Some tourist visa holders being asked to show 20,000 baht in CASH when entering Thailand

[jspill]

Just now, lkv said:

The problem is you're not stating what I define to be facts.

 

You're putting together some very dubious reports from posters with zero history here or what seems to be "made up" history, and some people that you say personally know, multiplying it with numbers (it must be higher because not everybody is on TV),and drawing up a doom and gloom conclusion.

 

The issue is the credibility of the reports to begin with.

No all I'm doing is saying X number of reports exist. Then yourself and PJ want to quash discussion - I don't mind if you believe there's an issue or not, I'm just posting facts for the benefit of people reading. They can decide.

 

There will never be any way to know if something on the internet is true or false, there could be 1000 reports and that line of logic would still apply. And yes we never know both sides of the story. 

 

Yes I know 4 guys personally that were denied, people can choose to dismiss that or not, up to them, I'd like to think I come off as someone credible. My posting history is longer than yours and PJ's combined. I've been on the forum going on 8 years, 10k posts across various forums. Up to you as they say.

 

As for multiplying things that's just how statistics work, if 20 odd people wrote about their experience then probably 200 didn't bother. May have contributed to the 5 hour delays at the airport this week.

[lkv]

7 minutes ago, jspill said:

No all I'm doing is saying X number of reports exist. Then yourself and PJ want to quash discussion - I don't mind if you believe there's an issue or not, I'm just posting facts for the benefit of people reading. They can decide.

 

There will never be any way to know if something on the internet is true or false, there could be 1000 reports and that line of logic would still apply. And yes we never know both sides of the story. 

 

Yes I know 4 guys personally that were denied, people can choose to dismiss that or not, up to them, I'd like to think I come off as someone credible. My posting history is longer than yours and PJ's combined. I've been on the forum going on 8 years, 10k posts across various forums. Up to you as they say.

 

As for multiplying things that's just how statistics work, if 20 odd people wrote about their experience then probably 200 didn't bother. May have contributed to the 5 hour delays at the airport this week.

Yes, I am aware of your history. You did  that did endless visa exempts, way over 6, well after the computer started blinking. :)

 

Now you and JackThompson have become advocates of land borders.

 

I guess there's a difference in opinions here.

 

I'll deal with the situation should there be a situation flying via airports. But then again everybody else can do whatever they wish.

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by lkv

[jspill]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

Yes, I am aware of your history. You did  that did endless visa exempts, way over 6, well after the computer started blinking. :)

Now you and JackThompson have become advocates of land borders.

Yes I had 7 visa exempts in 2016. Already explained that was 2016 and the recent uptick in denials started in early 2017. Difference of opinion is fine but don't deliberately ignore things.

 

If anything that should add to my credibility - if what I'm doing now is 'scaremongering' then I did the complete opposite in 2016. Go figure.

Edited August 9, 2017 by jspill

[lkv]

4 minutes ago, jspill said:

Already explained to you that was 2016 and the recent uptick is in 2017. Difference of opinion is fine but don't deliberately ignore things I've explained to you, or abandon critical thinking.

 

If anything that should add to my credibility - if what I'm doing now is 'scaremongering' then I did the complete opposite in 2016. 

I'm not questioning your credibility, I'm questioning the credibility of some reports that you use to come to your conclusions. Some, not all.

 

Everyone should exercise caution in this ever changing environment, but we need a bit of clarity as well in this doom and gloom.

[Rhys]

The Trumpmiester is coming to the rescue for tit for tat...

 

[phuketjock]

1 hour ago, jspill said:

I did post a list maybe it was in another thread, ok I'll do it here. It's not scaremongering to post reports. Facts don't care about your feelings.

