Snowden says democracy under threat by attacks on 'fake news'

[webfact]

Snowden says democracy under threat by attacks on 'fake news'

By Axel Bugge

 

Edward Snowden speaks via video link during the Estoril Conferences - Global Challenges, Local Answers in Estoril, Portugal May 30, 2017. REUTERS/Rafael Marchante

 

LISBON (Reuters) - Democracy and political legitimacy are increasingly under threat from attacks by politicians like U.S. President Donald Trump on "fake news" and free speech, former U.S. National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden told a conference on Tuesday.

 

"The costs of autocracy is illegitimacy, and though none of us have wished for this, it is increasingly near," Snowden told the Estoril Conferences, a meeting held this week in Portugal on human rights and migration.

 

Snowden was speaking through video link from Moscow, where he has been in asylum since 2013 after he revealed secret details of surveillance programmes by U.S. intelligence agencies. Many civil rights activists see him as a hero, but at home in the United States he is wanted to stand trial for espionage.

 

He said the world stood at the "crossroads of history", warning that the direction it is heading now is "paved with fear, therein lies the world of walls, literal and figurative."

 

He said surveillance programmes by governments of their citizens, "the denunciation of inconvenient journalism as fake news and the prosecution of those who are speaking facts," represents a world of fear and political illegitimacy.

 

"A government willing to trade public awareness for political comfort may rule, but they do not lead," he said.

 

Snowden criticized the idea that militants represent the biggest threat to western countries, saying the loss of rights was a bigger concern.

 

"Elevating criminals like this is the laziest kind of rhetoric, terrorists for all their evil, are incapable of destroying our rights, or diminishing our societies. They lack the strength (to destroy rights), only we can do that, through unthinking, reflexive fear," he said.

 

"Rights are lost by cowardly laws that are passed in moments of panic, rights are lost to the cringing complicity of leaders who fear the loss of their office more than the loss of our liberty."

 

(Reporting by Axel Bugge; Editing by Andrew Hay)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-31

[darksidedog]

24 minutes ago, webfact said:

"the denunciation of inconvenient journalism as fake news and the prosecution of those who are speaking facts," represents a world of fear and political illegitimacy.

 

I really can't argue with any of the points he makes here, which are perfectly relevant to the situation not just in the US, but here in Thailand, along with many other places.

It took hundreds of years for the average person to obtain Human rights. Many of those hard fought for rights are being undermined, by the very people supposedly in charge of protecting them.

Some respect Snowden, some despise him, but truer words you will not hear anywhere.

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by darksidedog

[ezzra]

The rat has spoken, with all his traitory betrayal and deceit of his motherland, what did he gained out of it? what has changed, very, very little if anything at all, now he's a  pariah and a outcast for ever and ever as well  to his hosts who wouldn't trust a rat, once a rat, always a rat...

[mtls2005]

Russian stooge. He (albeit indirectly, and somewhat unwittingly) helped get Trump elected.

 

He thought a Trump presidency would make it easier on him, but that proved not to be the case.

 

He has about as much authority as Trumps new 3 million Twitter bots.

 

 

[tonray]

Funny coming from a guy who someday may be sharing quarters with Donald himself, after he defects on an overseas trip when it gets too hot in the kitchen.

[funandsuninbangkok]

Snowden is a traitor. Clinton would have let him off just as Obama allowed "Chelsea" off. Let him rot in Moscow. 

 

Real threat to American democracy is fake news. Remember all the stories of no voting fraud?  Fake news

 

https://publicinterestlegal.org/files/Alien-Invasion-II-FINAL.pdf

 

 

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

The rat has spoken, with all his traitory betrayal and deceit of his motherland, 

what did he gained out of it? what has changed, very, very little if anything

at all, now he's a  pariah and a outcast for ever and ever as well  to his hosts

who wouldn't trust a rat, once a rat, always a rat...

