What to do when an Ex Pat dies in Thailand.

[ResandePohm]

On 9/12/2017 at 7:26 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

Great advice and something for everyone to think about - we should all do the right thing and make arrangements - we are not citizens here and it is very hard for the GF/wife/family when it happens.

 

There are a lot of Expats who have Thai wife/GF and who pass away without having made any preparations. That you were able and willing to help Nong is great - you did a very good thing.  

 

I remember NancyL talking about what she had done many times in this situation in CM, and how hard it is on the Thai GF/wife. At the very least put something in writing and get it witnessed by someone 'official' (Lawyer, Embassy, Thai Govt/Police, etc.).

 

I would also recommend making about 10 copies of the death certificate as you will need these to inform people and institutions i.e.

Home country Tax Authorities and Pensions Department should the deceased be getting a pension from home country. 

Ensure that the wife receives a pension from the deceased after his death should this be applicable

To gain access to the deceased bank accounts both in here and home country.

Also required to gain access to any investments the deceased might have.

 

To make this all work smoothly i strongly recommend that you make a will and clearly appoint executors to deal with these matters.

[kokopelli]

On 10/8/2017 at 6:43 PM, Joinaman said:

Not sure if my English friend who has lived here for a good few years is talking rubbish, but
he says that often when the police arrive at the house, one of the first things they demand is the passport and bank books, and sometimes any cash and gold assets.

Is this possible, or is he going senile ? 

I have heard something similar from a trusted source regarding money. So best to be prepared for  that . 

[wwest5829]

On 9/17/2017 at 7:31 AM, NancyL said:

Wow, that's cold.  The certificate of the death of an American abroad is one of the free services of the U.S. Embassy/Consulate and they give you multiple "original" copies to use in closing bank accounts, claiming life insurance, etc.  Usually you have to send a certified copy, i.e. "original" death certificate in order to claim funds due to a survivor or heir.

Sometimes we get it right. Same as the searing of monthly income statement for my Retirement Visa extension (although that costs me $50 ),.

[David Martin]

On 13/09/2017 at 9:24 PM, Sheryl said:

Thank you for this, I am going to pin the topic.

 

Would like to add:

 

1 - Some Embassies have a system whereby their nationals in Thailand can register their whereabouts and emergency contact info. If your Embassy has this system, avail of it. That way they have ready access to info on whom to contact.

 

2 - If you have any assets in your home country, a certificate from your Embassy will be needed to confirm your death (similiar to a death certificate, though the actual death certificate will be the Thai one. The Thai death certificate has to be submitted to the Embassy and they will issue a document called something like "Notification of Death Abroad" which can then be used  with home country banks etc.

 

3 - This firm specializes in expat funeral/cremation etc. Their prices are reasonable and they can do anything form a no frills cremation/burial to a full funeral or repatriation of remains - whatever is desired. I have dealt with them and there was no sales pitch or pressure to go with anything more elaborate than what the relatives wanted (which in the case I dealt with was no funeral,  basic cremation and the ashes in a wooden urn).  They will also take care of the death certificate, getting the letter form the Embassy, etc.

 

https://www.facebook.com/allisonmonkhousethailand/

 

They offer prepaid funeral plans so it is possible to set everything up and pay for it in advance (does not have to include a funeral, could be just burial or cremation - whatever.)

 

I concur with above. I am a client of Allison Monkhouse and along with my attorney in Jomtien will administer my departure to the Commando Gunner Regroup upstairs. Everything already paid for although  I do not expect to make the trip just  yet.

 

[JohnC]

Previous poster mentioned he did not use Facebook therefore he could not contact AllisonMonkhouse, they have a website and on request they will e mail you their price list plus a useful power of attorney form. I have found them very efficient. 

http://www.monkhouse.com.au/

[Oxx]

21 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Previous poster mentioned he did not use Facebook therefore he could not contact AllisonMonkhouse, they have a website and on request they will e mail you their price list plus a useful power of attorney form. I have found them very efficient. 

http://www.monkhouse.com.au/

 

Is it clear that they still operate in Thailand? The Australian site makes no mention that I could see of Thai people, and the Facebook page states that what I presume is their local representative has quite.

