Patong - The Wake

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Yes, there are well behaved Chinese here, mainly young, independent travelers, though, the vast majority on the tours consist of the badly behaved Chinese that we are talking about.

That would be my experience here too KB as I have met a few of the younger ones of that ilk. Perhaps it is the "lo-so" ones on tours who predominate the Patong scene and who have filthy habits and are "socially unaware" of the world around them.

 

And as NKM has said, they don't queue and when they have pushed in front of me in cafes and shops, I firmly tell them "no" and point to the back of the queue........glaring at them until they move. 

[madmax2]

2 hours ago, schlog said:

In 20 years no one need manufacturing in Asia. It all will be done by 3D printing and automatism back in the engineer countries the states and europe. 

Then you will see what millions of hungry day laborer will do.

 

Like the arabians came out from the desert and there they will go back again. Same with the chinese and their history.

 

Keep dreaming, in 20 years time China will be the leading country for 3D printing and everything else, I wont be around then but if i was i would bet a serious amount of money on it as a donation to the Sunshine village Phuket knowing i would not lose the bet  

[NamKangMan]

3 hours ago, madmax2 said:

What a load of rubbish, China's military is much larger than the US, China has nuclear weapons and the US only use nuclear weapons on countries that cannot retaliate  (use them back)

Chinese and asian workers are happy getting a fair days wage for a fair days work that's why all manufacturing has shifted to their countries from the former powerful western countries which are slowly going bankrupt

 

You are really showing your lack of common knowledge again NKM, you need to keep up with whats really happening in the world today, China and Asia is the future for the manufacturing economy

Give in a few more years and some people who come to Thailand now will be back in their home countries catering to Thai and Chinese tourists and hoping to make a living from the money they make doing it and these Thai, Chinese and Asian people will be paying western prices for taxis without continuously whinging about them as poor people do 

By they way plenty of excellent products are coming from China now that were designed as well as manufactured there, they are stealing nothing as you like to claim, fake items still come from China and they are made for western customers mainly who keep this business going 

 

MM2, you are really showing a lack of foresight, and understanding of history.  

 

As Christians and Muslims have fought for centuries, Capitalism has always fought against Communism.

 

My prediction of "war" may have been a little "speculative."  However, as Russia invaded Crimea in recent times, China is "invading" The South China Sea.  The rest of the world slapped sanctions on Russia and isolated it, just when it was really starting to "emerge."  Hence, you saw a drop in Russian tourist in Thailand.

 

You don't think the west would want to "isolate" China at a strategic time?  Do you really think "the baton" of world domination will just be simply handed over?  I don't think so. 

 

As far as westerners catering to Thai's in their own country, this comment gave me a laugh.  Westerners are currently catering to wealthy Chinese, but the only Thai's being catered for are the ones shagging a wealthy foreigner, and a small minority of wealthy / corrupt Thai elite.  Thailand remains 3rd World.

 

As far as the Chinese manufacturing industry is concerned, you are incorrect.  China is trying to move away from manufacturing, and into a service based economy.  

 

Here's a random article on the first page of a Google search:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahsu/2017/02/21/china-takes-another-step-towards-a-service-economy/#315f03ac28c1

 

As another member suggested, all of their manual labor will be redundant in 20 years when robots do the jobs of humans, an issue not just effecting China's workforce, but globally.  Just on this point, you ridicule me on my comments about transport here, but in 20 years time there will be driverless cars  / taxis, so even professional drivers will be out of work. 

 

"By they way plenty of excellent products are coming from China now that were designed as well as manufactured there" - can you give me some examples of some excellent products that were "designed" in China? 

 

I know the Chinese are building the world's largest radio telescope, but did they invent that technology????

 

I know they invented gunpowder, but who perfected its use????

 

[NamKangMan]

13 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

I'm sure they're very afraid of you, big farang man  good for you.

 

I may be bigger in size than the average Chinese person, but I suggest it's not my size that they take notice of.

 

It's the fact that someone has actually confronted them about their unacceptable behavior. 

