North Korea tests another ICBM, putting U.S. cities in range

[rooster59]

North Korea tests another ICBM, putting U.S. cities in range

By Jack Kim, Elaine Lies and Idrees Ali

 

FILE PHOTO: The flag of North Korea is seen in Geneva, Switzerland, June 20, 2017. REUTERS/Pierre Albouy/File Photo

 

SEOUL/TOKYO/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - North Korea fired a missile on Friday that experts said was capable of striking Los Angeles and other U.S. cities and the United States and South Korea responded by staging a joint missile exercise, the South Korean news agency Yonhap said.

 

The Trump administration, which has branded North Korea the "most urgent and dangerous threat to peace," condemned the launch as reckless.

 

"By threatening the world, these weapons and tests further isolate North Korea, weaken its economy, and deprive its people," President Donald Trump said in a statement. "The United States will take all necessary steps to ensure the security of the American homeland and protect our allies in the region."

The unusual late-night launch added to exasperation in Washington, Seoul and Tokyo over Pyongyang's continuing development of nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). Friday's test prompted U.S. and South Korean military officials to discuss military response options.

 

North Korean President Kim Jong Un's military had already raised alarms early this month with its first ICBM launch.

 

"As a result of their launches of ICBM-level missiles, this clearly shows the threat to our nation's safety is severe and real," said Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who planned to call a meeting of his National Security Council.

 

The top U.S. military official, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Joseph Dunford, and Admiral Harry Harris, commander of U.S. Pacific Command, spoke by phone with the top South Korean military official, General Lee Sun-jin, to discuss military response options to the launch.

 

The Trump administration has said that all options are on the table, including military ones, however it has also made clear that diplomacy and sanctions are its preferred course.

 

Following a meeting of South Korea's National Security Council, South Korean President Moon Jae-in said he wanted the U.N. Security Council to discuss new and stronger sanctions against the North, the presidential Blue House said.

 

Later the United States and South Korea conducted a live-fire ballistic missile exercise in a display of firepower that South Korea's joint chiefs said showed their capabilities for a "precise strike on the enemy's leadership," Yonhap reported.

 

The two allies had staged a similar exercise after the North Korean test earlier in the month.

 

The launch from North Korea's northern Jangang province took place at 11:41 p.m. (1441 GMT), an official at South Korea's Office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said.

 

Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said the missile flew for about 45 minutes before apparently landing in the waters of Japan's exclusive economic zone.

 

Japanese broadcaster NHK, citing a military official, said the missile reached an altitude of more than 3,000 km (1,860 miles).

 

U.S. CITIES IN RANGE

 

The South Korean military said the missile was believed to be an ICBM-class, flying more than 1,000 km (620 miles) and reaching an altitude of 3,700 km (2,300 miles). In Washington, the Pentagon also said it had assessed that the missile was an ICBM.

 

U.S. officials said the Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA), the Pentagon spy agency, has determined that North Korea will be able to field a reliable nuclear-capable ICBM by next year, earlier than previously thought.

 

Jeffrey Lewis of the California-based Middlebury Institute of International Studies said the launch showed Los Angeles was within range of a North Korean missile, with Chicago, New York and Washington, just out of reach.

 

"They may not have demonstrated the full range. The computer models suggest it can hit all of those targets," he said.

 

The U.S.-based Union of Concerned Scientists said its calculations showed the missile could have been capable of going as far into the United States as Denver and Chicago.

 

Michael Elleman of the International Institute for Strategic Studies said the window for a diplomatic solution with North Korea "is closing rapidly."

 

"The key here is that North Korea has a second successful test in less than one month," he said. "If this trend holds, they could establish an acceptably reliable ICBM before year's end."

 

Los Angeles would be protected by the U.S. missile defence network, which includes four ground-based interceptors at Vandenberg Air Force base, 150 miles north of the city, and a second battery of 32 missiles in Alaska.

 

During a test on May 31 the missile defence system shot down an incoming ICBM missile aimed at the U.S. mainland and a Pentagon spokesman said the military had "confidence in our ability to defend against the limited threat."

