No way to treat a guest

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

No way to treat a guest

By The Nation

 

The government’s decree on foreign labourers amounted to a massive show of disrespect that only demeans Thailand

 

The Labour Ministry is scrambling to carry out damage-control measures, including setting up temporary stations to register some two millions illegal migrant workers. But if the government had seriously thought through the measures recently proposed for foreign migrant workers and introduced sound policies instead, the Labour Ministry would not now be in such a chaotic predicament.

 

It has hastily established 101 temporary centres across Thailand where foreign migrant workers can register over the next few weeks. “We believe we will be able to legalise two million migrant workers during the 15-day period,” Labour Minister Sirichai Dithakul has said. Workers from Myanmar formed the largest group of migrants registered the first day, followed by Cambodians and Lao. 

 

Officially, these temporary centres are meant to minimise the impact of the Royal Decree on Managing the Work of Aliens 2017. That is the controversial document threatening fines of Bt400,000 to Bt800,000 for employing foreign workers without a permit. Since it came into effect on June 23, employers have laid off a significant number of illegally hired workers. Tens of thousands of these people decided to return to their homelands, resulting in immediate labour shortages in some sectors.

 

Realising that the government’s initiative required further review, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha invoked his special powers under Article 44 of the interim Constitution to suspend until the end of the year four key clauses relating to the harsher penalties. Such back-pedalling would have been wholly unnecessary if policymakers had done their job properly in the first place. But, once again, Thailand as a whole suffers because we have military officers attempting to govern.

 

It seems that the generals produce and approve policies in the heat of the moment. While they may turn to professional civil servants for advice, one has to wonder if they heed the advice. It might also be fair to ask whether the bureaucrats dare give the generals honest advice, lest it counter their belief that the rule by popular mandate. This is not to say that the military doesn’t have a grand plan. It does: The grand plan is to remain in power as long as possible, one way or another. 

 

If the generals are genuinely interested in meeting the country’s long-term needs and interests, they need to put in place rules and regulations that ensure sustainability. These would include the respectful treatment of foreign labourers and ensuring them the rights and services to which they would normally be entitled.

 

No one should forget that it was by the sweat and cheap labour of foreign workers that Thailand became the strong nation it is today. Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia share a border with Thailand, but that doesn’t mean their workers can easily travel back and forth. Many have to take their chances with officials along the border, who often have no hesitation in exploiting them for personal financial gain.

 

Any complaint about foreigners disrespecting Thai law must be met with the observation that Thais frequently break and abuse their own laws. We do so every time we demand or pay a bribe. It’s a collective show of disrespect for our own society and for Thailand’s international standing, and an insult to our neighbouring countries whose peoples we mistreat.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30321811

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-07-26

[Somtamnication]

Well written article. Now write one about farang spouses and their "rights". 

[ukrules]

The whole thing doesn't make much sense does it ? They aren't that stupid. How this new law was enacted is highly irregular, this also doesn't make much sense.

 

It makes me question who initiated this and what motivations lie behind it.

 

Speculating any more would be illegal

 

[darksidedog]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

It seems that the generals produce and approve policies in the heat of the moment.

I think this is quite possibly the truth of the matter. The incompetence with which these laws were introduced and the drama created, was absolute evidence that proper research and consultation, which is standard under normal procedure, simply hadn't happened. Some bright spark bemoaned that there were loads of unregistered foreign workers here and the knee jerk reaction caused widespread disruption to multiple industries due to labour shortages. The OP feels that Thailand as a whole suffers because military officers are trying to govern. I agree with that, though taking it a stage further, if they are this incompetent on relatively simple matters, I shudder to think what would happen if these same clowns ever had to actually fight a war.

[edwinchester]

"It seems that the generals produce and approve policies in the heat of the moment."

 

Bit like the Generals ban on travelling in the back of a pick-up introduced just before Songkran. That lasted all of 24 hours.

[impulse]

May be a crappy way to treat guests, but a lot of the companies I've worked for over the years treat their employees with the same attitude that they're disposable when it's convenient.  Still crappy, but certainly not unique.

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by impulse

[wow64]

Tomorrows article.. Attitude adjustment for reporter 

[thhMan]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

I think this is quite possibly the truth of the matter. The incompetence with which these laws were introduced and the drama created, was absolute evidence that proper research and consultation, which is standard under normal procedure, simply hadn't happened. Some bright spark bemoaned that there were loads of unregistered foreign workers here and the knee jerk reaction caused widespread disruption to multiple industries due to labour shortages. The OP feels that Thailand as a whole suffers because military officers are trying to govern. I agree with that, though taking it a stage further, if they are this incompetent on relatively simple matters, I shudder to think what would happen if these same clowns ever had to actually fight a war.

