Renew health insurance or not?

[SWEYNE67]

I've had health insurance (Thai Insurance) here since I was 55 yrs, now I'm 62. Up to 60 yrs I paid 30,000 baht pa. Once I hit 60 it went up to 38k pa and will rise again when I'm 65 and 70. The policy ends when I'm 75. I will get 100k if I survive to 75 and my wife will get 100k if I die before then. I get health care cover of a few hundred thousand  each year. Haven't had to claim so far but I know the chances I will are going to increase. Not sure whether to keep paying or bank it and hope for the best. Don't need it at the moment for retirement visa. any help thanks

[tonray]

I would suggest a policy with much higher coverage limits that will undoubtedly cost you more than twice what you pay now. 

 

now you pay 38,000 for only a few hundred thousand of coverage and that does not seem like a good enough deal.  Better to pay maybe more for a few million of coverage. Dropping coverage at 62 is like gambling with your life savings.. Put it all on 12 red and spin. 

[Sheryl]

Agree 100% with the above but I would also suggest switching to a company that will cover you for life unless you have clear plans to move elsewhere as you age. There are many who will and the sooner you make the change the better because the longer you wait the more likely you are to develop a pre-existing condition which limits your ability to get a new policy.

 

If you want to be ultra save get the new policy and keep the old for one overlapping year just in case you develop something that had to have been pre-exisitng even though you may not have known of it. Depends on the insurer but getting covered in the first year of a policy for things that always take time to develop can be problematic.

 

I did exactly this as I recently switched insurer. Currently still have the old policy as well as the new, will drop the old after it's been a year with both (making sure to have a complete check up and attend to any elective procedures/treatments first). The easiest way to have smooth dealings with insurance claim is to have held the policy first for several years with no claims. And of course choose company carefully.

 

 

[Pdaz]

Which company would you recommend Sheryl ? BUPA, AIA or a Thai company. I let my UK BUPA lapse a few years back but see the merit in starting again now that I'm past 50 but not keen to pay premiums only to be refused cover at 70. Non smoker and no pre-existing conditions so far.

[Sheryl]

 BUPA international would likely be pretty  expensive, but you can check.

 

Most reasonably priced internationally issued policy (relatively speaking, it will not be cheap at your age anywhere) is Cigna Global, you can get quotes online playing around with different deductible (excess) and copay options as they significantly lower premiums.  Be warned if you give your phone number you will be inundated with dales calls. Enter a string of 0's or 9'sin its place to get around this.

 

Best value Thai issued policy IMO is MSH. But be warned that the regulatory framework for health insurance is much weaker in Thailand than in Europe and allows them to do things they would not be allowed to by most Euorpean regulators -- such as raise your rates very substantially on an individual basis because of prior claims, essentially pricing you out. I haven't heard any reports one way or the other abut MSH on this but legally, they can do so. I have heard of other Thai insurers doing this, and to an egregious extent.

 

 

 

[HampiK]

I would recommend CIGNA Global and AXA PPP.

They are more or less in a similar price range...I think (if remember correct) the AXA is little bit cheaper in higher ages.. but not that much. 

 

[JLCrab]

OK then so what do you make of this? --

Leading global healthcare benefits provider Aetna announced on Tuesday that it had acquired the Bupa Group’s Thai business, Bupa Thailand, for an undisclosed sum. ...

Aetna’s expertise, coupled with Bupa Thailand’s in-depth knowledge of the local healthcare system and culture, will ultimately offer customers in Thailand broader choice and continue to build on Bupa Thailand’s first-rate service, the company said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/Corporate/30321765

Edited August 21, 2017 by JLCrab

[SWEYNE67]

Many thanks for the helpful comments. Does anyone have any knowledge of costs for serious health care eg heart problems or cancer treatment at Thai Government hospitals?

[Sheryl]

Care at a government hospital can easily get to 1-2 million baht if for example multiple specialized surgeries and prolonged ICU care is required.

 

When looking at levels of insurance, note that sometimes it is per hospitalization  and sometimes per year. If per year, level needs to be higher as there could be more than one hospitalization in a year.

