New unedited footage shows British pensioner taking machete swipe at Thai man

[amvet]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

I think some people on here did not watch this video carefully more than once. I actually see the foreigner making attemps to leave the situation. He finally stops the car and gets that machete pronto. 

But in fact when he goes to threaten the Thai to leave him alone, in fact if looking carefully the Thai gets out the car and attacks him. 

2.44 it is obvious he can leave if he wants to instead he gets machete and attacks.  What minute marker does he make attempt to leave?

 

[terminatorchiangmai]

First of all they were both jumping the que for turning right, after that the cat and mouse game started.

Both drivers are idiots and i will be looking forward to see how this ends at the court.

They should at least  both be fined and or jailed for being <deleted> on the roads and endangering other people.

[greenchair]

17 minutes ago, terminatorchiangmai said:

First of all they were both jumping the que for turning right, after that the cat and mouse game started.

Both drivers are idiots and i will be looking forward to see how this ends at the court.

They should at least  both be fined and or jailed for being <deleted> on the roads and endangering other people.

No, the brit was in the right lane, the Thai on the left. When the Thai couldn't move forward because of parked car he tried to jump the cue. 

[greenchair]

10 hours ago, amvet said:

Did the Thai guy go after the old man with a lethal weapon before the edit?  I think that is what the judge will ask. 

 

Anger has little to do with it.  Unless one is afraid for his life I doubt attacking with a machete is justified. 

No, the judge ask what preceded the attack and why the foreigner felt threatened. As is the law, you only need to think danger is immenant to react. The action that preceded the attack is to blame by the law. Overreaction gives the judge discretion in sentencing. The thing that preceded the attack and the person that caused the attack are considered before the actual attack to determine self defence. 

Section 67, 68, 69 criminal code. 

[Si Thea01]

3 minutes ago, terminatorchiangmai said:

First of all they were both jumping the que for turning right, after that the cat and mouse game started.

Both drivers are idiots and i will be looking forward to see how this ends at the court.

They should at least  both be fined and or jailed for being <deleted> on the roads and endangering other people.

I have watched the video a number of times and cannot see how the Farang was queue jumping.  Would you enlighten me as to how you came to that conclusion?  I do however, clearly see that the Thai driver came from the nearside through lane and turned right around the nearside of the pickup forcing him to move to the right to avoid contact, if in fact there was no contact.

 

As there is no clear vision at that specific time, nor do we know if any horn was blown or words said, then it is impossible to say who initiated what at that point, other than the Thai performing an illegal right hand turn.  If it had of been me effecting the turn, I would have backed off and let the fool go.

 

But then as they progress further along that road, the Thai appears to be the instigator but again, we don't know what occurred between the drivers during those few minutes.  The Farang could be just as guilty as the Thai, do we really know, I don't think so, just a lot assuming, up until the Thai driver caused a collision.

 

 I also noted that there were numerous locations that the Farang could have and should have backed off, even turned off but he didn't.  Given the amount of time he has lived in Thailand I say he would have known how Thais react and should have left well alone. I think most of us know the mentality of some people, therefore why risk life and limb to prove who the bigger man is. Both are fools who could not just let go.

[terminatorchiangmai]

54 minutes ago, greenchair said:

No, the brit was in the right lane, the Thai on the left. When the Thai couldn't move forward because of parked car he tried to jump the cue. 

sorry my mistake , mixed up the other pick up with the nv , you are right the Thai was jumping the que

[vukovar77]

22 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

If the old man is guilty of attempted murder, then we can say the same of the young man.

..From my impartial point of view.

 

No way.Young man only punch old thug.This is not same ,even not similar .

[amvet]

3 hours ago, greenchair said:

I think some people on here did not watch this video carefully more than once. I actually see the foreigner making attemps to leave the situation. He finally stops the car and gets that machete pronto. 

But in fact when he goes to threaten the Thai to leave him alone, in fact if looking carefully the Thai gets out the car and attacks him. 

What minute marker in the video above?

[vukovar77]

20 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Only a coward hits a 77 year old man in front of kids. 

This old thug should be severely punished for a attempted murder and Thai court should check his criminal record before if any.I recon that he can do it again if not go to jail ,cos. he is very dangerous old thug.

