Thailand to get tough on foreigners working without work permits, employers also targeted

[Kim1950]

Work on the internet is in the Cloud. Why not just go somewhere else. That's a Nomad. You can still have virtual communities. If you are not wanted, why be there. Besides, I wouldn't want to be looking over myself everyday, worrying about being fined or a pay-off or thrown out with short notice. I am not a DM, but I know some are looking to South America. In fact, I am thinking about my long-stay visa to somewhere in South America. I am not looking for easy women , ,Gin Mills, a perpetual Spring Break, or cheap rude tourists,  For quality of life for an Expat, Thailand is falling off the charts. Sad, I had hopes. I do like the land.

[perthperson]

13 minutes ago, Kim1950 said:

Work on the internet is in the Cloud. Why not just go somewhere else. That's a Nomad. You can still have virtual communities. If you are not wanted, why be there. Besides, I wouldn't want to be looking over myself everyday, worrying about being fined or a pay-off or thrown out with short notice. I am not a DM, but I know some are looking to South America. In fact, I am thinking about my long-stay visa to somewhere in South America. I am not looking for easy women , ,Gin Mills, a perpetual Spring Break, or cheap rude tourists,  For quality of life for an Expat, Thailand is falling off the charts. Sad, I had hopes. I do like the land.

For the DN in Thailand the problem is not with securing a WP but ensuring they have a visa to remain in the country legally. The Thai government is succeeding in reducing(choking off) the visa run options the DNs were using. No more double/triple tourist visas and land border visa exempt entries now restricted to two/year. Thai Embassy's/Consulates are making it difficult to obtain  back to back tourist visas by restricting the number they will issue and demanding evidence of finances (bank statements),tickets out of the country and details of accommodation. The days of the DM are coming to  an end as did the days of the Ed visa abuser ! 

[jethro69]

1 hour ago, AloisAmrein said:

 

Jethro69, you are absolutely right. Digital nomads work everywhere where they are, mostly for companies in their home country. And they never ever will ask a government if they allow this. I worked always on my travels and I never asked a government for a work permit. I worked for companies in my home country, so this has not to care the country where I spend money as a tourist.

I was more referring to the Thai thinking arrived in the modern world raher than to DN, no worries...

[jethro69]

The thread has been deviated much towards the Digital Nomads, but as they live/work still in a grey zone let's leave them alone.

What I find shocking is actually what our Thai partners (not all, but a majority) know about all of this. How many times did I hear, you can do this or that, they are absolutely clueless. But what you expect from people who just finished primary school and call 9th grade university.

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, jethro69 said:

The thread has been deviated much towards the Digital Nomads, but as they live/work still in a grey zone let's leave them alone.

What I find shocking is actually what our Thai partners (not all, but a majority) know about all of this. How many times did I hear, you can do this or that, they are absolutely clueless. But what you expect from people who just finished primary school and call 9th grade university.

The people who know the least about a countries immigration laws tend to be the citizens of that country.

 

Why would they know about immigration law when it only applies to everyone else in the world apart from them ?

[brewsterbudgen]

Digital Nomad = DN. What is DM?

[AGareth2]

6 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Digital Nomad = DN. What is DM?

Doc Martens

[dcnx]

On 6/27/2017 at 4:40 PM, robblok said:

 

Too much work to catch a digital nomad and proving the case.. easier to hold them out by not granting visa's

They could always start raiding the co-spaces again. That would net a handful every raid.

[dcnx]

19 hours ago, perthperson said:

 The days of the DM are coming to  an end as did the days of the Ed visa abuser ! 

You can still abuse the ED visa. 

[robblok]

Just now, dcnx said:

They could always start raiding the co-spaces again. That would net a handful every raid.

If they are not doing that that could mean 2 things.. they either don't want to catch them.. or they don't understand them. But a digital nomad does not need a co-space. 

[dcnx]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

If they are not doing that that could mean 2 things.. they either don't want to catch them.. or they don't understand them. But a digital nomad does not need a co-space. 

They raided a few in Chiang Mai a couple of years ago. Everyone was released and CM immigration said they could work as DMs so long as they don't do business in Thailand. Haven't had any problems since, but that could change as quickly as some pooyai visits his fortune teller.

[robblok]

2 hours ago, dcnx said:

They raided a few in Chiang Mai a couple of years ago. Everyone was released and CM immigration said they could work as DMs so long as they don't do business in Thailand. Haven't had any problems since, but that could change as quickly as some pooyai visits his fortune teller.

Did they actually tell that ? Could work here without problems as long as they don't do business in Thailand.. sounds almost too good to be true. 

[AloisAmrein]

Now I am retired. Before I worked everywhere as digital nomad, when I was travelling, for companies in my home country. I never had any problem because nobody knew it. The Thai government lives in a world from yesterday when it wants to prohibit working on the Internet for companies abroad. They simply cannot control it.

Edited July 1, 2017 by AloisAmrein

[bwpage3]

I know a couple of farangs working online with no work permits.  

