Overstay: Flight booked but not enough money to pay fine.

[The Girl]

Hi everyone. I have overstayed for 7 months because I lost my passport. It takes 6 months for a new passport to be issued by my embassy. Finally, I have a confirmed flight, an Emergency Travel Passport, a police report & a letter from the embassy. Problem is that I have less than 10k Bahts and I am afraid I won't be able to pay 20k (it's impossible - I leave in 2 weeks). I heard the court can reduce the fine to as low as 3k? I do not have any choice. What is the process of going to the court and having a reduced fine? Can I speak to the officers at IDC a day before my flight? I am ALL GOOD to go but overstay fine is the problem. Please help. Thank you.

[ubonjoe]

You would have to turn yourself into immigration and then be sent to the IDC. You would then have to wait for a the judge to make a decision on the amount the fine will be. It could be more 3000 baht. You will also be be banned from entering the country for one year.

After paying the fine you will then be deported if you have a ticket out of the country.

 

I certain there could of been a solution to the lost passport situation and having to wait for the new passport. Most embassies  would issue a emergency travel document so you could leave the country.

[jeab1980]

Bit confusing you say wait for 6months for a new passport (which country?).

Then you say you have emergency travel documents and a  flight out ? Why waiting two weeks for flight?.

[BritTim]

If your flight out of Thailand is on any other than your national airline, having turned yourself in, and been prosecuted for your overstay, you are unlikely to be able to use your planned flight.

 

The process of getting yourself arrested and taken to court is not just a standard way of requesting a reduced fine with no other repercussions. You are incarcerated, and after paying the court ordered fine, then subject to deportation. Most airlines will not accept you as a passenger when you are being deported.

 

Unless you can find some way, any way, of raising the sum needed to pay your fine at the airport on departure, your life is destined to become very unpleasant.

 

As an aside, I find it difficult to believe it takes your embassy seven months to issue an emergency travel document.

Edited September 25, 2017 by BritTim

[The Girl]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You would have to turn yourself into immigration and then be sent to the IDC. You would then have to wait for a the judge to make a decision on the amount the fine will be. It could be more 3000 baht. You will also be be banned from entering the country for one year.

After paying the fine you will then be deported if you have a ticket out of the country.

 

I certain there could of been a solution to the lost passport situation and having to wait for the new passport. Most embassies  would issue a emergency travel document so you could leave the country.

Thank you. I already have a valid emergency travel document issued by my embassy. The embassy first said I should wait 2 months and later stated that my new passport will take 6 months - hence the overstay. They have issued a letter.  But I still have to pay overstay. My flight is confirmed. The overstay fee is my only issue. I do not have any intentions of returning to Thailand. I will have to turn myself in. Would you recommend I turn myself in 1/2 days or a week before my flight?

[The Girl]

3 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Bit confusing you say wait for 6months for a new passport (which country?).

Then you say you have emergency travel documents and a  flight out ? Why waiting two weeks for flight?.

Hi, the South African Embassy takes 6 months for a new passport. But they have issued a valid emergency travel documents because the passport is STILL being processed - hence the overstay. So I booked Kenya Airways flight and I am ready to leave. However, I do not have 20k for overstay. I just want advice about the fine reduction. I only have 10k. 

[alfieconn]

2 minutes ago, The Girl said:

Thank you. I already have a valid emergency travel document issued by my embassy. The embassy first said I should wait 2 months and later stated that my new passport will take 6 months - hence the overstay. They have issued a letter.  But I still have to pay overstay. My flight is confirmed. The overstay fee is my only issue. I do not have any intentions of returning to Thailand. I will have to turn myself in. Would you recommend I turn myself in 1/2 days or a week before my flight?

Probably would have been best to attend Immigration when you first lost your passport and discussed with them how to extend your means of staying in Thailand.

[jeab1980]

1 minute ago, The Girl said:

Hi, the South African Embassy takes 6 months for a new passport. But they have issued a valid emergency travel documents because the passport is STILL being processed - hence the overstay. So I booked Kenya Airways flight and I am ready to leave. However, I do not have 20k for overstay. I just want advice about the fine reduction. I only have 10k. 

Read the post above 

[The Girl]

5 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If your flight out of Thailand is on any other than your national airline, having turned yourself in, and been prosecuted for your overstay, you are unlikely to be able to use your planned flight.

 

The process of getting yourself arrested and taken to court is not just a standard way of requesting a reduced fine with no other repercussions. You are incarcerated, and after paying the court ordered fine, then subject to deportation. Most airlines will not accept you as a passenger when you are being deported.