[amvet]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

No, the judge ask what preceded the attack and why the foreigner felt threatened. As is the law, you only need to think danger is immenant to react. The action that preceded the attack is to blame by the law. Overreaction gives the judge discretion in sentencing. The thing that preceded the attack and the person that caused the attack are considered before the actual attack to determine self defence. 

Section 67, 68, 69 criminal code. 

What minute marker in the above video caused the old guy to feel his life was in danger?

Edited October 23, 2017 by amvet

[greenchair]

9 minutes ago, amvet said:

What minute marker in the video above?

To which statement. 

The foreigner tries to leave or the foreigner gets machete 

[amvet]

8 minutes ago, greenchair said:

To which statement. 

The foreigner tries to leave or the foreigner gets machete 

What minute marker the old guy feels life is in danger and tries to leave.  He gets the machete with no car behind allowing clear exit at 2.44 I already posted that.   

[greenchair]

15 minutes ago, vukovar77 said:

This old thug should be severely punished for a attempted murder and Thai court should check his criminal record before if any.I recon that he can do it again if not go to jail ,cos. he is very dangerous old thug.

Lol. rubbish. 

He just wants to be left alone to pick up his daughter from school without being road harassed. 

[greenchair]

2 minutes ago, amvet said:

What minute marker the old guy feels life is in danger and tries to leave.  He gets the machete with no car behind allowing clear exit at 2.44 I already posted that.   

If there was no car behind. 

Where did the video come from 

[amvet]

45 minutes ago, greenchair said:

If there was no car behind. 

Where did the video come from 

You can see the old fellows car  has sufficient space to back up and leave. At what minute marker does the old man feel his life threatened and prevented from leaving? 

[mauGR1]

We could discuss on the videos forever, like a football game, and every one see what they want to see.

I am more puzzled by the old man " taking the law in his hands " so to speak.

Poor choice, he might have been under stress before the incident.. So he forgot common sense.

He could have easily parked the car, and wait quietly until the other " driver " disappeared from the horizon.

Maybe he thought that everything can be solved in the end, with a nice " Wai "  and a 500 B. fine. and damages.

A bad case of " going native " ?

The " damages" will probably be expensive.

Some people see it like a " cat who plays with the mouse " situation.

I don't know what to think, the whole world is going mad.

 

[Kadilo]

We could discuss on the videos forever, like a football game, and every one see what they want to see.
I am more puzzled by the old man " taking the law in his hands " so to speak.
Poor choice, he might have been under stress before the incident.. So he forgot common sense.
He could have easily parked the car, and wait quietly until the other " driver " disappeared from the horizon.
Maybe he thought that everything can be solved in the end, with a nice " Wai "  and a 500 B. fine. and damages.
A bad case of " going native " ?
The " damages" will probably be expensive.
Some people see it like a " cat who plays with the mouse " situation.
I don't know what to think, the whole world is going mad.
 

I’ve said the same before he had ample time to move over, calm down and diffuse the situation. Sadly road rage kicked in and he decided to take maters into his own hands. I would be surprised if it’s the first time.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[amvet]

38 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

We could discuss on the videos forever, like a football game, and every one see what they want to see.

I am more puzzled by the old man " taking the law in his hands " so to speak.

Poor choice, he might have been under stress before the incident.. So he forgot common sense.

He could have easily parked the car, and wait quietly until the other " driver " disappeared from the horizon.

Maybe he thought that everything can be solved in the end, with a nice " Wai "  and a 500 B. fine. and damages.

A bad case of " going native " ?

The " damages" will probably be expensive.

Some people see it like a " cat who plays with the mouse " situation.

I don't know what to think, the whole world is going mad.

 

Don't you find in humorous that first you wrote, " Just watch the video."

 And then you wrote, " Perhaps you should watch the video again."

 

After the video is posted and it's obvious the old man is the aggressor with a deadly weapon and made no attempt to flee.

 

Now you write, " We could discuss on the videos forever, like a football game, and every one see what they want to see."

 

I would suggest the video is like an instant replay in sports that allows the referees to check a call and find out if they were correct or not. 