 

1, 2, 3 - the three reports in the OP of this thread

4  - the Muay Thai guy from Bangkok Expats Facebook group

5 - stoicccc - link

6, 7 - This guy, can't recall it was on thaivisa too. Then in the comments there's a guy saying it happened to him, and 2 saying it almost happened to them

8 - Californiadreaming82 - link

9 - Introuble - link

10 - Stuart Fox - link

11 - GregoryH - link

12, 13, 14, 15, 16 - the 5 Indians link

17. 18 - guys from another forum, we're not allowed to link to other forums, welcome to PM me

19 - Johnny396 - link

20 - However many in Sadao yesterday

 

All in 2017. I'm forgetting some. A few weren't OPs, they were posts within the threads above. 'Oh this happened to me too' etc. 

Of the 8 links you actually posted 

Stoicccc, had a history of multi tourist/exempt entries

This guy, history of multi tourist/exempt entries , insufficient funds.

Stuart Fox, 1Year history of tourist visa/exempts, insufficient funds.

GregoryH, History of multi tourist visa/exempt entries, no money. 

 

Johnny396, History of multi tourist/exempt entries, May 2015.

 

Introuble was between Cambodia and Laos, nothing to do with Thailand.

The Indians are one that no one knows what really happened?

 

So if we include the 3 guys in the op that is a total of 7 people who have been denied entry into Thailand this year 

and it would appear that all 7 ( nowhere hear 20 ) were rightfully denied entry for misuse of tourist visas for long term stays

and several of them did not have the necessary funds to finance there stay here. ( I suspect that the IOs

concerned may have thought, rightly or wrongly, that some of the people involved may have been working )

This could have influenced their decision to deny entry.

As I keep saying get the right visa/exemption/extension for the purpose of your intended stay, it is that

simple.

Any way you look at it your numbers are flawed and you are, whether you will admit it or not, scaremongering.

Edited August 9, 2017 by phuketjock

[jspill]

23 hours ago, phuketjock said:

Of the 8 links you actually posted 

This thread is in itself a link to 3 of them. If you insist - link, link, and link for completeness. Like I said some are on other forums and TVF doesn't allow those links.

 

IMHO this is going on above and beyond the amount it should be, and 'get an appropriate visa' is not the correct response in all cases.

 

In some it may be, but for others they were doing nothing inappropriate by enrolling in a language school after a short time as a tourist, or leaving for 2 months after an METV then returning, or you know, never having stepped foot in Thailand in the first place.

 

Now Suvarnbhumi airport has delays too, partly lack of staff, partly this extra questioning.

 

"When someone came along who took a few minutes or needed an extra inquiry the queue grew and grew as a result"

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by jspill

[phuketjock]

25 minutes ago, jspill said:

This thread is in itself a link to 3 of them. If you really insist - link, link, and link for completeness on those. Like I said some are on other forums and Thaivisa doesn't allow those links.

 

To me it's obvious this is going on above and beyond the amount it should be, and 'get an appropriate visa' is not the correct response in 100% of cases.

 

In some it may be, sure, but for others they were doing nothing inappropriate by enrolling in a language school after a short time as a tourist, or leaving for 2 months after an METV then returning, or you know, never having step foot in Thailand in the first place.

 

Now Suvarnbhumi airport has delays too, partly lack of staff, partly this extra questioning.

 

"When someone came along who took a few minutes or needed an extra inquiry the queue grew and grew as a result"

 

You are the one using extravagant numbers that you are unable to back up and so far the ones that you

have brought to light have all, bar none, been legitimately denied entry for various reasons from funds to

using tourist visas/exempt entries for long stays.

Delays at immigration at airports are nothing new and every time someone tries yet again to enter on a

tourist/exempt for the 5/6/7th time that will inevitably cause extra questioning and therefore further delays,

causing the queues to grow. Perhaps the IO may have been questioning someone who had been " learning Thai

on an ED visa for a year " whether they could actually speak any Thai.

But having said all that in 2016 there were 32,000,000 visitors to Thailand 99.9999999% of whom had no

problems at all entering on the appropriate visa/exempt/extension for the purpose of their visit.

Please stop making imaginary problems where none exist for 99.99% of the people coming to Thailand on 

Holiday you are unnecessarily scaremongering.