That would be great to see... :)

It would finally put that Thai smug attitude where it belongs as I believe Thailand has a long deserving slap on the face on its way, to bring back some reality in this country

[rkidlad]

Labourers from Myanmar, etc, earn a pittance but are integral to many of Thailand's industries. I'm all for making them legal, etc, but the government must understand that these people have nothing. They live hand to mouth and send what little money they have back to their families. 

 

Having to suddenly stop work or be let go, then having to travel home with little or no money, having to take unpaid leave while you wait for a capricious government to keep changing the rules simply because they want to appear to know what they're doing when they really don't have a clue - Thailand doesn't deserve these people. 

 

I would say that this might be a lesson for Thailand but it won't. People only ever learn important lessons when they want to learn. Otherwise, they live in their own little world detached from everyone else. Time to stop preaching the virtues of Buddhism and start teaching the virtues of empathy. 

[lvr181]

High order critical thinking is NOT a fact of life among many Thais. 

[YetAnother]

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I think this is quite possibly the truth of the matter. The incompetence with which these laws were introduced and the drama created, was absolute evidence that proper research and consultation, which is standard under normal procedure, simply hadn't happened. Some bright spark bemoaned that there were loads of unregistered foreign workers here and the knee jerk reaction caused widespread disruption to multiple industries due to labour shortages. The OP feels that Thailand as a whole suffers because military officers are trying to govern. I agree with that, though taking it a stage further, if they are this incompetent on relatively simple matters, I shudder to think what would happen if these same clowns ever had to actually fight a war.

agreed; and note too that in the months leading up to the coup, one of the then leading generals , when asked about running the country said "we are not trained for it"

[YetAnother]

10 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

High order critical thinking is NOT a fact of life among many Thais. 

Most

[Cadbury]

2 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

High order critical thinking is NOT a fact of life among many Thais. 

Agreed. More so military personnel who seem to have the strange idea that managing the economy is to spend as much as they can get their hands on. Thais don't join the military to learn and practice economics.

 

[cmsally]

You have a system based on no critical thinking, no alternative opinions and only positive reinforcement and nodding of heads to decisions made on a higher level than your own.

What could possibly go wrong ??

[meechai]

14 minutes ago, cmsally said:

You have a system based on no critical thinking, no alternative opinions and only positive reinforcement and nodding of heads to decisions made on a higher level than your own.

What could possibly go wrong ??

 

What could go wrong is a good question & I think those honest with themselves know the answers yet

I wonder why so many still freely choose to live in Thailand & support such a regime?

 

I know many actually have no other choice as they left their homelands in a bad way & cannot return or are stuck

due to lack of choices/$$$. Still many others could easily sell up & return to a more modern/fair country yet they stay.

 

At times when I see expats who still live in Thailand call the country out (rightfully I agree) for lack of critical thinking

I do wonder if they note the irony

[fullcave]

1 hour ago, rkidlad said:

Labourers from Myanmar, etc, earn a pittance but are integral to many of Thailand's industries.

1

Earn a pittance after the overseer get's his cut, otherwise in some cases the cost more as they Thais are too lazy or not willing to do the work. 

[tomacht8]

The junta-appointed legislature approved without amendment this emergency decree.
Members voted 177-0 with 11 abstentions to adopt the controversial Royal Decree on managing foreign labor into law.

In the case of such voting results, the presumption is suggestive of the malfunction of an entire institution.
The struggle and debate about the best solution for the country simply no longer takes place.
All just appointed Yes Sayers, reduced to command receiver only.
So every progress is stifled.

 

[petermik]

9 hours ago, lvr181 said:

High order critical thinking is NOT a fact of life among many Thais. 

thinking/planning over here never..no way...unless it involves the next meal

[sawadee1947]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Any complaint about foreigners disrespecting Thai law must be met with the observation that Thais frequently break and abuse their own laws. We do so every time we demand or pay a bribe. It’s a collective show of disrespect for our own society and for Thailand’s international standing, and an insult to our neighbouring countries whose peoples we mistreat.