[nervona81732]

Nong 38, this is a great topic. KUDOS for bring this to others attention. I for one have already taken care of all details and doing my will for the private sector this weekend ( have some help ) and my VA situation. This most often ends up to be a real mess ,  If you care about your wife or GF this needs to be taken care of sooner rather than later. There will be some that don't care. My wife deserves that respect and then again some don't give a rip.

[1FinickyOne]

On September 15, 2560 BE at 8:32 PM, NancyL said:

Here is a very good document developed by Chiang Mai Community Church about Funeral Assistance for Foreigners.  While some of the advice is Chiang Mai-specific, much of it isn't: http://www.lannacarenet.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/2016Funeral-AssistanceSEP2016.docx.html

 

One way to ensure that your Thai (unmarried) partner has the ability to claim your body and make final arrangements on your behalf without waiting for your embassy to track down your next-of-kin (who may not exist) is to have a Thai Final Will in place with your wishes clearly spelled out.  

 

If you wish to overlook next-of-kin, then please mention that in the Thai Final Will.  I've been executor for an expat where she deliberately "overlooked" her adult children in the U.S. but because their existence wasn't mentioned in her Final Will, settlement of the estate was delayed until I secured statements from them that they were OK with being "overlooked".  Fortunately, they were very sympathetic since they hadn't seen the woman who gave birth to them but didn't raise them for 40 years (long story),  but if they'd chosen to "play hard ball", her entire modest estate would have been eaten up in legal fees in Thai courts.

Hi Nancy - I have been wondering about all of this - and I thank the OP for raising the topic. 

 

If I understand this correctly, it is possible to bypass any connection w/family members in USA if written into a Will here. I also have nothing more than a village wedding and I do have a brother in USA who usually is not reliable or very interested in being bothered with paperwork. I do have a Will in USA which leaves everything to my Thai "wife" including my assets in USA... 

 

Is there a lawyer that you would recommend for this in CM.? Thank you. 

[NancyL]

Yes, it's a good idea to mention in your Final Will that you are deliberately overlooking blood relatives if you want to leave your estate to someone who isn't a relative or a legal wife, with the marriage registered at the amphur office.  It doesn't have to be a mean statement, and a lawyer will help you to draft such a statement properly.  

 

In Chiang Mai, I'd recommend Lanna Lawyers.  They have an American and Aussie lawyer on staff who work with their Thai lawyers, so communication isn't a problem.  They have a "special package" where they offer a set price for a Final Will, Power of Attorney and Advance Directive (Living Will).  These are three important documents that everyone should have.

[bazza73]

Does anyone on this thread know the situation with an Australian expat?

I have Thai and Australian wills which both state all assets in Thailand go to my Thai GF, and all assets in Australia go to my son and sister. Don't know what the story is with a death certificate, though.

[CMBob]

Would add that the US Consulate here in CM assured me a few years back that a valid Thai Will (naming a Thai partner as executor and having other relevant instructions) will be honored by the Consulate (i.e., it'll stop the hassle and delay of the Consulate finding their defined "next of kin" and having to get signed documents from that next of kin).

 

 

[nong38]

1 hour ago, bazza73 said:

Does anyone on this thread know the situation with an Australian expat?

I have Thai and Australian wills which both state all assets in Thailand go to my Thai GF, and all assets in Australia go to my son and sister. Don't know what the story is with a death certificate, though.

I have 2 wills, one for the UK and one for here in Thailand. The Thai will basically states that whats in Thailand stays in Thailand and does not affect the UK will. The UK will says that whats in the UK stays in the UK and does affect the Thai will. All partys understand and accept that.

My Thai will has been traslated into Thai so that it will be easier to action at some time in the future.

[nong38]

12 minutes ago, CMBob said:

Would add that the US Consulate here in CM assured me a few years back that a valid Thai Will (naming a Thai partner as executor and having other relevant instructions) will be honored by the Consulate (i.e., it'll stop the hassle and delay of the Consulate finding their defined "next of kin" and having to get signed documents from that next of kin).

