Trump being investigated for possible obstruction of justice - Washington Post

[Tchooptip]

4 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

If not for America's system of checks and balances, separation of power, constitution, etc., Trump would be very much like Hitler.  Hasn't stopped him from trying...

 You could open one or two history books...about the exterminations camps, or the Chrystal nacht or the Warsaw's ghetto for instance 

Or maybe you have the same clear vision of Hitler as the Thai people,  then sorry, forget what I'v said 

[KarenBravo]

41 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

I am not a great fan of president Trump but comparing him to Hitler...is probably...a bit too much 

 

I agree, but, there are some disconcerting similarities.

Both came to power by promising to make the country great again.

Both used a populist/nationalist agenda.

Both intimidated their perceived enemies.

Neither of them ran an institution where they had to answer to and be held accountable to other entities, or people.

Both needed praise and adoration.

Both are people that nurse a grudge and believe in retribution against people that cross them.

Both believe that they are always right and won't take advice, even when showed evidence that they were wrong.

Both would never admit they were wrong and use scapegoats to escape responsibility.

Both put their interests above the country's interests.

Both believe that they are the essence of what makes their country great.

Both prize personal loyalty above all else.

Both had a "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality.

 

Hitler was a far better orator, though.

Edited June 15, 2017 by KarenBravo

[Traveler19491]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

As much as I dislike Trump's policies; his agenda and his comportment- he is no dictator. He is somewhat irrational; wily; and unethical as well as a narcissistic meglomaniac.

 

Mr Derscjowitz has some good points- Trump can fire both Comey and Mueller just as Nixon fired the Special Counsel during Watergate.  However, it may be legal but it is certainly not wise. History already tells us what happened o Nixon- his firing of the Special Counsel stated a chain of events that cascaded to a sure impeachment but he resigned first with a sure promise from the incoming President he would be pardoned.  I suspect the same will happen with Trump.

 

The real question is not regarding Comey it is whether Trump was elected because of collusion with Russia and what waas Trump's involvement if any and what did he know and when did he know it.  If that is not enough- there is the emolument issue being investigation which is unconstitutional if true.  Is Trump using the Presidency to gain financial gain either wittingly or unwittingly?   No one can call any of this fake news; one might not believe it- but it exists in reality.

 

If indeed , the Russians were able to hack into the election system- meaning the actual machines that count the votes and change those votes- that would have directly affected the election results and Trump may not actually be President.  The leaked NSA document shows that this is being investigated and there definitely was an attempt to gain access to the machines in 39 States. As an American, I want to know if  Russia gained access and if there was any collusion between anyone- including Trump or Clinton or their staff. I would hope that all Americans and the rest of the World would want to know this.

 

To me, if Trump has nothing to hide- he should vehemently support- a Special Counsel; any investigation into collusion in order to clear up any doubt. The more Trump tweets about fake news;  people out to get him; and generally disses the American system of justice; the courts and individual jurists- the more I and others start to believe there maybe truth in all . 

Methinks, the gentleman protests too much.

 

The sad part of all this is that there are real issues out there that are not being handled: the debt ceiling must be raised but may be held hostage to a potential government shutdown; a universal healthcare bill must be passed- not the nonsense the Republicans are advocating; and a tax reform bill that redistributes money from the 1% to the other 99% just to name a few issues.

Instead, we get useless tweets from Trump in the middle of the night; a cabinet meeting in which each member of the cabinet sings the praises of Trump instead of discussing real issues; and stonewalling from the Attorney General while testifying before Congress.

Very well stated. The fact is that there are issues that have arisen, many as the direct result of either Trump's specific actions, as in the firing of Comey, or his own statements, as in his comment to Lester Holt that he fired Comey due to the Russia investigation and his statement to the Russian ambassador in the Oval Office that Comey was a "nut job". Coupled with Sessions' lie about having no meetings with Russians, Kushner's own meetings with Russians and his attempt to set up a "backchannel" communication network in the Russian embassy, reasonable questions arise as to what, if any, interconnections there are between these and so many other events.

 

I agree that there are myriad serious problems facing the country, and Trump's "hosting" of a cabinet meeting during which NOTHING productive apparently occurred, other than a contest to see who could affix their lips the tightest to the orange one's posterior, did precisely zero to address any of them.