 

I don't know if the majority of Thais would agree with it. Thailand without bribery???? Go to any office (Ban Rak for marriage e.g.) and if you don't want to sit your ass the whole day you would try with 500 Baht. It works. Go to the land office and ask for the taxes. If you want to get a discount then negotiate. Some thousand will do. Go to the police when paying your ticket. Negotiate. And if your wife will go then you will get a big discount anyway.

I like the idea of a clean country. And I wonder how Singapore did it. But Thailand? Maybe in a 1000 years....or not

[Lemonltr]

5 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I think this is quite possibly the truth of the matter. The incompetence with which these laws were introduced and the drama created, was absolute evidence that proper research and consultation, which is standard under normal procedure, simply hadn't happened. Some bright spark bemoaned that there were loads of unregistered foreign workers here and the knee jerk reaction caused widespread disruption to multiple industries due to labour shortages. The OP feels that Thailand as a whole suffers because military officers are trying to govern. I agree with that, though taking it a stage further, if they are this incompetent on relatively simple matters, I shudder to think what would happen if these same clowns ever had to actually fight a war.

"What if they actually had to fight a war"

Go back to the invasion by the Japanese army in 1942 and you would see exactly.

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, meechai said:

 

What could go wrong is a good question & I think those honest with themselves know the answers yet

I wonder why so many still freely choose to live in Thailand & support such a regime?

 

I know many actually have no other choice as they left their homelands in a bad way & cannot return or are stuck

due to lack of choices/$$$. Still many others could easily sell up & return to a more modern/fair country yet they stay.

 

At times when I see expats who still live in Thailand call the country out (rightfully I agree) for lack of critical thinking

I do wonder if they note the irony

 

I assume that most expats living in Thailand have a wife and probably kids. It isn't easy to uproot those and take them off to Farangland, and it also isn't fair to demand that the Thai wife leave her other, birth family which always take precedence with them. I would leave in a heartbeat if it wasn't for having family here.

To those who might say then I or others should not have come here in the first place, it is impossible to really get to know any place unless you have spent a considerable amount of time there. With my experience, what I would advise anyone to do now is spend a week watching Thai tv in the evening, or in fact at any time of day, to gauge the mentality,  to spend a week reading the English language media to witness the endless tales of incompetence and corruption, and to spend a couple of hours by the roadside watching how people drive. Those things would tell you all you need to know about Thailand.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Well written article. Now write one about farang spouses and their "rights". 

 

That wouldn't take long! 

[Blinky62]

The junta-appointed legislature approved without amendment this emergency decree.
Members voted 177-0 with 11 abstentions to adopt the controversial Royal Decree on managing foreign labor into law.

In the case of such voting results, the presumption is suggestive of the malfunction of an entire institution.
The struggle and debate about the best solution for the country simply no longer takes place.
All just appointed Yes Sayers, reduced to command receiver only.
So every progress is stifled.

 

It's like North Korea vote or talk against the big mans wishes . SHOT . Thailand do the same , transferred to the bush.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[lvr181]

3 hours ago, meechai said:

 

What could go wrong is a good question & I think those honest with themselves know the answers yet

I wonder why so many still freely choose to live in Thailand & support such a regime?

 

I know many actually have no other choice as they left their homelands in a bad way & cannot return or are stuck

due to lack of choices/$$$. Still many others could easily sell up & return to a more modern/fair country yet they stay.

 

At times when I see expats who still live in Thailand call the country out (rightfully I agree) for lack of critical thinking

I do wonder if they note the irony

"I wonder why so many still freely choose to live in Thailand & support such a regime?"  But, do they really support the regime? 

[meechai]

20 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

I assume that most expats living in Thailand have a wife and probably kids. It isn't easy to uproot those and take them off to Farangland, and it also isn't fair to demand that the Thai wife leave her other, birth family which always take precedence with them. I would leave in a heartbeat if it wasn't for having family here.

To those who might say then I or others should not have come here in the first place, it is impossible to really get to know any place unless you have spent a considerable amount of time there. With my experience, what I would advise anyone to do now is spend a week watching Thai tv in the evening, or in fact at any time of day, to gauge the mentality,  to spend a week reading the English language media to witness the endless tales of incompetence and corruption, and to spend a couple of hours by the roadside watching how people drive. Those things would tell you all you need to know about Thailand.

True Barry & you cite a very good reason to stay.

 

We were lucky 10 years ago we thought to work on my wife getting dual citizenship

But again that did take a few years of living in "farangland" as you say

.But in our case it was enjoyable easy life & the wife loved it

as she does now that we have returned. The basic freedoms afforded to her she appreciates & knows the benefits

 

We did also love our years in Thailand & may someday go back if things get better as we have family of course there.