 

 

Your problem here might be if your Thai partner is legally married to you or not. In my first post there was no legal marriage and she was described as a carer/giver and the Embassy in Bangkok would only deal with next of kin in the USA.

[CMBob]

13 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Your problem here might be if your Thai partner is legally married to you or not. In my first post there was no legal marriage and she was described as a carer/giver and the Embassy in Bangkok would only deal with next of kin in the USA.

No problem.....my comments relate to whether you are or are not married (legally or otherwise) to your Thai partner.  The Consulate assured me that my named Thai executor would have the power to sign everything they need to get signed and they would issue the form to release my body.

[JohnC]

ALLISON Monkhouse have a local website @ https://www.thai888.com/

they have an office & staff in Pattaya, the person mentioned on the Facebook page is an ex member of staff who left , no effect on the company. I didn't realise they had a separate web address when I posted the link, sorry. 

[jacko45k]

On 9/17/2017 at 5:09 PM, nong38 said:

It occured to me today that the most likely scenario has not been aired as yet so I will now.

After having a good feed and a few beve's one retires to bed happy, in the morning though things are different, when your airways are checked, pulse is not in action and the heart is not moving, your Thai lady might be phoning the police, the ex pat has died in his sleep.

I assume the police would call a doctor who would produce a death certificate and allow the body to be taken directly to the Temple with the help of a Funeral Director come undertaker.

This I am sure would be the preferred end for most of us and would seem to be fairly easy to carry out final rights for any Thai partner, any input or thoughts would be welcome.

I wouldn't assume anything. The body would be taken to a hospital where a post mortem needs to be performed. Then comes the difficult steps of getting the body released, where the embassy needs to be involved. There is some going back and forth with various paperwork, between police and hospital before the body can go to a temple.  Refer to OP as I bow to that experince, mine was more sidelined as Thais can get things done better. Simple things like getting the numbers wrong on a bit of paper, which often happens, can be a set-back.

[steven100]

20 hours ago, Trut1974 said:

I think they would have to contact the Expat's nearest of kin and tell them about it. If the Expat has no wife/husband, the body would be brought back to his original country.

but not if you have a will in Thai & English and you indicate that you do not require your next of kin to be any part of your will.  And that your Thai partner is executor. And you further state that you do not require your body to be taken back to your home country ....  ?

correct  ... ??

[rickudon]

Death is something we do not prepare for. My wife's sister was married to a US born citizen who also had UK citizenship. Fortunately she was legally married. Unfortunately he died in the UK while undergoing medical treatment and was temporarily staying with his ex-wife at the time. After his death, the ex-wife stole all his documents/bank details he had with him, to prevent her from getting any inheritance, leaving his thai wife with nothing but memories.

 

On her return to Thailand I have had to help  try and reconstruct all the information we needed from a few remaining documents left behind and anecdotal information. There was no will, we didn't know for sure if he had other bank accounts other than his joint account, and had no information about his US relatives. At the time of death he had little cash and left no pension that  his wife could inherit. It has been a nightmare, still ongoing.

[jayceenik]

I'm a retired Senior Belgian citizen living in LOS with TGF.

I just wrote and printed on my PC a document in three languages (French-English-Thai) stating that I had no next-of-kin or family to notify and expect instructions from for my body disposal and that I designated my live-in TGF as the one to dispose freely of my body for cremation.

I had that document signature-certified (800b) at the BKK Belgian Consulate where I'm registered.

In fact they seemed happy with my document as it will simplify things for them the day they're notified that one of their citizens has trespassed in LOS (copy of it put in my Belgian Consulate registration file).

 

I already had designated my TGF as the one to take care of my body in my Thai Last Will but better have a separate document to show to the hospital/doctor/police at my death. 

[nong38]

This topic has gone a long way since I started it from a recent experience, a bit like throwing a stone into water and see how far the ripples go.

It reminds us of all things we need to prepare for when our time is up so its not just dealing with the death itself that we need to leave information about so a few things that you might think about which have recently been mentioned.

