My visa retirement extension refused yesterday

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, peterpaintpot said:

I have lived in retirement in Thailand for nearly 11 years and in that time I have been assigned to four different Immigration Offices all in the same region. This is due to expansion and re-organisation of the service. In this region as well as the aforementioned financial requirements they reqire a financial transaction to be carried out the day of the application, the figure is then recorded in the bank book, to prove that the money is in there for the full 90 days.

You are only required to do a financial transaction on the day of the application because certain bank machines cannot update the passbook without a transaction that day.

Bangkok banks machines can update your passbook on the day without any transactions.

[Jip99]

49 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Jim, firstly the thread is purely about an extension of stay based on retirement.

The financial requirements are;

1. 800,000 baht held in a Thai bank account for 3 months prior to the date of application.

2. A proof of income letter from your Embassy confirming a monthly income of 65, 000 baht.

3. A combination of the two amounting to 800,000 baht per annum.

 

If using the 800,000 baht in the bank method, Immigration require your bank book and a letter from the bank confirming the length and amount held. Both the figures in the letter and the bank book must match.

Some offices insist the letter and bank book are dated the same day as the application.

 

If using the income method, (65,000 baht per month) then Immigration require a proof of income letter from your Embassy.

Unfortunately, not all Embassies of nationalities supply a proof of income letter based on an affidavit.

An affidavit is a written statement confirmed by oath or affirmation without proof of facts.

If you lie under oath you are committing perjury.

USA, Australia and Canadian Embassies use this method (maybe more).

 

The British Embassy for one, do not take sworn statement with regards to proof of income.

They will issue the letter to Immigration based on the financial proof you supply them.

In other words we cannot lie, but then again we can't be accused of perjury either.

 

 

Extract from embassy letter below.

 

The British embassy are not thorough in their due diligence i.e. they do not interrogate the figures/evidence that you provide. Supply evidence to support your figures and they will sign it off.

 

Their get out is that their letter says that "Mr Smith states that his income is.... "

 

 

Consular Letter Confirming Pension/Income for Thai Immigration – Fee No 2 (i)
**There is no need to apply in person – please make your application by post**
The Consular Section is able to issue a standard letter addressed to Thai Immigration
confirming your pension/income to support the renewal/extension of your retirement visa.
This letter is a Thai requirement and the granting of the visa is at the sole discretion of the
Thai Immigration authorities, not the British Embassy.
Requirements
 Photocopy of your current British passport
 Evidence of your current pension/income which will be returned to you
 Your local Thai address to be typed on the letter
Please ensure the pension/income evidence you provide is in a form that is simple and
easy to understand and shows clearly the key financial amounts that are required for
inclusion in the letter. According to Thai Immigration, your pension currency should not be
converted into Thai Baht.

[CharlieH]

In my experience, I have always provided only 4 months of bank statements to the British Embassy.

Then a calculation sheet:

total payments ÷ 4 = average monthly x 12 = Annual income.

The letter then states that "Mr X has provided evidence of an annual income of xxxxxxx" 

 

[perthperson]

Just now, CharlieH said:

In my experience, I have always provided only 4 months of bank statements to the British Embassy.

Then a calculation sheet:

total payments ÷ 4 = average monthly x 12 = Annual income.

The letter then states that "Mr X has provided evidence of an annual income of xxxxxxx" 

 

In my case I just provide the latest statements from my pension provider(s) 

[Psimbo]

Query asked and answered on page one. 11 Pages later!!!!! 

 

This could have been closed ages ago.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

Extract from embassy letter below.

 

The British embassy are not thorough in their due diligence i.e. they do not interrogate the figures/evidence that you provide. Supply evidence to support your figures and they will sign it off.

 

Their get out is that their letter says that "Mr Smith states that his income is.... "

 

 

Consular Letter Confirming Pension/Income for Thai Immigration – Fee No 2 (i)
**There is no need to apply in person – please make your application by post**
The Consular Section is able to issue a standard letter addressed to Thai Immigration
confirming your pension/income to support the renewal/extension of your retirement visa.
This letter is a Thai requirement and the granting of the visa is at the sole discretion of the
Thai Immigration authorities, not the British Embassy.
Requirements
 Photocopy of your current British passport
 Evidence of your current pension/income which will be returned to you
 Your local Thai address to be typed on the letter
Please ensure the pension/income evidence you provide is in a form that is simple and
easy to understand and shows clearly the key financial amounts that are required for
inclusion in the letter. According to Thai Immigration, your pension currency should not be
converted into Thai Baht.

The letter is based on the figures you enter on the form and the subsequent proof thereof.

 

Yo cannot enter figures of £1,490 per month on the form (equivalent 65,000 pm), then send a letter from your pension provider stating a monthly pension of £600. They won't quibble at pence rounded up to £'s though.

