I think it all boils down to one's feelings about capital punishment. An eye for an eye is not necessarily the best way as it brings those administering the punishment down to the same level as the criminal.

I think that is the main issue for us in this thread. We can think about wether, we are for or against Cap Pun, but at the end of the day in Iraq (same as Thailand) they have Capital Punishment, period. Personally i'm for it, especially in cases like this but that is my opinion. I haven't watched (and won't) the video as i agree with red, it is sick, if the taunting etc. is true.

I agree that this won't make the situation in Iraq any better but if the family's of those who he butchered, get some sort of "Closure" from it, well, i think it's worth it.

i feel sad when i attend a traffic accident and an innocent person or persons have died a painful horrible death.

cant say saddam died that way and he really got out easy whilst his many victims died in agony.

how anyone can feel sorry for him is beyond me.

better to save your symphathy for the good people in this world that deserve it.

dont know what the big fuss is with the video as one never seen very much at all.

the quality was a shocker and you did not even see the snap.

How do you know if the person trapped in the car is an innocent person or not? Will you do nothing if you saw Saddam trapped inside?

How are we qualified to say who is bad and who is good?

His daughter might think he is a very good man?

Did we see everything Saddam went through in his life?

I can only believe he deserved it but can never be sure if he is 100% evil. I never knew him.

i feel sad when i attend a traffic accident and an innocent person or persons have died a painful horrible death.

cant say saddam died that way and he really got out easy whilst his many victims died in agony.

how anyone can feel sorry for him is beyond me.

better to save your symphathy for the good people in this world that deserve it.

dont know what the big fuss is with the video as one never seen very much at all.

the quality was a shocker and you did not even see the snap.

How do you know if the person trapped in the car is an innocent person or not? Will you do nothing if you saw Saddam trapped inside?

How are we qualified to say who is bad and who is good?

His daughter might think he is a very good man?

Did we see everything Saddam went through in his life?

I can only believe he deserved it but can never be sure if he is 100% evil. I never knew him.

i think your drawing a long bow there meemaithai, and im sure you now what i mean by my post as its not that hard to decifer.

dont you think your making a mountain out of a mole hill by raising those questions as they are not relevant to the crime's he committ'ed.

its like trying to defend hitler against the gassing of the jews.

just dont stand up mate.

if saddam was a man he would of topped him self before the yanks found him.

all this drama because the boys give him a bit of bother before they necked him.

the actual hanging is nothing compared to what can be found on the internet these days.

theres one sight that shows the iraq's cutting of the heads of hostages with knives.

now thats hard core and these hostages were there to help the iraq'y people.

go figure.

Did we see everything Saddam went through in his life?

I can only believe he deserved it but can never be sure if he is 100% evil. I never knew him.

that's true...

people nowdays simply got so much used to everything they are fed by mass media that they don't even pause to think about that.

now, here is an interesting read which somehow reminds of S. Thailand - particularly absence of clear agenda and fighting "shadow warriors" - only in Iraq and not by Thai army but by US:

Ignoring the real enemy in Iraq

Jan 4, 2007

By Gareth Porter

The Bush administration routinely cites the threat of creating a "terrorist haven" in Iraq if the US were to withdraw without "victory". But by continuing a war against the Sunni resistance forces and providing unconditional support for largely Shi'ite military and police forces, the US administration has in effect taken the pressure off al-Qaeda in Iraq.

... the most striking thing about the George W Bush administration's policy in 2006 was its inability to identify the primary enemy in Iraq...

Is Iraq really about the "global war on terror", the alleged threat from Iran, the danger emanating from sectarian war, or simply the US administration's desire to claim success against the resistance to the occupation itself? The Bush administration has not been able to issue a clear policy statement on that question.

Even after the Iraq Study Group's recommendation for a major withdrawal of US forces in 2007, Bush appears to be poised for a "surge" or even a "big push", sending as many as 40,000 additional troops to Iraq. But Bush has been unwilling to identify which of the several forces in Iraq would be the target of those additional US forces.