But for now we are happy & will  plan trips back in a year or two  if not to stay then a few months at least to visit.

[meechai]

20 hours ago, lvr181 said:

"I wonder why so many still freely choose to live in Thailand & support such a regime?"  But, do they really support the regime? 

 

Sure they do, perhaps they think not, but any money spent there in legite

businesses do in fact give a cut to the military dictatorship in the form of tax dollars

Thus support

 

If from the start outside governments refused to deal with them period

as well as the Thai citizens themselves refusing to give taxes to a non-government

then their time with their snouts in the trough would have been long over

 

As it stands now they ramp up instead with all the weapon purchases etc.

Which again questions the critical thinking of not just the Thai's but Non-Imm's that support them

thru living there

Edited July 27, 2017 by meechai

[kannot]

23 hours ago, meechai said:

 

What could go wrong is a good question & I think those honest with themselves know the answers yet

I wonder why so many still freely choose to live in Thailand & support such a regime?

 

I know many actually have no other choice as they left their homelands in a bad way & cannot return or are stuck

due to lack of choices/$$$. Still many others could easily sell up & return to a more modern/fair country yet they stay.

 

At times when I see expats who still live in Thailand call the country out (rightfully I agree) for lack of critical thinking

I do wonder if they note the irony

Maybe they want to try and shove Thailand into the 22nd  century and do care about the country and its  people and dislike the BS that they have to suffer with the plain out and out lies stemming from the  wholly false history they have  had rammed  down their throats since  the 1930's a  lot of which the rosy tinted brigade also actually believe, which I find even MORE incredible when they would have access to books  such as The  King never  Smiles .

 

[lvr181]

5 hours ago, meechai said:

 

Sure they do, perhaps they think not, but any money spent there in legite

businesses do in fact give a cut to the military dictatorship in the form of tax dollars

Thus support

 

If from the start outside governments refused to deal with them period

as well as the Thai citizens themselves refusing to give taxes to a non-government

then their time with their snouts in the trough would have been long over

 

As it stands now they ramp up instead with all the weapon purchases etc.

Which again questions the critical thinking of not just the Thai's but Non-Imm's that support them

thru living there

I was thinking a different meaning to "support" 

[anono222]

Meechai....  You are mixing processes.  Many of us long-timers arrived during less volatile times.  We have made relationships, some got married and have children.  Over time, living in Thailand has become more vexing and stressful.  We cannot help but wonder why critical thinking is in such great demand as our lives have changed dramatically.  Yet, the real question you pose is why don't we use critical thinking ourselves and pack up and move.  When you consider what you ask, the answer probably has little to do with money or the ability to settle up and bail, and especially not critical thinking.  The answer for many of us is an emotional one.  Do we toss the years of life spent here away like garbage?  Do we deny the emotional attachments, the friends, lovers and our children?  Are you the kind of person who can just say it critically makes sense because the country is going to the dogs?  Most of us expats cannot, but I can still call stupid stupid when I see it.   No irony involved!

[meechai]

On 8/6/2017 at 8:17 PM, Jiggyfly said:

Meechai....  You are mixing processes.  Many of us long-timers arrived during less volatile times.  We have made relationships, some got married and have children.  Over time, living in Thailand has become more vexing and stressful.  We cannot help but wonder why critical thinking is in such great demand as our lives have changed dramatically.  Yet, the real question you pose is why don't we use critical thinking ourselves and pack up and move.  When you consider what you ask, the answer probably has little to do with money or the ability to settle up and bail, and especially not critical thinking.  The answer for many of us is an emotional one.  Do we toss the years of life spent here away like garbage?  Do we deny the emotional attachments, the friends, lovers and our children?  Are you the kind of person who can just say it critically makes sense because the country is going to the dogs?  Most of us expats cannot, but I can still call stupid stupid when I see it.   No irony involved!

The answer to the Q's you ask me are yes

I had/have relationships

I am married & my wife & I left

 

That is exactly what we did.

Sold business

Sold House

Sold Truck & scooter, motorcycle etc etc etc

 

Got out while the getting was good.

But we have options & I understand (I think) your saying some do not.

Emotions are emotions not chains...The option always exists to return if it ever gets better

 

But then again from the years we lived in Thailand I saw most expats in Thailand without

options was without due to their own laziness & bad habits.

 

So yes stay & complain if you must, but the irony is thick.

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by meechai