Wife opening a food stall in Nakhon Phanom.

[freethinker]

So my wife is currently selling food out of her Isaan house and makes a small profit but she usually run out of food before she runs out of customers as she lacks the proper utilities to prepare food on a larger scale. 

She wants to make a real go of it and naturally that means I will have to finance it. 

 

What she says she need is the following:

Bricks to make another room in her house for a proper kitchen and some electrical work. (Some of this money will also go towards making a private room for me in the house for when I stay there and for a proper toilet.)

Gas stove with oven (10-20k baht depending on brand and model) 

Freezer

Beverage set, pots and pans and dishes. 

Money to buy inventory. 

Permit.

 

She estimates she will need 100k baht in total and that money will also keep her afloat for a few month before she can turn some kind of profit and get a broader customer base. 

 

I don't doubt my wife's work ethic or good intentions however I have no idea what kind of profits a small restaurant/food stall can even generate. I realize I will never get my seed money back however if she can become self sustaining i would call it a victory.

 

I'm slightly worried that the locals will see a farang funded food stall as a "free lunch" and will try to get out of paying and expecting free meals. I also have no idea how much money the villagers have or how large the potential customer base is. The good news is that her house is very close to a large government office and she claims most of her customers come from there. 

 

My main concern is local free loaders who "borrow" food or will "pay later" as I don't know how "jai dee" my wife is when it comes to dealing with the villagers. While I believe my wife to be pretty savvy when it comes to money I really have no idea how good her business sense is and whether she will really understand that a business will need to turn a profit and that I won't want to keep funding  a bleeding business. 

 

Anyone have an experience in this matter? How much did you invest and what kind of profit was had if any. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by freethinker

[oldgent]

you have to many concerns about this, firstly i dont think your wife will let the locals take advantage.

what you will be doing is improving her home which with a good builder will not cost a lot.

you can get second hand kitchen equipment which would start her off and if successful buy new.

the problem i had was a small coffee shop which just about covered the rent and supplies my lady

got despondent because she could not see profit, therefore lost interest and gave up.

that would be the only problem i see, apart from it costing you money but she is your wife. 

 

[freethinker]

6 minutes ago, oldgent said:

you have to many concerns about this, firstly i dont think your wife will let the locals take advantage.

what you will be doing is improving her home which with a good builder will not cost a lot.

you can get second hand kitchen equipment which would start her off and if successful buy new.

the problem i had was a small coffee shop which just about covered the rent and supplies my lady

got despondent because she could not see profit, therefore lost interest and gave up.

that would be the only problem i see, apart from it costing you money but she is your wife. 

 

 

Thanks for your reply. 

I suppose I'm just being cynical after having read thread after thread about failing farang funded businesses. 

Buying second hand is probably a good idea. I will shop around next time I'm up there and see how much money she will actually need. If she asks me for 100k she can probably make due with half of it if she forgoes making it "beautiful". 

In any case I can live with losing the money as much of it will go to actually improving the house and buying utilities so worst case scenario she gets some new stuff. Hell I spent almost twice that buying a new TV and sound bar for my self last month :D 

 

[Kadilo]

 
Thanks for your reply. 
I suppose I'm just being cynical after having read thread after thread about failing farang funded businesses. 
Buying second hand is probably a good idea. I will shop around next time I'm up there and see how much money she will actually need. If she asks me for 100k she can probably make due with half of it if she forgoes making it "beautiful". 
In any case I can live with losing the money as much of it will go to actually improving the house and buying utilities so worst case scenario she gets some new stuff. Hell I spent almost twice that buying a new TV and sound bar for my self last month :D 
 

I was gonna say 100,000 isn't a great deal in the context of improving your home worst case scenario.
I can understand you being a bit sceptical if she's a bit of a softie and gets people taking advantage of her good nature do to speak.
If it was me, I would give her an opportunity and show your faith in her.
As you say worse case, she gets a. Ew kitchen and you don't get the "if onlys"

Good luck.


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[johng]

I think 100k is a bit too much
20 -30k for expanded kitchen
The rest can come later.

[lungbing]

The other potential problem you have not mentioned is that once the neighbours see her selling food they will open the same sort of business facing her, or even next door.  But good luck to you both.

[cooked]

Coming home this morning I counted 20 establishments that can be called 'restaurants' over 8 Km.(and another 8 over the next 16 Km). In addition there were uncounted (because uncountable) stand up food stalls selling chicken and the like. These women open food places because food is virtually the only thing they have learnt that is of any use. (Apart from the obvious, which some of them also try to commercialise).

A friend's wife told me that she was making ฿600.- a day, which I thought was pretty good. Of course she was forgetting to deduct the costs of going to the market every morning, cooking gas, etc... probably she is making ฿300.- at maximum.

Why not just offer to improve the house in a way that can be used in her food stall startup rather than the other way around?