[Tchooptip]

1 minute ago, KarenBravo said:

I agree, but, there are some disconcerting similarities.

Both came to power by promising to make the country great again.

Both used a populist/nationalist agenda.

Both intimidated their perceived enemies.

Neither of them ran an institution where they had to answer to and be held accountable to other entities, or people.

Both needed praise and adoration.

Both are people that nurse a grudge and believe in retribution against people that cross them.

Both believe that they are always right and won't take advice, even when showed evidence that they were wrong.

Both would never admit they were wrong and use scapegoats to escape responsibility.

Both put their interests above the country's interests.

Both believe that they are the essence of what makes their country great.

 

Hitler was a far better orator, though.

? OK I did not see  things in that  light, like that  it would be bad faith to disagree 

[darksidedog]

8 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

I agree, but, there are some disconcerting similarities.

Both came to power by promising to make the country great again.

Both used a populist/nationalist agenda.

Both intimidated their perceived enemies.

Neither of them ran an institution where they had to answer to and be held accountable to other entities, or people.

Both needed praise and adoration.

Both are people that nurse a grudge and believe in retribution against people that cross them.

Both believe that they are always right and won't take advice, even when showed evidence that they were wrong.

Both would never admit they were wrong and use scapegoats to escape responsibility.

Both put their interests above the country's interests.

Both believe that they are the essence of what makes their country great.

Both prize personal loyalty above all else.

Both had a "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality.

 

Hitler was a far better orator, though.

Better looking too!

[digger70]

DT is traveling a fine line,But I think that he has a first class legal team in front of him that inform him how far he can go without getting in to Strife.

[Traveler19491]

1 minute ago, digger70 said:

DT is traveling a fine line,But I think that he has a first class legal team in front of him that inform him how far he can go without getting in to Strife.

No doubt he has the finest legal minds that money can buy. The problem is that due to his gargantuan ego, he refuses to listen to anyone's advice...including his legal team. As has been noted in numerous articles, it is more than likely that they have suggested in the strongest terms possible that he refrain from tweeting, at least before having his tweets checked by legal counsel so as to avoid further damaging his positions. He ignores them, as in the case of his recent rant insisting that the DoJ should have stuck with his first EO on the travel ban and not put out a "politically correct" version, plus doubling down on it being a "travel ban" (his words), which is hurting his case in court. Kennedy may well refer to those tweets as evidence of intent being as he has ruled in a previous case that past comments are fair targets for determining the Constitutionality of an action's intention.

[Revolutionary]

Wow you Trump haters will stop at nothing . I have never seen in America such vitriol from one side because they lost. He will not be impeached. As someone has already said he will be there unless some idiot kills him. He is draining the swamp and the swamp is fighting back . Get used to him go 8 years. The changes are already happening and the old establishment don't like it.

[Peterw42]

42 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

I agree, but, there are some disconcerting similarities.

Both came to power by promising to make the country great again.

Both used a populist/nationalist agenda.

Both intimidated their perceived enemies.

Neither of them ran an institution where they had to answer to and be held accountable to other entities, or people.

Both needed praise and adoration.

Both are people that nurse a grudge and believe in retribution against people that cross them.

Both believe that they are always right and won't take advice, even when showed evidence that they were wrong.

Both would never admit they were wrong and use scapegoats to escape responsibility.

Both put their interests above the country's interests.

Both believe that they are the essence of what makes their country great.

Both prize personal loyalty above all else.

Both had a "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality.

 

Hitler was a far better orator, though.

Could add a couple more.

Both set up their own one-way flow of information outside of the normal channels (that could be altered)

Both eventually shut down the opposition media and replaced it with a propergander department

Both  built large phallic structures, possibly compensating for something.

Both gave the population someone to blame.

Both refer to themselves in the 3rd person

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, Revolutionary said:

He is draining the swamp...

Citation needed.

[boomerangutang]

3 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

This duck is dead before liftoff. Best legal mind in US and a Democrat. Trump innocent

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/06/12/dershowitz-trump-well-within-constitutional-authority-on-comey-flynn-would-this-even-be-question-if-hillary-were-president.html

                        Every time Dershowitz opens his mouth, out come brain farts.  He's a clever verbal illusionist, but even his colleagues and former students attest to him being a nutcase.  He's the kind of guy who could argue with 10,000 words on why water is not wet, or the sun is not hot.  His former incarnation, he was the joker to a royal court, complete with pointed hat and a scepter of jingle bells. 

