JHolmesJr Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 32 minutes ago, Khun Han said: In my opinion it was a strategy to avoid having to do a hard brexit. May and her party have been leaned on by people higher up the pecking order. fascinating…..they must be very high on the pecking order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, citybiker said: BBC Daily Politics Andrew Neil made that very point clear in an interview with an excited Labour MP only the day after the result. Even now I'm puzzled at JC continuously going on stating 'I'm ready to serve the country'.... I guess the Labour euphoria is different from the rest of us. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk How it works is Corbyn forms a minority government, puts up a series of bills in the Commons which are Apple Pie giveaways, dares the opposition to vote against and then ups the ante until the Government loses. Then force a vote of confidence which loses and then go to the country and win on momentum. This all assumes that the Tories would abdicate from doing something similar without the DUP. Edited June 10, 2017 by SheungWan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 31 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said: fascinating…..they must be very high on the pecking order. You think that there are no people of power and influence outside elected government? Take a look at Thailand to see a rather blatant example of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Khun Han said: You think that there are no people of power and influence outside elected government? Take a look at Thailand to see a rather blatant example of this. Im not disagreeing….just amazed at the level of dexterity it takes to lose by design….and by just the right amount it takes to give up an absolute majority…thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Just now, JHolmesJr said: Im not disagreeing….just amazed at the level of dexterity it takes to lose by design….and by just the right amount it takes to give up an absolute majority…thats all. Labour, in it's present guise, had an upper limit in this election, which was never threatening to form a government, even a coalition one. It was easy for the Tories to crash, through their suicide manifesto, without actually burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Khun Han said: Labour, in it's present guise, had an upper limit in this election, which was never threatening to form a government, even a coalition one. It was easy for the Tories to crash, through their suicide manifesto, without actually burning. i want to see if any credible news organisation actually reports this angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksidedog Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) I agree with JHolmesJr.. It would be nice to see some credible comments from news organizations, or individuals, that can post anything, without being able to support those comments with reliable facts. Especially, if those views are challenged and have in truth, no ground upon which to stand. Edited: yep! Totally sarcastic. Actually wanted to know why J Holmes spouts opinions about information reliability, and runs from the threads when confronted with contradictory evidence. Vogie, down there forced my hand to reveal this,, because this was originally a pointed at one person comment. Hence the use of the words "or individuals." Edited June 10, 2017 by darksidedog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said: i want to see if any credible news organisation actually reports this angle. You'll probably have to wait a few years unless Wikileaks gets it's hands on something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, darksidedog said: I agree. It would be nice to see some credible comments from news organizations, or individuals, that can post anything, without being able to support those comments with reliable facts. Especially, if those views are challenged and have in truth, no ground upon which to stand. Do you ever use your own brain or totally rely on google? It would be nice sometimes to hear an individual opinion and not one ready made on the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 35 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said: i want to see if any credible news organisation actually reports this angle. You mean apart from the usual Conspiracy Theory nutjob websites? A Big Fat Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 21 minutes ago, vogie said: Do you ever use your own brain or totally rely on google? It would be nice sometimes to hear an individual opinion and not one ready made on the internet? On the one hand it could be a massive conspiracy. On the other hand it could be the ventilations of a person who got it wrong and just can't accept that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Conspiracy my ar$e! I can't believe that anyone would take those comments seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 3 hours ago, darksidedog said: I agree with JHolmesJr.. It would be nice to see some credible comments from news organizations, or individuals, that can post anything, without being able to support those comments with reliable facts. Especially, if those views are challenged and have in truth, no ground upon which to stand. Edited: yep! Totally sarcastic. Actually wanted to know why J Holmes spouts opinions about information reliability, and runs from the threads when confronted with contradictory evidence. Vogie, down there forced my hand to reveal this,, because this was originally a pointed at one person comment. Hence the use of the words "or individuals." you don't sound normal….do you live full time in pattaya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 3 hours ago, SheungWan said: You mean apart from the usual Conspiracy Theory nutjob websites? A Big Fat Zero. yes it sounds very farfetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 6 hours ago, vogie said: I'm certainly no Jeremy Vine, but what are the choices, the Tories