Entry denied Bangkok Airport

[kingstonkid]

Just now, yellowboat said:

Wasn't there some ASEAN rule where if you get rejected by one country you could not go to another country unless you had current visa is use like a work permit or perhaps the Cambodian long term visas ?

I think the fact that you have an active work permit frm another country would mitigate the fear of you working.  The challenge is if you do the 6 month leave for a month and come back with a fresh 6 month I think

[MaeJoMTB]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

A new passport will not change what is in the Immigration Database, but might not "look as bad" to an IO flipping through the pages.  OTOH, if they have a new 'alert' based on time spent in-county (per another report - 'computer says' - and not from too many visa-exempts), it may make no difference at all.

 

All land borders except Poipet/Aranyaprathet would work, if one has 20K Baht to show - based on what we know right now.

 

As another pointed out, there is no way to prove you do not "intend to work illegally" - any more than prove you do not "intend to rob a bank."  Although "suspicion" is not in the law/order, if this rationale will be used as a reason for denial, there is no way to "prove a negative" - so anyone not holding a Thai work-permit could be denied at any time.  Even someone on an Elite Visa "might intend" to work illegally - though the included payment, some of which undoubtedly goes into well-connected pockets, makes that scenario for denial highly-unlikely.

 

Yes.  As they do not say "how many is too many" or "how much time is too long" - completely arbitrary. 
And, just this one deportation cost several "Thai's monthly income" of funds into the economy, even if he lives a frugal (by Western standards) lifestyle.  When business-incomes drop, people are fired.  It seems they don't care if Cambodians and Vietnamese get jobs, in place of unemployed Thais - as foreigners re-locate to those countries, who are very welcoming.  Looking at construction sites, it appears they don't even care if Thai's jobs are stolen within Thailand by foreigners - as long as a Farang isn't working it.

Most countries don't like you entering as a tourist for more than 6 months in a year ........ I'm guessing he had 3 previous tourist VISAs this year.

 

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Most countries don't like you entering as a tourist for more than 6 months in a year ........ I'm guessing he had 3 previous tourist VISAs this year.

Cambodia, Vietnam, and most other countries on the planet do not care.  Only higher-wage nations care - because of the motivation for people to enter those countries to work there.

 

12 minutes ago, gamini said:

A lot of people seem to think they can just stay in Thailand as long as they like by getting multiple visas. Most countries restrict to a period of six months in a calendar year so why should Thailand be any different. For instance you cannot stay in Australia or New Zealand for  more than six months. If you want to stay longer you have to become a permanent resident, which incidentally is very costly.

How do jobs pay in Austrailia and New Zealand, relative to Thailand?  There lies the answer as to why the immigration polices are different:

People come from higher-wage nations to spend their foreign-sourced income in Thailand - which is beneficial to Thailand - lowering unemployment and increasing wages.

People from lower-wage nations go to higher-wage nations to take jobs from locals, which drives up unemployment and drives-down wages, leading to major social problems.

Edited July 12, 2017 by JackThompson

[perthperson]

4 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Wasn't there some ASEAN rule where if you get rejected by one country you could not go to another country unless you had current visa is use like a work permit or perhaps the Cambodian long term visas ?

 

There is no such  ASEAN rule although any country can decline entry to someone who has been refused elsewhere. 

 

However, Laos does not allow entry by air to those with overstay stamps in their passport.

[Lovethailandelite]

34 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

He was only denied entry for intending to work. To many tourist visas is not a reason for denial of entry under the immigration act.

You can keep using that line as much as you want. Fact is, they are denying entry for too many Tourist visas and using another part of the immigration act to make it stick. It might not suit the agenda of the serial Tourist visa abusers but there it is.

[perthperson]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

How do jobs pay in Austrailia and New Zealand, relative to Thailand?

Jobs in Aus and NZ by in accord with those countries cost of living. More pay, generally speaking in Aus than NZ which is why Aus is popular with New Zealanders who seek employment ! 

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Fact is, they are denying entry for too many Tourist visas

How many ?  

Where do you get your facts from? 

[Nemesis7]

Having a visa doesn't mean you have the right to enter it totally friends on the immigration authorities at the check point. Besides I'm sure some facts are missing here or else in my personal opinion no reason they will deny entry and most interestingly keep you st detention center. 

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, perthperson said:

How many ?  

Where do you get your facts from? 

Get off of this forum a bit more often and you might see it differently. There was a refusal reported at Don Mueng this week with exactly the same scenario. Do you think everybody in Thailand posts in on this board?

