Hatari Fan Bearings

[Daffy D]

Seems that Hatari fans now come with small sealed ball bearings instead of the old bush bearings.

 

 

Good idea on the face of it as these should last longer. Problem is as the ball bearing is sealed it's not possible to re-grease /re-oil should it be needed, the only option is to replace the bearing

 

I'm guessing replacement bearings must be available somewhere, any ideas where?.

 

Cheers

[VocalNeal]

Is it gone completely? Usually it is possible to introduce a little oil with a hypodermic, from a pharmacy. Even grease can be dispensed with hypodermic, just needs a bigger needle! I used to inject the rear wheel bearings of my Kart with Tufoil PTFE additive 

 

Bearings can be bought at most local hardware/tool stores. They are all standard sizes.

 

[Crossy]

We have a local "Pulleys, Bearings, Sprockets and Cogs" shop, he's never let me down.

 

Fan bearings may be too small for him to stock but worst come to worst Aliexpress will be your friend.

[Daffy D]

3 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Usually it is possible to introduce a little oil with a hypodermic

 

As I said the bearing is sealed - not possible to get a hypodermic in there. I have dropped oil onto the bearing and spun it round hoping some will get in through the joints. That helped a bit but really needs to be replaced in the near future.

 

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

We have a local "Pulleys, Bearings, Sprockets and Cogs" shop, he's never let me down.

 

As far as I know we don't have dedicated "Pulleys, Bearings, Sprockets and Cogs" shop sound here but will have a look. Probably try my local "have everything" shop first they would know.

 

[VocalNeal]

Looks like you may have the ones with the C-Ring?

 

 

[Daffy D]

11 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Looks like you may have the ones with the C-Ring?

 

My bad!  Didn't  bother to look closely.

 

Some good information on the YouTube links. 

 

Fan still a bit squeaky at the moment, guess some oil must have got in but the TV drowns it out.

 

Will have another go at it when the noise gets too bad.

 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

Turn the TV up a bit. 

 

I stitch in time , saves nine

[Crossy]

On 03/10/2017 at 1:24 PM, Daffy D said:

Seems that Hatari fans now come with small sealed ball bearings instead of the old bush bearings.

 

Any idea when the change was made?

 

It does explain why our newer Hatari fans haven't gone the same way as the early ones with gummed up sintered bearings.

 

The old unit in which I replaced the knackered bronze bearings with ball races is still going strong 5 odd years on

 

[Daffy D]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Any idea when the change was made?

 

Sorry no.

This fan was a remote control so one of my late purchases, but then that would still have been a few years ago.

 

Had plenty of clean and lube job on the bush bearing ones but this is the first ball bearing one I've had trouble with. Didn't even know they did ball bearings till I took it apart.  

[JohnMc45]

Not to nit pick but that is a shielded not a sealed bearing. There should be some numbers and letters stamped or etched into the bearing race or shield/seal this will be the size. Drop that in google and 99% time you will get hundreds of places to buy from. There should ZZ at the end of your code signifying shielded both sides. You could sub a 2RS double sealed and be just fine. As pointed out you can usually get a needle past the edge of the seal and inject some grease. You would probably also be fine getting the shield out of the side away from the motor and leaving it open. Basically making it a Z or RS.      

[Daffy D]

Cheers - Interesting info that I never knew

 

As I mentioned previously some oil must have got into the "shielded" bearing as it's running much quieter now.

Will leave it alone for now and see what happens.

 

 

[Issangeorge]

Cheers - Interesting info that I never knew [emoji106]
 
As I mentioned previously some oil must have got into the "shielded" bearing as it's running much quieter now.
Will leave it alone for now and see what happens.
 
[emoji2] 

Try here. https://www.hatari.co.th/en/parts

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[impulse]

On 10/3/2017 at 10:19 PM, Arjen said:

Oil will ruin a bearing....

 

It is possible to remove the sealing with a small screwdriver. After washing the bearing, and dry it you can fill it with a good quality grease. When you did not damage the sealing you can place it back.

 

Not true at all.  (Edit:  Well, at least not universally true)  High speed and low friction bearings thrive on oil.  Put grease into a fishing reel spool end bearing, and you won't be able to cast more than a few feet.

