Thaivisa exclusive: “Attempted murder" as "Australian" man punched by Thai in school says he is really British

[Si Thea01]

4 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Yes I do Si Thea. While I was asleep the other week with my mouth open the wife put something in it. I started choking.

 

I am not a man of the Law Si Thea. Your arguments are strong and I might concede the point about attempted murder. What about aggravated assult by goldman?!

So are you saying you know what constitutes the proofs of attempted murder.  I doubt it very much.  Now,  I don't know, at least not in Thailand, because there is not a charge, at least that I am aware of, contained within the Thai Criminal Code.  So how the police instigated this I have no idea, maybe some recent amendments, don't know.  All I can tell is what happens in NSW, Australia, as a comparison.

 

No, not even aggravated assault, no such charge.  There is however, under Section 295 of the Criminal Code, Offence Against Body   "An offence where that whoever, causes injury to the other person in body or mind is said to commit bodily harm, and shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or fined not exceeding four thousand Baht, or both." 

 

There are other offences which give rise to include negligence but I don't intend to go into them here.  As for what will be or not be preferred against the Thai is up to the cops, not me or anyone on here. I think we should just sit back and play the waiting game. It will all come to a head and then there won't be any need for guessing.  What do you reckon?

 

[Thaidream]

Too much speculation based upon videos that are not 100% definitive except the one in which the Thai man punches the Brit. No one was killed but they could have been.  I have witnessed a man striking another man who then hit his head on the curb and died- this was in USA- there was no intent to kill- however involuntary manslaughter was the charge and the perpetrator got 5 years in prison.

In this case- I do not believe either party had any intent to kill anyone- anger and emotions boiled over because of the Brit not allowing the Thai into the flow of traffic.  The video does appear to show the Brit moving forward in his car and strike the Thai- however the Brit stops suddenly which to me indicates he had no intent to hit the Thai-  the Thai jumps on the bonnet and the inertia throws him off. It could be the Brit was so angry- he did not see the Thai at first.

These facts are definite-

-There was an incident on the roadway in which the Thai encroached into the Brit's lane and the Brit refused to give way

-The Brit grabbed a large knife and damaged the Thai's car and appeared to wave it at the Thai in a threatening manner.

-The Brit hit the Thai -unknow if intentionally or by inattention

-The Thai  punched the Brit in front of the police -drawing blood and knocking him to the ground

 

IMHO- in the West- the Brit would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon (car); terroristic threatening; Damage to property (Thai's Car)

 

The Thai would be charged with Assault (striking the blow); Terroristic threatening (based upon threat in video )

 

In the West - the police would write it up and the whole incident with evidence sent to the prosecutor who would decide the disposition or send it to a Grand Jury to decide on an indictment- then to the court and a trial. Once the criminal charges settled- someone would then sue in civil court.

 

In Thailand-  the charges would be similar but attempted murder thrown in as a charge. In Thailand- the case could be negotiated out with degrees of compensation if the parties will negotiate. The Brit would be better off going this route to avoid the case going to the Thai prosecutor. With the videos presented and possible witnesses- the case against the Brit is strong as it involves using a car and a large knife in a potentially threatening manner.  Going to the Thai prosecutor and then to a judge (no juries in Thailand) opens the Brit to possible jail time and then deportation.  While the Thai has some culpability for the punch- the Brit has much more to lose in the long run such as his freedom and his retirement in Thailand.

[Peterw42]

12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Thai jumps on the bonnet and the inertia throws him off. It could be the Brit was so angry- he did not see the Thai at first.

Have you seen the front on video of the car hitting the Thai ? He appears to jump just before the car hits his legs, he still impacts with the car with enough force to smash the windscreen.

 

https://www.facebook.com/100006583920021/videos/2205727692990007/

[off road pat]

On 14/10/2017 at 9:44 AM, Thaidream said:

Yes- I have also in the past waved with an open hand and it was misconstrued- in addition- pointing a finger or fingers triggers a negative reaction. Stopping a taxi or other  in Thailand is done with the back of the hand extended and the waving is directed towards your own body. When driving I avoid eye contact; waving of any type and a smile if an encounter occurs. When walking don't ever believe that a Thai driver will stop and let you pass and don't get upset when they don't. I have seen incidents erupt between foreign pedestrians in Thailand and Thai drivers.

Best advice- do not use your Western mindset in Thailand and believe Thai's are going to act the same as you would expect others to act in your home country. It's not going to happen. Live and let live and the bottom line-  live.

best advice of the day !!!