 

Unless you can find some way, any way, of raising the sum needed to pay your fine at the airport on departure, your life is destined to become very unpleasant.

 

As an aside, I find it difficult to believe it takes your embassy seven months to issue an emergency travel document.

The South African embassy does take 6 months to issue new passports. I was just as baffled. I have booked Kenya Airways and have a valid travel emergency documents. There are so many storeies I have heard of people not having a problem as long as they have a FLIGHT and valid Travel documents. Have you actually been through the process that you are describing to me?

[The Girl]

2 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

Probably would have been best to attend Immigration when you first lost your passport and discussed with them how to extend your means of staying in Thailand.

I did so. They only gave 7 days of an emergency extension - useless when your embassy is this incompetent.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, The Girl said:

Thank you. I already have a valid emergency travel document issued by my embassy. The embassy first said I should wait 2 months and later stated that my new passport will take 6 months - hence the overstay. They have issued a letter.  But I still have to pay overstay. My flight is confirmed. The overstay fee is my only issue. I do not have any intentions of returning to Thailand. I will have to turn myself in. Would you recommend I turn myself in 1/2 days or a week before my flight?

Hard to predict how many day before your flight to turn yourself in. I would say at least 3 or 4 business days before the flight.

If in Bangkok you can go directly to the detention center to turn yourself in. It is located at 507 Soi Suan Plu, Sathorn Bangkok.

[BritTim]

19 minutes ago, The Girl said:

The South African embassy does take 6 months to issue new passports. I was just as baffled. I have booked Kenya Airways and have a valid travel emergency documents. There are so many storeies I have heard of people not having a problem as long as they have a FLIGHT and valid Travel documents. Have you actually been through the process that you are describing to me?

People with flight and valid flight documents leaving through an airport in the normal way (paying overstay fines and being blacklisted as appropriate) usually have no other problem. As long as you can raise the cash for the overstay fine, and do the same, you should also be allowed to leave normally. The problem is that your intention is to have yourself arrested and prosecuted in Thailand, not punished by immigration as you leave the country. That is a very different matter.

 

Your suspicion that I have not had myself arrested, prosecuted and deported for overstay is correct. I am basing my statements on numerous reports available in threads on this site and elsewhere. There are a couple of people who post regularly in this forum who have direct contact with those in the IDC and undergoing deportation. By all means disbelieve my predictions on what might happen. I do suggest you do some searches on 'Thailand deportation process' before making a final decision, however.

 

I believe South Africa might take six months to issue a regular replacement passport. I still find it totally incredible that it would take that long to issue an emergency travel document, issued by most embassies within 24 hours.

 

EDIT: According to http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/homeaffairs/pp_fees.htm an emergency travel certificate takes one week. I strongly advise you to be careful what you say to Thailand immigration. They will be as aware as I am how long an ETD application takes.

Edited September 25, 2017 by BritTim
Evidence that Soth African emergency travel documents take less than 7 months

[sanemax]

13 minutes ago, The Girl said:

I did so. They only gave 7 days of an emergency extension - useless when your embassy is this incompetent.

You got a 7 day "extension" on a lost passport ?

Where did they put the extension stamp ?

[The Girl]

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

People with flight and valid flight documents leaving through an airport in the normal way (paying overstay fines and being blacklisted as appropriate) usually have no other problem. As long as you can raise the cash for the overstay fine, and do the same, you should also be allowed to leave normally. The problem is that your intention is to have yourself arrested and prosecuted in Thailand, not punished by immigration as you leave the country. That is a very different matter.

 

Your suspicion that I have not had myself arrested, prosecuted and deported for overstay is correct. I am basing my statements on numerous reports available in threads on this site and elsewhere. There are a couple of people who post regularly in this forum who have direct contact with those in the IDC and undergoing deportation. By all means disbelieve my predictions on what might happen. I do suggest you do some searches on 'Thailand deportation process' before making a final decision, however.

 

I believe South Africa might take six months to issue a regular replacement passport. I still find it totally incredible that it would take that long to issue an emergency travel document, issued by most embassies within 24 hours.

You are mistaken about the issuance of passport and travel document. A new passport takes 6 months, however, the emergency travel documents does take 24 hours. One has to show a confirmed ticket before an emergency documents is issued. In my case, this is about an alternative to leaving the country for good. I have already raised money for my flight. Unfortunately, 10k is the best I could do for overstay fine. I do not mind prosecution - I just have a strong urge to be home. Your advise is for people who still wish to return to Thailand - not the case here. Thanks

[jeab1980]

Right that makes sense now. You had to get money for flight first and fine and it has taken you nearly 7 months to do so is that correct. 