 

Other authorities say the United States may not be able to seal itself off entirely from a North Korean ICBM attack.

 

A DAY AFTER SANCTIONS

 

Trump spoke with Abe and Chinese President Xi Jinping about North Korea's nuclear arsenal this month and has become frustrated that China has not reined in its ally Pyongyang.

 

Pentagon spokesman Captain Jeff Davis said Friday's launch had been expected and took place from Mupyong-ni, an arms plant in northern North Korea. It came a day after the U.S. Senate approved a package of sanctions on North Korea, Russia and Iran.

 

United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres condemned on Friday North Korea's launch of a "ballistic missile of possible intercontinental range," his spokesman said.

 

A Russian Defence Ministry official said Moscow's data indicated the launch was only of a medium-range ballistic missile, Russian news agency Tass reported. Diplomats say China and Russia only view a long-range missile test or nuclear weapon test as a trigger for further possible U.N. sanctions.

 

The European Union called it "an outright violation" of international obligations and a serious threat to international peace and security, and urged North Korea to engage in dialogue to pursue denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula.

 

EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini would discuss the matter with the foreign ministers of South Korea and other partners at the ASEAN ministerial meeting in Manila on Aug. 6-7.

 

The data on the trajectory indicate the missile was fired at a sharply lofted angle but packed more power than the missile launched on July 4 that U.S and South Korean officials said was an ICBM, potentially capable of hitting the U.S. mainland.

 

U.S. intelligence officials say that even if North Korea develops a reliable, nuclear-capable ICBM, which some say it remains several steps short of doing, the weapon would be almost useless except to deter the conventional attacks that Kim fears.

 

"Kim is determined to secure international recognition of the North as a nuclear armed state, for the purposes of security, prestige, and political legitimacy," the National Intelligence Council’s January Global Trends report said.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-29

 

[Somtamnication]

Time to go in and not worry about China's temper tantrums.

[Credo]

7 minutes ago, Somtamnication said:

Time to go in and not worry about China's temper tantrums.

Without the express consent of S. Korea and Japan, who are the most danger, this has the potential of being an extremely messy situation.   There is a lot we can't come close to predicting about N.K.

 

1.   Will they go Kamikaze on South Korea?

2.   How loyal are the people to Kim?   Is this going to be a situation like the one in WWII with the Emperor of Japan?   

3.  Who is going to pay the massive amount needed to rebuild, or should I say build, the Country?

 

We have to remember that it borders China and Russia.   I have a feeling there are going to be one heck of a lot of refugees when any action is over and years of rebuilding which will make Iraq look like a walk in the park.   

 

 

[quadperfect]

More sanctions should do it.

Look how well its working now.

Before it was just alaska but now its los angeles. Next week its new york.

 

[darksidedog]

Time for a Diplomatic solution appears to be running very short. This could get very, very nasty.

[jaggiss]

Ignore him. This is a no win situation for the west, Japan and S.Korea

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Gumballl]

17 minutes ago, quadperfect said:

More sanctions should do it.

Look how well its working now.

Before it was just alaska but now its los angeles. Next week its new york.

 

Yeah, sanctions against China.

[williamgeorgeallen]

remember iraq when they showed a bunch of drawings of WMDs that then did not actually exist? well it seems in this case the WMDs are real. hope they are putting together a game plan with japan and south korea to sort this out. americas battle carrier groups dont look like they are even in position. 

[Rancid]

I wonder sometimes at US policy, they do seem hell bent on creating enemies, what are they trying to achieve?. Traditionally it was always keep Russia and China, traditional enemies, at each others throats, whereas now they have been pushed together and are actually cooperating militarily.

 

Then we have N Korea, admittedly a vile regime, however extremely paranoid of the US after the complete devastation they received in the Korean war, add to that no peace treaty has ever been signed and yearly war games simulating an invasion. Are they after nukes for world conquest or as a "leave us alone or else" stance?

 

Then we have Iran, long term meddling in their affairs has made the US on the nose there as well, however they basically also seem to want to be just left alone. If they had nukes, which they don't, it would only balance the Israeli arsenal and create a MAD situation in the ME, so who apart from Israel really cares?

