind.

 

the doctors and nurses in the entire system work very hard.

there is no question about that.





 



 

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by maewang99

[ezzra]

So let me see here, as of now, right now they're over worked, so how a shorter hours

will help to cope with the high demands and workloads?

the answer would be more staff with better pay to get those loafing medical staff

 from the private hospitals to the public ones......

[darksidedog]

90% of interns are working more than 80 hours a week. That's over 13 hours a day, seven days a week! You can't keep that up and not have your performance negatively affected, which in the life and death game is definitely not desirable. It certainly suggests the Health Service needs to be recruiting a significantly larger number of doctors.

[Bill Miller]

“The claim by a high-ranking officer in the Public Health Ministry that no doctor works more than 24 hours is totally wrong. "
Not just wrong, but a bald faced lie.
It is a problem in the west as well, though I do not recall hearing of cases where the docs were literally worked to death. It IS a not infrequent factor in medical malpractice issues, though.
The Japanese even have a word for it, "karoshi", which literally means death from overwork.

[DavisH]

One of my past students is a 5th year med student doing residence. She works from about 4 am to midnight most days, doing both study and clinical work / writing patient reports, etc.. Many of the students have dropped out because they can't handle the pressure and stress. The high drop out rate means those that survive have to take up the slack. I'm not surprised by this news story at all. 

[Bob12345]

This is nothing new, it has been going on in the exact same way for decades (both in Thailand as almost everywhere in the world).

 

Especially interns pay the price: they barely get paid and have to work long hours plus study in their limited free time.

My wife currently works 20-24 shifts (of 12 hours) in a private hospital a month but while specializing in government hospitals she sometimes reached 40 hours in a weekend.

Some of her friends have it worse: the one specializing as a surgeon makes longer hours than the rest and has even less rest during working hours (hard to take a lunch break during an operation).

 

I have never understood why there are no strict regulation with regards to working hours.

Even in the banking sector we had mandatory weeks off for holidays (to avoid one person committing fraud), and all we handled was money and not people's lifes.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Bob12345

[Bob12345]

Quote

The claim by a high-ranking officer in the Public Health Ministry that no doctor works more than 24 hours is totally wrong.

I assume the high-ranking officer means they do not work more than 24 hours a day, in which case he is right.

[DavisH]

10 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

This is nothing new, it has been going on in the exact same way for decades (both in Thailand as almost everywhere in the world).

 

Especially interns pay the price: they barely get paid and have to work long hours plus study in their limited free time.

My wife currently works 20-24 shifts (of 12 hours) in a private hospital a month but while specializing in government hospitals she sometimes reached 40 hours in a weekend.

Some of her friends have it worse: the one specializing as a surgeon makes longer hours than the rest and has even less rest during working hours (hard to take a lunch break during an operation).

 

I have never understood why there are no strict regulation with regards to working hours.

Even in the banking sector we had mandatory weeks off for holidays (to avoid one person committing fraud), and all we handled was money and not people's lifes.

My ex-student in her residence gets 700 baht for a 36 hour shift....obviously not 36 hours straight:)

[Bob12345]

Just now, DavisH said:

My ex-student in her residence gets 700 baht for a 36 hour shift....obviously not 36 hours straight:)

That sounds about right, they get around minimum wage.

 

I cannot blame all the residents who work hard till graduation and immediately switch to the private sector where they get treated better and finally get the pay the deserve.

Making long hours and barely getting paid brings resentment.

[Gracas]

Many Doctors also own and run their clinics on the side, as a result increasing their work load.

[elgordo38]

The land of misdirected priorities. Down periscope. 

[elgordo38]

2 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

This is nothing new, it has been going on in the exact same way for decades (both in Thailand as almost everywhere in the world).

 

Especially interns pay the price: they barely get paid and have to work long hours plus study in their limited free time.

My wife currently works 20-24 shifts (of 12 hours) in a private hospital a month but while specializing in government hospitals she sometimes reached 40 hours in a weekend.

Some of her friends have it worse: the one specializing as a surgeon makes longer hours than the rest and has even less rest during working hours (hard to take a lunch break during an operation).

 

I have never understood why there are no strict regulation with regards to working hours.

Even in the banking sector we had mandatory weeks off for holidays (to avoid one person committing fraud), and all we handled was money and not people's lifes.

Maybe the value of money is gaining the upper hand??

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, Gracas said:

Many Doctors also own and run their clinics on the side, as a result increasing their work load.

We live in a fast paced world of consumerism and glitz. Doctors to want a bigger house and a bigger car to park in the driveway plus the love add ons (one would wonder where they find the time or energy). Makes them a somebody. 

Signed

A nobody. 

