What are the correct steps to travel and stay indefinitely in Thailand for a dual citizen (US/Thai) with two passports having different last names?

[medtechbrah]

I have done exhausting research and even spoke with Thai immigration at BKK airport about this, but it's still intimidating every time I think about it. So, any inputs from those who's been in similar situation would be highly appreciated.

 

My mom was born in Thailand, moved to US, married an American, changed her last name, and became a US citizen years ago. Now she wants to go back to Thailand and take care of her elderly parents in their final years indefinitely without having to worry about 30 day or Visa extensions ordeals. She went back to Thailand recently and got a new Thai passport with her old Thai last name (also got her Thai ID card) , so the US passport has a different last name than her Thai passport.

 

Here are the steps that's apparently been proven to work with minimal issues (if any).

 

Going There:

 

1. Book One-Way Ticket from US to Thailand with US Passport (US last name on ticket)

2. Show US Passport when asked at various checkpoints as needed.

2. Once arrived, check in to Thai Immigration with Thai Passport

 

*Problem #1 - The name on plane ticket won't match the name on Thai Passport. If they happened to check this, she could either show her US passport or name change documentation and simply tell them she has not changed her name back after divorce, yet. Worst case scenario is they won't let her into the country or only allow her to use US passport with 30-day visa to enter. I've also read that it's possible tell the airline to add an additional last name on the ticket as well?

 

----

 

Coming Back:

 

1. Book One-Way ticket from Thailand to US with US (or Thai) Passport

2. Once arrived, check in with US immigration with US Passport

 

*Problem #2 - If Using US Passport for departure, would there be a problem for having no record of entering the country with US passport in the first place (ie. no visa stamps, etc.). If using Thai passport, doesn't she need to apply and be approved with ESTA first to be eligible to fly to US?

 

*Problem #3 - Since US citizen can stay abroad forever, there shouldn't be a problem at US immigration (if questioned) because she could just show them her Thai Passport correct?

----

 

Thanks in advance for your time.

[Sheryl]

Am I missing something? Why on earth can't she just fly to Thailand on her Thai passport to begin with?

 

And when/if she wants to come back to the US, enter the US on her US passport?

[Crossy]

OK my take.

 

On the way out.

1. Book return ticket (if you want) in the name on the US passport.
2. Check-in and leave the US on that passport.
3. Put the US passport away.
4. At Thai immigration show Thai passport. She may have to explain why there are no Thai stamps and she doesn't have a stamped TM6. Possibly need to talk to a supervisor.

 

On the way back.

1. Check-in using US passport, show Thai passport to check-in agent if asked where the entry stamp is (some ask, some don't).
2. Leave Thailand on Thai passport.
3. Enter US on US passport.

 

 

 

[asiaexpat]

First of all what makes the OP think immigration is going to check her airline ticket. My wife has entered Thailand and returned to USA at least 2 times a year for many years and never had to present anything other than her Thai passport (even when it was expired) in Bangkok and US passport upon return to USA. Secondly, there is no government checks of passports leaving the USA; just normal security checks as for any flight. If the airline asks if she has a visa for Thailand (which they rarely do in USA) she just shows her Thai passport and all is well. Upon return to USA just go through the USA citizen line and show passport if there is not a automatic kiosk available. No questions about airline tickets asked of US Citizens and no reason to mention Thailand passport. 

[YetAnother]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Am I missing something? Why on earth can't she just fly to Thailand on her Thai passport to begin with?

 

And when/if she wants to come back to the US, enter the US on her US passport?

exactly what my thai wife does

[medtechbrah]

7 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

First of all what makes the OP think immigration is going to check her airline ticket. My wife has entered Thailand and returned to USA at least 2 times a year for many years and never had to present anything other than her Thai passport (even when it was expired) in Bangkok and US passport upon return to USA. Secondly, there is no government checks of passports leaving the USA; just normal security checks as for any flight. If the airline asks if she has a visa for Thailand (which they rarely do in USA) she just shows her Thai passport and all is well. Upon return to USA just go through the USA citizen line and show passport if there is not a automatic kiosk available. No questions about airline tickets asked of US Citizens and no reason to mention Thailand passport. 

 

It's very unlikely that they will check airline ticket but still a possibility.

