U.S. prepared to use force on North Korea 'if we must' - U.N. envoy

[UncleFester]

54 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

You are missing something rather important.  China has said that military action is off the table for now and they make the rules over NK.  If the USA were to strike them against the wishes of China then there would be serious consequences for America and I don't think that Trump is going to cross that line.

 

He has already been on his knees pleading with China to intervene but they have just waved him away.

They can wave as we start bombing the idiot in the wicked north.  We can play whack-a-mole with the satellites leveling out the game.  Pyongmouth isn't threatening China, he is threatening allies and us.  So China can <deleted> and they will.  We can crush their fragile economy in a heartbeat and they know it. The non-wildcard is President Trump who unlike the previous occupant, has a pair when it comes to doing the right thing.

[Naam]

3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

 Not only will a good war with North Korea #MAGA make America great again

keep up the good job making me

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Naam said:

keep up the good job making me

Maga schmaga ... how's the bomb shelter business doing in Seoul? 

[Naam]

Quote

UncleFester said:

Rotund man threatens the USA. That cannot stand.  President Trump is not Obama. He will strike. Perhaps you have a better idea? Would you prefer we get on our knees like most of Europe and beg him not to bomb us?

when did Europe get on its knees? in your hallucinating dreams?

[UncleFester]

2 minutes ago, Naam said:

when did Europe get on its knees? in your hallucinating dreams?

Europe, especially Germany is on their knees right now due to the allowed influx of refugees not compatible with your societies.  If you aren't on your knees now, you soon will be.  It's a matter of time.

[Naam]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Maga schmaga ... how's the bomb shelter business doing in Seoul? 

armchair warriors don't like facts. they don't seem to have the faintest idea of the geographic and strategic location of the South Korean capital Seoul where half the country's 50 million inhabitants live.

 

[Naam]

19 minutes ago, UncleFester said:

23 minutes ago, Naam said:

when did Europe get on its knees? in your hallucinating dreams?

Europe, especially Germany is on their knees right now due to the allowed influx of refugees not compatible with your societies.  If you aren't on your knees now, you soon will be.  It's a matter of time.

stop ridiculing yourself my good man. you find those same "incompatible" immigrants since decades all over the U.S. of A. and most of them helped to build a great nation wich has presently a not so great leader.

 

i just returned after a short trip to Germany where i didn't see anybody on his/her kneed. of course i did not attend any church service and might have missed a few who knelt.

 

by the way, we are discussing presently North Korea.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Naam

[UncleFester]

31 minutes ago, Naam said:

stop ridiculing yourself my good man. you find those same "incompatible" immigrants since decades all over the U.S. of A. and most of them helped to build a great nation wich has presently a not so great leader.

 

i just returned after a short trip to Germany where i didn't see anybody on his/her kneed. of course i did not attend any church service and might have missed a few who knelt.

 

by the way, we are discussing presently North Korea.

You asked the question and I answered.  Now you want to return the answer because it didn't fit? The reality of this situation, is Trump is for America first and foremost.  All other countries are second to us. If we are threatened by young muckyluck, we will respond taking into account those Koreans in the South.  But let's be truthful, when it comes to saving the lives of Americans and America, those South Koreans to some extent are expendable.  

 

As to the down on their knees comment, that is easily on topic depending upon your viewpoint and where you are from.  I am only making the point, that we won't be cowed and our elected Leader isn't afraid to rustle some feathers in order to protect the Homeland.  

 

America first.  If you don't like it, go seek citizenship, vote to change it and make a difference.  

[Thongkorn]

Does anyone think China would want  America next to them even if they beat North Korea, dont think So so dont think there will be military action ,

[UncleFester]

9 minutes ago, Thongkorn said:

Does anyone think China would want  America next to them even if they beat North Korea, dont think So so dont think there will be military action ,

You don't understand Donald Trump.

[observer90210]

Now that there is enough global trouble,  initially and partially ignited from the middle east and the Iraq invasion,  the next step is to set fire to the Asian Pacific region?