Since Bush has touted the occupation of Iraq as the front line in the "war on terror", he might be expected to focus like a laser on al-Qaeda as the primary enemy. After all, he routinely cited the threat of creating a "terrorist haven" in Iraq if the United States were to withdraw without "victory". But by continuing a war against the Sunni resistance forces and providing unconditional support for largely Shi'ite military and police forces, the US administration has in effect taken the pressure off al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Bush's de facto support for militant Iraqi Shi'ites against the anti-jihadist Sunni resistance has been a losing proposition from every perspective. It has increased regional tensions by appearing to strengthen Iraqi forces aligned with Iran, fueled sectarian war, and eased the pressure on the one enemy on which most US citizens might agree should be targeted - al-Qaeda in Iraq. Clarifying the murky logic driving that policy and its consequences may be a major preoccupation of US Senate committees in 2007.

Gareth Porter is a historian and national-security policy analyst. His latest book, Perils of Dominance: Imbalance of Power and the Road to War in Vietnam, was published in June 2005.

I think the following article explains even a lot more the whole story of Saddam's execution (especialy part highlited in green) and the real situation in Iraq nowdays:

More fuel on Iraq's spreading flames

Jan 3, 2007

By W Joseph Stroupe

The US, desperate to pull a "win" from the flames of failure in Iraq, has lit the fuse of a regionwide sectarian explosion. Iraq will almost inevitably break apart along Shi'ite-Sunni lines. That will oblige the surrounding states of Iran, Turkey and Syria to intervene to secure their respective, and conflicting, interests. Additionally, Sunni Arab states will also act on behalf of their Sunni brethren in Iraq.

The year 2003 marked the implementation of bold and reckless strategies aimed at handing the US and Britain virtual ownership of the crucial Middle East region and far beyond, but 2006 was the year all the negative repercussions of their failed policies finally converged, obliging the two reckless powers to stare into the yawning chasm of a regional forfeiture.

Now, 2007 is the year that marks the full-blown arrival of the endgame in the Middle East, when the US, Britain and Israel attempt somehow to pull a "win" from the mauling flames of regionwide failure. Their desperate policy of "one last push" to achieve that win is already shoving all the region's fractious players into a similar endgame stance, powerfully accelerating the region's descent into instability and upheaval as all its players take postures to make their final moves to prevent the loss of their respective goals and interests, each one attempting to win the game before time and opportunity run out.

However, while the region is certainly characterized by a multitude of fractious entities all struggling for advantage and ascendancy, the negative effects of the ill-fated US/British invasion and occupation of Iraq and now their "one last push for a win before defeat" policies are causing the region's varied sectarian, political and militaristic factions to polarize. They are lining up on only two fundamental sides, with the ever more distinct dividing line between them constituted as the issue of Shi'ite against Sunni in a struggle for regional ascendancy and domination.

Thus the entire region is sharply mirroring the bipolar sectarian configuration of Iraq itself - with Shi'ites and their sympathizers and supporters on one side and Sunnis and their sympathizers and supporters on the other.

........

In 2007 the final consequences of the United States' failed policies will arrive. Those consequences are extremely unlikely to include anything resembling the "win" still hoped for by the US, Britain and Israel, for the simple reason that all the evidence points to the conclusion that the regional tipping point toward ascendancy by the Shi'ite faction may already have been reached.

Now, the US and Britain are faced with the insurmountable problem of finding a way, at this extremely late date, to restore a rough balance of power to the region by attempting to reconstruct something similar to the mechanisms they eliminated and failed to replace in 2003....

Sectarian passions on both sides are already running far too high across the region to facilitate any form of manageable transition from the current simmering and mounting chaos to a hoped-for return to a rough balance of power. The US and Britain are playing with the lighting of the fuse of a regionwide sectarian explosion.

Are the two powers any more prepared to handle its multi-sphere implications and repercussions than they were prepared for those resulting from their 2003 invasion of Iraq? No, they most certainly are not prepared - but they are decidedly desperate to pull a "win" from the flames of failure, even if it means intentionally orchestrating a regional sectarian explosion whose outcome they imagine they can succeed in controlling.