 

The problem I see with using Thai passport to book ticket enter Thailand is that US would have no record of my mom leaving the country and will raise question when she uses her US passport to get back into USA. Another problem is the possibility of people asking how did she get into the US if Thai passport is blank. Then when she whips out US passport then they would ask why doesn't she just use US passport, etc..

[medtechbrah]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Am I missing something? Why on earth can't she just fly to Thailand on her Thai passport to begin with?

 

And when/if she wants to come back to the US, enter the US on her US passport?

Please see my reply to asiaexpat. Thanks.

[Maestro]

39 minutes ago, medtechbrah said:

...The problem I see with using Thai passport to book ticket...

 

The suggestion in this post was that the airline ticket should be booked with the US passport.

[QuantumMech]

4 hours ago, medtechbrah said:

 

It's very unlikely that they will check airline ticket but still a possibility.

 

The problem I see with using Thai passport to book ticket enter Thailand is that US would have no record of my mom leaving the country and will raise question when she uses her US passport to get back into USA. Another problem is the possibility of people asking how did she get into the US if Thai passport is blank. Then when she whips out US passport then they would ask why doesn't she just use US passport, etc..

Is it a possibility? I don't know why Thai immigration would ask to see a Thai citizen's plane ticket. I could see them asking that of a non-Thai to see if they have a return trip booked or some other evidence that they're going to leave the country—but that doesn't apply to Thais.

 

My understanding is that US citizens must leave and enter the US using their US passport. The US (generally) doesn't have anyone checking passports when you leave the country, but they do require APIS information for passengers leaving the US. When you book the flight online, you need to supply passport information (name, number, expiration, etc...), which should be the info from the US passport. (Or if you don't supply it, it'll be required when you check in for the flight). So that's how the US knows that she's left the country—they go by the details in the APIS info, not just a name (after all, lots of people have the same name... just knowing that John Smith left the country isn't very useful). The APIS passport name can be different from the name on the ticket, although I've heard that if it is significantly different, there can be some complications.

 

So I agree that she should buy the plane tickets using the name on her US passport. And agree with what others have said about showing only the Thai passport to Thai immigration when entering and leaving Thailand.

[edwardflory]

KISS!!!

Enter and leave Thailand with Thai passport......can't refuse entry to a citizen

Enter and leave USA with American passport......can't refuse entry to a citizen

OR

Do the necessary paperwork to get name on ( Thai? ) passport changed

[medtechbrah]

27 minutes ago, edwardflory said:

KISS!!!

Enter and leave Thailand with Thai passport......can't refuse entry to a citizen

Enter and leave USA with American passport......can't refuse entry to a citizen

OR

Do the necessary paperwork to get name on ( Thai? ) passport changed

That is understood, but the problem lies in which passport to use when booking.

 

Here's the simplified version of each scenario:

 

1a. Book flight to Thailand with US PP -> Enter Thai Immigration with Thai PP = Possible problem with them seeing mismatched name on US ticket and Thai PP, which I don't think will happen

1b. Book flight to US with USA PP -> Departing Thai Immigration showing Thai Passport, which shows mismatched name and mismatched PP used to book flight on ticket

 

2a. Book flight to Thailand with Thai PP -> Enter Thai Immigration with Thai PP = No problem

2b. Book flight to US with US PP -> See 1b -> Enter USA with US PP, but there could be a problem with no record of leaving USA

 

---

 

I should note that this will be a one time thing, where she'll stay in Thailand for a long period of time. She'll most likely come back to US after 2-5+ years. So, I definitely don't want any problem with her reentering US, so I think scenario #1 would be best bet. I just need to figure out the kinks along the way.

 

I do appreciate all the inputs thus far.

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, medtechbrah said:

2b. Book flight to US with US PP -> See 1b -> Enter USA with US PP, but there could be a problem with no record of leaving USA

The US keeps no records of its citizens leaving the country. They don''t even do a entry stamp for citizens.

[edwardflory]

You said she stays 2 - 5 years:

Maybe 2 choices..

DO the necessary paperwork to get name on Thai passport changed in Thailand.  PROBABLY NEED: Certified copies of marriage certificate and translated ( certified ) if in English, copies of your ID's and your Thai Immigration paperwork if any, find out what paperwork is needed

Make sure marriage is registered at US Embassy in Thailand, she can do with her US PP - again know what paperwork needed.

 

I would think...

Probably the Thai Embassy in US can do the paperwork and change name on Thai PP, should be fastest / best / easiest to do because you both are in the US.