 

The eyewitnesses (referees) make a call and the video is watched to confirm or reverse the on the field opinion.  In this case it shows the old man had an opportunity to leave but he got a machete out of his trunk and attacked the younger Thai fellow. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by amvet

[mauGR1]

@ kadilo & amvet

You both say that he had opportunity to leave, but i am not fully agreeing on that.

It's obvious that at some time the old man felt trapped. The young man didn't let him leave.

Somebody would have parked the car and waited, but the old guy was going to school to pick up his daughter ( someone pls correct me if i am wrong ) , and off he snapped.

He's 77 y.o. afaik, and he made some wrong choice, but think twice before putting all the blame on him.

 

[amvet]

55 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

@ kadilo & amvet

You both say that he had opportunity to leave, but i am not fully agreeing on that.

It's obvious that at some time the old man felt trapped. The young man didn't let him leave.

Somebody would have parked the car and waited, but the old guy was going to school to pick up his daughter ( someone pls correct me if i am wrong ) , and off he snapped.

He's 77 y.o. afaik, and he made some wrong choice, but think twice before putting all the blame on him.

Not obvious.  Watch the video.  At 2.44 he had ample time and space to leave not trapped at all.  If I'm wrong list on the video where he was trapped we have all the facts that are in existence.  You are making stuff up.  The man in the moon could have held him captive too but if it's not on the video no one is going to believe you least of all me.  I'm open minded.  Just watch the video and write the minute marker where he was trapped and he needed a machete to extricate himself.    

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, amvet said:

Not obvious.  Watch the video.  At 2.44 he had ample time and space to leave not trapped at all.  If I'm wrong list on the video where he was trapped we have all the facts that are in existence.  You are making stuff up.  The man in the moon could have held him captive too but if it's not on the video no one is going to believe you least of all me.  I'm open minded.  Just watch the video and write the minute marker where he was trapped and he needed a machete to extricate himself.    

I am not going to watch that video again, we can agree to disagree.

[amvet]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I am not going to watch that video again, we can agree to disagree.

Didn't you write, "Just watch the video."

 And then you wrote, " Perhaps you should watch the video again."

Seems a bit disingenuous of you dosen't it? 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, amvet said:

Didn't you write, "Just watch the video."

 And then you wrote, " Perhaps you should watch the video again."

Seems a bit disingenuous of you dosen't it? 

Things change, deal with that :)

 

[Si Thea01]

If things keep going the way they are, it will soon be machetes at 20 paces with the girls throwing and the boys catching.

[tingtongtourist]

Some saying why he dont stop.

The old guy was to get his daughter why should he have to stop or go in the other direction?

Especiallt Thailand where traffic can make your scedule very late.

 

Then the Thai guy repeatedly is trying to nose in front of him to force him to a stop

 

What sort of ****wit does that?

 

Clearly that was the first introduction of any hostile and threatening behaviour, trying to force someone to stop.

 

No wonder he come out with a machete.

 

Someone should make e a survey of who carry a form of weapon in the car?

Id estimate

Thai man 80-90%

Farang probably 40%

[amvet]

38 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

Some saying why he dont stop.

The old guy was to get his daughter why should he have to stop or go in the other direction?

Especiallt Thailand where traffic can make your scedule very late.

 

Then the Thai guy repeatedly is trying to nose in front of him to force him to a stop

 

What sort of ****wit does that?

 

Clearly that was the first introduction of any hostile and threatening behaviour, trying to force someone to stop.

 

No wonder he come out with a machete.

 

Someone should make e a survey of who carry a form of weapon in the car?

Id estimate

Thai man 80-90%

Farang probably 40%

A person blocks you with his car.  OK turn around and pick up your child by another road.  Acceptable behavior is not getting out a machete and hacking the other person up.  What did the old dude think? I'll just hack this guy up and leave the bloody parts in the street and no one will notice? 

Edited October 23, 2017 by amvet

[mommysboy]

8 hours ago, amvet said:

A person blocks you with his car.  OK turn around and pick up your child by another road.  Acceptable behavior is not getting out a machete and hacking the other person up.  What did the old dude think? I'll just hack this guy up and leave the bloody parts in the street and no one will notice? 

Did he hack him up then?  We don't know what he was thinking, but the evidence suggests he wasn't thinking at all, or was thinking about smashing the car up, which is what he did.