Do make sure you make a will.

Do make sure you make a list of who needs to informed about your death.

Do make a list of your assets and where to find them.

Do think about your possessions and where you like them to end up.

All the above could/should be in your will, I just did separate papers to make it easier and I am sure there are other things as well.

Since I kicked this off I have been pleased with the responses and information that has come forward. Everyone has an individual case and you need to sift through and see what best applies to yours.

 

So far, thanks for all your input, if something has been missed dont be shy.

[Oxx]

I'm a little bit unclear based upon some of the previous postings.  Is it possible to include a clause in one's will stating that a nominated individual in Thailand can take custody of my body, so bypassing the need to contact a living relative in my home country?

 

And what happens if there is no living relative (which is probably what will happen to me within the next few years).

[nong38]

6 hours ago, Oxx said:

I'm a little bit unclear based upon some of the previous postings.  Is it possible to include a clause in one's will stating that a nominated individual in Thailand can take custody of my body, so bypassing the need to contact a living relative in my home country?

 

And what happens if there is no living relative (which is probably what will happen to me within the next few years).

I think this is a legal question which a lawyer would need to clarify, in my original post the US Embassy would only take official notice from next of kin, but I am not aware of what the will situation was which is why it is really important to try and tie up all the loose ends before we go, try and think of everything that could or might happen and get them covered.

Most people will say they will do it soon and then soon never arrives, get on the case now and deal with it then you dont have to worry later.

My US chum did not think anything was the matter one day, planning a new holiday and then bang into hospital and dead 2 weeks later and that 2 weeks was to late, assume nothing at our time of life.

 

Some posters have suggested that a clause could be put into the will giving the partner here control of the affairs of the body and maybe executor of the will, it could also be contested by the next of kin/family in the home country so that it something that really needs to be explored here and with the people back home so that things go smoothly, too many times have I heard about family squabbles over the death and contents of the will.

[charliebadenhop]

In many Western countries a person's bank accounts all get blocked within about 24-48 hours after they pass away, since a system is in place to monitor all of this.

 

My bank here said that such a system does not yet exist here.

 

So, if one dies, and the police or other people come, is it likely that the bank gets noticed and bank accounts blocked/frozen?

 

I am thinking this will not happen, but not at all sure.

 

 

[nong38]

4 hours ago, charliebadenhop said:

In many Western countries a person's bank accounts all get blocked within about 24-48 hours after they pass away, since a system is in place to monitor all of this.

 

My bank here said that such a system does not yet exist here.

 

So, if one dies, and the police or other people come, is it likely that the bank gets noticed and bank accounts blocked/frozen?

 

I am thinking this will not happen, but not at all sure.

 

 

When I made out my Thai will here I asked the lawyer whats happens in respect of the bank/banks accounts, the lawyer told me he would go to the bank with the necceassry paperwork and deal with it. It must happen here but you/we dont think about it, lawyers do so I think I just have to leave to them to provide the Death Certificate and the will and have a chat with the Bank manager.

I only use bank here to make life simpler.

Next time I go to the bank I will ask the question and let you know.

 

A question I did ask in the bank last time was this.

"If I am in hospital and I need money to pay for hospital services how do I do it if I cannot get into the Bank?"

Answer " You can write a letter of authority for your wife/g/f, or, she can collect a withdrawal slip you can sign it and she can withdraw or we will come to the hospital get you to sign the withdrawal and we will bring the money to you."

The last part depends on how much you trust the bank.

[NancyL]

1 hour ago, nong38 said:

When I made out my Thai will here I asked the lawyer whats happens in respect of the bank/banks accounts, the lawyer told me he would go to the bank with the necceassry paperwork and deal with it. It must happen here but you/we dont think about it, lawyers do so I think I just have to leave to them to provide the Death Certificate and the will and have a chat with the Bank manager.

I only use bank here to make life simpler.

Next time I go to the bank I will ask the question and let you know.

 

A question I did ask in the bank last time was this.