                                 Snowden is an enigma.  I watched a full-length interview with him, by Katie Couric.  He came across as thoughtful, intelligent, and somewhat justified in releasing data.  In my view, it's not a black & white scenario.  I believe agencies like the CIA should have secrets, but I also believe that can be over-done.   Once in awhile, someone like Snowden or Daniel Berrigan (Pentagon Papers) comes around to offer some balance.   If not for people like them, the US would be more like a police state, with secrets everywhere, like E.Germany was, or China or N.Korea are today.   A heavy police state is where people are continually watching and ratting on others, and where people can get imprisoned or killed by State agents, for the flimsiest of reasons.   

 

 

[Redline]

3 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Snowden is a traitor. Clinton would have let him off just as Obama allowed "Chelsea" off. Let him rot in Moscow. 

 

Real threat to American democracy is fake news. Remember all the stories of no voting fraud?  Fake news

 

https://publicinterestlegal.org/files/Alien-Invasion-II-FINAL.pdf

 

 

Move to Russia with your fake news

[thaibeachlovers]

Hmmmm. Snowden just lost my support. Given he is sheltering in RUSSIA, I think his opposition to Trump is hypoctritical.

[phantomfiddler]

An attack on "fake news" is a threat against democracy ? Has this apology for a man completely lost the plot ? Spreaders of fake news, on the internet especially, should be tracked down and prosecuted to the full extent of the law !

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I really can't argue with any of the points he makes here, which are perfectly relevant to the situation not just in the US, but here in Thailand, along with many other places.

It took hundreds of years for the average person to obtain Human rights. Many of those hard fought for rights are being undermined, by the very people supposedly in charge of protecting them.

Some respect Snowden, some despise him, but truer words you will not hear anywhere.

 

We have "rights"?

Seriously? 

IMO we only have the right to be cogs in the machine as long as we do what we are told by our lords and masters.

Pink Floyd said it best in The Wall.

All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

and  "Welcome To The Machine"

[wirat69]

If I ever needed an example of bigotry, I would share the responses to this news item!!

[kamahele]

Given that Snowden is being protected by Russia and was shuttled there by Wikileaks, he may not be the best spokesperson concerning the effects of fake news. This despite the fact he is actually correct in his analysis in my opinion.

[Thaidream]

Snowden is absolutely correct in his analysis and I believe History will eventually paint him as one who brought out the truth that was being hidden from the public of a Nation State (the United States) that lost control of its intelligence apparatus and spied on not only every American but the rest of the World. The Us would tell us that we must 'trust' them to do the right thing.

-the Native Americans trusted the US Government by signing treaties that were ignored and ended up with the owners of America confined to reservations and a destruction of their culture.

-Japanese Americans trusted the government and accepted internment during World War II simply because they were of Japanese heritage. It took decades before compensation was given.

- I trusted the Government when I went into the US Army to serve in Vietnam when the Government indicated this was in America's national interest and later found out that the Government lied about the reason for the war. I can't even look at the Vietnam Memorial in Washington DC without utter disbelief and sadness of the events that led to their death.

 

The above are only a few of the instances in which Government wants Americans and others to keep their secrets when people like Daniel Berrigan or  Daniel Ellsberg (author of The Pentagon Papers); "Deep Throat' (leaker during Watergate) and yes Mr Snowden know the truth and  the fact  that the Government has abused their authority.

 

Now, those who control the power (Trump and his minions) are trying to  convince us that its all fake news; that the majority of the media are out to get him- yet he continues to stonewall investigations- completely distorts facts and often lies about policies that will affect millions of Americans.  

Had it not been for the investigative media and patriots like those mentioned above- we as Americans and other citizens of the World would have never heard about the abuses in America or the World such as the Holocaust; the massacre at My Lai; the abuses in Afghanistan and Iraq  of prisoners and the lynchings of black Americans during the days of civil rights.

Fake News- Nothing fake about the truth....

[aslimversgwm]

26 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Snowden is absolutely correct in his analysis and I believe History will eventually paint him as one who brought out the truth that was being hidden from the public of a Nation State (the United States) that lost control of its intelligence apparatus and spied on not only every American but the rest of the World. The Us would tell us that we must 'trust' them to do the right thing.

-the Native Americans trusted the US Government by signing treaties that were ignored and ended up with the owners of America confined to reservations and a destruction of their culture.