 

Actually the internationally issued  policies all have far higher levels of maximum cover than one would ever need in Thailand. The Thai issued policies on the other hand are often ridiculously low.  There are only a few that offer options with sufficient cover.

 

The expat insurance market in Thailand is poorly served in terms of availabilty of suitable products. There is an unmet need for lower levels of cover from the European insurers (i.e. $250K a year not $1 million on up) and  also unmet need for a lower cost policy limited to government hospitals, for those who are really strapped financially.

[HampiK]

@Sheryl

A lower 3.3 million baht ($ 100K) Insurance police is available from FWD, which seems good as well. They told will not increase when the insurance is used.. and also should give a life long renewal. The prices are OK... I only scare that the price will be almost too low for a real serious illness.

 

BTW.. the ($ 100K) 3.3 million baht coverage is yearly (annual). They also provide cheaper (lower) insurances as well.. also have annual and per incident polices...

[swissie]

A re-occuring topic. But at some point, some simple mathematics must sooner or later find entry and consideration as far as this ever returning Topic is concerned. Let's face the facts.

- A legitimate European/US based health insurance (in business for 100 years or more, often-times), is very much desirable. With relatively little "Fine-Print" and embedded in a legal framework. But it comes at a price, it's not cheap.
Especially, if a Farang (living in a low-cost environment in Thailand) realises that the annual premiums can easily amount to 1/3 of the disposable income.

On the oher hand:

- A Thai-Based health insurance may be far less expensive. But a "coverage of a "few hundred-thousand Bht", will not go far, if a serious health problem arises.

On top: I have presented my (former) Thai-Health-Insurance Policy including fine print to my brother, him selling Life/Health Policies for most of his adult life in Europe.

His comment (having read the fine print) and in a nutshell: "With this specific fine print, no insurance company wold be licensed to sell their product anywhere in Europe."

So, unless a Farang is calling a couple of millions his own (in hard currency, please), or can afford the premiums of a EU/US Insurer, the majority of Farangs are sitting between a rock and a hard place, as far as this is concerned. Hoping for a sudden and inexpensive death.

A harsh comment some will find, but unless Farang Residents can not subscribe to some "Expat-Health-Scheme", backed by "Home-Country Health Services", at a 10th of the cost that it would cost in their home-country, a good number of resident Farangs will stay lodged between a rock and a hard place.

Cheers.
 

 

[teddog]

I'm not beating this drum to death(again)   Couple of things to consider...illness?  get to hell out of it  India?...accident..same -same...or the proverbial in the woodpile, the thing that trumps all stroke/heart attack here at BTS ,or wherever.

 Have to do the numbers game here, .stroke? third die instantly(insurance wasted)  third recover, but out of it in reality (insurance wasted there too} ...heart attack?  preventative  medicine comes in here... India   Heart Echo, stress testing, executive health check up...anything and everything connected to wellbeing, that little lot in Thailand in the region of 50,000 baht , India? couple of thousand..    heart by-pass in India costing about the same as heart check up in Thailand..

 

...and of course not forgetting a fine needle aspiration,    there for that long existing cyst....yes 40,000 baht here in Thailand  179 baht there in India 

 

   Air fare?  flying season there soon,there and back,Calcutta for 3000 ish, now?5500 Baht      not forgetting  hearing aids     teef, everything and everything in first world environment (hospitals ,that is)

 

  Yes Sheryl in my wallet I carry a card  ..'Not to be treated at a private hospital'

[tonray]

6 minutes ago, teddog said:

I'm not beating this drum to death(again)   Couple of things to consider...illness?  get to hell out of it  India?...accident..same -same...or the proverbial in the woodpile, the thing that trumps all stroke/heart attack here at BTS ,or wherever.

 Have to do the numbers game here, .stroke? third die instantly(insurance wasted)  third recover, but out of it in reality (insurance wasted there too} ...heart attack?  preventative  medicine comes in here... India   Heart Echo, stress testing, executive health check up...anything and everything connected to wellbeing, that little lot in Thailand in the region of 50,000 baht , India? couple of thousand..    heart by-pass in India costing about the same as heart check up in Thailand..

