TonyClifton Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 While I figure nothing here is simple, we both agree that I should have 100 percent parental rights to our son so I can get him both passports renewed (USA and Thailand) without having to have her sign permission. We are ending our marriage and she is leaving. How can this be done easily? What do we need to get it done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishken Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I can't help with your request but well done on manning up to take full control of you son life. Give him a proper upbringing instead of a village life with the Granny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyClifton Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, irishken said: I can't help with your request but well done on manning up to take full control of you son life. Give him a proper upbringing instead of a village life with the Granny. My son and I spent 8 years in America when things fell through 9 years ago. He could never be a village anything. I have always taken care of him from day one. This is why she is ok with giving up parental rights. She never bonded with him, not then and not now. The only Thai he speaks is what he is learning in his school now and that is very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Tony, as described by Ubonjoe in the other topic, the first step is to get a lawyer to draw up a divorce agreement, which must include who will have custody of the child and a statement that the mother is giving up her parental rights to the child. This has to be written in Thai and English and form part of the divorce to be registered at the Amphur, it will be signed by the head there, witnesses, yourself and your wife. Once this is lodged with the Amphur and a divorce certificate issued, then it becomes legally binding. If the divorce is not amicable, then the courts will decide on custody of the child based on the facts presented to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyClifton Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Mattd said: Tony, as described by Ubonjoe in the other topic, the first step is to get a lawyer to draw up a divorce agreement, which must include who will have custody of the child and a statement that the mother is giving up her parental rights to the child. This has to be written in Thai and English and form part of the divorce to be registered at the Amphur, it will be signed by the head there, witnesses, yourself and your wife. Once this is lodged with the Amphur and a divorce certificate issued, then it becomes legally binding. If the divorce is not amicable, then the courts will decide on custody of the child based on the facts presented to them. I don't see why it has to be drafted by a lawyer. Perhaps you can explain to me why if that is a requirement. My friend is both Thai and American and he can do the Thai agreement which I will then have officially translated for the American Embassy. The divorce is amicable, it is just a natural end to what amounts to irreconcilable differences. The official translation will be necessary to be translated into English for me to renew my son's passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Just now, TonyClifton said: I don't see why it has to be drafted by a lawyer. Perhaps you can explain to me why if that is a requirement. My friend is both Thai and American and he can do the Thai agreement which I will then have officially translated for the American Embassy. The divorce is amicable, it is just a natural end to what amounts to irreconcilable differences. So long as the agreement is written in the languages that you both fully understand, one being Thai, then I apologise, ii is not an absolute requirement to use a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyClifton Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 Just now, Mattd said: So long as the agreement is written in the languages that you both fully understand, one being Thai, then I apologise, ii is not an absolute requirement to use a lawyer. It seems simple to me. I agree to 100 percent custody of my son and my wife agrees to give me sole custody as well as 100 percent parental rights, meaning she will give up hers. The import of this becomes apparent when I need to renew passports both Thai and USA. I would think it could be written simply as it isn't at all complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyClifton Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 That brings up another question, is custody different from parental rights or does it equate to the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, TonyClifton said: It seems simple to me. I agree to 100 percent custody of my son and my wife agrees to give me sole custody as well as 100 percent parental rights, meaning she will give up hers. The import of this becomes apparent when I need to renew passports both Thai and USA. I would think it could be written simply as it isn't at all complicated. Great to hear about such devotion to your child and I wish you great happiness. My only comment is to proceed quickly just in case other relatives might try to get into the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabanlit Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 In my paperwork it was called "parental control" - not rights, and definitely not custody. It may not be essential to be done by a lawyer, but if push ever comes to shove, then a properly drawn up, executed and witnessed document might just win the day over a self written version. It was all registered and lodged at the amphur on divorce day and the lawyer also retains a copy, so I'm fairly relaxed should anything 'nasty' crop up in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyClifton Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, cabanlit said: In my paperwork it was called "parental control" - not rights, and definitely not custody. It may not be essential to be done by a lawyer, but if push ever comes to shove, then a properly drawn up, executed and witnessed document might just win the day over a self written version. It was all registered and lodged at the amphur on divorce day and the lawyer also retains a copy, so I'm fairly relaxed should anything 'nasty' crop up in the future. I am 100 concerned with getting my son a new Thai and USA passport. He currently has 2 years on the USA and 4 on the Thai. Beyond that, it is only words on a paper. My wife is bipolar. She will surely go off her meds when she leaves. Her involvement with our son has been not good since we returned from the USA. I don't want to be marooned here due to not being able to get