Owner of Condo I'm Renting Hasn't Paid Building Maintenance Fees for over 3 Years

[garet]

The owner of the condo I've been renting for 3 years in Lardprao hasn't paid the condo maintenance fees (kaa-chai-jaay-suan-glang) for almost 3 and 1/2 years. The unpaid fee for 3 1/2 years is now 95,000 baht.

 

The condo management has been asking me about it for months. Now I'm concerned that the owner expects me to pay this fee.  To the best of my knowledge, it's the condo owner, not the renter who always pays this fee (2,000 Baht per month). My contract doesn't mention this fee.

 

The management of the condo have actually been fair to me and said they know it's not my fault, but if the owner doesn't pay, they will sue them they and will eventually cut the water and not allow  use of the lift. They are giving me some time to try to get a response from the owner first who has been silent about this.

 

Anyone else ever have this problem? 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by garet
Added one sentence, grammar

[Peterw42]

Yes you are right, unless its specifically mentioned in your rental contract, you are not liable for the maintenance fees. It does make for a dilemma as the management do usually cut utilities and access to lifts and car parks etc when owner has not paid. They cant really pursue that course of action with an innocent party renting the condo.

Maybe withholding the rent for a couple of months and the owner will be in contact. Or start paying the rent straight to the condo management to pay off the debt.

[Berkshire]

This fee is absolutely not your responsibility.  Unfortunately, the building association is within their rights to inflict pain on the owner, which of course will directly impact you.  You need to discuss with the owner, and/or make plans to vacate and right soon.

[InMyShadow]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes you are right, unless its specifically mentioned in your rental contract, you are not liable for the maintenance fees. It does make for a dilemma as the management do usually cut utilities and access to lifts and car parks etc when owner has not paid. They cant really pursue that course of action with an innocent party renting the condo.

Maybe withholding the rent for a couple of months and the owner will be in contact. Or start paying the rent straight to the condo management to pay off the debt.

I would not even entertain the idea of diverting payments to juristic . Apart from creating further unnecessary drama the landlord will then keep his deposit for unpaid rent.

[Peterw42]

Just now, InMyShadow said:

I would not even entertain the idea of diverting payments to juristic . Apart from creating further unnecessary drama the landlord will then keep his deposit for unpaid rent.

Yes thats right, but unfortunately OP will probably have to force the owner to take action somehow, even if it is just to force the owner to get in contact. Either way the OP probably needs to look at moving on

[tomwct]

I would stop paying rent, up to the amount of your deposit and then move to another unit for rent. Make sure you have a new contract with you paying the maintenance fees included in your rent. So, if the rent is 15K PER MONTH THE 2K MAINTENANCE IS BUILT IN.

 

[Henryford]

I am surprised they waited 3.5 years, my condo would have cut the water after 6 months.

[catman20]

look for a new condo to rent............its a renters market

[12DrinkMore]

1 hour ago, InMyShadow said:

I would not even entertain the idea of diverting payments to juristic . Apart from creating further unnecessary drama the landlord will then keep his deposit for unpaid rent.

 

If the owner is not paying the maintenance fees, I doubt if he'll be inclined to return the deposit.

[InMyShadow]

If it were me I would stop rent immediately, that will flush him out.

Tell him juristic will cut off the water and he has to pay or you break the lease and deposit back.

It will be to late when they eventually cut the water because the landlord is in the box seat, he knows you will leave and he keeps a nice lit bonus!

[garet]

21 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

If the owner is not paying the maintenance fees, I doubt if he'll be inclined to return the deposit.

Does the owner have any legal grounds to try to sue me for the management fee? I don't think the owner does, as this management fee isn't mentioned at all in the contract, but I don't want to get involved in any lawsuit in Thai courts and legal documents which would likely all be in Thai and a headache to deal with.

[TheFishman1]

Just one question if the fee is 2000 per month and he hasn't paid in 3.5 yrs how does that add up to 95000 bht TIT

[champers]

Penalty fees for overdue / non payment.

[garet]

13 minutes ago, TheFishman1 said:

Just one question if the fee is 2000 per month and he hasn't paid in 3.5 yrs how does that add up to 95000 bht TIT

Well, it's roughly 95,000 baht, and it the total number of months is roughly 3.5 years but it might be 3 years and 8 months. Interest has probably accrued as well.

