Aussie victim blamed for his death by Thai parasailing men

[Dipterocarp]

I have never seen a harness like that (job sites, mountain climbing) with no belt. If the leg loops are not properly secured one would fall right out of it! Looks like they missed a step in preparation putting the strap back through the buckle and nobody caught it. RIP.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Dipterocarp

[Amo]

4 hours ago, happyas said:

 I don't think it would  be probable or likely for it too have been the Aussies fault, but it is quite possible.

As is posted, these particular guys have 10 years operating previously without an accident.

Not saying it was or was not, but wait and see what comes up, instead of constantly Thai bashing and conspiracy theories that abound .

Unless they had made the harness out of old seat belts the harness would never had released by its self.!!!!!!  

My be a comfort  adjustment after take off gone wrong!

Edited July 14, 2017 by Amo
spelling

[Fore Man]

I see this topic has transcended to this newest version...

 

I am beginning to believe that the leg straps failed.  And the deceased simply fell vertically  with nothing else to keep himself soundly secured.  Had they failed, it would be an explanation as to why he suddenly reached out to grab the riser.   If you look at the leg straps just prior to launch, there are no elastic retaining keepers to be seen and the loose ends of both leg straps are dangling free down his legs. The retainers simply allow the excess free ends to be properly folded and stowed.  The ends of properly rigged straps will be rolled over in three thicknesses and overstitched so as to prevent them from sliding through the friction adapter buckle.  This friction adapter buckle is used to take up the slack after clipping into the mating D-ring on the harness.  The friction adapters built-in to the buckle design themselves consist of a sliding metal cam faced with gripping teeth... they might have been badly worn, or more likely the webbing itself was also worn and could slide through the adapter easily, particularly under load. I'd sure like to inspect the ends of those leg straps and the friction adapter hardware that was intended to stay in position but possibly didn't.  It could account entirely for this tragedy. I can't see what type of buckle is used in the video, and there are newer designs used in various chutes, such those intended for parasoaring.  Some harnesses are step-in and custom made for the owner. But the shoddy appearing harness we see in the video clearly has adjustable leg straps. We just don't know their age or serviceability. 

 

Attached is a photo of a typical, older style leg strap and its cadmium-coated B-12 buckling hardware.  This design found its way into tens of thousands of civilian and military skydiving rigs and is pretty much goof proof if maintained properly...a big if.  In the West, these systems must be inspected periodically and serviced only by a licensed parachute rigger; in the USA, this license is issued only by the FAA.  Also in the USA, only a licensed master rigger is authorized to manufacture or modify parts of a harness.  I doubt if there is such overwatch or regulation in Thailand. Notice how the free end is rolled and stitched. If there is an elastic retaining keeper, it's not evident in the photo, but normally added.  If those features are missing due to wear and/or neglect, there's an accident surely waiting to happen.

[psyvolt]

7 minutes ago, jflundy said:

That's not true. About 16 years ago on a package holiday from the UK in a 4 star hotel in Phuket there was information in the room about hiring cars and they gave the exact same warning about having an accident in a hired car!!!

 

Exactly the same text - "If the farang wasn't here, it would never have happened, so it must be his fault" !

Wow, maybe same hotel, but I stayed at one around that date too which said "Farangs who come up with Bu#@s£t cliches must really lead sad lives".

 

Was that the hotel they stayed at?

[hansnl]

4 hours ago, happyas said:

 I don't think it would  be probable or likely for it too have been the Aussies fault, but it is quite possible.

As is posted, these particular guys have 10 years operating previously without an accident.

Not saying it was or was not, but wait and see what comes up, instead of constantly Thai bashing and conspiracy theories that abound .

This is not Thai bashing.

If running an outfit like this, there should be strict safety rules and measures in place.

Obviously, something went wrong.

And also obviously blame should also be for the exploiters of this business.

Stating that for yen years nothing went wrong and the blame must be laid at the customers coffin, so to say, is an example of not taking any responsibility for your business.

And sorry to say, that indeed is a trait found very much in Thai people.

Knowing how often a death of a tourist is easily dusted over, an idea of this happening now also is definitely not strange.

And that is not Thai bashing either.

[natway09]

Lets wait & see what happens & if correct procedure was carried out.

I did this  many times in Bali where the pre sail was about 10 minutes of explanation.