passports for my son or her cooperation to get them in the future. No one is being acrimonious or malicious, I have just come to the decision that after much time, her loyalty will never be to me or our son, it will always be to the horrible human being she calls her mother. And just in case anyone thinks I'm being harsh, if you lived here during the most recent coup, you may remember the Boys in Brown going to Nong Khai with the news crew in tow to show just how tough on the law they were. They picked out a brothel with underage Lao girls and broadcast it on national TV. My wife found out it was her family "up there" when she also got to see it on the news. She was living and working in Bangkok with a real job as an office manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 hours ago, TonyClifton said: That brings up another question, is custody different from parental rights or does it equate to the same thing? No, but there is a difference in meaning legally and in daily conversation. legally you have parental rights if you are the legal parent of a child and a judge didn't take those rights away. Parental rights otherwise continue to stay, even if the child is an adult. (Think about inheritance, support for an elderly parent or a young adult that is studying). Custody means more that you act as the legal parent, take the case when a minor becomes an orphan and someone is awarded custody over the child. He is than the legal care taker, but his role ends when the child becomes an adult. In everyday conversation the two are often mixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 hours ago, TonyClifton said: I don't see why it has to be drafted by a lawyer. Perhaps you can explain to me why if that is a requirement. My friend is both Thai and American and he can do the Thai agreement which I will then have officially translated for the American Embassy. The divorce is amicable, it is just a natural end to what amounts to irreconcilable differences. The official translation will be necessary to be translated into English for me to renew my son's passport. a lawyer is not needed but often advisable, to be sure that one makes the right agreement. One can for instance agree that one parent has custody, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that parent has sole parental rights. Think about decisions about where the child stays or where the child goes to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyClifton Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 Just now, Preacher said: a lawyer is not needed but often advisable, to be sure that one makes the right agreement. One can for instance agree that one parent has custody, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that parent has sole parental rights. Think about decisions about where the child stays or where the child goes to school. As I stated earlier, this is not acrimonious or out of control. It's just what it is and we both realize there is no moving forward. She wants to go and I'm ok with that. She's not happy and neither am I. If she decided to be a mother to her son, I might put up with it with some modifications but she doesn't want to do that. My priority has always been everyone else. My priority for my son won't change, but it's time for me now. My time here (on Earth) is fleeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayinbkk Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I would advise using the services of a lawyer to avoid any unforeseen problems. Normally, a parent cannot simply give up parental rights, as they are tied up with the legal responsibilities a person has as a parent. The normal procedure, as I understand it, would require one parent to sue the other. This can be amicably agreed between them, but still has to go through process. It can presumably be done as part of the divorce. The court may require a report from social services who would, if relevant, include any agreed statement by one of the spouses that they agree for x, y and z reasons to give up parental rights. Otherwise, the Family Court decides. The process sounds complicated but as long as the spouse agrees, it is in fact fairly straight forward. It is obviously something very important to you and which you would not want to see go off the rails. Thus my advice to work with a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstevens Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 10 hours ago, TonyClifton said: I don't see why it has to be drafted by a lawyer. Perhaps you can explain to me why if that is a requirement. The reason to have a lawyer draft this is so that the wording conveys exactly what you and your wife agree to, the language is tight and most importantly, that there are no ambiguities which could allow it to be challenged at a later date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny202 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 12 hours ago, TonyClifton said: I don't see why it has to be drafted by a lawyer. Perhaps you can explain to me why if that is a requirement. My friend is both Thai and American and he can do the Thai agreement which I will then have officially translated for the American Embassy. The divorce is amicable, it is just a natural end to what amounts to irreconcilable differences. The official translation will be necessary to be translated into English for me to renew my son's passport. I would definitely use a lawyer and she should have an independent lawyer too. In most countries, and I am sure here too.... unless her statement agreeing to give you full custody is stamped by her lawyer saying that she has been explained her rights and the legal implications of what she is doing, the document can be nullified later. She simply says you bullied her into it or she didn't understand what she was doing. I'm going through a similar situation.... It may be that she doesn't want the child now...but should it be financially to her benefit in the future she may try. For eg you and your child move back to farangland. Say Australia. She meets a new guy in the future and also moves to Australia. All of a sudden her new friends are telling her the benefits she can receive from the government and you to support the child. It happened to one of the members here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailand49 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 14 hours ago, TonyClifton said: I don't see why it has to be drafted by a lawyer. Perhaps you can explain to me why if that is a requirement. My friend is both Thai and American and he can do the Thai agreement which I will then have officially translated for the American Embassy. The divorce is amicable, it is just