 

I've been looking in to attempted murder.  It's a complex law even in USA or UK, but the main issue is usually intent, as well as establishing that a valid attempt has taken place. Smashing up the car, and maybe, perhaps, possibly lining up for a swipe that may, might have, wished it had actually happened is rather a dodgy starting point, and intent in this case would be very difficult to prove.  Usually, with attempted murder there is evidence of prior thought- something cast iron like going out and buying a gun specifically, or lining up a plan.  Then there is evidence of the plan being initiated actively. 

 

Second degree attempted murder is possible (if such a thing exist in Thai law).  This is more appropriate here, but again there needs to be a definitive attempt, lethally intended, or perhaps just a reckless strike designed to cause grievous injury, and not just the suggestion of either on a poor quality video.  The evidence unerringly suggests the attack was on the car.

 

Regarding the driving incident: whether it can even be deemed a potentially murderous act really depends on whether driving a car at low speed can be considered an act likely to inflict lethal injury.  And then we are back to intent.  It's just as likely it was a genuine accident (of sorts).  Telling for me was the car appeared to drive away at low speed, and upon realising there had been a collision the old nut hit the brakes.

 

Many other lesser offences might be aprropriate, assuming the defence outlined by gc isn't accepted.  Attempted murder?  No, not imo.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by mommysboy

[stanleycoin]

Reckon the old guy has been no stranger to fighting over 

his life time.  his just old now and in Thailand, still giving it large.

As for gardening tools,   well,   not seen many gardens in the back of cars, in the last few years. he was bang at it.

He was also lucky the cops were there and plenty of people around.

otherwise he would be dead or at best in a hospital bed.

Put the Thai guy in jail as well,  no good people in this road rage incident. 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by stanleycoin

[greenchair]

11 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Did he hack him up then?  We don't know what he was thinking, but the evidence suggests he wasn't thinking at all, or was thinking about smashing the car up, which is what he did.

 

I've been looking in to attempted murder.  It's a complex law even in USA or UK, but the main issue is usually intent, as well as establishing that a valid attempt has taken place. Smashing up the car, and maybe, perhaps, possibly lining up for a swipe that may, might have, wished it had actually happened is rather a dodgy starting point, and intent in this case would be very difficult to prove.  Usually, with attempted murder there is evidence of prior thought- something cast iron like going out and buying a gun specifically, or lining up a plan.  Then there is evidence of the plan being initiated actively. 

 

Second degree attempted murder is possible (if such a thing exist in Thai law).  This is more appropriate here, but again there needs to be a definitive attempt, lethally intended, or perhaps just a reckless strike designed to cause grievous injury, and not just the suggestion of either on a poor quality video.  The evidence unerringly suggests the attack was on the car.

 

Regarding the driving incident: whether it can even be deemed a potentially murderous act really depends on whether driving a car at low speed can be considered an act likely to inflict lethal injury.  And then we are back to intent.  It's just as likely it was a genuine accident (of sorts).  Telling for me was the car appeared to drive away at low speed, and upon realising there had been a collision the old nut hit the brakes.

 

Many other lesser offences might be aprropriate, assuming the defence outlined by gc isn't accepted.  Attempted murder?  No, not imo.

 

 

 

 

My neighbour drove his car right into me all on video. You see the guy walk to the car and drive it across the road right into me. 

The judge said, we do not know what the driver was thinking at the time so we cannot prove his intention was to hit me or frighten me. 

The charge in the case was assault with a weapon. 

Attempted murder is pathetic. 

[tingtongtourist]

19 hours ago, amvet said:

A person blocks you with his car.  OK turn around and pick up your child by another road.  Acceptable behavior is not getting out a machete and hacking the other person up.  What did the old dude think? I'll just hack this guy up and leave the bloody parts in the street and no one will notice? 

Thats funny. Who gets hacked up?

 

The Brit use the machette as a defence to NOT get his head kicked in. Thats the way i saw it.

 

If you look ( the video not good)

even though the Brit has the mid, the Thai lunges at him, then he Brit backs away and takes a few chops off the back of the car.

 

He clearly has no intention to harm to the person..and at least he show some restraint

 

Unlike ...errrrr some others

that would have no second thought about using the machette and making a bit of farang yang