 

The point I was making Jip, is that unlike the British Embassy, other Embassies supply the letter based on an affidavit without any proof of income. They can swear they get 100,000 baht a month and that's what the letter will state.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Tanoshi

[Jip99]

23 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The letter is based on the figures you enter on the form and the subsequent proof thereof.

 

Yo cannot enter figures of £1,490 per month on the form (equivalent 65,000 pm), then send a letter from your pension provider stating a monthly pension of £600. They won't quibble at pence rounded up to £'s though.

 

The point I was making Jip, is that unlike the British Embassy, other Embassies supply the letter based on an affidavit without any proof of income. They can swear they get 100,000 baht a month and that's what the letter will state.

 

24 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The letter is based on the figures you enter on the form and the subsequent proof thereof.

 

Yo cannot enter figures of £1,490 per month on the form (equivalent 65,000 pm), then send a letter from your pension provider stating a monthly pension of £600. They won't quibble at pence rounded up to £'s though.

 

The point I was making Jip, is that unlike the British Embassy, other Embassies supply the letter based on an affidavit without any proof of income. They can swear they get 100,000 baht a month and that's what the letter will state.

 

 

Yes, understand and accept your point Tanochi.

 

However, the embassy will not challenge the figures on the form if they have something by way of 'evidence'. In that respect I am aware of at least 2 people who have 'padded' their income used letters from a friend's company as 'evidence'.

 

It is still one step up from "I earn 65,000 Baht p.m." ?

[biplanebluey]

On 7/19/2017 at 8:46 AM, YetAnother said:

peculiar to be sure; i and others keep more than 1M, for when they increase the threshold and do not tell us; just a guess at the amount

SHHHhhhhhhhhhh Say that quietly !!!!!!!!!!!!

[YetAnother]

25 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

Yes, understand and accept your point Tanochi.

 

However, the embassy will not challenge the figures on the form if they have something by way of 'evidence'. In that respect I am aware of at least 2 people who have 'padded' their income used letters from a friend's company as 'evidence'.

 

It is still one step up from "I earn 65,000 Baht p.m." ?

they WILL tamp down in this; taking bets

[Jip99]

17 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

they WILL tamp down in this; taking bets

 

Stamp down on which? The verbal statement at other embassies or potentially flimsy evidence accepted at the British embassy ?

[YetAnother]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

Stamp down on which? The verbal statement at other embassies or potentially flimsy evidence accepted at the British embassy ?

across the board; all countries; thai immigration WILL go this route ; it has been explained to me when and what 'logic' was employed at that time (quite a while ago); current rulership here will tighten this one down

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

Yes, understand and accept your point Tanochi.

 

However, the embassy will not challenge the figures on the form if they have something by way of 'evidence'. In that respect I am aware of at least 2 people who have 'padded' their income used letters from a friend's company as 'evidence'.

 

It is still one step up from "I earn 65,000 Baht p.m." ?

They're lucky to have such a friend, in such a position, unfortunately the DWP don't have friends.

[Jim7777]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

@Jim7777

 

2.22 In the case of retirement: Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

The alien: (1) Must have been granted a non ­immigrant visa (NON­IM). (2) Must be 50 years of age or over. (3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or (4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months.  (5) Must have an annual earning and fluids deposited with a bank totalling no less than Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.

Immigration Bureau order 327-2557 (2014) - extension criteria & conditions en.pdf
 

 

Form for obtaining a Proof of Income letter from the British Embassy;

Note, we do it by mail, not in person.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/573863/Pension_7_12_16.pdf

 

 

Well I'm American and the United States Embassy does things differently.  Basically you're just swearing under oath on the Proof of Income Affidavit that you are receiving whatever your monthly income you may receive or to how much money you have saved in the bank.  The minimum amount of monthly income required for a non-o visa is 40,000 baht a month, or you must have a minimum of 400,000 baht saved.  

 

The United States doesn't actually ask for proof or bank statements they don't even want to see it.  Personally I'm retired military so I receive a monthly pension payment.  Every year when it's time for me to extend my visa I go to the United States Embassy first to get my Proof of Income Affidavit.  

 

When I go I always bring my retirement paperwork with me which shows my original monthly pension check amount before all of my annual COLA raises and stuff like that and I offer to show it to them just in case but they never want to see it.  The United States Embassy just gives me my required Proof of Income Affidavit for a fee of course and that's it.  Then I just take the Proof of Income Affidavit to immigration and I get my annual extension with no problems at all.  

 

Oh and by the way I don't have PR I was just kidding about that everyone gets so serious and I was just trying to explain the process for someone.  