 

The US is currently struggling after invading Afghanistan, no one in history has done well there including the English and the Russians, seems like a money pit with no positive outcomes. So all these enemies are being accumulated, many  who don't even want to be enemies, wasn't it Hitler that ignored his generals about never fighting a war on two fronts? If the US ever got into a major conflict with all its enemies at the same time, do they actually in their wildest delusions imagine they would win? Therein lies my confusion.

[midas]

2 hours ago, Credo said:

Without the express consent of S. Korea and Japan, who are the most danger, this has the potential of being an extremely messy situation.   There is a lot we can't come close to predicting about N.K.

 

1.   Will they go Kamikaze on South Korea?

2.   How loyal are the people to Kim?   Is this going to be a situation like the one in WWII with the Emperor of Japan?   

3.  Who is going to pay the massive amount needed to rebuild, or should I say build, the Country?

 

We have to remember that it borders China and Russia.   I have a feeling there are going to be one heck of a lot of refugees when any action is over and years of rebuilding which will make Iraq look like a walk in the park.   

 

 

USA won't escape unscathed either when North Korea retaliates

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/06/02/newt-gingrich-north-korean-emp-threat.html

[retarius]

It flew for 1000km....hardly far enough to reach the US. If Kim had any sense at all and wants to save his regime he would be rapidly building up a large number of short range missiles to hit SK. Sending a lone missile to the US is a losing proposition, first it will get shot down and second the retaliation will wipe out Kim and NK for ever.

[midas]

13 minutes ago, retarius said:

It flew for 1000km....hardly far enough to reach the US. If Kim had any sense at all and wants to save his regime he would be rapidly building up a large number of short range missiles to hit SK. Sending a lone missile to the US is a losing proposition, first it will get shot down and second the retaliation will wipe out Kim and NK for ever.

 

Anyone who thinks North Korea it's just going to start this off is delusional. Everyone in the real world understands this is a needed deterrent by North Korea based on the number of regime changes America has engaged in recently.

I hope America doesn't again underestimate the capabilities of its enemy e.g. a small country not far from Thailand

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[ExpatOilWorker]

Hopefully little Kimmy's fat days are numbered. One day he will slip in the shower and break his neck. A more sensible general will step up to the plate and start the slow process of rebuilding NK from the inside.

[baboon]

19 minutes ago, midas said:

 

Anyone who thinks North Korea it's just going to start this off is delusional. Everyone in the real world understands this is a needed deterrent by North Korea based on the number of regime changes America has engaged in recently.

I hope America doesn't again underestimate the capabilities of its enemy e.g. a small country not far from Thailand

I agree wholeheartedly. However there are a huge number of people who to this day will drop everything and dance to the 'Global Menace' tune. One would think they might have learned after all these years but no, it never fails.

[midas]

11 minutes ago, baboon said:

I agree wholeheartedly. However there are a huge number of people who to this day will drop everything and dance to the 'Global Menace' tune. One would think they might have learned after all these years but no, it never fails.

That's because they've already got their alternative accommodation sorted out

 

 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Rancid said:

I wonder sometimes at US policy, they do seem hell bent on creating enemies, what are they trying to achieve?. Traditionally it was always keep Russia and China, traditional enemies, at each others throats, whereas now they have been pushed together and are actually cooperating militarily.

 

Then we have N Korea, admittedly a vile regime, however extremely paranoid of the US after the complete devastation they received in the Korean war, add to that no peace treaty has ever been signed and yearly war games simulating an invasion. Are they after nukes for world conquest or as a "leave us alone or else" stance?

 

Then we have Iran, long term meddling in their affairs has made the US on the nose there as well, however they basically also seem to want to be just left alone. If they had nukes, which they don't, it would only balance the Israeli arsenal and create a MAD situation in the ME, so who apart from Israel really cares?