-Japanese Americans trusted the government and accepted internment during World War II simply because they were of Japanese heritage. It took decades before compensation was given.

- I trusted the Government when I went into the US Army to serve in Vietnam when the Government indicated this was in America's national interest and later found out that the Government lied about the reason for the war. I can't even look at the Vietnam Memorial in Washington DC without utter disbelief and sadness of the events that led to their death.

 

The above are only a few of the instances in which Government wants Americans and others to keep their secrets when people like Daniel Berrigan or  Daniel Ellsberg (author of The Pentagon Papers); "Deep Throat' (leaker during Watergate) and yes Mr Snowden know the truth and  the fact  that the Government has abused their authority.

 

Now, those who control the power (Trump and his minions) are trying to  convince us that its all fake news; that the majority of the media are out to get him- yet he continues to stonewall investigations- completely distorts facts and often lies about policies that will affect millions of Americans.  

Had it not been for the investigative media and patriots like those mentioned above- we as Americans and other citizens of the World would have never heard about the abuses in America or the World such as the Holocaust; the massacre at My Lai; the abuses in Afghanistan and Iraq  of prisoners and the lynchings of black Americans during the days of civil rights.

Fake News- Nothing fake about the truth....

Well said sir. Spot on analysis.

[JHolmesJr]

at this rate fake news is destined to be the word of the year.

[iReason]

5 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

An attack on "fake news" is a threat against democracy ? Has this apology for a man completely lost the plot ?

 

I don't know who's sillier, you or the two who "like" your bizarre, inverse interpretation of the title of the article,

and what Snowden said:

 

"LISBON (Reuters) - Democracy and political legitimacy are increasingly under threat from

attacks by politicians like U.S. President Donald Trump on "fake news" and free speech,

former U.S. National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden told a conference on Tuesday."

 

"He said surveillance programmes by governments of their citizens,

"the denunciation of inconvenient journalism as fake news and the prosecution of those who are speaking facts,"

represents a world of fear and political illegitimacy."

 

You only read the title, didn't you?

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by iReason

[iReason]

8 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Remember all the stories of no voting fraud?

https://publicinterestlegal.org/files/Alien-Invasion-II-FINAL.pdf

 

Nice graphics.

Where did you get that? InfoWars?

[boomerangutang]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmm. Snowden just lost my support. Given he is sheltering in RUSSIA, I think his opposition to Trump is hypoctritical.

 

5 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

An attack on "fake news" is a threat against democracy ? Has this apology for a man completely lost the plot ? Spreaders of fake news, on the internet especially, should be tracked down and prosecuted to the full extent of the law !

                                  I think you lost the plot, unless you like how Trump keeps howling 'fake news' at all the revelations coming out about his, and his minions' law breaking.  The US news media does a stellar job of reporting, and the mainstream media rarely get stories wrong.  You'll notice that every time Trump whines about 'fake news' he can never back up his name-calling with facts which prove otherwise.  If you think Trump is right, then please name ONE EXAMPLE where he proved a MS media story to be factually wrong.

 

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

We have "rights"?  Seriously?   IMO we only have the right to be cogs in the machine as long as we do what we are told by our lords and masters.  Pink Floyd said it best in The Wall.

All in all you're just another brick in the wall.   and  "Welcome To The Machine"

There are two types of citizens.  One type, who reside in places like N.Korea, China, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, are required to accept what their governments dictate.  Thailand is close to that category, with its un-elected military men telling every Thai (and farang in Thailand) what to think - and what to not think.

 

                   To a large extent, the US, Australia, western Europe and some other places have free presses and allow people to protest peacefully, and don't punish their citizens for expressing ideas which counter the rulers.   

 

                                If you feel like a 'brick in the wall' and you're not a citizen of any the oppressive countries, then it's your mental fixation which is limiting you.  The mind is an amazing organ.  It's capable of numerous different fixations.  I don't know where your mind is fixated, but I strive for freedom and no restrictions.  I'm not 100% there, but am close.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

What is fake news ? Is it a different view of information, situation or events or is it a distortion of information, situation or events ? Today there are very very little unbiased reporting. If any report is bias is it fake news ? Is propaganda for the benefit of national security fake news ? Is the news coverage leading up to the war in Iraq fake news ? Is the manipulation of facts to suite an argument fake news ? The only way to avoid fake news is to seek the truth, but the question then still remain who's truth ?