a natural end to what amounts to irreconcilable differences. The official translation will be necessary to be translated into English for me to renew my son's passport. Don't take it for granted, this is really sound advice, it sounds like you want to save a few baht? You might not have a problem in the U.S. but I don't know how many times here in Thailand, although I have all the legal paperwork for my adopted son be ask for the original paperwork. Each time I applied for a renew passport it is like doing it for the first time, every worker has a different view on how it works. I keep everything last time (passport) they wanted the death certificate for his father and the original adoption papers instead of copy. Here they don't know the right hand from the left. In the end, do it right and keep him away from Thailand for his own good. Good luck with the mother, hope she doesn't change her mind $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Kenny202 said: I would definitely use a lawyer and she should have an independent lawyer too. In most countries, and I am sure here too.... unless her statement agreeing to give you full custody is stamped by her lawyer saying that she has been explained her rights and the legal implications of what she is doing, the document can be nullified later. She simply says you bullied her into it or she didn't understand what she was doing. I'm going through a similar situation.... It may be that she doesn't want the child now...but should it be financially to her benefit in the future she may try. For eg you and your child move back to farangland. Say Australia. She meets a new guy in the future and also moves to Australia. All of a sudden her new friends are telling her the benefits she can receive from the government and you to support the child. It happened to one of the members here. This is very good advice and should be heeded, right now the OP wife is agreeable to the loss of parental control, but, who knows what her thoughts or attitude will be in the future, maternal instincts can be very strong and it would be very wise to protect the child against any possible comeback in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieAus Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 11 hours ago, Rayinbkk said: I would advise using the services of a lawyer to avoid any unforeseen problems. Normally, a parent cannot simply give up parental rights, as they are tied up with the legal responsibilities a person has as a parent. The normal procedure, as I understand it, would require one parent to sue the other. This can be amicably agreed between them, but still has to go through process. It can presumably be done as part of the divorce. The court may require a report from social services who would, if relevant, include any agreed statement by one of the spouses that they agree for x, y and z reasons to give up parental rights. Otherwise, the Family Court decides. The process sounds complicated but as long as the spouse agrees, it is in fact fairly straight forward. It is obviously something very important to you and which you would not want to see go off the rails. Thus my advice to work with a lawyer. Totally agree we always get legal advice even on land transfers you never know what can come out later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny202 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 In any case, any agreement you make about custody of the child will be only that, an "understanding". So in the future she could contest it successfully. It is the same back home. You can make a property settlement and it is legal, binding and finite....but about children you can not. Reason being your situation may change in the future where it is not in the child's interest to be with you. Be aware in the future if she did want the child back she may play dirty. My lawyer told me in many custody cases the woman will claim that you molested the child and her lawyer will advise her to do it. Usually very little hope of you winning then even when the claims are fictitious. What the document will be good for though is giving you full parental rights to deal with schools, government departments etc...Hopefully make a passport without the wife's permission...and a piece of paper to show authorities should your wife claim you abducted the child etc. Even then it is a headache. Thai people just can't seem to comprehend a man being capable of raising a child. In my case I have an 18 mo toddler. It just doesn't compute. Obviously Thai men can't even take care of themselves let alone a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabanlit Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 18 hours ago, TonyClifton said: As I stated earlier, this is not acrimonious or out of control. It's just what it is and we both realize there is no moving forward. She wants to go and I'm ok with that. She's not happy and neither am I. If she decided to be a mother to her son, I might put up with it with some modifications but she doesn't want to do that. My priority has always been everyone else. My priority for my son won't change, but it's time for me now. My time here (on Earth) is fleeting. ".................this is not acrimonious or out of control." At the moment! Remember that, and 'future proof' your documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyClifton Posted September 20, 2017 Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 9 hours ago, Mattd said: This is very good advice and should be heeded, right now the OP wife is agreeable to the loss of parental control, but, who knows what her thoughts or attitude will be in the future, maternal instincts can be very strong and it would be very wise to protect the child against any possible comeback in the future. That's been the problem all along. By no fault of her own, she triggered bipolar disorder when the pregnancy hormones kicked in. She's never had the maternal instinct and may never have it. I bonded with my son from day 1 but she didn't. It's a S&@# sandwich all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny202 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, TonyClifton said: That's been the problem all along. By no fault of her own, she triggered bipolar disorder when the pregnancy hormones kicked in. She's never had the maternal instinct and may never have it. I bonded with my son from day 1 but she didn't. It's a S&@# sandwich all around. Its probably Borderline personality disorder. So many of these poorer class village women just broken and damaged from when they were kids. Google it and see what you think. My ex has it. She was being treated but pretty much untreatable with anything but