 

Anyway I don't know where you got that information from but I know the rules for sure because I have a VERY GOOD agent who helps me with my annual visa extension and there's absolutely no question that it's a minimum requirement of 40,000 baht in monthly income or have a minimum of 400,000 baht in the bank.  That's a fact I'm not trying to argue but I know this is the rule.  Regardless it really doesn't matter to me because I make something like over 102,000 baht a month which is my monthly pension payments.  Whenever I fill out the Proof of Income Affidavit I always fill it out in U.S. Dollars and that has always been acceptable by immigration and I'm on my third extension now.  

 

Obviously being on my third extension I know what I'm doing.  I use the agent and they get my extension done for me and I have my passport back in only 2 days!  That sure beats waiting for a month.  Although since I get my passport back in only 2 days immigration requires a lot more information from me such as several pictures of my wife and I in our home and a lot of other stuff because for me they don't do the home visit.  I use the agent and they expedite my extension and I have my passport back with the extension stamp fully completed within 2 days.  It costs a little bit more money but it's worth it for me because I wouldn't like being without my passport for a month.  

 

I like having it done and my passport back in my hand fast like they do for me.  I use TSL and they are AWESOME!!  I would highly recommend them to anyone.  And it's totally legal I've looked into it.  TSL is also very trustworthy and a family member of mine has a few friends in the company so I get the red carpet treatment there.  

[perthperson]

Just now, Jim7777 said:

 The minimum amount of monthly income required for a non-o visa is 40,000 baht a month, or you must have a minimum of 400,000 baht saved.  

Incorrect ! 

 

What you are talking about is the financial requirement for an extension of stay based on marriage (it is not a visa) 

 

Despite what you are claiming it would appear your knowledge of the "rules" is deficient. 

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Incorrect ! 

 

What you are talking about is the financial requirement for an extension of stay based on marriage (it is not a visa) 

 

Despite what you are claiming it would appear your knowledge of the "rules" is deficient. 

 

He may have taken this from the Thai Embassy, London website:-

 

Required Documents

Non-Immigrant Type O 

• Birth Certificate (applicant's child)
• A copy of marriage certificate and a copy of Thai passport or a copy of Thai ID card (if married to Thai national)
• A copy of marriage certificate,a copy of Thai passport/a copy of Thai ID of spouse and (3 months bank statement showing monthly income of more than £1,400 annually.)
• An official recommendation letter from organization perform voluntary job in Thailand (for volunteer job)
• Pension statement if the applicant is a pension earner.

 

http://thaiembassyuk.org.uk/en/types-of-visa

 

 

Where he may be deficient is in using an agent when he has 102,000 Baht p.m. income....................

 

[Jim7777]

13 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Incorrect ! 

 

What you are talking about is the financial requirement for an extension of stay based on marriage (it is not a visa) 

 

Despite what you are claiming it would appear your knowledge of the "rules" is deficient. 

Okay whatever you say dude I've only been doing this for 3 years and I'm on my 3rd extension so yeah I guess I don't know anything lol.  I'm not arguing with you dude I've been doing this for a while now and I've lived all over the world.  Honestly I don't really care about your opinion I don't know you.  

 

And uh yeah I know it's for a marriage visa extension duh, I already have a visa so obviously I don't need another one I just extend it every year.  Regardless a non-o is a non-o whether it's for retirement or for marriage.  There are a few extra rules for a retirement visa but apparently you are a bit sensitive about that.  

 

Gosh I'm sorry my pension is so much and I'm sorry that I have it so good over here.  I guess I'm sorry that you don't get the same good deal that I do.  I don't really know what you want to hear and I don't really care.  You were instructed to stop the bickering so I suggest you stop LMAO ???.  

[perthperson]

Just now, Jim7777 said:

I already have a visa so obviously I don't need another one I just extend it every year.

Visas are never extended !  

[Jim7777]

29 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Incorrect ! 

 

What you are talking about is the financial requirement for an extension of stay based on marriage (it is not a visa) 

 

Despite what you are claiming it would appear your knowledge of the "rules" is deficient. 

INCORRECT!!! Oh yes preach it to me.  LMAO ?????.  Please enlighten me with your vast knowledge lol.  

[Jim7777]

25 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

He may have taken this from the Thai Embassy, London website:-

 

Required Documents

Non-Immigrant Type O 

• Birth Certificate (applicant's child)
• A copy of marriage certificate and a copy of Thai passport or a copy of Thai ID card (if married to Thai national)
• A copy of marriage certificate,a copy of Thai passport/a copy of Thai ID of spouse and (3 months bank statement showing monthly income of more than £1,400 annually.)
• An official recommendation letter from organization perform voluntary job in Thailand (for volunteer job)
• Pension statement if the applicant is a pension earner.