 

Fake news have always been with us and always will be. The hype about it is part of the propaganda to justify the suppression of free speech. Free speech maybe used to hurt others but in societies with educated people such misuse of free speech is quickly dealt with. If we suppress free speech we shut down the mechanism a democracy use to derive at a consensus about what society believe the collective truth is. A good example of the effect of free speech suppression is the defamation and LM laws here. If you suppress free speech you run the risk of empowering one side while oppressing the other side. We then end with a situation that the person or party which wins an election then have the power to change the truth to their truth and even end up as a dictatorship.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

What is fake news ? Is it a different view of information, situation or events or is it a distortion of information, situation or events ? Today there are very very little unbiased reporting. If any report is bias is it fake news ? Is propaganda for the benefit of national security fake news ? Is the news coverage leading up to the war in Iraq fake news ? Is the manipulation of facts to suite an argument fake news ? The only way to avoid fake news is to seek the truth, but the question then still remain who's truth ?

 

Fake news have always been with us and always will be. The hype about it is part of the propaganda to justify the suppression of free speech. Free speech maybe used to hurt others but in societies with educated people such misuse of free speech is quickly dealt with. If we suppress free speech we shut down the mechanism a democracy use to derive at a consensus about what society believe the collective truth is. A good example of the effect of free speech suppression is the defamation and LM laws here. If you suppress free speech you run the risk of empowering one side while oppressing the other side. We then end with a situation that the person or party which wins an election then have the power to change the truth to their truth and even end up as a dictatorship.

Well, reportedly Trump asked Comey about going after reporters in the USA who were being unkind to him. He has publicly questioned US law which sets a very high bar for public figures to go after the press for libel.

[Fulwell53]

12 hours ago, ezzra said:

The rat has spoken, with all his traitory betrayal and deceit of his motherland, 

what did he gained out of it? what has changed, very, very little if anything

at all, now he's a  pariah and a outcast for ever and ever as well  to his hosts

who wouldn't trust a rat, once a rat, always a rat...

Traitory???

He is or was hounded for telling the truth about how individual privacy and freedom have been massively eroded by the govt in tandem with the new world order of IT conglomerates.

More uncomfortable truths that the biggest bully in the school yard could not cope with.

Govts talk about transparency and enact whistleblowing legislation etc  but the reality is they are massive hypocrites.

If your viewpoint was the prevailing one the us would never have got independence from gb.

[timendres]

Do we want freedom, or don't we? Freedom is not trivial, simple, or free. The founders understood the importance of freedom of speech! And they were right about that. The average person is intelligent enough to read information and decide for themselves what is relevant, what is fake, and make their own decisions. No way that can be 100% perfect, but it is the best way forward. Worried about fake news? Then do a better job of educating your citizens to immunize them against stupidity. It is a necessary investment in a free society.

 

Edward Snowden? I honestly don't know enough to decide if what he did was justified. It may not be possible to know. But the words he spoke in this case ring true: "Elevating criminals like this is the laziest kind of rhetoric, terrorists for all their evil, are incapable of destroying our rights, or diminishing our societies. They lack the strength (to destroy rights), only we can do that, through unthinking, reflexive fear"

[gk10002000]

Snowden is big on saying Democracy but he violated many of the laws in democratic countries that had due process, vetted laws, etc.

[Stargeezr]

Whistle blowers like Snowden are people who have sacrificed their own lives to reveal true facts that shady governments wanted to keep to them selves. The fact that he cannot live in the USA even today shows that what he did was a sacrifice to his own life. Some brand him as a traitor and a rat and such, but I am glad that he revealed the information that he did.  I worry more about the people who are putting out the fake news stories.    I hope that the new citizens of Russia, Stephen Segal and that French actor have paid visits to Snowden while they were in their new country.

Geezer