 

[JohnMc45]

On 1/1/2018 at 12:52 AM, impulse said:

 

Not true at all.  (Edit:  Well, at least not universally true)  High speed and low friction bearings thrive on oil.  Put grease into a fishing reel spool end bearing, and you won't be able to cast more than a few feet.

 

Agreed. There  are  many  that  run in oil baths or pressurized  oil  systems.  Small  amounts of  real  oil to soften dried  grease  is normally  fine. I  think  where  the  no oil  in bearings  comes  from is the miss use  of  everyone's  old  friend  WD40  People  would  over  use  it  and wash whatever grease and oil  out of the bearing. It would  fail, they  would  think  but I oiled  it with  WD40 oil must  be  bad for  bearings. 

[impulse]

14 minutes ago, JohnMc45 said:

Agreed. There  are  many  that  run in oil baths or pressurized  oil  systems.  Small  amounts of  real  oil to soften dried  grease  is normally  fine. I  think  where  the  no oil  in bearings  comes  from is the miss use  of  everyone's  old  friend  WD40  People  would  over  use  it  and wash whatever grease and oil  out of the bearing. It would  fail, they  would  think  but I oiled  it with  WD40 oil must  be  bad for  bearings. 

 

Yup   WD40 is a great solvent, but once it evaporates, it's not a good lubricant. 

 

One of the things that fools people is that it does lubricate okay for a few minutes before it evaporates, and if you're in a hurry you may believe that it's all good.  

 

[faraday]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Yup   WD40 is a great solvent, but once it evaporates, it's not a good lubricant. 

 

One of the things that fools people is that it does lubricate okay for a few minutes before it evaporates, and if you're in a hurry you may believe that it's all good.  

 

What do you use instead of wd40 for general lubrication - door hinges etc?

[VocalNeal]

"Singer" Sewing machine oil. Available everywhere in Thailand even remote village stores.

[impulse]

8 minutes ago, faraday said:

What do you use instead of wd40 for general lubrication - door hinges etc?

 

Like VocalNeal, my favorite is sewing machine oil. 

 

Easy to find, works like a champ, and if you think about the abuse that a commercial sewing machine takes with respect to lint and dust and hours and hours of constant operation, it's got to be some pretty good stuff to perform.

 

Edit:  I should add that I spray WD40 on them first, to flush out the mung and chogies that's built up.  But then a few drops of sewing machine oil.

 

[4evermaat]

6 hours ago, faraday said:

What do you use instead of wd40 for general lubrication - door hinges etc?

Lithium grease or white grease.  oil is usually better for enclosed environment, where the oil will be retained/circulated in a fixed pattern.  But if the lubricated part has constant exposure to the environment and/or under a higher temperature (a constantly spinning shaft), white grease will not burn off as fast.  Not too expensive.  WD-40 I think has a lithium grease version, but not sure if you'd find it in thailand.

 

If you find yourself constantly re-oiling with wd40/sewing oil/etc then give the lithium grease a try.

[tryasimight]

Grease is actually oil contained in a carrier compound. In simple terms when the bearing goes into the load zone the oil is expressed from the grease, lubricates and is then reabsorbed after the load zone is passed. That is why 'old' grease seems to be clay or soap like - the oil has parted company with the base.

 

A bit off topic but this expression/reabsorption process is why it is very important to apply the correct grade of grease. If high pressure grease is used in a low pressure application the lubrication will not occur effectively and bearing failure will follow. Not something the average home owner needs to concerned about but is very, very important with industrial machinery.

Similarly oil levels in gearboxes etc. I won't bore you with the details but overfilling a gearbox can have some interesting (and costly) effects. Google micro dieseling.

[Issangeorge]

Grease is actually oil contained in a carrier compound. In simple terms when the bearing goes into the load zone the oil is expressed from the grease, lubricates and is then reabsorbed after the load zone is passed. That is why 'old' grease seems to be clay or soap like - the oil has parted company with the base.
 
A bit off topic but this expression/reabsorption process is why it is very important to apply the correct grade of grease. If high pressure grease is used in a low pressure application the lubrication will not occur effectively and bearing failure will follow. Not something the average home owner needs to concerned about but is very, very important with industrial machinery.
Similarly oil levels in gearboxes etc. I won't bore you with the details but overfilling a gearbox can have some interesting (and costly) effects. Google micro dieseling.