 

The US is currently struggling after invading Afghanistan, no one in history has done well there including the English and the Russians, seems like a money pit with no positive outcomes. So all these enemies are being accumulated, many  who don't even want to be enemies, wasn't it Hitler that ignored his generals about never fighting a war on two fronts? If the US ever got into a major conflict with all its enemies at the same time, do they actually in their wildest delusions imagine they would win? Therein lies my confusion.

I think the idea is to keep nukes out of the hands of lunatics and regimes that would actually use them at the drop of a hat. It is bad enough that these crackpot dictators abuse their own people but when they are looking for the ability to extend that abuse beyond their borders then that affects us all.

 

It would be great if we had a world free of such weapons but the reality is if someone has them then someone else needs to have them in case they get carried away - remember history has taught us that humans can be very greedy and generally evil against one another, there are always those with a need dominate and control then there are the good guys that want to stop them.

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, smedly said:

I think the idea is to keep nukes out of the hands of lunatics and regimes that would actually use them at the drop of a hat. It is bad enough that these crackpot dictators abuse their own people but when they are looking for the ability to extend that abuse beyond their borders then that affects us all.

 

It would be great if we had a world free of such weapons but the reality is if someone has them then someone else needs to have them in case they get carried away - remember history has taught us that humans can be very greedy and generally evil against one another, there are always those with a need dominate and control then there are the good guys that want to stop them.

If the DPRK would use their nukes at the drop of a hat, then why haven't they done so already? After all, they are supposed to be crazy...

[attrayant]

As of yet, no hats have been dropped.  That's what this entire discussion revolves around.  

[Kiwiken]

The Big Boys club e.g the USa and Russia do not like anyone having Nukes

The USA after having got a kick start in their Manhatten project refused to share with their Ally Britain who gave it to them in the first place.

So the UK developed their own. They were followed by France. and then China.

Alarm bells were sounded when both the Former Soviet Union and China got Nukes that the end was nie

But nothing happened because all the Big boys realise the M.A.D doctrine = Mutually assured destruction

When India and then Pakistan developed Nuclear weapons again alarm bells sounded

Then clandestinely Israel and South Africa co developed Nukes

Yes now North Korea has nukes. Yes they seem to love brinkmanship but on the other hand even they do not really want Nuclear war any more than they truly believe they could win a conventional war.

I wil not be suprised if Japan and South Korea do not get if have already nuclear programs.

Iran has nothing to gain by having Nukes except becoming martyrs to an Israeli first strike.

North Korea can develop what it likes. I still sleep ok at night. Same old tunes just different violins.

[Fore Man]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

It flew for 1000km....hardly far enough to reach the US. If Kim had any sense at all and wants to save his regime he would be rapidly building up a large number of short range missiles to hit SK. Sending a lone missile to the US is a losing proposition, first it will get shot down and second the retaliation will wipe out Kim and NK for ever.

The shot landed 1,000-km away, but it was lofted at a steep angle, which shortened it's maximum range dramatically. Western scientists have calculated that if launched on a flatter angle, the ICBM could have easily reached well into the US mainland.  That being said, we don't know with certainty if a nK-designed nuclear warhead as exists today has reached sufficient design capability to survive reentry and detonate successfully. 

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, Rancid said:

I wonder sometimes at US policy, they do seem hell bent on creating enemies, what are they trying to achieve?. Traditionally it was always keep Russia and China, traditional enemies, at each others throats, whereas now they have been pushed together and are actually cooperating militarily.

 

 

Influence and as a result, control of key resources. oil, water, minerals, agricultural land etc.

 

If you accept that competition between nations and peoples will escalate to conflict which will escalate to military conflict every generation or two, then as a major power, you keep the conflict as far as possible from your own country and people.

 

One of the reasons for U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria (which I am not a fan of) is to keep the military conflict with Islamic ideology far away from the U.S. mainland.

 

So there is very little upside in the U.S. taking the pressure off North Korea, relenting on criticism of China's role or abandoning South Korea and Japan as key allies in the region.

[Krataiboy]

With the phony "war on terror" rapidly running out steam, and Trump and Putin too obviously pally to  pretend to punch it out in a new Cold War, North Korea suddenly going ballistic is Christmas come early for the puppet masters.