Yes they had a spotter with a whistle facing the back of the boat as a requirement.

Never did tandem though & was not told about the  ejection levers

[psyvolt]

2 minutes ago, hansnl said:

And sorry to say, that indeed is a trait found very much in Thai people.

Knowing how often a death of a tourist is easily dusted over, an idea of this happening now also is definitely not strange.

And that is not Thai bashing either.

Yes it is, because its simply idiotic to say it's a trait of the Thai Ppl. Stupid and racist in fact.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

4 hours ago, Tilacme said:

That's what I was thinking, the thai guy is totally unrestrained and then looks to swing his legs over Rogers head to gain some seating position, and Roger falls almost immediately.

I think this is not correct. What you saw was the Thai guy trying to catch the slipping/falling Aussie. Having done this with this specific guys a few years back I cant believe it has happened as their equipment was good and they knew what they were doing. They however didnt do the tandem with me. What however was different was that there was 2 guys on the boat. When I came down in the water 1 guy jumped in to assist me with getting the harness off. Lets see what comes out but to portray them as not knowing what they do is not correct. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

I think this is not correct. What you saw was the Thai guy trying to catch the slipping/falling Aussie. Having done this with this specific guys a few years back I cant believe it has happened as their equipment was good and they knew what they were doing. They however didnt do the tandem with me. What however was different was that there was 2 guys on the boat. When I came down in the water 1 guy jumped in to assist me with getting the harness off. Lets see what comes out but to portray them as not knowing what they do is not correct. 

Did the guy have leg/crutch straps to stop him falling out......?

[Andaman Al]

4 hours ago, BradWilkins said:

Hard to believe part of the harness doesnt go down around under the groin, and that the Thai tandem steerer seems to be unrestrained.

Looking at the video it appears that there are straps that go around the legs at the top of the groin.

 

As for the operators saying that the guy 'pulled a wrong cord' and 'lifted a hook' and released himself why don't the police simply impound all the equipment and see if that is physically possible to do. It seems to me that the guy on the shoulders leans forwards and pulls quite aggressively to get himself up. Did he break the harness? etc. I cannot see how it can be the tourists fault. Poor guy, he looked so happy as well,  RIP.

[greenchair]

I just don't understand why the Thai climbed up his back. 

[Fore Man]

In response to Transam's post at the bottom of page 5, Please refer to my post # 68.  But this possible explanation doesn't hold water if the deceased fell to his death while still wearing the harness. If that is true, then something else other than failed leg straps caused the problem.  In that case, I posted a possible explanation in an earlier post (#144) in the original form topic covering the incident. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Fore Man
Added clarification

[zyphodb]

Well, no surprises there then.....

 

[spidermike007]

What other reaction could we have expected? Denial, obfuscation, and perhaps a setup, for the authorities to let these worms go, who may have a wealthy backer, who is influential, and is staging this whole charade. What are the chances this foreigner actually let himself go, as they insist? Was he not harnessed in? It is all about the work of cowards. Saving face.

 

Face is no doubt, the greatest form of weakness, a human can engage in. Many will say it is societal, cultural, etc. No matter. It is the absolute and complete lack of the ability to introspect, and look within for the source of any problem, shortcoming, conflict, or issue. It is the polar opposite of spirituality, and therefore an absolute scourge on Buddha, and all of the precepts he taught. By practicing face, you are denying your spiritual heritage. You are refusing to man up. To take responsibility for your actions. If a man or a woman cannot, and will not take responsibility for their actions, the problems they create, the mistakes they make, and the issues they involve themselves in, what are they? Are they still an adult? Are they a complete individual, if they allow themselves to be limited by such infinitely small social convention? 

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Fore Man said:

Please refer to post # 68.  But this possible explanation doesn't hold water if the deceased fell to his death while still wearing the harness. If that is true, then something else other than failed leg straps caused the problem.

Did he have leg straps...?...I saw those flapping in the wind.....

[jane1]

13 minutes ago, Fore Man said:

I see this topic has transcended to this newest version...