[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

“The claim by a high-ranking officer in the Public Health Ministry that no doctor works more than 24 hours is totally wrong. "
Not just wrong, but a bald faced lie.
It is a problem in the west as well, though I do not recall hearing of cases where the docs were literally worked to death. It IS a not infrequent factor in medical malpractice issues, though.
The Japanese even have a word for it, "karoshi", which literally means death from overwork.

Yes I have heard this on the NHK news from time to time. They seem to be trying to at least solve the problem. 

[elgordo38]

2 hours ago, DavisH said:

One of my past students is a 5th year med student doing residence. She works from about 4 am to midnight most days, doing both study and clinical work / writing patient reports, etc.. Many of the students have dropped out because they can't handle the pressure and stress. The high drop out rate means those that survive have to take up the slack. I'm not surprised by this news story at all. 

Its truly amazing being ruled by a military government that constantly wastes money to protect us from presumed dangers from without the country while conditions within the country reach critical levels 

[DavisH]

1 hour ago, Gracas said:

Many Doctors also own and run their clinics on the side, as a result increasing their work load.

A family friend does this. He is a plastic surgeon and just retired last year but has had to continue working at the public hospital because there is noone to replace him (for at least two years). 

[Bob12345]

 
How clever. You have managed to blame nearly 70 million people for the "crime" of wanting to see a doctor.
 
I will agree with you just as soon as you can back your claim up with facts instead of a meaningless piece of rubbish that  seems to be your carefully considered opinion.

From being married to a doctor and having been told first hand about the types of patients coming in i can say he is completely correct.

To use an exemple i have used more often on this forum: in a small provincial hospital where my wife worked the record for treating patients was just over 60 an hour; that is by 1 doctor. If a doctor can hear the patient out, examine the complaints, decide on a treatment plan, update the records, and prescribe medicine in under 60 seconds on average it can't be serious.

Most complaints were in the nature of not being able to sleep, headache for an hour already, or coughing a few times.

[tomacht8]

Many doctors runing their own private clinics. In state hospitals these are only to be found in a few days during the week. 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Bob12345 said:

From being married to a doctor and having been told first hand about the types of patients coming in i can say he is completely correct.

To use an exemple i have used more often on this forum: in a small provincial hospital where my wife worked the record for treating patients was just over 60 an hour; that is by 1 doctor. If a doctor can hear the patient out, examine the complaints, decide on a treatment plan, update the records, and prescribe medicine in under 60 seconds on average it can't be serious.

Most complaints were in the nature of not being able to sleep, headache for an hour already, or coughing a few times.

But he accused all Thais in general of that.

 

Sure there will be some that do but the majority of Thais that I see here in rural Khampaeng Phet, use the doctors in the village (3 or 4 surgeries of them) or the government clinics as the nearest public hospital is 15km away. Sometimes they are crowded at opening times but they are usually finished around lunchtime though thery are open in the afternoons.

 

The rural hospital that I use from time to time usually has about 4 doctors every morning surgery and they start around 8 am and deal with about 200 patients every day. They have an hours lunch break (but there is always one doctor on call for an emergency) and work through the afternoon when it slacks off a bit. There is always one doctor who works the night shift and sleeps there when he is not on call or on the 3 wards.

 

They are the first line and if there is anything major that they cannot handle such as surgery or they have exhausted their skill and the resources of the hospital the patients are transported to the larger provincial hospital.

Edited May 24, 2017 by billd766
Added extra text

[just.a.thought]

They do work hard and the conditions at many hospitals are not good. Yet many of the doctors and surgeons still find time and energy to run private clinics in their spare time?

Edited May 24, 2017 by just.a.thought

[robblok]

8 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

That sounds about right, they get around minimum wage.

 

I cannot blame all the residents who work hard till graduation and immediately switch to the private sector where they get treated better and finally get the pay the deserve.

Making long hours and barely getting paid brings resentment.

Problem is that the "free" healthcare cost a lot of money. Nobody wants to raise the budget of healthcare because they will have to cut in other area's. There is just no money.. the Thai taxpayer base it too small. They are bleeding the middle class dry. 

[Bob12345]

They do work hard and the conditions at many hospitals are not good. Yet many of the doctors and surgeons still find time and energy to run private clinics in their spare time?

Or they just work part-time?

Only the more senior doctors will have enough money to set up their private clinic.

I wonder if they would still do that if they got paid better.

[ddavidovsky]

They're caught in a moral trap. They're obliged to tend to suffering. And there's always suffering. In return they are afforded high social status and pay.

Presumably they knew that when they chose to become doctors?

[Bob12345]

They're caught in a moral trap. They're obliged to tend to suffering. And there's always suffering. In return they are afforded high social status and pay.
Presumably they knew that when they chose to become doctors?

Many probably know given the shortage of doctors.

So they either make the profession more attractive with higher pay or less suffering, or accept having a hugeshortage of doctors forever with all the costs that brings.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. 

[YetAnother]

o let me guess; they also want more money