When the US and Britain stubbornly ignored repeated warnings and invaded Iraq, they allowed themselves to be tied into a Gordian knot whose compound filaments are much stronger than high-tensile steel. The more vigorously they have struggled to free themselves from that self-made knot, the tighter it has constricted their interests and goals in the region, so at present they are near to being crushed. The "one last push for victory before defeat" strategies represent what they hope will be their ingenious insight to raise the sword and cut across the knot....

Shi'ite-Sunni rivalry inside Iraq is only being kept from a full-blown detonation by the presence of US and British forces....

The hurried execution of Saddam on an Islamic holy day held sacred by Sunnis and other sects across the region and the brutal Shi'ite behavior evident at the execution scene before and after the hanging are also likely to exacerbate greatly the region's sectarian rivalries as Shi'ites engage in triumphalism and Sunnis fear that the Baghdad regime is arising as a decidedly Shi'ite, Iran-friendly one that will soon be instrumental with partners Iran and Syria in overturning the longtime Sunni domination of its Shi'ite brethren.

The New York Times has revealed that top US officials advised the Iraqi government not to rush to execute Saddam, but the US was entirely overridden by the Shi'ite Nuri al-Maliki's government. In truth, Iraq has long since become a Shi'ite-dominated train the US can no longer control. The entire region's Shi'ite and Sunni factions are becoming ever more bold and determined to "pull out a win".

In the resulting chaos, which will most likely be anything but manageable, the oil-rich Sunni regimes will be at grave risk of collapse in the face of the storm waves of Shi'ite-Sunni sectarian rivalry crashing against them both from within and from without.

As the endgame arrives prompted by destructive US/British policies and strategies, Iraq will almost inevitably break apart along sectarian lines as its factions vie for ascendancy. That will oblige the surrounding states of Iran, Turkey and Syria to intervene to secure their respective, and conflicting, interests. Additionally, the Sunni Arab states will also intervene on behalf of their Sunni brethren in Iraq.

As the US and Britain work to instigate the return to a regional balance of power by implementing their last-ditch strategies and policies, they will instead bring on the full-blown arrival of the Middle East endgame in which something other than the regionwide stalemate they envisage will be the result. One of the region's sectarian factions will win the game, thereby rising to ascendancy across the region.

Not a restoration of a balance of power, but rather a further chaotic tipping of the balance toward one faction will be the most likely result of the implementation of their strategies. The Bush and Blair administrations are not known for their ability to conceive truly brilliant strategies and wisely implement them on the ground - hence the impending exhibition of their latest foreign-policy "talents" in the Middle East should be more than sufficient cause for alarm.

W Joseph Stroupe is author of the new book Russian Rubicon: Impending Checkmate of the West and editor of Global Events Magazine online at www.GeoStrategyMap.com.

I think US & UK are trying to play a clever game of shooting few rabbits with one shot: to ignite the much bigger scale conflict in the OIL RICH region, and hope to benefit from it in the end.

however if even on the scale of Iraq they are alright out of control and tighed up with their ilusion of "one last push" - how they expect to "pull a win" from much larger scale conflict.

I remember now that some seers in Thailand has mentioned (in predictions for 2007) that a very large conflict in ME may become something like WW3 !

i feel sad when i attend a traffic accident and an innocent person or persons have died a painful horrible death.

cant say saddam died that way and he really got out easy whilst his many victims died in agony.

how anyone can feel sorry for him is beyond me.

better to save your symphathy for the good people in this world that deserve it.

dont know what the big fuss is with the video as one never seen very much at all.

the quality was a shocker and you did not even see the snap.

How do you know if the person trapped in the car is an innocent person or not? Will you do nothing if you saw Saddam trapped inside?

How are we qualified to say who is bad and who is good?

His daughter might think he is a very good man?

Did we see everything Saddam went through in his life?

I can only believe he deserved it but can never be sure if he is 100% evil. I never knew him.

Somehow I doubt even his daughter would think he was a good man since, if I remember correctly, he had her husband killed.

i feel sad when i attend a traffic accident and an innocent person or persons have died a painful horrible death.

cant say saddam died that way and he really got out easy whilst his many victims died in agony.

how anyone can feel sorry for him is beyond me.

better to save your symphathy for the good people in this world that deserve it.

dont know what the big fuss is with the video as one never seen very much at all.

the quality was a shocker and you did not even see the snap.