 

Even though they are paid from USA, their salary is around $28,000 USA a year.

 

They have been in Thailand around 7 - 10 years.

 

A few are married and worry they will get caught.

 

One was dusted by his own wife when they separated and she turned him in and he was deported

 

Besides the work permit issue, who the hell wants to earn so little and live with all the BS required to live in Thailand?

 

Of course most digital nomads will claim they are wealthy, however, if they were, I can think of 1000 other better places to live with better women

 

I am sure if Thai authorities learn they can get away with fining farangs 100,000 baht and up, then put the fine money in their pocket, we will see a lot more farangs getting busted

 

That's really what it comes down to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Besides the work permit issue, who the hell wants to earn so little and live with all the BS required to live in Thailand?

 

Of course most digital nomads will claim they are wealthy, however, if they were, I can think of 1000 other better places to live with better women

 

 

I remember reading an online blog a year or so back about some American DM who was staying in Chiang Mai and writing about how great it was to be there.

 

But then the tourist visa and other visa crackdowns came, and he was posting about ways he was trying to avoid having to show the required $7000 U.S. bank deposit money to get a METV from the Thai consulates in the U.S. -- presumably because he and others didn't actually have that much cash on deposit that they could show to the consulates.

 

[jspill]

8 hours ago, dcnx said:

They could always start raiding the co-spaces again. That would net a handful every raid.

Punspace was raided once because police thought the foreigners were working for Punspace, then all were released when police realised they were just online freelancers.

 

If anything that incident proves working online is fine as long as it has no physical connection to Thailand.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by jspill

[jspill]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Did they actually tell that ? Could work here without problems as long as they don't do business in Thailand.. sounds almost too good to be true. 

"The Punspace members were all released from the immigration office by around 3pm, after officials verified none of the 11 had overstayed their visas, been blacklisted or were working illegally."
 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/10/thailand-immigration-officials-raid-chiang-mai-co-working-space/

 

And then there's this article I'm sure everyone's read, always makes some thaivisa posters freak out and say oh it's only the Dept of Labor that can decide this blah blah 

 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/08/thai-immigration-officials-say-digital-nomads-ok-to-work-on-tourist-visas/

Edited July 1, 2017 by jspill

[jspill]

4 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

I know a couple of farangs working online with no work permits.  

 

Even though they are paid from USA, their salary is around $28,000 USA a year.

 

They have been in Thailand around 7 - 10 years.

 

A few are married and worry they will get caught.

 

One was dusted by his own wife when they separated and she turned him in and he was deported

He must have been doing something that takes jobs from Thais, e.g. an online tour agency. Or she made up something about him. Or she paid enough to corrupt police to get him deported. It's Thailand if you have the funds you can get someone deported this doesn't prove anything. It's the same reason you still shouldn't talk about freelancing online even if it's legal, it's a developing country 2/3rd of the way down the global corruption index you can't exactly expect low level police officers to understand what remote work is. 

 

I'd bet a lot of money that no one will ever be convicted of, say, freelance writing on Upwork for overseas clients, in a Thai courtroom. It just wouldn't ever see court, you'd be told ok we think you're working in some way that takes jobs from Thais, now give us X amount of money or you'll be deported / sit in a jail cell waiting for a court date three weeks from now. 

 

I've been working online here for 7 years I'm not worried at all it would have never crossed my mind that anyone would have one iota of a problem with what I'm doing if I hadn't read Thaivisa

Edited July 1, 2017 by jspill

[jspill]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I remember reading an online blog a year or so back about some American DM who was staying in Chiang Mai and writing about how great it was to be there.

 

But then the tourist visa and other visa crackdowns came, and he was posting about ways he was trying to avoid having to show the required $7000 U.S. bank deposit money to get a METV from the Thai consulates in the U.S. -- presumably because he and others didn't actually have that much cash on deposit that they could show to the consulates.

 

Sounds like JohnnyFD's blog and actually he makes tons of money dropshopping apparently, he was probably writing about ways to avoid it because, duh, he has a blog and people would be interested to know if there's ways around it. 

 

I'm sure some DNs don't have much money, duh it's a low cost of living country. Likewise some retired guys or guys with work permits are scraping by living paycheck to paycheck. 

[Rc2702]

Nice research jspill.

 

[jspill]

5 hours ago, AloisAmrein said:

The Thai government lives in a world from yesterday when it wants to prohibit working on the Internet for companies abroad. They simply cannot control it.

Agree they can't control it but there's actually no evidence they want to prohibit remote working. They've made plenty of statements about cracking down on criminals and people working in Thailand - and they make references to gambling dens, porn, ATM skimmers, etc. - but I've never seen any statement about remote workers and I've been following the news media and thaivisa closely for 7 years. 

[Kim1950]

4 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

 

Even though they are paid from USA, their salary is around $28,000 USA a year.

Besides the work permit issue, who the hell wants to earn so little and live with all the BS required to live in Thailand?