either work with DUP or give the reins to Corbyn, there are no other parties to share government with, the LibDems don't want to know. Minority government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauptmannUK Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) What you guys fail to understand is the internal politics of the Conservative party. Mrs May is widely disliked in the party and there will be a few people who are no doubt quite pleased at the outcome. The dislike for May stems from her personality and also historic favouritism shown to her by Cameron. She made a pigs ear of the Home Office but Cameron wouldn't move her because she was one of his most loyal backers. She was truly a 'blowhard' - very tough-sounding speeches on immigration for several years running, which never translated into action. May also has a very odd personality. I attended a Home Office event hosted by May at the 2014 Conservative Conference. Despite the fact that she was the host, she spoke to almost nobody, smiled at almost nobody and in fact looked at almost nobody other than the handful of people in her own small team. She comes across as very introverted and socially awkward - a bit of an oddball. She also seems to have a reputation of being very nasty to her staff. I believe she has few friends of any sort in Westminster. The other thing, of course, is that the vast majority of Conservative MP's backed Remain. Even some so-called Eurosceptics don't actually want to leave. Characters like Bill Cash and John Redwood are really on the fringes of the party. Conservative-supporting organisations (e.g. the EEF and CBI - which I belong to) are also strongly Remain. So there is an overwhelming desire for a very soft Brexit. I am in no doubt that May will be gone within a couple of months, with new leadership and election to follow.. Hard to know who will replace her. I know that Boris is often mentioned in the Press, but I think most Conservatives are fearful he will damage the party further. He's far too unpredictable and gaffe-prone. Edited June 10, 2017 by HauptmannUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said: What you guys fail to understand is the internal politics of the Conservative party. Mrs May is widely disliked in the party and there will be a few people who are no doubt quite pleased at the outcome. The dislike for May stems from her personality and also historic favouritism shown to her by Cameron. She made a pigs ear of the Home Office but Cameron wouldn't move her because she was one of his most loyal backers. She was truly a 'blowhard' - very tough-sounding speeches on immigration for several years running, which never translated into action. May also has a very odd personality. I attended a Home Office event hosted by May at the 2014 Conservative Conference. Despite the fact that she was the host, she spoke to almost nobody, smiled at almost nobody and in fact looked at almost nobody other than the handful of people in her own small team. She comes across as very introverted and socially awkward - a bit of an oddball. She also seems to have a reputation of being very nasty to her staff. I believe she has few friends of any sort in Westminster. The other thing, of course, is that the vast majority of Conservative MP's backed Remain. Even some so-called Eurosceptics don't actually want to leave. Characters like Bill Cash and John Redwood are really on the fringes of the party. Conservative-supporting organisations (e.g. the EEF and CBI - which I belong to) are also strongly Remain. So there is an overwhelming desire for a very soft Brexit. I am in no doubt that May will be gone within a couple of months, with new leadership and election to follow.. Hard to know who will replace her. I know that Boris is often mentioned in the Press, but I think most Conservatives are fearful he will damage the party further. He's far too unpredictable and gaffe-prone. You don't get sacked for not being liked (apologies for the double negative) and whatever the balance of forces inside the Tory Party for soft Brexit, the lack of a decent working majority stops rolling over the hard Brexiteers some of whom would threaten bringing the house down if opposed to any deal. There is one intriguing option in favour of soft Brexit whereby Labour propped up May against the hard brexiteers......... Edited June 10, 2017 by SheungWan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauptmannUK Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 hour ago, SheungWan said: You don't get sacked for not being liked (apologies for the double negative) and whatever the balance of forces inside the Tory Party for soft Brexit, the lack of a decent working majority stops rolling over the hard Brexiteers some of whom would threaten bringing the house down if opposed to any deal. There is one intriguing option in favour of soft Brexit whereby Labour propped up May against the hard brexiteers......... If you are not liked you can't muster supporters. May has no supporters - she is now a leader without followers. She was chosen in a panic and has no natural 'constituency' within the party. I have been a member of the party for several decades - I know how it works. May is already history. The idea of Hard Brexit is history. There will be a new leader and a soft Brexit. I know Boris is the darling of the media, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hammond become PM. He's well liked, got lots of business connections in the 'right industries' (healthcare, construction, oil), ex-World Bank and an internationalist - and he's very risk-averse when it comes to Brexit - which aligns with the concerns of the Party's major backers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 9 hours ago, Khun Han said: Labour, in it's present guise, had an upper limit in this election, which was never threatening to form a government, even a coalition one. It was easy for the Tories to crash, through their suicide manifesto, without actually burning. The Scottish Tories saved the English Conservatives. if those