 

http://thaiembassyuk.org.uk/en/types-of-visa

 

 

Where he may be deficient is in using an agent when he has 102,000 Baht p.m. income....................

 

Well actually about $3,600 dollars a month in US Dollars but I don't see how any of this is any of your business.  I'm actually an amputee from Iraq and a 20 year Special Forces veteran.  I lost a leg.  

[Jim7777]

15 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Visas are never extended !  

LMAO ??  Visas are never extended do you really believe that?  I get an extension on my visa every year how else do you think that I have been living here legally for the past 3 years.  Visas are never extended?  Apparently you haven't been here for very long if you seriously don't know that immigration grants visa extensions everyday.  I think you're just trying to bait me into an argument and I'm not going to argue with you, it's a fact that extensions to visas are given everyday.  

 

I'm currently living here legally on my third extension to my original visa.  I report to immigration every 90 days.  I think you know better than that.  I'm through talking to you you're just trying to instigate me because you're mad at me for some reason or probably more like jealous of me.  This conversation is a waste of my time and this conversation is over.  Bye bye now.  

[perthperson]

Just now, Jim7777 said:

 Visas are never extended?  Apparently you haven't been here for very long

 

Absolutely true !  Only  the permission to stay can be extended, not the visa.  

 

The visa you had has long ago expired and is of no further use other than from a historical perspective which proves you once had a visa to gain entry to the country. 

[Jim7777]

36 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Visas are never extended !  

And by the way one last thing this picture attached this is what a Visa Extension actually looks like stamped in my passport.  "Visas are never extended" surely you must know better than that if you know anything at all about Visas.  Of course visas are extended.  I'm done arguing with you this is a waste of my time.  

[perthperson]

Just now, Jim7777 said:

And by the way one last thing this picture attached this is what a Visa Extension actually looks like stamped in my passport.  "Visas are never extended" surely you must know better than that if you know anything at all about Visas.  Of course visas are extended.  I'm done arguing with you this is a waste of my time.  

Thanks for the picture which is of an extension of stay stamp -- not an extension of a visa,

[Jim7777]

42 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Visas are never extended !  

And as you can see on my attached "VISA EXTENSION" it does in fact say "Extension of Stay".  I am absolutely bewildered by your comment.  Everyone knows that visas ARE extended.  

[oceanyachting]

3 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Thanks for the picture which is of an extension of stay stamp -- not an extension of a visa,

AND it's an Extension of Stay based on Marriage, for which the sums he quoted are correct. Ane Extension of Stay based on Retirement has different financial requirements

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, Jim7777 said:

And as you can see on my attached "VISA EXTENSION" it does in fact say "Extension of Stay".  I am absolutely bewildered by your comment.  Everyone knows that visas ARE extended.  

 

1 minute ago, oceanyachting said:

AND it's an Extension of Stay based on Marriage, for which the sums he quoted are correct. Ane Extension of Stay based on Retirement has different financial requirements

Agreed but he was posting in a thread entitled  "My visa retirement extension refused yesterday" ! 

 

So he was way off topic and continues to be so! 

 

 

[Jim7777]

5 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Thanks for the picture which is of an extension of stay stamp -- not an extension of a visa,

It's the same thing, wow!  You are just arguing semantics it's the same thing and honestly who cares.  You must be very board and apparently very bitter about something.  

 

Have fun analyzing visas I'm going to go enjoy my nice big fat pension check that I get every month.  LMAO ???????

[Jingthing]

I think it's trivial if people call their retirement extensions extensions of their visa.

Because everyone understands what they are talking about and it doesn't hurt people to use either term.

But it's less trivial when people call retirement extensions themselves visas.

That's because there are multiple things that people refer to as retirement visas:

O visas to start the process towards retirement extensions

O-A visas

Retirement extensions

So it's important to say exactly what you're talking about. 

 

I don't understand the drama if people want to say I got a retirement extension of my visa. People know that's the same thing as just saying a retirement extension. No harm, no foul. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Jingthing

[Jim7777]

8 minutes ago, perthperson said:

 

Agreed but he was posting in a thread entitled  "My visa retirement extension refused yesterday" ! 

 

So he was way off topic and continues to be so! 

 

 

LMAO somebody please give this dude something better to do with his life lol.  

[Jim7777]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think it's trivial if people call their retirement extensions extensions of their visa.

Because everyone understands what they are talking about and it doesn't hurt people to use either term.

But it's less trivial when people call retirement extensions themselves visas.

That's because there are multiple things that people refer to as retirement visas:

O visas to start the process towards retirement extensions

O-A visas

Retirement extensions

 

I don't understand the drama if people want to say I got a retirement extension of my visa. 

Honestly who cares it's just terminology and semantics apparently he's just very board with life.  LoL