You and people like you have brought this on yourselves by thinking you could carry on abusing the tourist/

exemption entries to avoid getting the correct visa, and now it has caught up with you and now you are all

squealing foul play, down to yourselves i'm afraid you made the problem now you have to live with it tough.

What is even worse is that because of your selfish behaviour you have, unnecessarily, put everyone else entering

Thailand under closer scrutiny, another possible reason for delays at airports??

Edited August 10, 2017 by phuketjock

[maewang99]

silly but anyways....

an immigration officer can always deny entry for any reason.... check.

but if you left THAILAND.... with a valid everything.... and re-enter with a valid unused or multiple REENTRY PERMIT..... 

with or without 20K THB....

the officer can still just reject you? I think no.. but....

 

just to fully understand the fine points, ya know?
what's the skinny?



 

Edited August 10, 2017 by maewang99

[jspill]

1 hour ago, phuketjock said:

You are the one using extravagant numbers that you are unable to back up and so far the ones that you

have brought to light have all, bar none, been legitimately denied entry for various reasons from funds to

using tourist visas/exempt entries for long stays.

Delays at immigration at airports are nothing new and every time someone tries yet again to enter on a

tourist/exempt for the 5/6/7th time that will inevitably cause extra questioning and therefore further delays,

causing the queues to grow. Perhaps the IO may have been questioning someone who had been " learning Thai

on an ED visa for a year " whether they could actually speak any Thai.

But having said all that in 2016 there were 32,000,000 visitors to Thailand 99.9999999% of whom had no

problems at all entering on the appropriate visa/exempt/extension for the purpose of their visit.

Please stop making imaginary problems where none exist for 99.99% of the people coming to Thailand on 

Holiday you are unnecessarily scaremongering.

You and people like you have brought this on yourselves by thinking you could carry on abusing the tourist/

exemption entries to avoid getting the correct visa, and now it has caught up with you and now you are all

squealing foul play, down to yourselves i'm afraid you made the problem now you have to live with it tough.

What is even worse is that because of your selfish behaviour you have, unnecessarily, put everyone else entering

Thailand under closer scrutiny, another possible reason for delays at airports??

I gave 20 examples as asked. This isn't about tourists who on average stay ~10 days a year and come once or twice in their lives, of course they will have no problem. (Although the group of 5 Indians did.) They won't be reading thaivisa either.

 

What I'm saying is some slighter longer stayers may have problems sooner than they expect, e.g. they use one METV for the length of time it allows, then decide to enrol at a language school, they've done absolutely nothing wrong at that point. But if they follow Thai forums and see these posts they'll know to carry 20k and ideally come back via Nong Khai, just in case.

 

You say 'we never know all the facts' when it supports your opinion, then you say 'all bar none were legitimately denied', which one is it? You don't know whether it was legitimate or not, nor do I. Certainly some cases don't sound legitimate - cases where the tourist had 20k cash on them for example.

 

There are no limits on tourist visa use set in law so any 'abuse' is your opinion. 'Being a tourist too long' does not exist. Criteria for denying entry include e.g. lack of funds or suspicion of working illegally, some of those denied had 20k+ on their person, approved Ed visa, etc. and I happen to know they weren't working in the Kingdom. They got back into Thailand via Nong Khai. Anyone reading this in a similar spot might consider doing the same. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by jspill

[jspill]

55 minutes ago, maewang99 said:

silly but anyways....

an immigration officer can always deny entry for any reason.... check.

but if you left THAILAND.... with a valid everything.... and re-enter with a valid unused or multiple REENTRY PERMIT..... 

with or without 20K THB....

the officer can still just reject you? I think no.. but....

 

just to fully understand the fine points, ya know?
what's the skinny?

Only seen this thread but that border is known for problems.

 

[phuketjock]

3 minutes ago, jspill said:

I gave 20 examples as asked. Obviously this isn't about tourists who on average stay ~10 days a year and come once or twice in their lives. You're repeating yourself, yes of course they will have no problem. (Although the group of 5 Indians did.)