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, KarenBravo said:

I agree, but, there are some disconcerting similarities.

Both came to power by promising to make the country great again.

Both used a populist/nationalist agenda.

Both intimidated their perceived enemies.

Neither of them ran an institution where they had to answer to and be held accountable to other entities, or people.

Both needed praise and adoration.

Both are people that nurse a grudge and believe in retribution against people that cross them.

Both believe that they are always right and won't take advice, even when showed evidence that they were wrong.

Both would never admit they were wrong and use scapegoats to escape responsibility.

Both put their interests above the country's interests.

Both believe that they are the essence of what makes their country great.

Both prize personal loyalty above all else.

Both had a "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality.

 

Hitler was a far better orator, though.

How they differ:

 

>>> Hitler was a vegetarian.  Trump eats cow meat by the wheelbarrow load.

>>> Hitler contributed to the death of a lot of people. Trump hasn't yet.

>>> Hitler contributed to widespread environmental damage.  Trump is working on that, but still has a way to go.

>>> Hitler could generally be trusted by his Commandants (to not fire them, after publicly praising them). Trump can't be trusted.  Indeed, if Trump smiles at you and says, "You're doing a great job. You can stay on as long as you want" .....that's usually an indication that he's going to rudely fire you soon.

>>>  Hitler was not known to cheat people whom he hired to do construction (and other types of) work for him.  Trump is renown for cheating people by the hundreds.

>>> As far as I've heard, Hitler wasn't a pussy grabber.

>>> Hitler had one girlfriend, whom he married on the last day of their lives.  Trump has had 3 wives and cheated massively on all of them.  

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by boomerangutang

[mikebike]

30 minutes ago, Revolutionary said:

Wow you Trump haters will stop at nothing . I have never seen in America such vitriol from one side because they lost. He will not be impeached. As someone has already said he will be there unless some idiot kills him. He is draining the swamp and the swamp is fighting back . Get used to him go 8 years. The changes are already happening and the old establishment don't like it.

Few if any are spouting vitriol because 45 won. They are spouting vitriol over his actions and policies. Vive la liberté.

[PattayaJames]

Here we go again the WP "citing unidentified officials"

Becomes a headline on the BBC website http://www.bbc.com/news

Citing no more than "US media say"

Yada yada yada

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by PattayaJames

[jb61]

Oh the irony. Mueller is the perfect special counsel to investigate Trump for 'obstruction of justice', since he is an expert on the subject.

Mueller is guilty of doing the same thing he is investigating Trump for.

"special counsel, former FBI Director Robert Mueller, was accused of doing exactly the same thing in a 2011 book in regards to the deaths of the Branch Davidians at Waco, Texas.

 

According to former Georgia Congressman Bob Barr, now special counsel Mueller said nearly the same thing to him during the 1995 Congressional investigation into the 1993 stand-off in Waco, Texas that resulted in the deaths of 76 members of the Branch Davidian cult.

Barr recounts Mueller as saying, “Bob, don’t go too hard on these guys. We know most of them, and they’re good people.”

Yep, Mueller is the perfect guy to conduct the investigation.

How ironic.

[boomerangutang]

                                Even if those of us who want a strong America (Trump fans would call us 'Trump haters') - may still harbor resentment about HRC losing, ....we're justified.   Trump cheated to win the electoral votes, and he had massive assistance from Russian agents and hackers.   In other arenas, if a competitor cheats, that person is eliminated and/or that person's opponent is declared the winner by default.  Other times, the competition is held again.  It often happens in sports, and sometimes in business.

 

                             It's understandable that sort of dynamic can't happen in political campaigns, because cheating is rife.  Everyone expects political contenders cheat and lie.  However, in the 2016 election cycle, Trump and his honchos took things too far.  We're finding out about some of the ways in which Trump cheated, but we've only yet seen a small portion.   Stay tuned.

[jb61]

whoops, sorry, forgot to include the link on Sen. Barr's book about Mueller doing the same he is investigating Trump for.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/10/book-special-counsel-mueller-guilty-of-exactly-what-comey-accused-trump-of-doing/

[Berkshire]

9 minutes ago, jb61 said:

whoops, sorry, forgot to include the link on Sen. Barr's book about Mueller doing the same he is investigating Trump for.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/10/book-special-counsel-mueller-guilty-of-exactly-what-comey-accused-trump-of-doing/

Daily Caller?