 

...and of course not forgetting a fine needle aspiration,    there for that long existing cyst....yes 40,000 baht here in Thailand  179 baht there in India 

 

   Air fare?  flying season there soon,there and back,Calcutta for 3000 ish, now?5500 Baht      not forgetting  hearing aids     teef, everything and everything in first world environment (hospitals ,that is)

 

  Yes Sheryl in my wallet I carry a card  ..'Not to be treated at a private hospital'

 

"This has been a Public Service Announcement brought to you by the Indian Medical Tourism board"

[cooked]

I also use the Thai Health Insurance, the cheapest variant they have. https://www.thaihealth.co.th/2012/product_simply_eng.php

at the 15000 Baht premium, age 69. I view this as an emergency insurance only, I am lucky to get health treatment 'for free' as a Swiss citizen IF I manage to get back home. I would prefer however to end my days here and hope not to leave a huge bill behind me for the family to pay. Most people don't take this into account.

In my opinion it is important to have a local Thai rep that you know personally rather than using an anonymous broker that you never met, just my point of view. I will probably cease paying when the premiums go above 20 000, payable in January which is an expensive month as it is for me.

[teddog]

1 hour ago, teddog said:

I'm not beating this drum to death(again)   Couple of things to consider...illness?  get to hell out of it  India?...accident..same -same...or the proverbial in the woodpile, the thing that trumps all stroke/heart attack here at BTS ,or wherever.

 Have to do the numbers game here, .stroke? third die instantly(insurance wasted)  third recover, but out of it in reality (insurance wasted there too} ...heart attack?  preventative  medicine comes in here... India   Heart Echo, stress testing, executive health check up...anything and everything connected to wellbeing, that little lot in Thailand in the region of 50,000 baht , India? couple of thousand..    heart by-pass in India costing about the same as heart check up in Thailand..

 

...and of course not forgetting a fine needle aspiration,    there for that long existing cyst....yes 40,000 baht here in Thailand  179 baht there in India 

 

   Air fare?  flying season there soon,there and back,Calcutta for 3000 ish, now?5500 Baht      not forgetting  hearing aids     teef, everything and everything in first world environment (hospitals ,that is)

 

  Yes Sheryl in my wallet I carry a card  ..'Not to be treated at a private hospital'

...and the one thing that trumps all,yes it does ,medivac, no insurance ,never will have,but that alone provided by past employment is worth a kings ransom,nobody but nobody will have that included on their insurance,no matter how much they pay,that is worth more to me , especially here in Thailand than any amount of worthless medical insurance, and even if I did not have that,need to know the airlines that would be sympathetic to stretcher,maimed passenger and how much a nominated member of flight crew would be charging for accompanied member

[scubascuba3]

 
"This has been a Public Service Announcement brought to you by the Indian Medical Tourism board"

I like that teddog is offering an alternative to consider.

It would be a killer if you paid insurance premiums for years and then they said you can't claim just when you need it as it isn't covered or pre existing or some get out, and that is always on your mind with insurance.

[teddog]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I like that teddog is offering an alternative to consider.

It would be a killer if you paid insurance premiums for years and then they said you can't claim just when you need it as it isn't covered or pre existing or some get out, and that is always on your mind with insurance.

I would not trust my own damned shadow in this country, truthfully I hate it, should be on antis for depression, but I have my dogs,Brexit is a killer for Spain,and not owning anything is truly a bonus, renting is so damned cheap now  30% cheaper to rent,give me nervous breakdown to see house prices plummeting

[al007]

Lets be realistic, insurance is a mugs game, and always has been, I will debate that with anyone, all insurance companies make money even my friend Warren will tell you that and his biggest holding is insurance

 

however you need a plan

 

If you can not find 1.0M to 2.0 m plus you should not be here, does dot mean go home but be aware of the risks and if it goes the wrong way do not complain