 

What I'm saying is some may have problems sooner than they expect, e.g. they use one METV for the length of time it allows, then decide to enrol at a language school, they've done absolutely nothing wrong at that point. But if they're fortunate enough to read this thread they'll know to carry 20k and ideally come back via land border from Laos, just in case.

 

You say 'we never know all the facts' when it supports your opinion, then you say 'all bar none were legitimately denied', so which one is it? You don't know whether it was legitimate or not, neither do I. Certainly some cases don't sound legitimate - cases where the tourist had 20k cash on them for example.

 

There are no limits on tourist visa use set in law so any 'abuse' is simply your opinion.

You did not give 20 examples you quoted some reports 8 of which you sent links to of which only 7 were actually

legitimate Thai entry problems from 2017 and all of which were rejected for various reasons, which going on the

information available were imo legitimate denials.

You say this is obviously not about tourists but the whole thread is all about people trying to enter on tourist visa/

exemptions being denied entry so how can you claim it is not about tourists, unknowingly you are actually correct

it is not about genuine tourists it is about people pretending they are tourists when they are not. 

The 20k rule is not new it has been in force for more than 25 years.

If your so called "tourists" can afford to swan around Thailand/SE Asia for a year or more without any income??

surely they can afford to buy a proper visa for that time because no matter how you cut it they are not tourists

are they??

Actually, law or no law, there are limits as you and your mates are finding out the hard way now, and you are finding

out now because you have been using the incorrect method (abusing tourist visas/exemptions ) for your purpose

of stay for far too long. I looks like it is also going to get harder for the correct visa dodgers down the road, so you

can expect to see many more of your so called " tourists " denied entry.

[jspill]

It's possible to be a tourist for a year. Don't get overly hung up on the word. In the modern age one can have an income on the internet while travelling. The UNWTO definition of a tourist is anyone who stays in places outside their usual environment, for any purpose, for up to a year. It doesn't necessarily have to be two weeks of beach and temples then back home. Indeed some countries issue 10 year tourist visas. Some call it 'visitor'.

[phuketjock]

29 minutes ago, jspill said:

It's possible to be a tourist for a year. Don't get overly hung up on the word. In the modern age one can have an income on the internet while travelling. The UNWTO definition of a tourist is anyone who stays in places outside their usual environment, for any purpose, for up to a year. It doesn't necessarily have to be two weeks of beach and temples then back home. Indeed some countries issue 10 year tourist visas. Some call it 'visitor'.

Well in case you don't know Thailand don't issue 10 year tourist visas, and earning an income on the internet equates to

working on line no? Working in Thailand 1. on a tourist visa and 2. without a work permit is illegal, but that is a whole different

question. 

I have been unable to locate your claimed definition of a tourist, a link might help, but the Oxford Dictionary says a tourist is

" A person who is travelling or visiting a place for pleasure " source.

 https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/tourist

I would suggest that the length of stay allocated by the Thai authorities to their various visas is the length that they consider

a tourist visit should be.

I don't think they issue tourist visa for 1 year so I guess they don't agree with your possibility of being a 1 year tourist, and really

it is what they say that goes not what you think goes.

Edited August 10, 2017 by phuketjock
correction

[jspill]

You can't quote any official source saying working remotely for overseas clients is illegal, just like you can't quote any limits to length of time being a tourist in Thailand.

5 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

I have been unable to locate your claimed definition of a tourist

Attached. World tourism organisation definition.

[phuketjock]

11 minutes ago, jspill said:

You can't quote any official source saying working remotely for overseas clients is illegal, just like you can't quote any limits to length of time being a tourist in Thailand.

Attached. World tourism organisation definition.

I haven't quoted any official sources on anything I have just quoted the legal situation regarding working in Thailand, what

you or anyone else does regarding the law in Thailand is entirely up to you/them.