How do you know if the person trapped in the car is an innocent person or not? Will you do nothing if you saw Saddam trapped inside?

How are we qualified to say who is bad and who is good?

His daughter might think he is a very good man?

Did we see everything Saddam went through in his life?

I can only believe he deserved it but can never be sure if he is 100% evil. I never knew him.

Somehow I doubt even his daughter would think he was a good man since, if I remember correctly, he had her husband killed.

Actually daughter(s), Saddam killed both son-in-laws!!!

Saddam killed both son-in-laws!!!

Didn't one of the son's body doubles, get killed as well ?

Forgot to ask - they fled Iraq after first gulf war with the Saddam's daughters in tow. Anyways daughters wanted to return and the stupid lads returned with them, and by all accounts knew they would be killed. (perhaps suicide is more appropriate)

Saddam....?, Why do I feel like this....?

according to recent reports, a lot more people feel alike:

Throngs protest Saddam hanging in Jordan

With shouts of "Death to America and to Iran," the crowd estimated by reporters at about 3,000 marched from a mosque in downtown Amman after noon prayers, holding portraits of Saddam and waving the Iraqi flag.

In Lebanon on Friday, some 500 protesters carried a coffin wrapped with an Iraqi flag in a staged funeral to honor Saddam.

Saddam death disappoints Egypt's leader

JERUSALEM - Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak condemned the conduct of Saddam Hussein's execution and its timing at the start of a Muslim religious festival, saying in an interview published Friday that the hanging made the deposed leader "a martyr."

Mubarak told Israeli daily Yediot Ahronot that when it became clear that the hanging was imminent, he sent a message to President Bush, asking that it not be carried out during the Eid al-Adha holiday.

"Don't do it at this time," Mubarak said he told Bush. "Why is it necessary to hang (him) just at the time when people are saying the holiday prayers?"

"I'm not going to say whether Saddam deserved the death penalty or not," Mubarak said. "I'm also not going to go into the question of whether that court is legal under the occupation."

"When all's said and done, nobody will ever forget the circumstances and the manner in which Saddam was executed," he added. "They have made him into a martyr, while the problems within Iraq remain."

I agree with Mubarak and I think that it doesn't require one to be a genius to understand that, as he said - problems in Iraq remain the same.

only they might deepen due to escalation of sectarian violance after Saddam's execution:

Images of Hanging Make Hussein a Martyr to Many

from NY Times

In Libya, which canceled celebrations of the feast of Id al-Adha after the execution, a government statement said a statue depicting Mr. Hussein in the gallows would be erected, along with a monument to Omar al-Mukhtar, who resisted the Italian invasion of Libya and was hanged by the Italians in 1931.

In Morocco and the Palestinian territories, demonstrators held aloft photographs of Mr. Hussein and condemned the United States.

“God ###### America and its spies,” a banner across one major Beirut thoroughfare read. “Our condolences to the nation for the assassination of Saddam, and victory to the Iraqi resistance.”

By standing up to the United States and its client government in Baghdad and dying with seeming dignity, Mr. Hussein appears to have been virtually cleansed of his past.

At the heart of the sudden reversal of opinion was the symbolism of the hasty execution, now framed as an act of sectarian vengeance shrouded in political theater and overseen by the American occupation.

In much of the predominantly Sunni Arab world, the timing of the execution in the early hours of Id al-Adha, which is among the holiest days of the Muslim year, when violence is forbidden and when even Mr. Hussein himself sometimes released prisoners, was seen as a direct insult to the Sunni world.

Was Saddam's Execution a Message to Shiites?

from Spiegel on-line

The clandestine video of Saddam's execution has become a bestseller among Shiites in Baghdad. German papers wonder if the public spectacle was a deliberate inflammation of Shiite sentiment.