 

The  prospect of entire US cities being vaporised by flocks of ICBMs winging in from the People's Democratic Republic - however implausible this may seem to saner souls - is likely to turn the already paranoid population of the Land of the Free into putty.

 

It  will also increase pressure on China, whose continued support for their belligerent Communist neighbour is in danger of jeopardising Beijing's fiendishly cunning plan to conquer the US by stealth, rather than force, by turning the place into one ginormous Walmart.

 

Two birds, one stone - just like that.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by Krataiboy

[pkspeaker]

If N.Korea wanted to detonate a nuclear weapon or a few nuclear weapons in the US; Why use an ICBM?  They will see that coming and possibly shoot it down.  Why not use a submarine and creep up on the US, then launch a cruise missile, or even come ashore somewhere and smuggle it in?  

 

The reality is that a nuclear armed nation has many options if they want to launch a nuclear attack out of the blue w/o any specific reason.  The attack would likely lead back to them.  So if they really wanted to attack the US with nuclear weapons-which they have had for some time, then they would have done it already and same goes with Iran.   ICBMs is the same technology is used for launching satellites so it's difficult to tell these countries 'you are not allowed to do that'.

Edited July 29, 2017 by pkspeaker

[Xaos]

Boom

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

If N.Korea wanted to detonate a nuclear weapon or a few nuclear weapons in the US; Why use an ICBM?  They will see that coming and possibly shoot it down.  Why not use a submarine and creep up on the US, then launch a cruise missile, or even come ashore somewhere and smuggle it in?  

 

The reality is that a nuclear armed nation has many options if they want to launch a nuclear attack out of the blue w/o any specific reason.  The attack will linly lead back to them.  So if they really wanted to attack the US with nuclear weapons-which they have had for some time, then they would have done it already and same goes with Iran.   ICBMs is the same technology is used for launching satellites so it's difficult to tell these countries 'you are not allowed to do that'.

Or, 'You are not allowed to do that, but it is just fine when we do. Because we say so.'

[pkspeaker]

46 minutes ago, midas said:

That's because they've already got their alternative accommodation sorted out

 

 

I think even if you did own one of those things; it would be like a movie script.. A MOB of people would be demanding that you let them in.  OK then fukem, we'll lock that big door and run the generators and wind propeller and solar panels... I don't think so.. that big generator you got needs to have an exhaust that leads up to the surface-they shut that down and there goes the generator and then they break your solar panels.. and they can cut your air supply too.. now your down there in the dark!  still won't open up, how about some explosives on that big door, can't get in but it breaks the door-now your STUCK down there!

 

If I was that rich I WOULD NOT buy one of these things.. What kind of a rich <deleted> thinks he gonna go down there and live it up while all these 'poor' people suffer on the outside like zombies.  I would never want to do that, I'd rather put my faith in group of people who will work together to try to make it by sharing food, growing what you can and raise whatever livestock you can, being well armed etc.  

 

[blazes]

If N Korea could really reach the American mainland with one of their pipsqueak missiles, you would hope that all American taxpayers would rise up in revolutionary anger, asking why the eff all American governments are spending  billions on "defense" if they can't flick off like a fleck of dust the Kim's mighty missiles.

 

The military/ industrial complex....Eisenhower, where are you now?

[maewang99]

this is an unusual anomaly.

I just happen to be halfway thru Eric Schlosser's Command and Control.... 

the US general public is never told the real skinny on this topic.. even by it's enemies... anymore than it is on Climate Change... you have to do a ton of digging on your own even if you have a close relative or personal friend.. shall we say... a tad too closely involved in the real skinny..... on either of these. it's simple. it's a social thing.

for a reason.

and not a good one. that's why these 2 things are like that.

but Kim Jung Un is breaking it.







 

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by maewang99

[just.a.thought]

Meddling again and again, I don't get this desire to impose the norm and culture on everyone by the US. They don't want to get rid of their nukes, but nobody sanctions them? Try sanction China for not stopping their crazy neighbor,or is trade more important than peace. Looking for prolonged conflicts to sell more weapons.