 

I am beginning to believe that the leg straps failed.  And the deceased simply fell vertically  with nothing else to keep himself soundly secured.  Had they failed, it would be an explanation as to why he suddenly reached out to grab the riser.   If you look at the leg straps just prior to launch, there are no elastic retaining keepers to be seen and the loose ends of both leg straps are dangling free down his legs. The retainers simply allow the excess free ends to be properly folded and stowed.  The ends of properly rigged straps will be rolled over in three thicknesses and overstitched so as to prevent them from sliding through the friction adapter buckle.  This friction adapter buckle is used to take up the slack after clipping into the mating D-ring on the harness.  The friction adapters built-in to the buckle design themselves consist of a sliding metal cam faced with gripping teeth... they might have been badly worn, or more likely the webbing itself was also worn and could slide through the adapter easily, particularly under load. I'd sure like to inspect the ends of those leg straps and the friction adapter hardware that was intended to stay in position but possibly didn't.  It could account entirely for this tragedy. I can't see what type of buckle is used in the video, and there are newer designs used in various chutes, such those intended for parasoaring.  Some harnesses are step-in and custom made for the owner. But the shoddy appearing harness we see in the video clearly has adjustable leg straps. We just don't know their age or serviceability. 

 

Attached is a photo of a typical, older style leg strap and its cadmium-coated B-12 buckling hardware.  This design found its way into tens of thousands of civilian and military skydiving rigs and is pretty much goof proof if maintained properly...a big if.  In the West, these systems must be inspected periodically and serviced only by a licensed parachute rigger; in the USA, this license is issued only by the FAA.  Also in the USA, only a licensed master rigger is authorized to manufacture or modify parts of a harness.  I doubt if there is such overwatch or regulation in Thailand. Notice how the free end is rolled and stitched. If there is an elastic retaining keeper, it's not evident in the photo, but normally added.  If those features are missing due to wear and/or neglect, there's an accident surely waiting to happen.

 

Thank you, Fore Man for this technical detail. It is what I had been looking for since I first read the news about the tragedy yesterday. I did not understand how the man could've released his own harness in air (as suggested) since it had both the legs strapped in as well as the chest area secured. Is it possible, then, that the leg straps could have failed under strain, then he just slid out of the entire harness? In the video, we see his life jacked clipped on over the harness. 

[p_brownstone]

4 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

There was a saying whenever a farang was involved in an unfortunate incident, for example, a car accident, that 

"If the farang wasn't here, it would never have happened, so it must be his fault" !

 

Unfortunately, quite a few Thais still believe in this theory !

 

Quite ridiculous; an urban myth - frequently, mindlessly, repeated however; as such myths often are.

 

Patrick

[psyvolt]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

for the authorities to let these worms go,

Ummmmm, they haven't let them go. Maybe try getting facts correct before going in with your rambling post.

[Stoker58]

  Somebody help me out here, because I can't understand what I'm seeing. I'm very familiar with paragliding harnesses, so I know a bit about this. Contrary to what some people are saying, he does have straps under his legs. Even if one of these straps failed the other would stop him falling out of the harness.

  The harness is designed to be suspended from the D rings just in front of the tourist's shoulders, and before he takes off you can see that straps have been attached to each D ring. What I can't understand is why, when he took off, he was resting his weight on straps under his armpits and not hanging from the D rings and harness. His arms would quickly have tired in that position, but I can't see why he was in that position in the first place. I also can't see why the harness failed to catch him when he dropped between the straps.

  As for the stupid Thai flying without a harness, he just deserved to die.

[user4643453]

sorry to say this, but if you watch the video closely you can see clearly that the Aussie was at fault for not holding the parachute correctly and it held him from under arm instead on top of shoulder, however the guy that tried to help and untangle did his best, but it is clearly the boat operator, that could have saved the situation if he would have watched what he was doing, especially observed the take off and if seen that something went wrong he could have slowed down or stopped  and both men on parachute would have safely landed. Also the guy who put the harness on should have given clearer instructions. Tragic accident,  

[transam]

Leg straps stop you going anywhere......Does he have lag straps.....?

 

 

[Mises]

As posted in the other thread.

 

The victim definitely falls feet first, at no point does he upend. I am now almost certain he is still wearing the harness, how could he come out of it without upending. Harnesses do not suddenly fail and the crotch straps are there and tightened.

 

It all goes wrong in the video at 2:15 when the straps go under his elbows, this is in part because the victim is holding the link straps between his harness and the sail straps at the wrong end and these seem far too long. The Thai operator appears to pull the sail straps down instead of holding them up and out so they pass under his elbows and he launches with the straps under his armpits. In a previous post I said this would cause a lot of pain but because of the long link straps it would not.