Saddam: From monster to martyr?

from Independent

8 January 2007 01:34

How Bush and Blair's choices have led to disaster in Iraq,

culminating in a chaotic execution that is fuelling civil war

By Patrick Cockburn

It takes real genius to create a martyr out of Saddam Hussein. Here is a man dyed deep with the blood of his own people who refused to fight for him during the United States-led invasion three-and-a-half years ago. His tomb in his home village of Awja is already becoming a place of pilgrimage for the five million Sunni Arabs of Iraq who are at the core of the uprising....

At first the US and Britain did not care what Iraqis thought. Their victory over the Iraqi army - and earlier over the Taliban in Afghanistan - had been too easy. They installed a semi-colonial regime. By the time they realised that the guerrilla war was serious it was too late.

It could get worse yet. The so-called "surge" in US troop levels by 20,000 to 30,000 men on top of the 145,000 soldiers already in the country is unlikely to produce many dividends. It seems primarily designed so that President George Bush does not have to admit defeat or take hard choices about talking to Iran and Syria. But these reinforcements might tempt the US to assault the Mehdi Army.

Iraq PM warns over Saddam hanging

Iraqi PM Nouri Maliki has said his government could review relations with any country which criticised the execution of ex-leader Saddam Hussein.

ha! I'd like to see if Maliki would try to review relations with UK, because plainly Blair and few of his fellows in fgovernment has openly criticised that very matter:

Blair finds manner of Saddam hanging 'completely wrong'

even Bush said something like almost a regret:

Bush talks about Iraq, Saddam execution

WASHINGTON - President Bush said Thursday he wished the execution of Saddam Hussein "had gone in a more dignified way."

"My personal reaction is that Saddam Hussein was given a trial that he was unwilling to give the thousands of people he killed," Bush said. "He was given a fair trial — something he was unwilling to give thousands of Iraqi citizens who he brutalized."

"I wish, obviously, that the proceedings had gone on in a more dignified way," Bush said. "But, nevertheless, he was given justice. The thousands of people he killed were not."

Bush announced that he would go before the nation next week with his long-anticipated speech about the next steps in Iraq....

Questions about what the president's plan will mean for the U.S. military presence in Iraq have gotten the most attention.

One option presented to Bush calls for an initial infusion of 8,000 to 9,000 troops, mainly to reinforce Baghdad. The option involves sending two additional Army brigades, or roughly 7,000 soldiers, to Baghdad, and two Marine battalions, totaling about 1,500 troops, to western Anbar Province, the center of the Sunni Arab insurgency.

so, as that article in Independent mentioned it:

An attack on the Shia militia men of the Mehdi Army could finally lead to the collapse of Iraq into total anarchy. Saddam must already be laughing in his grave.

All the truely innocent people who face the death penalty and all you people say nothing, but when saddam hussein is excecuted suddenly you shake your heads and wag your fingers?

All the truely innocent people who face the death penalty...

And which ones would those be?...

All the truely innocent people who face the death penalty...

And which ones would those be?...

Ron Williamson

Earl Washington

Frank Lee Smith

Charles Fain

Ray Krone

Former Illinois Governor George Ryan:

"Because of all these reasons, today I am commuting the sentences of all death row inmates," Ryan said.

Ryan's decision affects 156 inmates on death row in Illinois and 11 others who have been sentenced to death but who were not in the custody of the Department of Corrections because they are awaiting re-sentencing or trials in other cases. Some were also in other states' custody.

Ryan, a Republican who did not run for re-election in November, acknowledged during his speech that his actions would not be universally applauded. But he said he felt he had no choice but to strike a blow in "what is shaping up to be one of the great civil rights struggles of our time."

Ryan, who leaves office Monday, pardoned four death row inmates Friday after determining they had been tortured into confessing crimes they did not commit.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/11/illinois....row/index.html

it says TORTURED? no! there must be a mistake - there is no torture in US - only evil Saddam did it. and especially can't possibly be execution of innocent people.

Good news for Saddam, the courts have dropped all charges against him...oh, wait .

I think a few people here missed Reds point ... he wasnt judging whether Sadam should have been hanged or not just saying that it gave him no pleasure to watch him get executed and to be honest I agree with him ... it gave me no pleasure either ....

Maybe its the United in us Red ...

Thanks fella.

I agree. Never had any love lost for Saddam and it's completely obvious he deserved a severe punishment.