 

Time to chill down boys and use some good diplomacy as it was done before with NK and worked out fine...

 

Just hope that nobody is stupid enough to start nuking because it would just mean a global "game over"....from Langley to Pyongyang!....and btw, nuke radiation does not stop at a border, just in case...

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, UncleFester said:

They can wave as we start bombing the idiot in the wicked north.  We can play whack-a-mole with the satellites leveling out the game.  Pyongmouth isn't threatening China, he is threatening allies and us.  So China can <deleted> and they will.  We can crush their fragile economy in a heartbeat and they know it. The non-wildcard is President Trump who unlike the previous occupant, has a pair when it comes to doing the right thing.

Kim isn't actually threatening anyone.  He has said (over and over) that if attacked he will defend himself.  As for the "We can crush their fragile economy in a heartbeat" well again you seem to think that the USA has some say in that.  China will decide as they have the only sanctions that would make a difference.  There has  already been sanctions on NK for years but still they carry on regardless.  You really should stop believing that Trump has any say at all when it comes to North Korea.  He will just do what the Chinese allow him to do and nothing else.

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, UncleFester said:

Europe, especially Germany is on their knees right now due to the allowed influx of refugees not compatible with your societies.  If you aren't on your knees now, you soon will be.  It's a matter of time.

Germany today met and signed a free trade deal for the EU and Japan.  Merkel has also had meetings and made agreements this week with China.  Germany on their knees?  you really should wake up and get with the reality.

[Scott]

Please get back on topic.   There are topics about the EU already running.   Feel free to post there.  

[simple1]

4 hours ago, UncleFester said:

You don't understand Donald Trump.

Trump is fumbling as he loses respect from major players in the global community which is further exasperated by his publicly kowtowing to alt right ideology, again proven with his utterances in Poland. BTW Trump seems to be oblivious of Russian contribution to the annihilation of the Warsaw Uprising - no surprise.

 

With regards to N.K. he has not articulated a policy on how to deal with any aftermath should he authorise an attack on N.K. Trump asks for China's assistance, yet doesn't acknowledge their concerns. At the moment it seems Trump only knows about megaphone diplomacy, time for Trump to  learn how to deescalate and constructively engage.

Edited July 6, 2017 by simple1

[F4UCorsair]

7 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Tedious yes but it's frighteningly true for that reason alone it needs to be re-iterated over and over again.

 

North Korea is a worry but Trump wants to make it a "him and me" issue.  He thinks he can put pressure on China but he really can't.

If it needs to be reiterated, it's probably that those doing the reiterating are trying to legitimize the statement, make it fit their preconceived ideas/fantasies??

 

The pressure on China long predates Trump's time in the chair.   He is the one who said that being nice and asking China to assist hasn't worked, so it may have to be escalated.

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[bandito]

Here we go again!

3rd World War.

People are not satisfied before they have murdered each other out.

This will be the Mother of all wars, get ready for the nuclear fallout.  

[owl sees all]

NK is little threat to the the world. All this posing and rhetoric (by both Kim and trump especially) is a smoke screen to cover the real world problems in which the US is at the centre.

 

Make no mistake Trump is a smart cookie. He knows the 1% who controls America. He also knows who controls the 1% (just as JFK did). This order is being challenged by;

 

1 Big business; especially internet and IT based.

2 People's ability to glean the facts/truth/evidence from sources other than traditional means.

3 The worsening state of the US dollar.

 

We have to ask ourselves why there is such trouble in the middle east; just why is NK being demonised;  why the FED (that body who partly controls the 1%) is buying back its own bonds; why the US are seemingly worshiping the Saudies (one of the most despicable regimes in the world). 

 

NK and Iran both have rejected the International banking system (IBS). Accepting the IBS means that the country has lost control of its currency (look at UK). The Saudies can be relied upon to continue dealing in the oil dollar, Iran certainly can't (Sadam didn't; and Iraq paid the price). The real target in the middle east is Iran. Syria was to be the start of a major conflict but Russia got in the way and held firm. China is doing similar with NK.