 

[ Notes: The Daily Caller is an American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C.. It was founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney.  The Daily Caller produces sensational headlines and has a right wing bias in reporting and has made false claims according to Snopes and Politifact.]

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/

Edited June 15, 2017 by Berkshire

[jb61]

yep, typical. If you can't debunk the information, try character assassination.

Some might fall for it.

 

[Berkshire]

2 minutes ago, jb61 said:

yep, typical. If you can't debunk the information, try character assassination.

Some might fall for it.

 

Trump supporters are notorious for consuming fake news from dubious sources....as you have just adeptly demonstrated.

[Na Lee]

He will fire Mueller, which will be the end of this investigation.

There are rumours in Washington that Mueller's head is on the block. YouTube "The Young Turks" it will enlightens you.

Sent from my BLL-L22 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jb61]

speaking of questionable websites;

 

Snopes.com

Having no formal background or experience in investigative research, Snopes.com is run by a married couple from California who assert their beliefs on controversial issues while pretending to “get to the bottom” of various issues in order to share facts with the public. There is no team of lawyers or public records being scoured here and there are no qualified researchers doing work behind the scenes. Snopes is nothing more than a very popular basement blog that takes on a front as a “fact checking” website. David and Barbara Mikkelson, husband and wife from San Fernando Valley, started their “neutral” blog of shoddy, liberal-bent research over a decade ago, posting time and time again their “final factual words” that aren’t really facts at all. Snopes repeatedly explains away criticisms towards liberal politicians and other leftist public figures while character assassinating conservatives. It’s obvious now that Snopes.com is particularly agenda motivated and biased to help Obama and Hillary Clinton, just as dogmatically as the mainstream media, including CNN, MSNBC, the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, Politifact, and Forbes. (1) (6)

 

 

Politifact.com

PolitiFact Is Guilty of Fact Abuse

Bryan White, who operates the blog PolitiFactBias, did an analysis and according to Human Events found “PolitiFact is not that honest fact-checker. Once widely regarded as a unique, rigorous, and reasonably independent investigator of political claims, PolitiFact now declares conservatives wrong three times more often than liberals. More pointedly, the journalism organization concludes that conservatives have flat-out lied nine times more often than liberals.

 

In the three years since the end of the partnership with CQ, PolitiFact has found a total of 323 conservative claims to be untrue, with 119 of those getting Pants on Fire.

 

In the same time, it’s found 105 liberal claims to be untrue, with just 13 deemed Pants on Fire, according to White’s tally.”

 

PolitiFact tips the scales leftward in two important ways: first by what the fact twisters choose to study and two, by how it interprets what the individual said, up to and including putting words in their mouths.

Nope, no bias here. Move on, nothing to see.

[mikebike]

53 minutes ago, jb61 said:

whoops, sorry, forgot to include the link on Sen. Barr's book about Mueller doing the same he is investigating Trump for.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/10/book-special-counsel-mueller-guilty-of-exactly-what-comey-accused-trump-of-doing/

Was Mueller Barr's boss at the time? Supreme commander by any chance?  See the thang is the boss-subordinate relationship is very important in discerning the difference between a random colleague saying, "don't go hard on these guys", and your boss telling you in a private meeting, which he cleared the room purposely for, that he "hopes" you'll let an investigation go.

 

Your/their "gotcha" is a red herring.

[KarenBravo]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

                                Even if those of us who want a strong America (Trump fans would call us 'Trump haters') - may still harbor resentment about HRC losing, ....we're justified.   Trump cheated to win the electoral votes, and he had massive assistance from Russian agents and hackers.   In other arenas, if a competitor cheats, that person is eliminated and/or that person's opponent is declared the winner by default.  Other times, the competition is held again.  It often happens in sports, and sometimes in business.

 

                             It's understandable that sort of dynamic can't happen in political campaigns, because cheating is rife.  Everyone expects political contenders cheat and lie.  However, in the 2016 election cycle, Trump and his honchos took things too far.  We're finding out about some of the ways in which Trump cheated, but we've only yet seen a small portion.   Stay tuned.