[starky]

I dont know everyone has different stories a lot of these businesses go under due to direct competition as you know i.e. opening up the same shop directly across the road. Having said that, if she is that good and has a solid regular client base she could do alright. My BIL as an example makes the duck noodle soup and others have tried to take him on, for no result, as his are the most popular. His joint is chock a block 6 days a week and though I am not there all the time its hard to get a seat. I would estimate @120 or more a day even at 30 baht a bowl minus operating  costs it is still a very good return compared to the average Thai wage. The only question really is she that good? And does it qualify as Thai aroi? You know how finicky a Thai can be when it comes to aroi. 

[freethinker]

If anyone's curious. The actual figure was 14000 of my money and 6k of her own savings.  The "restaurant" already up and running. 

[Formaleins]

On ‎09‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 9:00 PM, lungbing said:

The other potential problem you have not mentioned is that once the neighbours see her selling food they will open the same sort of business facing her, or even next door.  But good luck to you both.

Indeed! This happens everywhere, as soon as they see her busy, they will copy and ruin the business. Before long there will be 10 shops all selling the same stuff and gradually undercutting each other whilst dramatically cutting the portions to try to keep profitable.

The will be 10 shops all selling crap in a month and then they all go out of business!

[mogo51]

On 09/08/2017 at 8:03 PM, oldgent said:

you have to many concerns about this, firstly i dont think your wife will let the locals take advantage.

what you will be doing is improving her home which with a good builder will not cost a lot.

you can get second hand kitchen equipment which would start her off and if successful buy new.

the problem i had was a small coffee shop which just about covered the rent and supplies my lady

got despondent because she could not see profit, therefore lost interest and gave up.

that would be the only problem i see, apart from it costing you money but she is your wife. 

 

Just have plenty of money in your wallet for her to use.

[kwak250]

Good luck hope it all goes well

[oldcarguy]

just a question , if there are 100 customers on a nice sunny day , how many on a rainy day ?

or a slow month of rainy days ?

 

We all like to use the best day as "average" , but it gets your hopes up too much ,

 

you need to have better numbers to  figure out costs and profits ,

 

I would improve the house ,  buy used equipment  and a helper so she has some time for herself !

 

Good luck ........

 

 

[Jennyau]

Good on her wanting to work hard to improve your lives. It's hardly that much money when it is going towards doing up the house for you to live in as well. She's obviously doing well already if she's running out of food now, so it's not as if it's a new business start up. She's your wife so surely you must know what she's like. I wish her all the best.

[wildewillie89]

If the area near the 'restaurant' is surrounded by any government buildings it is very useful. Usually restaurants shout the officials a free lunch at the start, then the officials will come back most days. No risk of people not paying as usually they don't actually live in the immediate village, just work there. A lot of it I think is location. 

We sell our fruit from time to time, obviously the transaction is done through the wife and we get the same price as anyone else. Even selling our recycling the wife will get 1 or 2 baht extra (round up instead of them trying to round down). So would depend on your Mrs, rather than any 'farang' variable playing a part. 

[mfd101]

I see these problems from the family farm perspective here in Surin. My family are (mostly) softies so don't dare ask a reasonable price when selling their produce (bananas, fish, chooks, geese, ducks, mua).

 

And, worst of all in my view, they have no idea what anything they sell has cost them to produce (feed, medicines, labour ... ). Not the most basic accounting skills (despite my occasional pestering) and the notion of costing their own labour is an alien concept. "It's just what we do!"

 

When I point out that there's no point in doing it unless they're making a profit, and can prove it, they just shrug their shoulders. I've turned down the cash flow from my atm but doesn't seem to have helped so far ...

 

[yosib157]

I think people are interested as you have 13 followers.

 

It may be against the Forum's policy, so, if you can't post it on the main page, please email me the restaurant's  location.

[holy cow cm]

On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 7:36 PM, johng said:

I think 100k is a bit too much
20 -30k for expanded kitchen
The rest can come later.
 

Actually 100k is a bit on the low side. Guess you never built anything in Thailand.

[Ridge]

Neighbour sells pineapple, ice coffee, drinks & snacks. 1 son, no husband. Always happy and closes shop whenever she feels like it. Son rides a new one of those Honda msx. Comes out after 9 pm. Live's easy man. Ones you have a point of sale you can sell anything you want...

[hobobo]

Just ask her to prepare a proper business plan for the next, say, two years.

 

Alternatively give her an open cheque book and ATM cards for all your accounts.

 

Good luck!

[thailand49]

Here is my 2 cents from one of my chapters of my future book?  Been there done that but in no way I have all the answers because the one's you got already are pretty good.

First, from you post you aren't living there what concerns me outside of the business venture is the need to build you a separate room but that is off topic from your main situation and question. But it was you who mentioned "Thai wife".

This is what they normally do but unintentionally is lump other things together as if they are doing you a favor. It is true it is money you never will see again!  You might already know or sense it?  but you really aren't going to be able to say No since the amount isn't something that will stop you in the tracks.

You will find out as others have noted in general they have little or no idea what is coming or going out. Someone mentioned others might follow is because others can't get the backers for the start up. Whenever, I'm ask for advice from another foreigner in your situation jokingly of course as I noted, you don't really have a choice, is tell her to go to a bank and pitch her idea and if they will loan her the money I will do it.  The reason she and others haven't done it is because no one will ever lend them money so you are the bank the ATM period. It begins and end with money you hope some point they love you for yourself but money will be the incentive. 