I said that I think the length of time that the Thai authorities allocate to their various Tourist visas is an indication on how

they see the length of time that would be considered by them for a legitimate tourist visit. 

It would seem logical for them to think that way but that's just my logic.

Maybe you should advise the Thai authorities to consult with the UNWTO. and I haven't checked but I would guess that 

most of the people that we are discussing on this thread were in Thailand more than one year, so not tourists by definition

then?

Edited August 10, 2017 by phuketjock

[jspill]

There's no situation pertaining to remote online workers.

 

My logic would be if a consulate outside Thailand approves a visa you won't then be denied on arrival without access to an ATM but that's just me.

[jspill]

14 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

most of the people that we are discussing on this thread were in Thailand more than one year, so not tourists by definition

then?

One can use Ed visas for three years. 

[phuketjock]

4 minutes ago, jspill said:

One can use Ed visas for three years. 

Then they are not tourists are they?? And how many of the reprobates we have been discussing are/were on ED visa?

And I believe there are much stricter rules than before 3 month renewals and such like.

Edited August 10, 2017 by phuketjock
addition

[jspill]

See the OP, had a valid Ed visa and 25k, still denied. You do realise not everyone denied will start a thaivisa thread.

[JAG]

You can't quote any official source saying working remotely for overseas clients is illegal, just like you can't quote any limits to length of time being a tourist in Thailand.
Attached. World tourism organisation definition.

Thailand issues it's Tourist Visas on the basis of its own definition of a tourist rather than the "World Tourism Organisation" definition.
If you want to stay here long term - then you have to get the appropriate visa. Tourist visas are clearly not the appropriate visas for long term stays. That's why these people are being refused entry.
They should of course be refused the visas when they apply rather than be refused entry when they arrive.

[phuketjock]

15 minutes ago, jspill said:

See the OP, had a valid Ed visa and 25k, still denied. You do realise not everyone denied will start a thaivisa thread.

Please don't start the op clearly states he was denied entry despite having a valid tourist visa.

The ED visa guy did not have the 20k he only had 8k and was suspected of working, please try

to get your facts right.

You do realise, not everyone thinks they were right for trying it on and failing.

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by phuketjock
addition

[phuketjock]

10 minutes ago, JAG said:

Thailand issues it's Tourist Visas on the basis of its own definition of a tourist rather than the "World Tourism Organisation" definition.
If you want to stay here long term - then you have to get the appropriate visa. Tourist visas are clearly not the appropriate visas for long term stays. That's why these people are being refused entry.
They should of course be refused the visas when they apply rather than be refused entry when they arrive.

Unfortunately I don't think they tell the whole truth when they apply for the visa, just what they need to to get the visa.

[stevenl]

29 minutes ago, jspill said:

See the OP, had a valid Ed visa and 25k, still denied. You do realise not everyone denied will start a thaivisa thread.

Because it is not about the money, that is just the excuse. It is about people abusing, in the eye of some IO's, the visa system. Like living here on tourist visa or visa exempt.

[lkv]

I see all these so called FACTS.

 

Lets get the facts straight.

 

There is no limit on tourist visas.

 

There is no limit on visa exempts when one flies in, although a warning comes up at 6.

 

There is a limit of 2 visa exempts at land borders per year.

 

People should be able to support themselves (20K may be asked).

 

Did I miss something or does that sum up this 45 page thread (putting aside all the drama)?

Edited August 10, 2017 by lkv

[jspill]

I got back into BKK today, I used the 850 baht premium airport pick up service where a rep meets you off the plane and takes you through the priority lane. At immigration the IO said 'you come a lot, what are you doing here', I replied I have a Thai GF and plan to get married. That's the best strategy imo.

 

Next question was how long I'd stay this time, I said 2 weeks (actually I'll extend the visa exemption to 60 days). I had one of those $8 rented onward tickets dated 2 weeks ahead ready to show if asked, and 20k baht, but wasn't asked.