To be fair, the intelligence agencies have said that the Russian interference did not alter the outcome of the election.

As for if Trump cheated i.e. colluded, I doubt that very much. His flunkies might have colluded, but, as yet there is no proof whatsoever in the public domain that anyone colluded with the Russians.

 

Frankly, I don't think Trump would ever ask for help to win........his ego is just too big for him to do that.

[PattayaJames]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

Trump cheated to win the electoral votes, and he had massive assistance from Russian agents and hackers. 

Really. How did he cheat?

Massive assistance from Russian agents and hackers. 

 

[IMA_FARANG]

In my opinion  Donald  Trump"s entire career has been one long attempt to evade responsibility for anything he has done from the start.

So what is different now?

But obviously he or his friends don't care a hoot about my opinions, nor for that matter neither do I care about his opinions.

As of yet however, he has not attempted to stop me from legally expressing my opinion as a U.S citizen,  but I am sure if he could, he would.

[Traveler19491]

2 hours ago, Revolutionary said:

Wow you Trump haters will stop at nothing . I have never seen in America such vitriol from one side because they lost. He will not be impeached. As someone has already said he will be there unless some idiot kills him. He is draining the swamp and the swamp is fighting back . Get used to him go 8 years. The changes are already happening and the old establishment don't like it.

Changes? What are these changes you refer to? Abandoning climate change when even his own cabinet members were advising him not to do so? Discriminating against religious minorities? Those kinds of changes? Unleashing Wall Street and the big banks so that they can once again plunder the American economy so as to inflate the wealth of the 1% even more? Those changes? Attacking a foreign country without Congressional approval? Changes like that? Tweeting from his bedroom about how unfair the NYT is to him while an American SEAL was dying? Revealing classified information to our enemies? Shoving aside a foreign leader for no other reason than to massage his own ego? Are those the kinds of changes you're referring to?

 

See, you're pretty much the same as all the other Trump supporters. You insist that he is doing all these "wonderful" things, but you don't provide the first example. He has signed a bunch of Executive Orders (you know, those thingies that the right got totally unhinged about when Obama used them?) and signed a couple of minor pieces of legislation. He has yet to do anything of significance, and he sure as hell hasn't done anything to benefit real Americans. All of the jobs he has boasted about were already in the pipeline before he was elected. The stock market is simply continuing the run-up that began under Obama and nothing that Trump has done has helped to fuel it, other than that investors are anticipating tax cuts which likely won't be coming for a long time. Insurance companies are pulling out of Obamacare, not because it's a "disaster" (in fact, numerous companies indicated that they would have had a much smaller increase or no increase at all were Trump to come out and specifically state that tax subsidies were going to continue), but because of uncertainty in the marketplace...caused by...wait for it...TRUMP.

 

Sorry, but your effusive praise for the orange one notwithstanding...the tiny-handed wannabe emperor is a disaster.

[Traveler19491]

1 hour ago, jb61 said:

yep, typical. If you can't debunk the information, try character assassination.

Some might fall for it.

 

Before one's character can be assassinated, they must first have the character to assassinate. Carlson doesn't.

[dunroaming]

Enjoyed reading all the similarities to Hitler but there are a couple of differences that are worthy of note.  I believe that Hitler only had one ball whereas Donald (I am not going to Britain if people are going to protest against me) Trump clearly hasn't got any at all.  Secondly although I understand that Hitler liked cats, he never was a pussy grabber.

 

To those who are still defending Trump, you really need to understand the vitriol for what it is.  First of all it is not to do with losing the election as the vitriol is coming from most of the outside world.  Trump is poison and the world doesn't need any more poison.  He is a dangerous lunatic and must be removed.  His political colours are irrelevant.

[Berkshire]

39 minutes ago, IMA_FARANG said:

In my opinion  Donald  Trump"s entire career has been one long attempt to evade responsibility for anything he has done from the start.

So what is different now?

But obviously he or his friends don't care a hoot about my opinions, nor for that matter neither do I care about his opinions.

As of yet however, he has not attempted to stop me from legally expressing my opinion as a U.S citizen,  but I am sure if he could, he would.

Your last sentence is more correct than you know.  Trump loves his Twitter...except when someone disagrees with him.  Then he blocks them....

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/09/politics/trump-twitter-block-users-trnd/index.html