They say Pattaya and Bangkok isn't part of Thailand so I can only guess what it would cost to get the building started. What I do know is whatever area she needs  for the restaurant or cooking make sure it is done right so you don't do it all over again. Times Thai want it so bad that they just want something build and then complaint it isn't right or too small. People have suggested equipment which might be commercial stainless steel, I've found from my research some of these places selling second hand stuff want as much as the new ones.  Personally she doesn't need commercial stuff. Look around see anyone other than a big restaurant using commercial. Stove top two burner is around 5,000 baht x2, two gas tanks 1700x2, do as smart Thai do, don't buy a commercial refrigerator unit, the electric bill will jump out of the roof, she never has had one has no idea. Start with a Thai cooler they range in different sizes and just buy Ice each day a large bag is like 25 baht, when she makes real money and stick with it then think about it. Cost for these boxes range from 2500-5000 depending on size if the business closes you can still use these around the houses. A commercial unit 2-3 door will cost you 40,000-45,000 baht.

Her being near a Government office is great, it is still about location, opening at the house is common, she has no skills sitting around and bored want to do something that is great that itself is worth the money given to her. But it doesn't stop there if not successful fast enough down the road another idea...

As for being a Farang, sure you will find ignorant people here or anywhere. My wife and son after years together know how things work. Sure there are some who won't buy from her, use our water machine or laundry because they think ignorant but that is their problem. Her food taste good, clean and cheap with large portions.

As in any business, keep your overhead low, they tend to think big to show off, you will have to try to teach her to meet a balance if you can? As a Expat, I and my neighbors know now I couldn't give a shit if they call the police but I'm respectful, so I just do the cleaning and stay out of her way.

Good luck... let me know if I miss anything but I'm sure I did.

Edited August 31, 2017 by thailand49

[timendres]

So much analysis... for what?

If you love her, and she is excited, and you can afford to toss away 100,000 baht - then give it to her.

She will love you for it, and you won't miss the money.

[mfd101]

23 minutes ago, timendres said:

So much analysis... for what?

If you love her, and she is excited, and you can afford to toss away 100,000 baht - then give it to her.

She will love you for it, and you won't miss the money.

Analysis paralysis. As a former bureaucrat, I know it well.

But you need both. Think then act. And accept the consequences, good or bad.

[Kadilo]

So much analysis... for what?
If you love her, and she is excited, and you can afford to toss away 100,000 baht - then give it to her.
She will love you for it, and you won't miss the money.

My thoughts too. Business plans, 2 year projections etc etc anyone think it was £100,000 not 100,000 baht.


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[superglue]

Why not rent for 1 year?

Then review. If it fails just walk away.

[ubonjoe]

20 hours ago, freethinker said:

If anyone's curious. The actual figure was 14000 of my money and 6k of her own savings.  The "restaurant" already up and running. 

It seems most people posting missed the above post by the OP.

[rickudon]

As said, 100,000 baht is really peanuts, i spent 300,000 on a new kitchen. plus a better kitchen will mean more choice and perhaps better meals for family. Plus a room to use yourself. As long as the business is already making a profit, the worst that will happen is you are no worse off but have an upgraded house (must be worth something). More profit would be a bonus.

[MyFriend You]

My take on this is 100,000 B is about half what you will need, especially if she needs to buy inventory - here are my points (I have 'assisted' several Thai girls in starting small businesses in their home towns)

• Fund 100K to upgrade your house, keep 100K in reserve
• Have her keep a list of what she spends on inventory, electricity, water, gas and another column for profit............make her keep it up to date - this way she can see if she is really making a profit - most small Thai business are hand to mouth, what they make today is what they use to live on, and buy inventory - so don't even know if they are winning or losing.  "Look Honey, I made 2,000 baht today, but the bills were 3500."
• I don't agree with 2d hand, shiesters here want as much as new most times, you can find non-commercial stuff cheap enough. 
• If she is a good cook already - convince her to provide something no one else is doing as a test to her regulars - I eat at a small place  on Jomtien Beach road, always packed, they do roast chicken, roast pork, Lap, Somtom, and a few seafood 'soups'  -  that's all - and it is always packed at lunch.  I go at 1130 to beat the crowd.
• ensure you have enough group seating, nothing frustrates customers more than having to wait to eat lunch, Thais don't mind sharing tables with each other even as strangers.
• I wish her luck, some 'mom & pop' places have turned into good entities, they have certainly made money off me  

[Tony125]

It amazes me how cheap some people can be. You say that part of the 100,000 baht = less than $3,000 USD will go to building a room for you in the house as well as a toilet and improving the kitchen whether you use it for the restaurant or not. You say you spent almost twice that amount on new TV and stuff for yourself but you don't think you should spend half that amount to improve the place you will be living or be giving your wife some pleasure

[johng]

It seems most people posting missed the above post by the OP.

I suggested 20-30 thousand and he said 20 thousand spent ....so where do i claim my prize ?