 

So far it is not good but not a disaster, he can't fall because the straps are still attached. At 2:26 the Thai operator reaches around in front of the guy. But to do what? The victim needed to pull his arms in and the sail straps would pass up over his shoulders and he would be correctly hanging from the link straps. At 2:29 he puts his arms out and at 2:31 he brings his arms in and falls but at 2:33 is seen hanging on briefly. He then falls feet first.

 

The above is quite clear in the screenshots.

 

Now the only way the victim could fall is if he or the Thai operator unclipped the link straps from the D loops on the harness - BOTH of them. They were clearly attached earlier in the video at 1:53 when the victim checks them. The link straps would be easy to unclip because there was no tension. One of them did it and the Thai operator says it was the victim but I wonder why he would have done this, would you? As stated above the Thai operator can be seen reaching forward at 2:26 but why would he do such an action? If it was murder it would be the most elaborate conspiracy coolly carried out imaginable. Not likely considering much easier methods. We will never know.

[johnarth]

as a joke, I said to my wife I won't be surprised if they come up with it was vertigo, he panicked and jumped, you can tell by the looks on their faces they did nothing wrong, especially if the boat belongs to a cop.  

[sgracer]

11 minutes ago, greenchair said:

I just don't understand why the Thai climbed up his back. 

 

wanted boom boom?

[balo]

 I don't think it would  be probable or likely for it too have been the Aussies fault, but it is quite possible.
As is posted, these particular guys have 10 years operating previously without an accident.
Not saying it was or was not, but wait and see what comes up, instead of constantly Thai bashing and conspiracy theories that abound .

A theory would be that this time they would get a big pay check for murder him. I would question his new Thai wife. Just a theory of course.

[Peterw42]

44 minutes ago, aussiandrew said:

Watching the video at 1.30 with the naked eye, one can see the harness around his back side is not fitted correctly and in fact is loose.

Sent from my SM-T815Y using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The harness consists of two loops and you put it on like a pair of trousers, it also has a piece of webbing (what you see in the vid) that sits across your butt and takes some of the weight, otherwise the loops dig into your groin.

[Tuk Dua]

I believe the parasailing harness is not designed to be able to be released when it is under load e.g. when the person is airborne, which is indicative that the harness was not correctly attached to the parasail, which as the video shows was quite a hurried activity.

The whole set up is clearly for "single occupancy" and is not designed for an additional person, so what was the other person doing climbing up into the rigging? It appeared that he was snagged by the harness at lift off, and climbed up on to Mr Hussey' shoulders to save himself from falling. This action could have caused the harness to release or to fail.

[Mianoinadme]

4 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

There was a saying whenever a farang was involved in an unfortunate incident, for example, a car accident, that 

"If the farang wasn't here, it would never have happened, so it must be his fault" !

 

Unfortunately, quite a few Thais still believe in this theory !

 

    Unfortunately very true. The original words came from a judge in one of Pattaya's Chonburi road accidents, where a foreigner was involved.

 

   

 

    

[Mianoinadme]

3 minutes ago, Tuk Dua said:

I believe the parasailing harness is not designed to be able to be released when it is under load e.g. when the person is airborne, which is indicative that the harness was not correctly attached to the parasail, which as the video shows was quite a hurried activity.

The whole set up is clearly for "single occupancy" and is not designed for an additional person, so what was the other person doing climbing up into the rigging? It appeared that he was snagged by the harness at lift off, and climbed up on to Mr Hussey' shoulders to save himself from falling. This action could have caused the harness to release or to fail.

+ 1. Spot on. It sounds very understandable to me. 

[Tilacme]

32 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

I think this is not correct. What you saw was the Thai guy trying to catch the slipping/falling Aussie. Having done this with this specific guys a few years back I cant believe it has happened as their equipment was good and they knew what they were doing. They however didnt do the tandem with me. What however was different was that there was 2 guys on the boat. When I came down in the water 1 guy jumped in to assist me with getting the harness off. Lets see what comes out but to portray them as not knowing what they do is not correct. 

I did wonder whether this was a saving move but, consider this. The Thai guy has no restraints so it looks to me like his method is to hold on by pure strength at take off and then leg himself onto and sit on the rope join.  How else is he going stay attached for the duration of the ride?