 

Counter staff need to be trained to send them to the back of the queue, otherwise, there could be incidents of violence, especially at the airport. 

[NamKangMan]

31 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

Keep dreaming, in 20 years time China will be the leading country for 3D printing and everything else, I wont be around then but if i was i would bet a serious amount of money on it as a donation to the Sunshine village Phuket knowing i would not lose the bet  

 

MM2, I have a few questions for you.

 

Have you ever been to China?  If so, how long did you stay there?

 

Over 1.3 billion people require a lot of energy (fossil fuels) Who currently controls most of it?

 

If, as you say, China will be the world's manufacturing hub in 20 years time, who supplies China with the raw materials to do so?

 

Do you remember the Tiananmen Square protest, and more recently, the "umbrella" protest in Hong Kong - what did those people want? 

 

Do you think the majority of the Chinese population are happy with their country's political system?  I think not. 

 

It wouldn't take much for the west, at a strategic time, to "turn the tap off" for energy, food (agriculture) and raw materials, to create civil unrest within China.

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

otherwise, there could be incidents of violence, especially at the airport. 

The problem being that if you remonstrate with them at the airport, they'll just p1ss on you rather than the floor, which they seem to have a penchant for doing!

[LaoPo]

19 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

 

It's the fact that someone has actually confronted them about their unacceptable behavior. 

 

 

 

Have you forgotten you're in Asia...? It's THEIR soil, not yours.

It may occur unacceptable behaviour to you, but maybe not in their eyes.

 

Isn't it so that WE have to adapt to their Asian culture and would you expect foreigners to adapt to the culture and behavior of YOUR country?

 

I think you would.

 

 

[NamKangMan]

6 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

Have you forgotten you're in Asia...? It's THEIR soil, not yours.

It may occur unacceptable behaviour to you, but maybe not in their eyes.

 

Isn't it so that WE have to adapt to their Asian culture and would you expect foreigners to adapt to the culture and behavior of YOUR country?

 

I think you would.

 

 

 

"It's THEIR soil, not yours." - but they want ME and MY money here.  Correct????

 

"Isn't it so that WE have to adapt to their Asian culture" - read again.  I have adapted.  They push in front of me - I push in front of them. 

 

I have seen it that bad where western tourists have turned around and left shops.

 

As mentioned, perhaps some staff training may be required to deal with this situation.  

 

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by NamKangMan

[LaoPo]

12 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

Do you think the majority of the Chinese population are happy with their country's political system?  I think not. 

 

 

It might come as a surprise to you but YES, they are and they adore Xi Jinping, whether WE accept their political system or not.

 

More than 100 top generals and very high members in the Politburo have been arrested and jailed for severe corruption and the man in the street admires him for his war against corruption; Thailand could learn a few things from him.

 

Next to that there is not 1 country in the world and no leaders who could steer an enormous country like China. At this moment, for the next few decades to come, democracy in the system we know will not work for China and civil war would break out.

Luckily China has not the same gun laws like the US has; IF it would be like that the Chinese would also own 1.3 Billion (!) guns in private..(like more than 300 million guns in private hands in the US) can you imagine what would happen ? 

 

But the US gun laws are an exception in the world, thank God and Buddha.

[LaoPo]

1 minute ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"It's THEIR soil, not yours." - but they want ME and MY money here.  Correct????

 

 

 

 

Nobody in Thailand asked YOU to come. It was you who had a desire to come here.

 

Of course they like our money but still YOU have to adapt to their Asian culture and showing off you're a strong man says more about you than you realise.

[LaoPo]

7 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

No, you see it's actually worse.

 

You were not Sir Burr, previously on TV...? 

[LaoPo]

Enjoy your day Gents; I'm out for now 

[sekmet]

I just want bi-monthly updates.

Let's not deteriorate this thread like all the rest.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[LaoPo]

3 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

i motorcycled the whole island ( did over 750kms) up the west coast,around the top, down to mt Batur, over to the east coast and back to Kuta.