[The Girl]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You got a 7 day "extension" on a lost passport ?

Where did they put the extension stamp ?

It was an exemption clause in a form of a letter on a paper. The same way I will need a departure stamp but I don't have a passport - they will stamp it on my Emergency travel documents which is also in paper form. If possible, may you kindly respond with useful questions and answer next time. My documents are not the subject matter. The embassy has fully assisted me and have authentication from the Thai Immigration. This is about money! I only have 10k and a plane ticket. I need an alternative to leaving the country with a reduced fine. I do not have any intentions on returning. 

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, The Girl said:

This is about money! I only have 10k and a plane ticket. I need an alternative to leaving the country with a reduced fine. I do not have any intentions on returning. 

I think we understand what you want. The trouble is that Thailand immigration is not offering a special reduced overstay fine promotion at the current time. Perhaps, you are correct, and a Thai judge will give you a reduced fine, and immigration release you to make your own way to the airport without ordering your deportation. As you intimated earlier, I cannot be sure that would not happen. I can only say that I have not heard of that happening before. Also, almost invariably, airlines will refuse to carry passengers who are undergoing deportation (the only exception being your national carrier who are obliged to do so under international law). I have nothing against you, and hope your optimism proves warranted.

[The Girl]

14 minutes ago, BritTim said:

People with flight and valid flight documents leaving through an airport in the normal way (paying overstay fines and being blacklisted as appropriate) usually have no other problem. As long as you can raise the cash for the overstay fine, and do the same, you should also be allowed to leave normally. The problem is that your intention is to have yourself arrested and prosecuted in Thailand, not punished by immigration as you leave the country. That is a very different matter.

 

Your suspicion that I have not had myself arrested, prosecuted and deported for overstay is correct. I am basing my statements on numerous reports available in threads on this site and elsewhere. There are a couple of people who post regularly in this forum who have direct contact with those in the IDC and undergoing deportation. By all means disbelieve my predictions on what might happen. I do suggest you do some searches on 'Thailand deportation process' before making a final decision, however.

 

I believe South Africa might take six months to issue a regular replacement passport. I still find it totally incredible that it would take that long to issue an emergency travel document, issued by most embassies within 24 hours.

 

EDIT: According to http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/homeaffairs/pp_fees.htm an emergency travel certificate takes one week. I strongly advise you to be careful what you say to Thailand immigration. They will be as aware as I am how long an ETD application takes.

You are TOTALLY mistaken. It is the passport that takes 6 months - not the travel emergency document. That only takes 24 hours. I had to show a confirmed ticket before a travel document can be issued. It took 6 months to wait for my passport (which I still have not received) and then realising I have to raise money from friends  and family for a one way ticket home. Only then was the ETD issued - not because of the application process but that I had failed to show a confirmed ticket. Also, NY and Bangkok are incomparable. 

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, The Girl said:

You are TOTALLY mistaken. It is the passport that takes 6 months - not the travel emergency document. That only takes 24 hours. I had to show a confirmed ticket before a travel document can be issued. It took 6 months to wait for my passport (which I still have not received) and then realising I have to raise money from friends  and family for a one way ticket home. Only then was the ETD issued - not because of the application process but that I had failed to show a confirmed ticket. Also, NY and Bangkok are incomparable. 

Basically, you are saying that the length of time taken to issue a passport is irrelevant. You brought it up as some kind of weak excuse. You only needed an ETD to travel back to South Africa. That could have been issued as soon as you lost your old passport if you had the money for the flight ticket.

[The Girl]

11 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Right that makes sense now. You had to get money for flight first and fine and it has taken you nearly 7 months to do so is that correct. 

Correct. While I was waiting for my passport I was raising money from family and friends. I realised quite late that this is getting out of control when the Embassy couldn't give me a definite date/month of my passport arrival. I have raised a further 10k for the fine - which is not enough and hence my question. I do not have intentions on returning.  

[richardt1808]

I am also an SA Citizen and was in the same situation 14 months ago. You have been given bad advice. This is the correct procedure:

 

1. Get an Emergency travel certificate from the SA Embassy. The purpose of the ETD is to allow citizens to get home after losing a passport, or having a passport expire. The Embassy has some discretion in terms of how long the certificate is valid - usually it is based on when you are able to book your ticket. You are allowed to transit another country on your route home, but your final destination must be your home country.

 

2. Leave the country on your ETD. You may need to explain the situation to the Emmigration desk, but they handle cases like this all the time and I was stamped out of the country with no problem.