[3421abc]

I think I would be more concerned about getting the deposit back at this time. Given the owner seems to be a dead beat u will most likely lose it

[jobwolf]

They are not allowed to cut Water or Electricity but they can fast track the Condo for Auction. So don't pay any Rent in advance!!

[csabo]

3 hours ago, tomwct said:

I would stop paying rent, up to the amount of your deposit and then move to another unit for rent. Make sure you have a new contract with you paying the maintenance fees included in your rent. So, if the rent is 15K PER MONTH THE 2K MAINTENANCE IS BUILT IN.

 

Exactly. The owner is shown their style. The deposit will never be returned. Stop paying and start packing before you begin her next victim.

[jippytum]

A recent change in the law during 2017 does not allow for the cutting of basic services to the unit for unpaid arrears .The situation must be resolved by legal action in court. The juristic manage is obliged to take legal action after six months arrears accrue if negotiations with the owner have failed and  The JP manager should not have allowed three and a half years arrears accumulate without action  on behalf of the co owners . The owner will be unable to rent the condo to another tenant should the sitting tenant vacate and the condo can not be sold until are outstanding fees and interest are  paid in full. This matter is 100% the responsibility of the owner not the tenant.

[trogers]

You are renting from a speculator, and not an investor. One who is willing to kill the goose in order to squeeze out a golden egg.

[dbrenn]

Just move. Don't pay the rent on your last month because you'll likelynot get your deposit back. 

[tonboy]

39 minutes ago, jippytum said:

A recent change in the law during 2017 does not allow for the cutting of basic services to the unit for unpaid arrears .The situation must be resolved by legal action in court. The juristic manage is obliged to take legal action after six months arrears accrue if negotiations with the owner have failed and  The JP manager should not have allowed three and a half years arrears accumulate without action  on behalf of the co owners . The owner will be unable to rent the condo to another tenant should the sitting tenant vacate and the condo can not be sold until are outstanding fees and interest are  paid in full. This matter is 100% the responsibility of the owner not the tenant.

the only reasonable answer, take legal action. 

In the mean time, let the owner know that you will pay the rent monthly minus the 2000 baht maintenance fee, which will be payed directly by you to the condo management. Good luck !

[newnative]

Juristic is really asleep at the switch. 3 1/2 years and they are STILL allowing access and haven't turned off the water/blocked public access?  Ridiculous.   In your shoes, I would figure that any day the water will be finally turned off.  I would stop paying rent and start looking for another rental.  As several posters have said, don't expect your security deposit back with such a deadbeat landlord so try to live rent-free for as long as possible to make up some of the difference.   Maybe you could see if the Juristic can give you some  advance warning of when the water will be turned off so you have some time to get into another place.  You could try giving the landlord an ultimatum and see what happens.  Check your rental contract.  It should state that you are responsible for the common fees for you to be liable for them.  If it doesn't state this, you should not be responsible for them..

[Delight]

 In order to keep yourself on the right side of the law -I would seek agreement from the JPM of the condo ,on any proposed strategy,-before I did anything..

 

   The chances are that he/she  will not help

 

In such circumstances it is essential that all the stages have an audit trail

 

So initially write to the JPM . Not by email -ideally via a lawyer .- and insist that all the communication is in writing. E mail can be used(after the hard copy communication  stage ) to inform the other stake holders 

 

 That should fully protect you.

A letter from a professional and respected law firm (English and  Thai languages ) will for certain help

 

 

 

 

 

[Kabula]

I'm not familiar with Thai law, but here is a thought. Before doing anything I would see if the owner is broke or sick. Also, check to see if the condo is mortgaged and what the principal balance is.  The first thing that I would do is determine if the property is in or near foreclosure in the event he is not making mortgage payments. 

 

I would consult with a seasoned, competent Thai lawyer  specializing in real estate, and run the facts by him, her. I would also ask the lawyer if an asset search is available in Thailand.  

 

Ask the lawyer if the following can be done if the owner does not cooperate.

 

If there is no threat of foreclosure I would prepare a letter to the owner outlying the problem giving him10 days to pay the debt in full or send a letter explaining why he is ignoring his financial responsibilities. 

 

Tell him if the debt is not paid in full, and the utilities are shut off you will be forced to vacate the condo temporarily as it's not livable without water and electricity. Tell him you will be forced to file a breach of contract civil complaint for all financial damages for additional living and seek a lien against the condo. Also, tell him all future rent payments will be made directly to the condo until he makes your losses whole.  Send the letter certified mail, return receipt requested, or registered with tracking.