seats had gone to the SNP they would be in even more trouble than now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauptmannUK Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 58 minutes ago, bannork said: The Scottish Tories saved the English Conservatives. if those seats had gone to the SNP they would be in even more trouble than now. Too right! If the SNP had repeated their previous performance we'd likely be looking at a Labour-SNP 'coalition of chaos' right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, bannork said: The Scottish Tories saved the English Conservatives. if those seats had gone to the SNP they would be in even more trouble than now. I think it is rather that the SNP lost them. Nicola's untimely promotion for another referendum was not as popular with her supporters as she thought. Edited June 11, 2017 by owl sees all spelling error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, owl sees all said: I think it is rather that the SNP lost them. Nicola's untimely promotion for another referendum was not as popular with her supporters as she thought. True, perhaps they'll switch or return to Scottish Labour in the next election if they see the party rising from the ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert bloggs Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 16 hours ago, SheungWan said: Even those with the biggest anti-uni chip on their shoulder would like their children to have the opportunity of going on to higher education. What at the university of joined up writing to learn media studies ? thank you Blair and the labour party ,for wrecking education in the UK . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) 47 minutes ago, bert bloggs said: What at the university of joined up writing to learn media studies ? thank you Blair and the labour party ,for wrecking education in the UK . Quite often those wise guys railing most against the awful media studies last read a book about 30 years ago, maybe. Edited June 11, 2017 by SheungWan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegman Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 46 minutes ago, bert bloggs said: What at the university of joined up writing to learn media studies ? thank you Blair and the labour party ,for wrecking education in the UK . Can someone translate this to English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 6 hours ago, HauptmannUK said: What you guys fail to understand is the internal politics of the Conservative party. Mrs May is widely disliked in the party and there will be a few people who are no doubt quite pleased at the outcome. The dislike for May stems from her personality and also historic favouritism shown to her by Cameron. She made a pigs ear of the Home Office but Cameron wouldn't move her because she was one of his most loyal backers. She was truly a 'blowhard' - very tough-sounding speeches on immigration for several years running, which never translated into action. May also has a very odd personality. I attended a Home Office event hosted by May at the 2014 Conservative Conference. Despite the fact that she was the host, she spoke to almost nobody, smiled at almost nobody and in fact looked at almost nobody other than the handful of people in her own small team. She comes across as very introverted and socially awkward - a bit of an oddball. She also seems to have a reputation of being very nasty to her staff. I believe she has few friends of any sort in Westminster. The other thing, of course, is that the vast majority of Conservative MP's backed Remain. Even some so-called Eurosceptics don't actually want to leave. Characters like Bill Cash and John Redwood are really on the fringes of the party. Conservative-supporting organisations (e.g. the EEF and CBI - which I belong to) are also strongly Remain. So there is an overwhelming desire for a very soft Brexit. I am in no doubt that May will be gone within a couple of months, with new leadership and election to follow.. Hard to know who will replace her. I know that Boris is often mentioned in the Press, but I think most Conservatives are fearful he will damage the party further. He's far too unpredictable and gaffe-prone. I am also under the impression that many in the party will have come to the conclusion that Boris Johnson is all about looking after Boris Johnson and that behind the antics is a very dangerous man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 1 minute ago, pegman said: Can someone translate this to English? Can someone translate this into English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 3 hours ago, HauptmannUK said: If you are not liked you can't muster supporters. May has no supporters - she is now a leader without followers. She was chosen in a panic and has no natural 'constituency' within the party. I have been a member of the party for several decades - I know how it works. May is already history. The idea of Hard Brexit is history. There will be a new leader and a soft Brexit. I know Boris is the darling of the media, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hammond become PM. He's well liked, got lots of business connections in the 'right industries' (healthcare, construction, oil), ex-World Bank and an internationalist - and he's very risk-averse when it comes to Brexit - which aligns with the concerns of the Party's major backers. Anybody who has been a member of the Labour Party for several decades needs help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 7 hours ago, Grouse said: Minority government If Labour joins with Conservatives wouldn't there be a majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauptmannUK Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 1 hour ago, SheungWan said: Anybody who has been a member of the Labour Party for several decades needs help. Eh? I have been a member of the *Conservative Party* for several decades (well, 27 years to be exact). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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