Check this site out for Harari replacement parts. Can pay for them at the bank, quick service, mailed right to your door, two or three days. https://www.hatari.co.th/en/parts

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[Daffy D]

So the bearing stared to get louder again until the TV volume just couldn't cope anymore.

 

So armed with the information from this thread decided to do the job properly this tine.

 

Got down to the bearing and found that it was in fact "sealed" with a pressed in metal cover. No easy way to open it up so used a hammer and very small screwdriver to get leverage on the cover plate to flip it out.

 

Surprisingly the bearing was filled with grease that had dried crumbly and hard. I cleaned out the bearing of all the old grease and repacked it with some chassis grease that I had, straightened out the cover plate as best I could and tapped it back in place. Probably not ideal but the best I could do as with the hot weather we really did need the extra fan.

 

The fan has been back in service for a couple of days now and is running nice and quiet so the chassis grease seems to be working OK.

 

I would still like to get a replacement bearing for a spare but without the actual bearing to take to the shop I was wondering if the part number would be enough to get a proper replacement?

 

[JohnMc45]

Yes some bearings are only a three digit number. Off the top of my head I believe that is the light duty metric series. Yes to be double shielded it's supposed to be ZZ but many manufacturers just mark them Z


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[Daffy D]

Thaking a closer look, it does look like the number is 608Z:-

 Should have done this in the first place

 

Difficult to measure the sizes now its back in the fan, should have done that also but without one of those slide rule things thought the meaurment would not be acurate enough.

 

So is the number NMB 608Z enough to shop round for a replecement?

[Daffy D]

Vernier calipers - Yes that's the word I was looking for - I've been in-country so long sure I'm loosing the English language, and spellcheck not working doesn't help 

 

Anyways will have a punt round the shops tomorrow with my bit of paper and hopefully get a result.

 

[JohnMc45]

NMB is most likely the maker. You sometimes get letters and numbers after the size to denote things like high temp or high precision. 608 is very common I believe. Should be 8mm ID 22mm OD. If you can't find shielded (Z/ZZ) you can use a sealed (RS/2RS) bearing. Actually probably should be a 2RS but they are a couple baht more so manufacturers will use a ZZ.


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[worgeordie]

One of our tenants left 3 Hatari floor fans when they vacated,all filthy

and seized up, dismantled,cleaned them up, first some WD40 on 

the bearings,that freed them ,next some  Singer oil, 3 fans good as

new, they most likely never change the air filter or oil in their car, either.

 

Every time I clean our fans ,which is quite regular,dont know where

the muck comes from, I oil them as well,have a couple must be 25 

years old, and they are much stronger and more powerful than 

what's available today.

regards worgeordie

[Crossy]

Here they are http://www.skf.com/us/products/bearings-units-housings/ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings/index.html?designation=608-Z

 

Buy them on AliExpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/THGS-2-pcs-Single-Shielded-608Z-Miniature-Deep-Groove-Ball-Bearings/32718853338.html

 

Your local Bearings, Pulleys, Sprockets and Cogs shop should be able to help.

 

Apparently they're skateboard bearings, lots of high performance options, ceramic and the like https://www.vxb.com/8-Skateboard-Bearing-608Z-Shielded-p/sk8zz.htm

 

[VocalNeal]

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

Your local Bearings, Pulleys, Sprockets and Cogs shop should be able to help.

YEP. Take/knock out the bearing and take it to a busy or large  mom and pop hardware store. They will have one/two. The older "bronze" bushings? Not so much.

 

I'm in the worgeordie lubrication camp! 

[Daffy D]

Success! My first stop was to a Mom and Pop Amorn type shop that I had only recently discovered while looking for a timer for Panasonic washing machine.

 

Showed Mom the picture with the part number and she knew straight away what I wanted. So confirms all you need is the part number to get the part.

 

I bought 2 bearings as spares and maybe next time if one of the old fans with bush bearings needs attention I'll see if the ball bearing can replace the bush and possibly save many bush cleaning operations in the future.

 

Also tried the real Amorn shop just for future reference but they "nohab".

 

Thanks "Crossy" for the links will keep a note of them especially the skateboard ones, those little guys should outlast any fan.

 

 "Issangeorge" Couldn't find any reference to bearings on your Hatari link - https://www.hatari.co.th/en/parts - but useful just the same for other parts which I'm sure will become necessary at some time in the future.