Can't defend capital punishment though in my opinion.

I don't disagree with it, I really don't but, surely there's a right and a wrong way to go about it.

I think Red missed the point that there is no question this man devastated thousands of families and gassed children to death. Good thing Hitler and Goebbels offed themselves or they'd have been paroled in the 70's

As if we'd ever agree anyway.

I missed no point at all. Saddam deserved to die.

To bring World Wars into it just shows how wide of the mark you are.

Benefits?

How about the fact that the people of Iraq can now rest in the knowledge Saddam can never come back, his regime has ended. Its the closing of a chapter, however right or wrong the hanging is/was.

I'd agree, if Iraq was basking in its own new found safety with hopes for economic stability 5 to 10 years away.

It was symbolic, nothing more.. It hasn't changed anything in the world, Iraq still has it's problems

totster

More problems I think mate.

I think it all boils down to one's feelings about capital punishment. An eye for an eye is not necessarily the best way as it brings those administering the punishment down to the same level as the criminal.

I think that is the main issue for us in this thread. We can think about wether, we are for or against Cap Pun, but at the end of the day in Iraq (same as Thailand) they have Capital Punishment, period. Personally i'm for it, especially in cases like this but that is my opinion. I haven't watched (and won't) the video as i agree with red, it is sick, if the taunting etc. is true.

I agree that this won't make the situation in Iraq any better but if the family's of those who he butchered, get some sort of "Closure" from it, well, i think it's worth it.

Well said fella.

it says TORTURED? no! there must be a mistake - there is no torture in US - only evil Saddam did it. and especially can't possibly be execution of innocent people.

Someone buy this guy a drink or seven, he's hit my nail on the head no less....!

redrus

There’s been a rash of mainstream media stories expressing sorrow at the passing of Saddam Hussein, but this one in the Daily Mail takes the prize: Daughter denied final call to Saddam

There’s been a rash of mainstream media stories expressing sorrow at the passing of Saddam Hussein, but this one in the Daily Mail takes the prize: Daughter denied final call to Saddam

No matter what the man did, WE have lowered oursleves down to that level and it is this that bothers me!

And now Mr.Blair reckons it was wrong. Too late and I'm scared!

- Barbara Jones, Liverpool, UK

redrus

Good riddance - and btw haven't seen the video nor do I care to.

Was watching the news when he died and the channal was saying here are some people happy with the sentence and they showed Iraqi's in the streets dancing, a Krudish family in Texas doing a Muslim conga line, and Krudish man in Philly who was tortured by Saddams goons releasing doves.

Then the news went to the people who aren't happy and it was a bald, bi-speckled white guy holding a sign and saying that at the end of the day the American was behind this death.

Somehow this seemed unbalanced to me.

Tapes show Saddam and cousin discussed killing thousands.

Oh, but there were never any WMDs, right? Tell that to the Kurds

Saddam Hussein and his cousin “Chemical Ali” discussed how chemical weapons would exterminate thousands before unleashing them on Kurds in 1988, according to tapes played on Monday in a trial of former Iraqi officials.

“I will strike them with chemical weapons and kill them all and danm anyone who is going to say anything,” a voice identified by prosecutors as “Chemical Ali” Hassan al-Majeed is heard saying.

“Yes it’s effective, especially on those who don’t wear a mask immediately, as we understand,” a voice identified as Saddam is heard saying on another tape.

“Sir, does it exterminate thousands?” a voice asks back.

“Yes, it exterminates thousands and forces them not to eat or drink and they will have to evacuate their homes without taking anything with them, until we can finally purge them,” the voice identified as Saddam answers.

With Saddam’s chair empty, Majeed and five other Baath party officials were being tried for their roles in the 1988 Anfal (Spoils of War) military campaign in northern Kurdistan.

Prosecutors said 180,000 people were killed, many of them gassed. Many Kurds regret the chief suspect can no longer face justice for his role in the campaign against them, but they hope others share his fate on the gallows."

Not that we didn’t already know this, but it puts a nice punctuation mark on it, having tapes of them discussing their genocidal deeds. (Although I’m sure there are some pathetic losers who would still deny it, much like Holocaust deniers live in a perpetual state of hate-filled insanity.)