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, Lovethailandelite said:

You can keep using that line as much as you want. Fact is, they are denying entry for too many Tourist visas and using another part of the immigration act to make it stick. It might not suit the agenda of the serial Tourist visa abusers but there it is.

It's not a "line" - it is "the law."  By your assessment, the IOs are Being Dishonest in this case.  Sad, but certainly appears to be the case if the OP's post is true.  We can hope the people who did this will be disciplined, but it seems to fit an ongoing pattern at Airports, so I'm not holding my breath.

 

Just now, lkv said:

As a proud owner of an SETV, having had others before, I am looking forward with excitement for other confirmations of denial of entry from existing members with a more substantial contribution (post wise) to this forum.

Until then i will consider it business as usual, ...

For now, just avoid Airports and Poipet as points of entry.  So far, this sort of Dishonest behavior has not been reported, elsewhere.

[Kohphanganlover]

Do I have to submit the bank statements together with the appeal or they will ask me later about that and maybe a friend of mine can bring it to the immigration office? Not sure if I can  print out here some pages and the IO isn't really talkative at all. How long must be the history of the statement? 48h is the deadline to appeal after arriving right? 

[perthperson]

2 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Get off of this forum a bit more often and you might see it differently. There was a refusal reported at Don Mueng this week with exactly the same scenario. Do you think everybody in Thailand posts in on this board?

"Fact is, they are denying entry for too many Tourist visas"

 

So you have no source of fact and are attempting to spread rumour.  Thanks for the confirmation.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

It's not a "line" - it is "the law."  By your assessment, the IOs are Being Dishonest in this case.  Sad, but certainly appears to be the case if the OP's post is true.  We can hope the people who did this will be disciplined, but it seems to fit an ongoing pattern at Airports, so I'm not holding my breath.

 

For now, just avoid Airports and Poipet as points of entry.  So far, this sort of Dishonest behavior has not been reported, elsewhere.

Far to many people are too cock sure of what Immigration can and cannot do. If your so sure about the law, I suggest rather than keep telling everybody what they can and can't do, get yourself to Bangkok, and get him out and stamped in?

[VocalNeal]

26 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

I can tell you that Canadian customs looks at a person's PP and from the recent activity can decide yes or NO the only recourse is to talk to a supervisor.

At the discretion of the immigration official. Probably the same here.  

 

There didn't used to be any problems for say FIFO off-shore rig pigs. They came and went even had houses here., 

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, perthperson said:

"Fact is, they are denying entry for too many Tourist visas"

 

So you have no source of fact and are attempting to spread rumour.  Thanks for the confirmation.

Look at the OP and his post. 'Denied entry for too many Tourist visas'. I will leave it now to the experts in all things immigration and serial deniers that any thing is happening.
Enjoy your day.

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, Kohphanganlover said:

Do I have to submit the bank statements together with the appeal or they will ask me later about that and maybe a friend of mine can bring it to the immigration office? Not sure if I can  print out here some pages and the IO isn't really talkative at all. How long must be the history of the statement? 48h is the deadline to appeal after arriving right? 

They may ask for proof when you do the appeal. I suggest you write up supporting info to attach to the appeal.

They allow you access so you can print out a statement.

The 7 days don't start until the appeal is submitted. 

Edit: Yes  must be submitted within 48 hours.

[perthperson]

Just now, Lovethailandelite said:

Look at the OP and his post. 'Denied entry for too many Tourist visas'. I will leave it now to the experts in all things immigration and serial deniers that any thing is happening.
Enjoy your day.

 

Try again!  The OP was not and cannot be denied entry "for too many Tourist visas" 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

How much longer did you expect before Immigration finally started the clampdown on those living here more or less continuously on Tourist Visas? Do you think they don't know every scam people stupidly like to put on forums and Facebook because they like to look good regarding the swapping of passports, fake hotel and airline bookings etc?
You wouldn't get way with it in most country's. I've no idea why people are surprised it's going to be stopped here.

 

Plus, many foreigners would be horrified if the immigration law / entry processes allowed the 'bad guys', 'undesirable guys' etc., to easily walk into their original country. But somehow want to criticize Thailand for trying to be serious about the same subject.

 

Also in the picture is the total resources needed to totally analyze every person arriving at the incoming passport desks. 

[lkv]

14 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

For now, just avoid Airports and Poipet as points of entry.  So far, this sort of Dishonest behavior has not been reported, elsewhere.

I've been following your posts for a while, you always advise people to have the cash, onward ticket etc, which I started to carry for a while as well, mostly because I have become paranoid due to some threads here.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't have.