Yes its lovely BUT the roads are small, the traffic is terrible on the whole island,(  except some small dirt roads i was on)

Its more expensive than phuket ( even for a small meal like fried rice) in Ubud, Kuta ur hassled alot

Ubud, lovina, Amed, Kuta all very crowded and i was there in the LOw LOw season ( many canceled cause Mt Agung was going to blow)
i couldn't even imagine how crowded it is in the high season.

In 2002 when i was last there i loved it,  Now...wont ever go back

 

 

Thank for your input 

 

Yes, I agree that the roads are so crowded and dangerous with all those crazy drivers. I didn't realise that Bali is (now) more expensive than Phuket although I heard different stories from a friend of mine who like to stay in Seminyak.

 

The strip from Kuta to Seminyak and further seem to have big problems with water since the building spree is crazy so I heard.

 

Well, what will the future bring for our beloved countries...?

We've t travel further, it's the only option

 

When I came to Phuket first time, it was paradise...no more and same-same with Samui and other islands.

[NamKangMan]

27 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

It might come as a surprise to you but YES, they are and they adore Xi Jinping, whether WE accept their political system or not.

 

More than 100 top generals and very high members in the Politburo have been arrested and jailed for severe corruption and the man in the street admires him for his war against corruption; Thailand could learn a few things from him.

 

Next to that there is not 1 country in the world and no leaders who could steer an enormous country like China. At this moment, for the next few decades to come, democracy in the system we know will not work for China and civil war would break out.

Luckily China has not the same gun laws like the US has; IF it would be like that the Chinese would also own 1.3 Billion (!) guns in private..(like more than 300 million guns in private hands in the US) can you imagine what would happen ? 

 

But the US gun laws are an exception in the world, thank God and Buddha.

 

"More than 100 top generals and very high members in the Politburo have been arrested and jailed for severe corruption" - nothing more than a few scapegoats to parade to the public to create an illusion of a "clean" Government.

 

"Luckily China has not the same gun laws like the US has" - yes, lucky for The Communist Party, otherwise there would have been a revolution, and all the corrupt and wealthy politicians rounded up and executed in public.  There is a reason why they disarm the general population. 

 

"they are and they adore Xi Jinping" - of course they 'adore" him.  If they speak out against his leadership, they are sent to "re-education camp."  (gaol)

 

There is plenty of information that shows a large portion of the Chinese population are not happy with the widening wealth divide in China.  Here is a random article.  

 

From the article:  "Poorest quarter of households own just 1 per cent of country’s total wealth." 

 

AND

 

"the richest 1 per cent of households owning a third of the country’s wealth."

 

Oh, yes, I am sure the Chinese people are happy with that situation.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/3c521faa-baa6-11e5-a7cc-280dfe875e28

 

You know why they call it "The Party" - because they are the only ones that get to eat some cake. 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

33 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

Nobody in Thailand asked YOU to come. It was you who had a desire to come here.

 

Of course they like our money but still YOU have to adapt to their Asian culture and showing off you're a strong man says more about you than you realise.

 

As I have said, I have adapted.  I have taken on their behavior.  You know, "When in Rome."  It has nothing to do with my size or strength.

 

However, I see some unhappy and frustrated tourists, who holiday here, and should not have to "adapt" the way expats do.

 

It is interesting that you criticize me for the exact same behavior you condone.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by NamKangMan

[LaoPo]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"More than 100 top generals and very high members in the Politburo have been arrested and jailed for severe corruption" - nothing more than a few scapegoats to parade to the public to create an illusion of a "clean" Government.

 

"Luckily China has not the same gun laws like the US has" - yes, lucky for The Communist Party, otherwise there would have been a revolution, and all the corrupt and wealthy politicians rounded up and executed in public.  There is a reason why they disarm the general population. 

 

"they are and they adore Xi Jinping" - of course they 'adore" him.  If they speak out against his leadership, they are sent to "re-education camp."  (gaol)

 

There is plenty of information that shows a large portion of the Chinese population are not happy with the widening wealth divide in China.  Here is a random article.  