[Thaidream]

I have seen all the videos- however, I do not know if the Brit did not see the Thai; was looking down when the car moved forward; or whether he was trying to nudge the Thai and scare him and I doubt the video can adequately show the intent.  However, the Brit's vehicle did impact the Thai and therein lies the potential fault.  As I mentioned prior- it would behoove the Brit to attempt to negotiate and the 2  parties agree to a settlement.  If it goes to the prosecutor and then a judge- the potential for jail time is there. The negotiation would consider degree of fault; damages; injuries and compensation for behavior.

[Tony125]

43 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Well I havn't actually watched any vids of the incident yet.

 

Just gathered the evidence from TVforum postings.

 

 

Don't make comments about the incident if you haven't seen the vid to make a decision not base it on hearsay written on forum 

 

[clashpie]

I hope the plonker gets sent down and he's kept off the roads of Thailand forever!

He's in his 70's (though with the mental age of a kid) and why the <deleted> is he carrying a weapon in his car in the first place(surely an offence in itself)?

He is nothing more than a bell end playing the hard man with a weapon in his hand and then runs over the other bloke is more than just road rage!

Get him off the road because there are enough lunatics driving around the streets.

Just thinking about it...forget prison just send him back to the UK where he can join the Tories in their Brexit negotiations with Europe!

lol

 

[DurianBreath]

30 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

Don't make comments about the incident if you haven't seen the vid to make a decision not base it on hearsay written on forum 

 

Why can't he?

[marquis22]

Phewwww glad he is not an Aussie  

[Happy Grumpy]

On 10/13/2017 at 9:55 AM, webfact said:

The ‘Australian’ pensioner who was floored by a left hook in the parking lot of a Pattaya school on Wednesday after a road rage incident is really British national George Collins,

 

Also charged with Attempted Australianism? 

[clashpie]

They both should be made to sweep the streets of Bangkok with a two inch paint brush for a year to get the rage out their systems! Lol

Obviously now having watched the videos the Thai man has a degree of responsibly for what happed but the Brit/Aussie's reaction was way over the top.

The Brit/Aussie deserved the slap he got and I was just surprised his dentures didn't shoot out and hit a the Policeman stood with him.

 

 

[Rimmer]

Some more off topic and troll posts have been removed.

[Destiny1990]

Thai guy also looks for a confrontation and he also drives like a nutter. He illegally overtakes and brakes without any reasons.

[Rc2702]

Considering this geezer was in the fishing industry you'd think he was a master of being patient. If he had just parked his car for 1 minute anywhere on the left and contained himself he would not be in this situation now. 

[snowgard]

On 14.10.2017 at 4:08 AM, balo said:

Please look at the 3rd video posted on Facebook , where you clearly see the Thai in front of the car being hit. Thanks to his quick reaction he somehow managed to land on his feet, 

For me it looks more that the thai guy jump extra little back on the car and not that the car hit him.

 

If you look it slowly you see that it's a big show from the Thai. 

[tingtongtourist]

20 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

He could not have been killed by any reasonable standard.  I don't think he could have been dragged under.  I guess he could have landed straight down on his head but this would take a few 'ifs'.  By the same token there a number of 'ifs' that could occur when someone is punched hard, yet you do not consider this to be attempted murder.

 

If someone did die it would be more by way of freak happening, in the same way that we could stumble over and hit our head on a kerbstone.  It really can't be factored in imo, or just about anything might be considered attempted murder, eg, you could just lightly push someone causing them to stumble and then incur a mortal injury.

 

Next time you have the opportiunity stand 2-3 metres away from a parked car, not in the road.  Now imagine someone pulling away.  It will likely dawn on you immediately what a miscalculation you are making. You could not be dragged under, and there is no chance of being flung in to the air high at that speed.

I think you miss the crucial point with the sucker punch example.

This punch you cannot see coming hence you cannot brace or get ready yourself.

 

This why people hit in a suprised way like that is more dangerous since they are more common to concuss straight away and fall back and hit the head. 

 

The example you mention about the car is very different. At least you see it coming!

 

In this case is obvious the guy knew the car approach him. He had enough time to position himself onto the bonnet and lever himself over and on his feet.

 

Should point out, If the Brit had hit him in the car, in same manner as a coward punch  (if thai not even looking or knowing it was coming) the Thai guy would have had no hope to escape injury

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

I think you miss the crucial point with the sucker punch example.

This punch you cannot see coming hence you cannot brace or get ready yourself.

 

This why people hit in a suprised way like that is more dangerous since they are more common to concuss straight away and fall back and hit the head. 

 

The example you mention about the car is very different. At least you see it coming!

 

In this case is obvious the guy knew the car approach him. He had enough time to position himself onto the bonnet and lever himself over and on his feet.