 

Somebody married to a Thai lady help out.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, edwardflory said:

DO the necessary paperwork to get name on Thai passport changed in Thailand.  PROBABLY NEED: Certified copies of marriage certificate and translated ( certified ) if in English, copies of your ID's and your Thai Immigration paperwork if any, find out what paperwork is needed

The first step would be doing a name change at an Amphoe to have her name changed on her ID card and house book registry. Then she would apply for a new passport with the new name.

Not sure a Thai embassy can do a name change.

6 minutes ago, edwardflory said:

Make sure marriage is registered at US Embassy in Thailand, she can do with her US PP - again know what paperwork needed.

The US embassy does not register marriages.

[Weddings Parties Anything]

You are worrying about nothing.

 

My wife has her western surname in her western passport and her thai maiden name in the thai passport, given we married overseas and never bothered to change her name here.

 

In the 25 plus years she has been coming and going from Thailand using two passports she never has had an issue. Dual nationality isn't illegal here.  

 

Just about every western country doesn't care about stamp trails. Neither should you. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Weddings Parties Anything

[medtechbrah]

8 minutes ago, Weddings Parties Anything said:

You are worrying about nothing.

 

My wife has her western surname in her western passport and her thai maiden name in the thai passport, given we married overseas and never bothered to change her name here.

 

In the 25 plus years she has been coming and going from Thailand using two passports she never has had an issue. Dual nationality isn't illegal here.  

 

Just about every western country doesn't care about stamp trails. Neither should you. 

Thanks for replying. I don't think it will be an issue, but my mom is constantly worrying about it.

 

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to ask how your wife go about booking flights with her two passports.

[Eff1n2ret]

2 hours ago, Weddings Parties Anything said:

You are worrying about nothing.

 

My wife has her western surname in her western passport and her thai maiden name in the thai passport, given we married overseas and never bothered to change her name here.

 

In the 25 plus years she has been coming and going from Thailand using two passports she never has had an issue. Dual nationality isn't illegal here.  

 

Just about every western country doesn't care about stamp trails. Neither should you. 

+1 - exactly the same for my wife. I always book flights in our married name, because she can travel visa-free either way on her UK passport. Occasionally at flight check-in at Heathrow she shows her Thai passport to the airline to counter any worries they might have that she is travelling on the second half of a return ticket.

 

[Brickhouse]

Thailand does not allow dual citizenship and may cancel her Thai citizenship if they find out she holds a US passport. 

[Crossy]

Just now, Brickhouse said:

Thailand does not allow dual citizenship and may cancel her Thai citizenship if they find out she holds a US passport. 

 

This is quite incorrect.

 

Thailand, like many other countries, does not explicitly permit dual citizenship, but nor does it deny.

 

Many of our members have two or even three nationalities.

 

[richard_smith237]

Op: 

Use your Ticket and US Passport with the same name to Check in for your flight (US to Thailand). 

Use the same US Passport to pass US immigration and security Checks. 

Use your Thai Passport to enter Thailand - On arrival your boarding pass is never checked *(mine never has been). 

You cannot be denied entry in to Thailand with a Thai passport. 

IF upon arrival Immigration do wish to see your boarding pass and question the name difference, you can readily explain the differences showing your US passport, but still enter on your Thai Passport. 

Use your Ticket and US Passport when Checking in for your Flight.

Use your Boarding Pass and Thai Passport when Departing Thailand. A sharp Immigration officer may question the name difference, which you can readily explain upon showing your US Passport. 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

A personal attack of a member has been removed.

[Weddings Parties Anything]

2 hours ago, medtechbrah said:

Thanks for replying. I don't think it will be an issue, but my mom is constantly worrying about it.

 

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to ask how your wife go about booking flights with her two passports.

Generally speaking, if it is for long distance travel to/from the west, then she uses her married name. On the thai side, while the airline checks for visas and the right to enter the destination country (show both passports), thai immigration these days is automatic. Most if not all travelers i see enter/exit through the automatic gates so no one even speaks to you. However even in the old days, the immigration people weren't bothered by the discrepancies. That is the airlines job. 

 

travelling domestically and around SE Asia she tends to use her maiden name, as the thai passport is very handy for most ASEAN countries for not needing visas where westerners generally do (Laos, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia and Vietnam to name a few). 

 

We'll her maiden name changed one day. We've only been married 40 something years, so there is no rush...