Ok here are a few other facts that don't make it into mainstream press..

Makes me wonder who should be on trial and who poses the greatest threat

Turkey have been bombing non military sites in Northern Iraq since the first gulf war.

Sanctions against Iraq directly responsible for half a million child deaths in Iraq

prior to first gulf war Iraq provided free education for men and women up to university level

Prior to first gulf war Iraq had one of the worlds best free health care systems

estimated 29000 iraqi civilian deaths directly attributable to the removal of sadam

The monetary cost of operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom to the end of FY 2006 has exceeded $400 billion (including reconstruction assistance). Additional cost is presently accruing at a rate of approximately $10 billion per month. The broader fiscal context of this expenditure is defined by US federal budget deficits in the range of $400 billion per annum (on budget) and a gross national debt of $8.5 trillion -- of which $2.5 trillion accumulated during the past five years.

The rate of terrorism fatalities for the 59-month period following 11 September 2001 is 250 percent that of the 44.5 month period preceding and including the 9/11 attacks. This figure has been adjusted to account for the different length of the two periods and it implies an increase in average monthly fatalities of 150 percent. (Only in January 1998 did the database begin to include both national and international terrorism incidents.)

The rate of terrorist incidents for the post-9/11 period is 268 percent that of the period prior to and including 11 September 2001. This implies a 167 percent increase in what might be called the average monthly rate of incidents.

A fair portion of the increased activity is related to the war in Iraq -- but not all. Removing Iraq from the picture shows an increase in the average monthly rate of terrorism fatalities of more than 10 percent for the post-9/11 period. The increase in the rate of incidents not counting Iraq is 75 percent.

Has it all been worth it?

Linking Afghanistan and Iraq doesn't make sense. Afghanistan is the home base of terrorists who have attacked western targets, osama bin laden in particular, who was allowed to escape because the Bush administration was too busy planning to settle an old score in Iraq.

Afghanistan's securing and rebuilding would have eliminated a terrorist stronghold. Iraq just created a new one.

In afganistan the net result is a ten block democracy, again has the human cost been worth it?

And with an estimation of between 53000 and 58000 civilian deaths in iraq, are you suprised by an upsurge in resistance to American plans for that country.

If we took at face value the reasoning behind the invasion and "liberation" of Iraq I wil ask again has it been worth it to both the coalition and the Iraqi populus?

remove the last small point that mentioned Afganistan in my original post if you like, then focus on the remaining 95% of my points if you wish to be pedantic

, osama bin laden in particular, who was allowed to escape because the Bush administration was too busy planning to settle an old score in Iraq.

Wrong...no revisionist history allowed 'round here, vic.

Bubba and M. Albright allowed bin laden to flee from the Sudan - State department was notified as well as Clinton (was occupied on other matters at the time defending himself from impeachment due to lies told to Congress etc) as 'our' government gave bin laden a pass.

If we took at face value the reasoning behind the invasion and "liberation" of Iraq I wil ask again has it been worth it to both the coalition and the Iraqi populus?

In the long run YES!!

BTW you neglected to mention, the human cost inflicted by Saddam and the Taliban.

we are not allowed to link Iraq and Afganistan

so lets have a head count of deaths directly attributable to sadam Hussain..I belive he was convicted of being culpable for the deaths of 136 people

Iraq has been a total waste of money and lives. If getting rid of saddam was they key, it could have been done in many other ways. Iraqi casualties aside, the Bush administration, and PM's Blair and Howard owed it to their soldiers not to send them in harms way without just cause. I can see the justification in Afghanistan, but not Iraq.

The only ones I have less respect for than the Bush administration is the opposition legislators who now oppose the war openly but at the time voted to send 3000+ countrymen to their deaths because they were afraid to be called unpatriotic.

If we took at face value the reasoning behind the invasion and "liberation" of Iraq I wil ask again has it been worth it to both the coalition and the Iraqi populus?

In the long run YES!!

BTW you neglected to mention, the human cost inflicted by Saddam and the Taliban.

Worth it to who?

Halliburton..maybe