 

there are many females on TV who say you must have insurance, if that is that is their  view thats ok but not the only solution, I also ask have they really lived life, they are amybe bitter and twisted females, maybe not they are entitled to their views

 

Pay the premium have no money to enjoy crass stupidity

 

I have two lots of cancer

 

I have spent so far 400,000 in one year not big sums

 

I am consciously not going back to the UK, I can find if necessary another 2.0m plus

 

Many die without going to hospital if you are happy here stay enjoy yourselves, do not be scared by the doom and gloom merchants it may never happen

 

This comes from a man who today started a thread on palliative care here in thailand TODAY

 

We do not know what tomorrow might bring, thank you God I am a happy man

[Sheryl]

Posts of personal quarrel between 2 members have been removed.

 

If you want to argue, do it by PM

 

If one of you doesn't want to then just block the other - there is a block function in PMs for a reason.

 

Just don't post your quarrels here, , no one else wants to read it.

[JAS21]

When we lived in the UK we had company PPP. even though I left for early retirement years before. It covered basically everything.  On leaving the UK PPP International said we could stay with them and we opted for reduced cover ... basically covered MRI's CT Scans and anything if we stayed in hospital. The fees also included International Travel Insurance ... except USA.

 

We paid

2008   £3668

2009   £4063

2010   £4340

2011   £5336

2012   £6042

2013   £6776

2014   £7986

 

for 2015, if I recall correctly they wanted approx £8800. at that time our ages were 69 and 59.

 

I have to admit that some years we were in profit but we did use BNH and Bangkok Hospitals.

 

We realised there would come a time when we just couldn't afford the premiums.  So we changed to government Hospitals CCIT, Princess Chulabhon Research institute and the big Stroke/Brain Hospital in Bangkok and decided to self insure. 

 

So far we have been very fortunate with what we have had to spend. Suppose that we are fortunate to be able to fund ourselves ....

 

So if you have insurance just remember the price rockets when you age .... Some of the government hospitals are okay but you have to wait unless it's an emergency.There are other non-government hospitals that are not too expensive either.

[al007]

1 hour ago, JAS21 said:

When we lived in the UK we had company PPP. even though I left for early retirement years before. It covered basically everything.  On leaving the UK PPP International said we could stay with them and we opted for reduced cover ... basically covered MRI's CT Scans and anything if we stayed in hospital. The fees also included International Travel Insurance ... except USA.

 

We paid

2008   £3668

2009   £4063

2010   £4340

2011   £5336

2012   £6042

2013   £6776

2014   £7986

 

for 2015, if I recall correctly they wanted approx £8800. at that time our ages were 69 and 59.

 

I have to admit that some years we were in profit but we did use BNH and Bangkok Hospitals.

 

We realised there would come a time when we just couldn't afford the premiums.  So we changed to government Hospitals CCIT, Princess Chulabhon Research institute and the big Stroke/Brain Hospital in Bangkok and decided to self insure. 

 

So far we have been very fortunate with what we have had to spend. Suppose that we are fortunate to be able to fund ourselves ....

 

So if you have insurance just remember the price rockets when you age .... Some of the government hospitals are okay but you have to wait unless it's an emergency.There are other non-government hospitals that are not too expensive either.

God bless and so far so good, I am also in the same group of self insured

 

We need to look at our overall financial plan and remember doctors and insurance company representatives are not qualified to give us advice on financial matters and insurance is one of those

 

Insurance companies generally all make money, and very big money

 

Many people die without big medical costs

 

My suggestion is do a simple plan and evaluate the risks

 

look at what you can afford

 

look at what are the options if you run out of money

 

if you are not happy and from the UK go back home

 

Or take the chance and enjoy what you came here for

 

Be lucky and stay happy. it may just never happen

 

It is very easy I can show many many people why they should not be here, BUT that is not the answer

 

 

[al007]

I have just written about risk assessment on another thread, and ways I have mittigated some of the costs, this maybe very relevant to this thread on health insurance

 

I also did not mention one hospital also substantially helped with costs doe to some of their oversights