 

Should point out, If the Brit had hit him in the car, in same manner as a coward punch  (if thai not even looking or knowing it was coming) the Thai guy would have had no hope to escape injury

 

Speed- lack of it- was a crucial factor.

 

They were both dangerous acts.  The punch is obviously easier to classify, it's a pure assault, and worse if it leads to serious injury or death.

 

The car incident has left many of us scratching our heads. Because the weapon is a car, some maintain that it has to be considered attempted murder, but watching the video it appears that a low speed impact cannot reasonably be regarded as a life or death issue.  There is the machete incident too.  Incredibly there does not appear sufficient evidence to conclude that the target was anything other than the car, even with the latest version of the video to emerge.

 

My general impression of Thai law-and I may be wrong here- is that Thais tend to be charged on what the actual outcome reveals.  Ordinarily then, both would be regarded as assault. 

 

 

 

 

[tingtongtourist]

19 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Splitting up the incident 'step by step'.....

1) Unproven claims of 'tit for tat', the possibility of a wave or the finger from the British Pensioner. 

2) Thai Guy Stops the car down the road - Instigating escalation

3) British Guy also stops - escalation. With a machete he walks up to and damages the Thai Guys car before returning to his car

4) Thai Guy exits his car and appears to attempt to stop the British guy from fleeing

5) The British Guy doesn't stop and drives at the Thai guy who reacts quickly, preventing impact to his legs and takes the impact on the bonnet of the car and windscreen, he bounces off the car to the side and lands on his feet. 

6) The British guy continues on (timeline uncertain) and drives to his daughters school to pick her up

7) At the School there is a confrontation between the Thai Guy and the British Guy, this is seemingly mediated by the Police Man. 

8) The Thai Guy sucker punches the British guy, knocking him out. 

9) As the British guy regains consciousness the Thai guy is heard threatening "I'll kill you!"

 

IMO: A number of these events were potentially physically life changing and even life threatening. 

3) British Guy Attacks the Thai's car with a Machete (fortunately the Thai stayed in his car)

5) British Guy drives at the Thai Guy and impacts him (fortunately he is athletic enough to take the hit and lands well, he could equally have been flipped and landed on his back, neck or head)

8) Thai Guy sucker punches the British Guy who is knocked clean out (fortunately his body instead of his head hit the curb)

 

The latest debate on this thread seems to consider 'attempted murder'.... IMO - these events could easily have been life threatening. The debate appears to regard semantics of intent etc...  I don't think either guy was attempting to Kill the other, but in their fury I doubt they were being controlled enough 'not to kill' when exacting their violent response. 

 

Both are guilty of losing control and using violence which could have been life threatening.

The British Guy used a Machete and his car as a Weapon. The Thai Guy used his fist. 

 

Both are guilty of Assault, but ultimately I feel regardless of the brutality of the 'punch', the Thai guy had a fight, the British guy Attacked with a Weapon.

 

Perhaps the British Guy's injuries and age may play a mitigating factor, but I feel that while both parties should be punished, the actions of the British guy are more punishable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe for you

But for me i will rather take the chance i can get out of the way of the car..which i know/can see is come towards me.

 

This idea of sucker punch on a blindside..when someone not even looking tho?.

Is way more dangerous and is the act of a complete scumbag

[tropo]

6 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You are far more guilty of that than anyone, you pretended that he jumped, that he dramatised being run over, and then you want to call me out for saying it as it happened, that he was purposely run over as was then clearly shown in the new video, as being an embellishment, no one is fooled by that.

You are totally off base here. I've watched the video many times. It's quite clear that as soon as he noticed the car coming at him, he jumped up, and subsequently landed on the hood. He was never in danger. You claim he was flung up and back due to the impact of the collision. The only collision was that of his body impacting the car due to the force of gravity (i.e. what goes up much come down). You also claim that the car sped off, failing to mention that the car came to a full shop just after he hit the hood. He then waited until the Thai stuntman was clear of the car before he sped off. He actually drove off, but you prefer "sped off" for more dramatic effect.

 

Taking off at that moment was in hindsight the smart thing to do. After witnessing the ferocity of his attack later on in front of a police officer (after he had some time to cool off) there was no telling what he would have been capable of doing on the street straight after the "run-over" incident with no policeman present. Driving off probably saved his life.

 

You're not only embellishing - you're fantasizing.

[tropo]

15 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Speed- lack of it- was a crucial factor.

 

They were both dangerous acts.  The punch is obviously easier to classify, it's a pure assault, and worse if it leads to serious injury or death.

 

The car incident has left many of us scratching our heads. Because the weapon is a car, some maintain that it has to be considered attempted murder, but watching the video it appears that a low speed impact cannot reasonably be regarded as a life or death issue.  There is the machete incident too.  Incredibly there does not appear sufficient evidence to conclude that the target was anything other than the car, even with the latest version of the video to emerge.