downers. Hers was (and still is) particularly severe. Selfishness beyond belief, aggressiveness most times over nothing. Totally uncontrollable fits of rage. Impossible to have any sort of discussion. Most have intimacy issues where it is very hard for them to show any real affection. Their brand of love is severe jealousy and possessiveness. Again so many of these women bail on their kids. Heartless. I assume she is from a poorer class here?....not that poor means bad but the sort of women many of us find here initially are from borderline criminal families. They are lazy and entitled and hence end up working in the profession they do. Suits them to a tee. My advice to you in the future mate is find an educated lady with a good family. In fact the first thing I would be doing is checking out the family. If they are disfunctional you can just about guarantee the girl will be trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 12 hours ago, Kenny202 said: I would definitely use a lawyer and she should have an independent lawyer too. In most countries, and I am sure here too.... unless her statement agreeing to give you full custody is stamped by her lawyer saying that she has been explained her rights and the legal implications of what she is doing, the document can be nullified later. She simply says you bullied her into it or she didn't understand what she was doing. I'm going through a similar situation.... It may be that she doesn't want the child now...but should it be financially to her benefit in the future she may try. For eg you and your child move back to farangland. Say Australia. She meets a new guy in the future and also moves to Australia. All of a sudden her new friends are telling her the benefits she can receive from the government and you to support the child. It happened to one of the members here. I also agree a good lawyer should be involved, especially to prepare any paperwork, and especially to write the words / text very carefully to ensure a clever lawyer at a later date cannot claim a different meaning in the words, or claim there is ambiguity. Seems to me it's worth a few thousand Baht to get it exact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydebolle Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 You, most likely, need a ruling by the family court of the province the child is registered (see house registration), if you want to make it watertight and executable in other countries. Latter applies if you need a foreign passport (in your case US) etc.; you might also consult a consular officer of your embassy to enquire what your home country needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwonitoy Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Get a cheap lawyer, I paid 10,000 baht. Lawyer gathers up all the documents and makes an application at the social services in your district. There is an interview by a social worker, with all parties being interviewed privately, take a translator you can trust with you, if the case has merit they will forward it to family court where a judge will review the case and make a decision Based on personal experience. I won sole custody of my son as my case was clear cut and was issued the formal document 1 hour later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwonitoy Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 22/09/2017 at 10:19 AM, kwonitoy said: Get a cheap lawyer, I paid 10,000 baht. Lawyer gathers up all the documents and makes an application at the social services in your district. There is an interview by a social worker, with all parties being interviewed privately, take a translator you can trust with you, if the case has merit they will forward it to family court where a judge will review the case and make a decision Based on personal experience. I won sole custody of my son as my case was clear cut and was issued the formal document 1 hour later. I should have added, the lawyer doesn't go to court just gets the paperwork to social services, hence hire a cheap one Social services didn't even go to court in my case, the judge just looked at the documents, had me stand in court at the podium and swear to tell the truth ( he spoke good English ) Looked at my son and me, reviewed the files and down went the gavel and I was awarded sole custody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 On 20/09/2017 at 6:12 PM, Kenny202 said: Its probably Borderline personality disorder. So many of these poorer class village women just broken and damaged from when they were kids. Google it and see what you think. My ex has it. She was being treated but pretty much untreatable with anything but downers. Hers was (and still is) particularly severe. Selfishness beyond belief, aggressiveness most times over nothing. Totally uncontrollable fits of rage. Impossible to have any sort of discussion. Most have intimacy issues where it is very hard for them to show any real affection. Their brand of love is severe jealousy and possessiveness. If it is indeed one of these disorders there is no point in talking. It is basically incurable which is the sad truth. Move on. It is the only way to stay sane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 On 9/19/2017 at 5:28 PM, TonyClifton said: I don't see why it has to be drafted by a lawyer. Perhaps you can explain to me why if that is a requirement. My friend is both Thai and American and he can do the Thai agreement which I will then have officially translated for the American Embassy. The divorce is amicable, it is just a natural end to what amounts to irreconcilable differences. The official translation will be necessary to be translated into English for me to renew my son's passport. On the mutual agreement divorce form at the Amphur office, you just write father 100% custody in the place on the form. Legally binding and irreversible, once done. Your Thai/American pal need to be your witness at the divorce as they require someone to translate the 3 easy questions for you to confirm (verbally asked by head of Amphur office). Which are, 'do you agree to the division of property stated in this document?, Do you agree to the custody of the children stated in this document?, do you agree to the divorce?' If you both agree, they stamp the divorce document and it's done. As usual too many people voicing opinions who have never done it. I was the Thai speaking witness/translator for my American pal a couple of years back. The form was very easy to fill in.They wanted more photocopies than he brought. His passport, her ID, her house book, the 2 original Marriage certificates, done in 30 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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