Beats me. I traveled all through Asia for business development for US multinationals long before DN was coined into our lexicon. Nobody ever questioned me about my internet work communication when working, after hours, or on vacation. I suppose, I had a work permit. We paid steep consulting fees to make this transparent. Some say, you can live decently in Thailand on 28K. Maybe, that's a lifestyle choice. That being so, this commentator is right, do some research. There are other places in the world, just as low cost, same infrastructure, more welcome, you can own property, or start your own business. In near all Expat Living reviews for good environments. Thailand is rated low. Why suffer yourself. Learn Spainish. Malaysia does better. Why be where you are not wanted.

[brewsterbudgen]

 
I remember reading an online blog a year or so back about some American DM who was staying in Chiang Mai and writing about how great it was to be there.
 
But then the tourist visa and other visa crackdowns came, and he was posting about ways he was trying to avoid having to show the required $7000 U.S. bank deposit money to get a METV from the Thai consulates in the U.S. -- presumably because he and others didn't actually have that much cash on deposit that they could show to the consulates.
 

What is a DM?

[robblok]

4 hours ago, jspill said:

"The Punspace members were all released from the immigration office by around 3pm, after officials verified none of the 11 had overstayed their visas, been blacklisted or were working illegally."
 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/10/thailand-immigration-officials-raid-chiang-mai-co-working-space/

 

And then there's this article I'm sure everyone's read, always makes some thaivisa posters freak out and say oh it's only the Dept of Labor that can decide this blah blah 

 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/08/thai-immigration-officials-say-digital-nomads-ok-to-work-on-tourist-visas/

I can get why it freaks the OAP's out.. that means young guys can do something different then teaching and make decent money. Soon they will be asked why they can't make money that way 

 

But seriously, in a way it makes sense.. the reason of the law is to protect Thai jobs and when you only work for people in an other country with no Thai connection your not doing that. 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What is a DM?

Dungeon Master ? I am not sure or the poster does not know much about digital Nomads and tries to bash them about money but does not even spell the abbreviation correct. 

[robblok]

3 hours ago, Kim1950 said:

Beats me. I traveled all through Asia for business development for US multinationals long before DN was coined into our lexicon. Nobody ever questioned me about my internet work communication when working, after hours, or on vacation. I suppose, I had a work permit. We paid steep consulting fees to make this transparent. Some say, you can live decently in Thailand on 28K. Maybe, that's a lifestyle choice. That being so, this commentator is right, do some research. There are other places in the world, just as low cost, same infrastructure, more welcome, you can own property, or start your own business. In near all Expat Living reviews for good environments. Thailand is rated low. Why suffer yourself. Learn Spainish. Malaysia does better. Why be where you are not wanted.

28K is a lot more then what most get as a pension or make working as a teacher. I like it here and I can live quite cheap (or expensive). But got the car and home already.. then its not that expensive here anymore. Especially if your not a bar fly and paying for your GF/Wife to stay with you. 

[brewsterbudgen]

38 minutes ago, robblok said:

28K is a lot more then what most get as a pension or make working as a teacher. I like it here and I can live quite cheap (or expensive). But got the car and home already.. then its not that expensive here anymore. Especially if your not a bar fly and paying for your GF/Wife to stay with you. 

Most of the teachers I work with, admittedly in Bangkok, are earning at least 65,000 a month. 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Most of the teachers I work with, admittedly in Bangkok, are earning at least 65,000 a month. 

I believe you, but many make a lot less, point was that 28k (after taxes) is not a little bit of money.  I make quite a bit more then that but I spend only a little bit every month. 

[Happyman58]

53 minutes ago, robblok said:

I can get why it freaks the OAP's out.. that means young guys can do something different then teaching and make decent money. Soon they will be asked why they can't make money that way 

 

But seriously, in a way it makes sense.. the reason of the law is to protect Thai jobs and when you only work for people in an other country with no Thai connection your not doing that. 

As i have said 50 times I am all in favour of Thais getting a job Its there country In fact we have a vacancy now for a waitress  We want to employ Thai people Money is great and work is not hard Plus they can eat as much as they want we have had the sign hanging outside the shop window for 2 months Number of applicants NONE I have a guy who is a waiter there 500 baht plus tips he gets every night 9 hours work but when not busy he just relaxes  My wife is  not a tough boss Have you got any suggestions how the make the Thais work I still believe they would sooner starve then work So bring on the Thai workers we want them

[brewsterbudgen]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I believe you, but many make a lot less, point was that 28k (after taxes) is not a little bit of money.  I make quite a bit more then that but I spend only a little bit every month. 

Sure, some teachers make less.  I just wanted to dispell the myth that all teachers are low paid.  I work for a "boutique" school in central Bangkok, mainly focusing on IELTS/TOEFL/TOEIC/SAT/IGCSE exam preparation, and corporate work.  The starting salary for new (but experienced and qualified) teachers is 65,000 a month.  I earn significantly more than that, but I've worked there nearly 10 years.  Add in overtime, private classes and IELTS examining, many teachers can make 100,000 a month.  I don't think my school is unique!