 

From the article:  "Poorest quarter of households own just 1 per cent of country’s total wealth." 

 

AND

 

"the richest 1 per cent of households owning a third of the country’s wealth."

 

Oh, yes, I am sure the Chinese people are happy with that situation.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/3c521faa-baa6-11e5-a7cc-280dfe875e28

 

You know why they call it "The Party" - because they are the only ones that get to eat some cake. 

 

 

 

I bet you've never been to China and your opinion is based on what you read and see in 1 language: English, am I right?

 

It is of no use to debate with ignorant writers about China because IF you had a lot of experience with China, business with  Chinese and knew Chinese who speak English better, you wouldn't talk the way you do.

 

I refrain from further debate and hand the topic back to the OP,  Patong2 and xylophone so he can inform the Patong audience about the technical state of Patong's sewage system and more building- and traffic problems to come next to non-behaving foreigners.

 

Wish you all well 

 

 

 

 

[KarenBravo]

Haven't seen the Vietnam Gambit used in awhile.

Declare victory and then promptly retire.

Well done LaoPo.

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

Have you forgotten you're in Asia...? It's THEIR soil, not yours.

It may occur unacceptable behaviour to you, but maybe not in their eyes.

 

Isn't it so that WE have to adapt to their Asian culture and would you expect foreigners to adapt to the culture and behavior of YOUR country?

 

I think you would.

 

 

I must get the Atlas out again because I wasn't aware that Thailand was now in China, and it is the Chinese we are talking about, as you well know.

 

As for unacceptable behaviour, well all of the Thai people who witnessed the disgusting behaviour of toenail clipping on a cafe table and also shouting and snotting around the place, did not consider this "acceptable behaviour" so I doubt whether the Thai people will want to adapt to these "acceptable behaviours" as you call them.

 

In their eyes this is disgusting and totally unacceptable and I doubt whether any farang I know would want to adapt to this either, or for that matter of learning how to urinate on the airport floor.

 

If you believe that we have to adapt to this behaviour, then perhaps you can sponsor a company that can write books for the visitors  – – "The art of gobbing 50 paces", or "Faecal matter and its placement on pavements", or "The joys of coffee, toenails and dead skin in a Latte".

 

No, neither we nor the Thais have to adapt to this sort of behaviour and hopefully they/we never will.

 

You did promise that you would leave this thread and allow others to post, and suffice it to say that many hundreds of comments have been posted on the subject of Patong over a couple of different threads, so obviously it has done perfectly well without your input up to now.

 

 Goodbye and good luck with mastering the behaviours to which you believe we should adapt.

 

[LaoPo]

On 17-11-2017 at 7:44 AM, schlog said:

Nice read this old topic. Made me laughing and remind about old storys. PhuketRichard was spot on about Brian and the rest. Bruno was Austrian and died 2-3 years ago back in Austria. Maybe i'm lucky my 2 best friends of the old days still here and alive. Keep rocking!

 

 

 

Found an old photo (copyright JK and OdG, friends of mine) with their first Hobycat catamaran ever, on PATONG BEACH...1978, when Patong beach was still a paradise 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by LaoPo

[schlog]

Patong Beach Road

1970/2017

 

[LaoPo]

1 hour ago, schlog said:

Patong Beach Road

1970/2017

 

 

Great photo on the top and exactly as I remember beach road Patong Beach...ahhhhh memories 

 

....and what a nightmare if I see the present situation.....but I know....development continues 

 

Thank you!

[madmax2]

A lot of big hotel/resort chains do not think Phuket is finished as a tourist destination and are still building and opening new resorts on Phuket including in Patong

Maybe they should take the advice of the financial experts on this forum and stop doing it  

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, madmax2 said:

A lot of big hotel/resort chains do not think Phuket is finished as a tourist destination and are still building and opening new resorts on Phuket including in Patong

Maybe they should take the advice of the financial experts on this forum and stop doing it  

There will always be large hotel chains trying to open up new locations and when you think about the amount of large hotels in Patong and Phuket, there is probably room for more. This particularly when within the four walls of the hotels you can find just about every top-class amenity and facility that you want without having to mix with the locals, smell the sewage, and swim in amongst the turds, whilst laying on dirty beaches.