 

The US ego is huge. It still sees itself as the policeman of the world but it can't pull some countries (and unions) - that have their own agenda - into line. The US needs a big conflict and it need one quickly (within 2 years I reckon). Only a major conflict will allow the US money machine to churn out billions and not have an adverse effect on the dollar.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, dunroaming said:

You are missing something rather important.  China has said that military action is off the table for now and they make the rules over NK.  If the USA were to strike them against the wishes of China then there would be serious consequences for America and I don't think that Trump is going to cross that line.

 

He has already been on his knees pleading with China to intervene but they have just waved him away.

 

What "serious consequences" would those be?

 

If the US was to attack NK (and I'm talking conventional strikes), what would the PRC do? Start a war with the US? On what pretext and to what end? Engage in some economic "warfare"? It's a two way street, and a bit of shooting one's foot. As long as operations are contained, I don't think that there will be anything other than the expected diplomatic barrage and some posturing.

 

Not too long ago, the US carried out an attack on Syria. Despite Russian presence in country and despite warnings issued. There were no "serious consequences".

 

Granted, the scope is different, but as long as there's no direct confrontation between super powers, there's little motivation to risk one.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Maga schmaga ... how's the bomb shelter business doing in Seoul? 

Every cloud has a silver lining.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, UncleFester said:

You don't understand Donald Trump.

 

And I doubt you do too. More than that, I doubt Trump understands Trump.

But as the above is becoming a popular slogan, do feel free to enlighten.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What "serious consequences" would those be?

 

If the US was to attack NK (and I'm talking conventional strikes), what would the PRC do? Start a war with the US? On what pretext and to what end? Engage in some economic "warfare"? It's a two way street, and a bit of shooting one's foot. As long as operations are contained, I don't think that there will be anything other than the expected diplomatic barrage and some posturing.

 

Not too long ago, the US carried out an attack on Syria. Despite Russian presence in country and despite warnings issued. There were no "serious consequences".

 

Granted, the scope is different, but as long as there's no direct confrontation between super powers, there's little motivation to risk one.

Except Syria doesn't border on Russia. And the consequences for China of a US attack on NK could be very severe.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Kim isn't actually threatening anyone.  He has said (over and over) that if attacked he will defend himself.  As for the "We can crush their fragile economy in a heartbeat" well again you seem to think that the USA has some say in that.  China will decide as they have the only sanctions that would make a difference.  There has  already been sanctions on NK for years but still they carry on regardless.  You really should stop believing that Trump has any say at all when it comes to North Korea.  He will just do what the Chinese allow him to do and nothing else.

 

Kim never threatened SK? NK never took aggressive actions against SK? SK does not feel threatened by Kim?

 

Agreed that the "crush their fragile economy" nonsense is just that. Uninformed at best.

 

But "China will decide"? That was, perhaps, the order of things up to now. Like it or not, Trump seems willing enough to disregard such matters.

[ilostmypassword]

What I haven't seen discussed here at all is South Korean reaction to an American attack. I seriously doubt that the current President or the big majority of the South Korean people would support such a move.

[Grubster]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

NK is little threat to the the world. All this posing and rhetoric (by both Kim and trump especially) is a smoke screen to cover the real world problems in which the US is at the centre.

 

Make no mistake Trump is a smart cookie. He knows the 1% who controls America. He also knows who controls the 1% (just as JFK did). This order is being challenged by;

 

1 Big business; especially internet and IT based.

2 People's ability to glean the facts/truth/evidence from sources other than traditional means.

3 The worsening state of the US dollar.

 

We have to ask ourselves why there is such trouble in the middle east; just why is NK being demonised;  why the FED (that body who partly controls the 1%) is buying back its own bonds; why the US are seemingly worshiping the Saudies (one of the most despicable regimes in the world). 