 

My general impression of Thai law-and I may be wrong here- is that Thais tend to be charged on what the actual outcome reveals.  Ordinarily then, both would be regarded as assault. 

1

Maybe I've missed a few posts, but I haven't seen one discussing the cuts/abrasion to the Thai guy's arms before he delivered his KO punch. He was showing these cuts to the police officer at the school. I guess he was telling the policeman that they were caused by the machete attack. Perhaps a Thai speaker who watched the video could tell us what he was saying.

 

What do you think caused those cuts?

 

1. Fending off the machete attack?

2. His collision with the windscreen of the car?

3. Self-mutilation to bolster his case?

 

 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, snowgard said:

For me it looks more that the thai guy jump extra little back on the car and not that the car hit him.

 

If you look it slowly you see that it's a big show from the Thai. 

 

Thank you . 

The Thai guy looks back and jumps as the guy was stopping . 

It's exactly the way scammers leap onto the bonnet and accuse people of hitting them . 

[jenny2017]

2 minutes ago, greenchair said:

 

Thank you . 

The Thai guy looks back and jumps as the guy was stopping . 

It's exactly the way scammers leap onto the bonnet and accuse people of hitting them . 

Why are you helping the old bloke? There must be a reason. How would you like it when somebody does that to you?

[tropo]

1 hour ago, snowgard said:

For me it looks more that the thai guy jump extra little back on the car and not that the car hit him.

 

If you look it slowly you see that it's a big show from the Thai. 

Hallelujah!! At last someone else notices the obvious.

 

 

[tropo]

1 minute ago, jenny2017 said:

4 minutes ago, greenchair said:

 

Thank you . 

The Thai guy looks back and jumps as the guy was stopping . 

It's exactly the way scammers leap onto the bonnet and accuse people of hitting them . 

Why are you helping the old bloke? There must be a reason. How would you like it when somebody does that to you?

LOL> That's exactly what it looks like - scammers leap for an insurance payout.

[greenchair]

5 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Why are you helping the old bloke? There must be a reason. How would you like it when somebody does that to you?

Not helping him . The video is not shown before he grabbed the machete . There's something not right here . He's 72 with a 9 year old daughter . 

That rotten little sod could let it go . 

[Darron]

I think the biggest attempted murder thing, in the whole saga, is the clear swing of the Machete aimed at the Thai guy's head. There is no denying or sugarcoating that. If someone swings a mini sword square at your head there is only one intent and that is to kill.

 

This whole situation is going to cost the Brit severely. Either in deportation and blacklisting or a big brown envelope (or in this case a small briefcase).

[mommysboy]

16 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Why are you helping the old bloke? There must be a reason. How would you like it when somebody does that to you?

There's a lot to this incident, which is best described as a trilogy, and each part seems to have at least one aspect that is a bone of contention.  I just think a charge of attempted murder for the car incident is wrong, and hence post why it can't be considered as such.

 

One might ask why you are defending the Thai guy, after all the first video shows him to be a dangerous driver, who appears hell bent on confrontation, and the last shows sheer brutality, with a willingness to come back for more, and some say even a death threat.

 

It's not a question of one versus the other, both are in the wrong. 

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, Darron said:

I think the biggest attempted murder thing, in the whole saga, is the clear swing of the Machete aimed at the Thai guy's head. There is no denying or sugarcoating that. If someone swings a mini sword square at your head there is only one intent and that is to kill.

 

This whole situation is going to cost the Brit severely. Either in deportation and blacklisting or a big brown envelope (or in this case a small briefcase).

I watched the latest video and it is still bad quality.  You just can't tell imo. To me, it looked like he certainly raised the machete in a threatening manner, rather cobra like.  Then there was a wide swing and his attention turned once more to damaging the car.  I'll try to watch again.

[tifino]

 

He'd be a handy recruit on the grass-cutting Gardening Detail in prison...

 

... be great on the Scythe

[mommysboy]

9 minutes ago, Darron said:

I think the biggest attempted murder thing, in the whole saga, is the clear swing of the Machete aimed at the Thai guy's head. There is no denying or sugarcoating that. If someone swings a mini sword square at your head there is only one intent and that is to kill.

 

This whole situation is going to cost the Brit severely. Either in deportation and blacklisting or a big brown envelope (or in this case a small briefcase).

I watched the latest video and it is still bad quality.  You just can't tell imo. To me, it looked like he certainly raised the machete in a threatening manner, rather cobra like.  Then there was a wide swing and his attention turned once more to damaging the car.  I'll try to watch again.