 

3. You will encounter problems at check in because SA has an airline boarding stipulation that says only individuals with a valid passport are allowed to board - and that Emergency Travel documents are not valid. This provision is for non-SA citizens and an SA citizen IS allowed to return home on an ETD at any time. The airline may not believe you on this point, so be sure to have a letter from the SA Embassy specifically stating that they must allow you to board your flight. Alternatively, make sure that you have the SA Embassy contact number handy (if you are boarding after hours, make sure you have the after hours contact number).

 

4. When you arrive in SA, enter the country with your ETD.

 

5. Make sure that you have a photocopy of the ETD for your future reference because SA Immigration will take the certificate from you and you may at some point need to refer to your Thai departure stamp.

 

6. There is no reason to wait additional weeks to take your booked flight. Change the ticket to the earliest possible date and get yourself home on your ETD.

 

I agree with the comments above about NOT going the deportation route. Do whatever you can to get the overstay cash and pay it if that's at all possible. LAST resort is IDC and I'd agree with Ubonjoe in that you should do that 72 hours before your flight. Make sure you do things on a weekday and not a weekend or holiday.

 

Best of luck 

[Billy The Kid]

it is more easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle than an overstayer man who is trying to escape thailand Scot free . 

 

Ignore my silly banter .. 

 

beat of luck to you , some valuable comment here will help . 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Billy The Kid
Silly banter

[petermik]

7 hours ago, The Girl said:

 If possible, may you kindly respond with useful questions and answer next time.

It is a pity you did not bring this problem up much earlier,much helpful advice on here,but now its too late.............you must do whatever you can to have 20,000 baht available for the fine otherwise you may get a very extended stay here which you will not like.........

[The Girl]

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

Basically, you are saying that the length of time taken to issue a passport is irrelevant. You brought it up as some kind of weak excuse. You only needed an ETD to travel back to South Africa. That could have been issued as soon as you lost your old passport if you had the money for the flight ticket.

Good grief. My passport is still in the process of being issued - that is what makes it irrelevant. The embassy has failed to provide an estimate date of my passport arrival. This means I could wait 2+ more months. I am making a decision to go back home and collect the passport there. In order to do so, I need an ETD. The embassy agreed to grant one. All the wheels are set. I have raised 10k from family but its not enough to leave - hence my question. 

 

You are misunderstood, mistaken and have taken my question far and wide out of context. Please, won't you summarise my question? I just want to make sure that you understand?  Nevermind, I'll do it for you: I lost my passport. I decided I wont wait 6 months for a new one. So I book a flight and apply for an ETD. Embassy confirms. Now I have to pay 20k for overstay. I have 10k - can someone help DO something not EXPLAIN myself.

[stevenl]

Start crowdfunding, or any other means of getting money.

[marginline]

Commiserations to you The Girl that you have had to experience such worry. I am flabberghasted though that having shared this fact with your family and friends, they didn't just send you this money via Western Union - months ago.

[The Girl]

9 minutes ago, Billy The Kid said:

it is more easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle than an overstayer man who is trying to escape thailand Scot free . 

 

Ignore my silly banter .. 

 

beat of luck to you , some valuable comment here will help . 

Speaking from expereince? If not, how would you know? If so, why are you still in Thailand? If likely, don't waste other peoples time. If possible, shut up. But if you want to, read thoroughly before responding. 

[Billy The Kid]

Just now, The Girl said:

Speaking from expereince? If not, how would you know? If so, why are you still in Thailand? If likely, don't waste other peoples time. If possible, shut up. But if you want to, read thoroughly before responding. 

I won't argue with you  , I was bang out of order .  Sorry ?. 

[The Girl]

2 minutes ago, marginline said:

Commiserations to you The Girl that you have had to experience such worry. I am flabberghasted though that having shared this fact with your family and friends, they didn't just send you this money via Western Union - months ago.

I just stated in my MANY replies that I have raised over 30k Bahts from family and friends. I used the money to book a ticket and now I have less than 10k to pay the fine. Useful advise would be appreciated. Thanks for your concern  :) 

[BritTim]

Options:

1. Raise the cash for the overstay fine, and leave through the airport normally.
2. Have yourself arrested and prosecuted for the overstay. Your fine will almost certainly be reduced to likely between 3,000 and 8,000 baht. Then hope
   (i) you are not deported, but allowed to leave normally; or
   (ii) Kenya Airways will accept you as a passenger in spite of the fact that you are being deported.
   If neither of these eventualities occurs, prepare for a long stay in the IDC.
3. Disappear inside Thailand and hope for a future miracle, having exhausted the generosity of friends and family.