 

But advising people to avoid airports is a bit stretched in my opinion. When I start avoiding airports, I will start to avoid Thailand as a whole. I've been through DMK and BKK multiple times without an issue (on tourist visas) as have many others.

 

With Poipet i agree though, there are many believable reports about arbitrary things happening.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by lkv

[Kohphanganlover]

Sorry for late reply. The Internet doesn't work most of the time in the deportation room. I'm 38, from the Netherlands, never overstayed and no red stamps. 

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, Kohphanganlover said:

Sorry for late reply. The Internet doesn't work most of the time in the deportation room. I'm 38, from the Netherlands, never overstayed and no red stamps. 

Why not take a photo of inside the IDC and post that photo on here, to prove to people that you are really there 

[ubonjoe]

Several post have been removed for being off topic, inflammatory and etc. No further notice will be given when posts are removed.

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Plus, many foreigners would be horrified if the immigration law / entry processes allowed the 'bad guys', 'undesirable guys' etc., to easily walk into their original country. But somehow want to criticize Thailand for trying to be serious about the same subject.

Also in the picture is the total resources needed to totally analyze every person arriving at the incoming passport desks. 

Same subject in general - but hardly the same type of case(s).  Immigration policies in my passport-country are useless, because people can literally just "walk around" points of entry, enter illegally, then are free to live, work, take govt-handouts, and get drivers licenses, as if they were legal residents.   Every one of these illegal-immigrants, and even most legal ones, make our nation and citizens poorer.  If ONLY we had the same "problem" as Thailand - "too many" people wanting to come with Their Own Money to Spend into our economy, while taking NO taxpayer-funded handouts and jobs from locals.

 

As to processing entries - yes, I think they need more personnel, so they can do a full-scan of every passport, and ask any relevant questions - to be sure no actual dangerous-people get in.  But there are really only 2 questions to ponder:

1. Is this person a national-security risk (i.e. dangerous / criminal)?
2. Is this person from a country with lower wages than Thailand, thus likely to be here to take a Thai's job?

If "yes" on #1 - bye. 

If "yes" on #2, questions and possible refusal of entry. 

But if "No" on both, where's the problem?
 

"Welfare" in The Netherlands pays better than most Thai-jobs - certainly more than an "under the table" job with no work-permit. 

I cannot find any logic for a denial, other than someone in the chain of authority is angry that a change/limit to Tourist-Visa rules hasn't happened, so they are twisting the law to "do it by other means."  

[Essecola]

It may have been a small mark against him that Netherlands is not G7

[Thai Ron]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You cannot be deported if you never were allowed to enter the country. It is simply a denial of entry not deportation.

You can fly to anywhere with a denial of entry.

I know from 2nd hand experience that this is not true.

They have to ship you back to your country of origin because that is the only country guaranteed to let you in.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Thai Ron said:

I know from 2nd hand experience that this is not true.

They have to ship you back to your country of origin because that is the only country guaranteed to let you in.

What about denial of entry at land borders ?

They send you back to the Country you arrived from, rather than your own Country

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

I know from 2nd hand experience that this is not true.

They have to ship you back to your country of origin because that is the only country guaranteed to let you in.

I still say it is true. I have read many reports of people being denied entry and were allowed to travel to other countries other than their home country.

For those from some countries their home country might be the only one they can go to without a visa for entry.

[Essecola]

There should be some kind of rule on these forums soon. Anytime an "I've been denied entry at the airport" post goes up, set a limit on the # of posts can follow, maybe 80-100. Let the folks rant and have at it for that amount then close the thing off. Anyone that has any helpful advice for the fellow can PM him if they really wanted to rather than a free for all bashing of how the rules are or how IOs should or should not behave..

Edited July 12, 2017 by Essecola

[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

I know from 2nd hand experience that this is not true.

They have to ship you back to your country of origin because that is the only country guaranteed to let you in.

No - many cases of denial of entry, the person was allowed to return to the country they just came from.  Just recently, someone without enough cash was sent back to Laos.

 

This is not Always the case, however, as I recall at least one case where a person denied-entry was NOT allowed to return to Hong Kong, and was sent back to France, instead.  So it seems to be "officer's discretion" as to one's options.

 

I do not know of a case where they were allowed to go to a 3rd Country - maybe it has happened.

[perthperson]

4 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

I know from 2nd hand experience that this is not true.

They have to ship you back to your country of origin because that is the only country guaranteed to let you in.

Your information source is wrong. "They" do not have to ship a person anywhere,  The problem belongs to the individual and the airline they traveled with.  

 

Deportation cannot occur if an individual is denied entry.