Edited May 25, 2017 by Weddings Parties Anything

[Dep714]

I have dual citizenship and different names like your mom.

 

I enter and exit Thailand with my Thai passport so I can stay as long as I want. All I do is scan my fingerprint and smile at the camera. I don't talk to anyone. These are with the new e-passports which I highly recommend you look into if you haven't already.

 

I enter and exit the US on my American passport. When I enter they barely look at the photo page and ask one or two questions. They never look at the stamp but if they ask I will just show them my Thai passport. My British/Thai friend does this in the UK and he gets through just fine.

 

As for the airlines you show whatever passport you booked with. They may ask about your length of stay and visa in which case you can show them your other passport.

 

If in doubt just ask the authorities. It's not like you are doing anything wrong.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Dep714

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

All I can add is: a few years ago a friend of mine made the mistake of showing both his Thai and US passports at Thai immigration and they promptly told him, "Thais are not allowed duel-nationality" and confiscated his Thai passport.

Be careful.

[Pilot3Boz]

On 5/24/2017 at 2:21 AM, Crossy said:

OK my take.

 

On the way out.

1. Book return ticket (if you want) in the name on the US passport.
2. Check-in and leave the US on that passport.
3. Put the US passport away.
4. At Thai immigration show Thai passport. She may have to explain why there are no Thai stamps and she doesn't have a stamped TM6. Possibly need to talk to a supervisor.

 

On the way back.

1. Check-in using US passport, show Thai passport to check-in agent if asked where the entry stamp is (some ask, some don't).
2. Leave Thailand on Thai passport.
3. Enter US on US passport.

 

 

 

This is exactly how she needs to do it.. My wife does this everytime she goes to our home in LOS.. Shes stays 5 months sometimes and never has any issue... She is listed as the owner of the home and the housebook has her name listed in it... Your Mom may have to get added to her parents house book but that would be the only issue at all if any....  Very easy and straight forward to do this type of travel!!!

[SABloke]

All I can add is: a few years ago a friend of mine made the mistake of showing both his Thai and US passports at Thai immigration and they promptly told him, "Thais are not allowed duel-nationality" and confiscated his Thai passport.
Be careful.

A passport is a travel document so all they did was inconvenience your friend...unless they had his name removed from his tabien baan and removed his ID card and went through a long court process he's still very much a Thai citizen. Ask yourself this: If Thailand didn't allow dual citizenship why is Thaksin still a Thai citizen...you really think they wouldn't have pulled the trigger if they could?

[mettech]

Forever my girl friend Thai/Canadian always used both passport and i always worked.Till last April 2017.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

All I can add is: a few years ago a friend of mine made the mistake of showing both his Thai and US passports at Thai immigration and they promptly told him, "Thais are not allowed duel-nationality" and confiscated his Thai passport.

Be careful.

 

Indeed, rule one of holding multiple passports "never show more than one to immigration (or any official other than check-in agents)".

 

A mate who (like me) holds multiple UK passports showed the wrong one to an official in Malaysia. Upon being asked where his entry stamp was he dug out the correct passport. The official went ballistic informing him that nobody could have more than one passport and promptly confiscated and destroyed one (luckily the one without the stamp). No issue other than cost getting the "lost" one replaced.

 

 

[Arkady]

Assuming she has a Thai passport with a biodata chip containing her fingerprints, which I think they all have now, and she flies into Suvaranabhumi, tell her to use the automatic gates, rather than go to a live Immigration officer.  You need to throw a completed TM arrival form into the basket at the automatic gate, which she may not have as you pick them up from the airline when you depart Thailand.  I think they have some lying around or you just say you have lost it and get another.  If this is worrisome, get a friend to pick up an extra one and mail it to her in advance.  If she has to get stamped by an Immigration officer and he tries to refuse to let her in on her Thai passport, she should demand to see the supervisor.  Under the constitution they are prohibited from denying the right of entry to a Thai citizen and whether she has another dozen nationalities and passports is simply none of their business.  No one has ever reported being denied entry on a Thai passport after demanding to see the supervisor.  Immigration is not stupid enough to start a case they can't win in the Administrative Court, even some of the individual officers are idiots who enjoy throwing their wait around and intimidating Thais they think don't have any connections.  They never dare try this sort of stunt on any of the many big shot Thais that have dual nationality.  They politely wai and waive them them through.