 

There are many resorts/locations around the world where top-class hotels have been built and where the occupancy has dwindled over the years, and one can get some pretty low rates for staying there, so it's not always a good bellwether.

 

Not only that, the folk who post on here are mainly focusing on the situation with regard to the low quality tourists, the rip-offs, taxi scams, the corruption and the fact that many people have lost a lot of money on failed business/investment schemes such as The Park, Ace Condominiums and others.

 

Finally, no matter how hard I look I cannot see this place being a playground for the rich and famous – – low/medium quality tourists in the main with a smattering of moneyed folk perhaps, but nothing more. 

[KarenBravo]

5 hours ago, madmax2 said:

A lot of big hotel/resort chains do not think Phuket is finished as a tourist destination and are still building and opening new resorts on Phuket including in Patong

Maybe they should take the advice of the financial experts on this forum and stop doing it  

A lot of big hotel/resort chains do not own the land, or building.

Typically, Thai investors buy the land, build the hotel and then get one of the big chains to run and manage it. 

[madmax2]

12 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

A lot of big hotel/resort chains do not own the land, or building.

Typically, Thai investors buy the land, build the hotel and then get one of the big chains to run and manage it. 

I think you will find big investors like foreign hotel chains can buy and own land in Thailand for business purposes, so why would they rent or lease it, some may lease but not the majority if they are good business people, which most are and do their own investing, leasing of other investors does not make any sense

 

Its only small investors who just want to buy a house to live in that cannot own land here

I am quite happy for my wife to own our house, otherwise i would not have paid for it in the first place,its going to be only hers in the end and in the mean time i have rent free accommodation for the rest of my life

[AJBangkok]

Actually big chains don’t lease the hotel they either own it or just manage it. It’s a very profitable business model employed all over the world. I think Accor ( Sofitel, Novotel, ibis etc) owns less than half of their hotels, the rest are brand franchised and managed. The local owner of the hotel will pay between 8-12% of gross revenues to Accor and they will run your hotel for you under one of their brands.

Edited November 27, 2017 by AJBangkok

[KarenBravo]

23 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

I think you will find big investors like foreign hotel chains can buy and own land in Thailand for business purposes, so why would they rent or lease it, some may lease but not the majority if they are good business people, which most are and do their own investing, leasing of other investors does not make any sense

 

Its only small investors who just want to buy a house to live in that cannot own land here

I am quite happy for my wife to own our house, otherwise i would not have paid for it in the first place,its going to be only hers in the end and in the mean time i have rent free accommodation for the rest of my life

Yes, they probably could buy the land, but, why would they?

They take fees for operating the hotel, plus a percentage of the profits.

Best Western, Hyatt, Ramada, Ibis etc are all managing hotels in Phuket. They do not own the land, or buildings.

Think about it. Why buy land and building when they can make plenty of money managing them. That is the main business model for these well known brands.

As the owners of these hotels know that an established brand will bring in customers, through a trusted name and through these brands own networks, it makes far more sense (and money) to lease the hotels out than try and start from scratch.

I doubt very much whether any of these world-wide hotel chains actually own the hotels on Phuket.

The big hotel chains have been divesting themselves of properties for decades now. It just doesn't make sense to tie up so much capital in a property. The business model has changed. They are now management companies.

 

 

[KarenBravo]

This is informative.

 

https://www.quora.com/Do-hotel-chains-like-Hilton-Mandarin-or-Marriott-own-their-real-estates-and-buildings

[madmax2]

Just business, own something if its a secure long term investment, Lease it if its not and keep your cash for a investment that is secure long term

I am sure any hotels owned by the hotel chains are the ones which have good long term capital gains and probably very little local competition, they can do this by buying up all the local land suitable for development and developing it themselves according to supply and demand

Laguna is a good example of this way of doing business long term