"If I am in hospital and I need money to pay for hospital services how do I do it if I cannot get into the Bank?"

Answer " You can write a letter of authority for your wife/g/f, or, she can collect a withdrawal slip you can sign it and she can withdraw or we will come to the hospital get you to sign the withdrawal and we will bring the money to you."

The last part depends on how much you trust the bank.

This one reason to have your "home branch" be a branch that truly is near your home, i.e. the branch where you do most of your banking activity.  And don't just do everything via ATM or online.  Make it a point to show your face in the branch, get to know the staff, etc.  That way, they are much more likely to cooperate with your family, friends or gf if you are incapacitated and they request that a bank rep come to the hospital to help you take care of banking business.  If you opened your account at a branch that is no longer convenient, then close it (or let it go to a near-zero balance) and open accounts at the branch where you actually do business.

 

But, the possible downside of making sure that the staff in "your" branch bank gets to know you is that they are very likely to get word when you die via the jungle internet and freeze your accounts before they are officially notified.  There is no "patient privacy" here and the the death of a foreigner is something widely discuss by hospital staff, police, etc, in the community.  This isn't an altogether bad thing, but if your idea of taking care of your wife/gf after your death is to tell her to take your ATM card and clean out your account without telling anyone you've died, she may find this isn't possible.  A Final Will is the best way to take care of her.

[charliebadenhop]

My line of thinking about the bank account once you pass away....

I would most prefer that my Japanese daughter takes all of the money out of my account, as soon as possible, rather than needing an intermediary.

 

So, IF the police or other authority is not informing the bank of my death.... my daughter who is a co-signer on my account, should have little trouble clearing out my account.

 

Again, my bank said this is usually easy to do, but hoping to get someone with specific knowledge here.

 

 

[NancyL]

2 minutes ago, charliebadenhop said:

My line of thinking about the bank account once you pass away....

I would most prefer that my Japanese daughter takes all of the money out of my account, as soon as possible, rather than needing an intermediary.

 

So, IF the police or other authority is not informing the bank of my death.... my daughter who is a co-signer on my account, should have little trouble clearing out my account.

 

Again, my bank said this is usually easy to do, but hoping to get someone with specific knowledge here.

 

 

If it is a Thai bank, then a joint account will frozen upon your death until your estate is probated.  A "cosigner" is not is not assumed to be the co-owner of the funds.  If your daughter withdraws funds after your death, she could get into trouble, especially if challenged by other heirs.  If someone at your bank told you that your daughter could continue to use a joint account after your death, then you were told wrong.  It probably was a misunderstanding due to language problems.

 

How many times do people have to be told that having a Final Will is the best way to ensure that your wishes are carried out?

[CMBob]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

If it is a Thai bank, then a joint account will frozen upon your death until your estate is probated.  

You're correct....if and when the Thai bank is informed of the death; until that time, you're wrong.

And, although I know you disagree with me, if the person taking out the funds (whether a partner with an ATM number or a joint holder of the account) is the sole heir to those funds (either by operation of Thai law or as named in a Thai Will), then I wouldn't worry about it at all that the post-death withdrawals might be technically "illegal" as that sole heir is the only person who can complain about it.

Edited October 14, 2017 by CMBob

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, CMBob said:

You're correct....if and when the Thai bank is informed of the death; until that time, you're wrong.

And, although I know you disagree with me, if the person taking out the funds (whether a partner with an ATM number or a joint holder of the account) is the sole heir to those funds (either by operation of Thai law or as named in a Thai Will), then I wouldn't worry about it at all that the post-death withdrawals might be technically "illegal" as that sole heir is the only person who can complain about it.

 

 

All mandates cease eases upon death (not notification of it).

 

A Bank is protected until advice is received, but anyone accessing funds after death is acting fraudulently.

 

However, I agree that the other  party inherits by succession and in practical terms no one is going to do anything about it.

[charliebadenhop]

So if someone has signing power on an account they are technically breaking the law if they take out any funds after the other party to the account dies?

 

Do you know of anywhere I can read about this?

 

When I asked my banker she said "mai pen rai"