 

In discovery I would  subpoena the owners credit report and a list of all monthly income, expenses and assets.

 

I would not move out. You might consider going to a hotel temporarily and include the bill and all restaurant expenses as damages depending on the circumstances.  I would also ask for punitive damages from the court for being forced to pay rent directly to the condo so your personal property is not confiscated.

 

You might end up owning the condo!

 

If the situation looks like a nightmare, I would make arrangements to vacate and move, but leave some personal property of little value until the security deposit was refunded. Stay as long as you can rent free  in case the security deposit is never paid.  Prior to leaving I would do a video and still, close up  photography of the entire premises making note of any scratches, marks on walls, any damages and have a witness present to sign an affidavit confirming same.  The condo manager would be a good witness. 

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bazza73]

Lie a lot. Tell the owner you are paying the rent directly to the condo management until the unpaid fees are met. Tell the juristic person you will sue the owner if your water and electricity is cut off. Tell the owner you have changed the locks on the condo door. Tell the juristic person you depend on a ventilator, and if they cut off the power it could kill you. Meantime, suck up as much of the security deposit as you can. Then get out, after setting up digs with someone who isn't dysfunctional.

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, jippytum said:

A recent change in the law during 2017 does not allow for the cutting of basic services to the unit for unpaid arrears .

 

I'm not aware of any such change. Please specify what it is. Cutting off services and utilities provided and billed by the building has always been legal. Cutting off services and utilities provided by third parties never has. Electricity normally falls in the latter group, but water generally falls in the former.

 

 

4 hours ago, jippytum said:

The owner will be unable to rent the condo to another tenant should the sitting tenant vacate.....

 

Why?

[smutcakes]

1 hour ago, Kabula said:

I'm not familiar with Thai law, but here is a thought. Before doing anything I would see if the owner is broke or sick. Also, check to see if the condo is mortgaged and what the principal balance is.  The first thing that I would do is determine if the property is in or near foreclosure in the event he is not making mortgage payments. 

 

I would consult with a seasoned, competent Thai lawyer  specializing in real estate, and run the facts by him, her. I would also ask the lawyer if an asset search is available in Thailand.  

 

Ask the lawyer if the following can be done if the owner does not cooperate.

 

If there is no threat of foreclosure I would prepare a letter to the owner outlying the problem giving him10 days to pay the debt in full or send a letter explaining why he is ignoring his financial responsibilities. 

 

Tell him if the debt is not paid in full, and the utilities are shut off you will be forced to vacate the condo temporarily as it's not livable without water and electricity. Tell him you will be forced to file a breach of contract civil complaint for all financial damages for additional living and seek a lien against the condo. Also, tell him all future rent payments will be made directly to the condo until he makes your losses whole.  Send the letter certified mail, return receipt requested, or registered with tracking.

 

In discovery I would  subpoena the owners credit report and a list of all monthly income, expenses and assets.

 

I would not move out. You might consider going to a hotel temporarily and include the bill and all restaurant expenses as damages depending on the circumstances.  I would also ask for punitive damages from the court for being forced to pay rent directly to the condo so your personal property is not confiscated.

 

You might end up owning the condo!

 

If the situation looks like a nightmare, I would make arrangements to vacate and move, but leave some personal property of little value until the security deposit was refunded. Stay as long as you can rent free  in case the security deposit is never paid.  Prior to leaving I would do a video and still, close up  photography of the entire premises making note of any scratches, marks on walls, any damages and have a witness present to sign an affidavit confirming same.  The condo manager would be a good witness. 

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your living in dream world. "in discovery i would subpoena..." lol

 

Just move, it is always a hassle moving but trying to do anything legally would just waste your time, energy and money.

[phantomfiddler]

7 hours ago, TheFishman1 said:

Just one question if the fee is 2000 per month and he hasn't paid in 3.5 yrs how does that add up to 95000 bht TIT

Comes to 84,000, but maybe there are late payment penalties ?

[andytyl]

You may have problem getting your deposit back from this kind of owner. Good luck on that if you are moving out.

[InMyShadow]

Comes to 84,000, but maybe there are late payment penalties ?

Yes of course there are . But I'm shocked juristic waited 3 years!

I'f Im late paying water rates after 3 months (usually 300 baht) I get a note under the door with cut off looming