 

After those two questions she stamped me in for another visa exemption, didn't get pulled to the side. There's no other IOs standing around in the priority section so using that may reduce the chance of getting pulled aside for further questioning.

 

My visa history is 2 year overstay followed by 7 visa exempts then an SETV, on this passport, then previous passport even worse dating back to 2009. 

 

I'd been out of Thailand 3 months, visited Macau HK and Philippines. Still well over 180 days in the last calendar year was in Thailand. Originally I planned to come in via land but there hadn't been any new denied entry threads this last week and both airports had those 5 hours delays so I figured they may be a bit embarrassed over that, I'll risk the airport priority lane. Plus being flown back to Manila wouldn't be the worst thing.

 

Hopefully it's all died down, but that priority lane is well worth using, would recommend. The rep was super cute too.

Edited August 13, 2017 by jspill

[JAG]

I got back into BKK today, I used the 850 baht premium airport pick up service where a rep meets you off the plane and takes you through the priority lane. At immigration the IO said 'you come a lot, what are you doing here', I replied I have a Thai GF and plan to get married. That's the best strategy imo.
 
Next question was how long I'd stay this time, I said 2 weeks (actually I'll extend the visa exemption to 60 days). I had one of those $8 rented onward tickets dated 2 weeks ahead ready to show if asked, and 20k baht, but wasn't asked.
 
After those two questions she stamped me in for another visa exemption, didn't get pulled to the side. There's no other IOs standing around in the priority section so using that may reduce the chance of getting pulled aside for further questioning.
 
My visa history is 2 year overstay followed by 7 visa exempts then an SETV, on this passport, then previous passport even worse dating back to 2009.
 
I'd been out of Thailand 3 months, visited Macau HK and Philippines. Still well over 180 days in the last calendar year was in Thailand. Originally I planned to come in via land but there hadn't been any new denied entry threads this last week and both airports had those 5 hours delays so I figured they may be a bit embarrassed over that, I'll risk the airport priority lane. Plus being flown back to Manila wouldn't be the worst thing.
 
Hopefully it's all died down, but that priority lane is well worth using, would recommend. The rep was super cute too.

Goodness gracious me!

You are forever complaining about Immigration enforcing the rules, yet you say, "
My visa history is 2 year overstay followed by 7 visa exempts then an SETV, on this passport, then previous passport even worse dating back to 2009. "
You have "one of those $8 rented onward tickets dated 2 weeks ahead ready to show if asked."
And you think that Immigration are being unfair...

[StayinThailand2much]

On 7/17/2017 at 0:55 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Yes, the mental disconnect on those two things -- having cash in the pocket as being proof you're not working locally --  is startling.  But then, making correct mental connections is rarely a big attribute of those in authority here.

 

Not to mention, having to show 20,000 baht in the bank when applying for a visa, and then, arriving at the border, being asked to show the same amount, this time in cash!

[StayinThailand2much]

6 hours ago, jspill said:

My visa history is 2 year overstay followed by 7 visa exempts then an SETV, on this passport, then previous passport even worse dating back to 2009...

 

The rep was super cute too...

Two questions come to mind:

 

1. from your best guess - did the IO grill you because of your past overstay, or because of the number of trips to Thailand?

 

2. Do you have the cute rep's phone number? 

[StayinThailand2much]

On 8/10/2017 at 7:19 PM, jspill said:

It's possible to be a tourist for a year. Don't get overly hung up on the word. In the modern age one can have an income on the internet while travelling. The UNWTO definition of a tourist is anyone who stays in places outside their usual environment, for any purpose, for up to a year. It doesn't necessarily have to be two weeks of beach and temples then back home. Indeed some countries issue 10 year tourist visas. Some call it 'visitor'.

My guess is, it's just a technical definition, cause after staying away from your fatherland for more than a year, you'd be called an expat, wouldn't you? Of course, for the countries you'd be travelling to, you'd still be a tourist, as opposed to resident/immigrant/national, etc., which would require special visas/status, etc.