 

NK and Iran both have rejected the International banking system (IBS). Accepting the IBS means that the country has lost control of its currency (look at UK). The Saudies can be relied upon to continue dealing in the oil dollar, Iran certainly can't (Sadam didn't; and Iraq paid the price). The real target in the middle east is Iran. Syria was to be the start of a major conflict but Russia got in the way and held firm. China is doing similar with NK.

 

The US ego is huge. It still sees itself as the policeman of the world but it can't pull some countries (and unions) - that have their own agenda - into line. The US needs a big conflict and it need one quickly (within 2 years I reckon). Only a major conflict will allow the US money machine to churn out billions and not have an adverse effect on the dollar.

I agree that NK is little threat to the world. The 1% are not only from the US, and they do indeed control most of the world now and all soon. I don't understand your thinking on the US dollar.   How is it worsening? What would worsening look like [ up or down]? I think a weaker dollar would be very good for the US.

        I don't like that they suck up to the Saudi's .  Saudi is the third biggest spender on military after the US and China, yes they spend more than Russia.  That may tell a story.

       The war machines will continue until the end of mankind. Think nukes are bad, wait till someone perfects biological warfare.

[Banana7]

China is supporting N. Korea and has done far too little to deter kim.

 

USA doesn't have to resort to armed conflict. There is a very simple solution.

 

USA should put a 2 or 3 dozen thermo-nuclear warhead intercontinental missiles in Japan, with sufficient range to reach N.  Korea and Beijing, Shanghai and a few other Chinese cities on the East coast of mainland China.

 

As soon as USA commences preparations for the missiles in Japan, I bet we would see China making a significant effort to reign in Kim.

 

 

 

[Morch]

25 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Except Syria doesn't border on Russia. And the consequences for China of a US attack on NK could be very severe.

As said - if there's no leakage of fighting to PRC territory, and no PRC casualties - a direct confrontation would be unlikely. Doesn't mean the PRC won't be outraged, stressed and assume an aggressive position.

 

Barring a nuclear strike/incident, what are the possible "very severe" consequences? A host of refugees making their way to the border? It's a humanitarian crisis, no sense in picking a fight with the US over that. NK making a statement by launching some conventional attack on the PRC? No sense in picking a fight with the US over that. NK being absorbed by SK, making for a stronger neighbor with US affiliations? That's a long term proposal, nothing to be done about it at present, and not enough for picking a fight with the US.

 

 

[Morch]

27 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

What I haven't seen discussed here at all is South Korean reaction to an American attack. I seriously doubt that the current President or the big majority of the South Korean people would support such a move.

Indeed. But would that stop Trump for making it?

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

China is supporting N. Korea and has done far too little to deter kim.

 

USA doesn't have to resort to armed conflict. There is a very simple solution.

 

USA should put a 2 or 3 dozen thermo-nuclear warhead intercontinental missiles in Japan, with sufficient range to reach N.  Korea and Beijing, Shanghai and a few other Chinese cities on the East coast of mainland China.

 

As soon as USA commences preparations for the missiles in Japan, I bet we would see China making a significant effort to reign in Kim.

 

 

 

Why worry about putting missiles in Japan, they can park a submarine full of nukes just off the North Korean coast. They already have the capability to launch a missile from Kansas.

[Grubster]

2 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

China is supporting N. Korea and has done far too little to deter kim.

 

USA doesn't have to resort to armed conflict. There is a very simple solution.

 

USA should put a 2 or 3 dozen thermo-nuclear warhead intercontinental missiles in Japan, with sufficient range to reach N.  Korea and Beijing, Shanghai and a few other Chinese cities on the East coast of mainland China.

 

As soon as USA commences preparations for the missiles in Japan, I bet we would see China making a significant effort to reign in Kim.

 

 

 

I don't think Russia or China would allow the US to put missiles in Japan anymore than the US would allow Russia to put them in Cuba.