Is Thailand Value for money

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

Right.  So let's see.  Low energy microwaves in Moscow.  Perhaps the same in Cuba.  Same health effects.  But right.  Nada!  Zip.

Do you understand that no one in the American Embassy in Moscow was reporting any ill health effects at all? Do you get that?  So where do you get off claiming "same health effects"? 

 

[craigt3365]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Total nonsense. Just man up and admit that your connection was non existent.

These cops might not agree with your assessment.  Lots more stuff like this that we didn't know before or can't thoroughly explain.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8213849

 

https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-01-09-cops-radar-guns-emit-36-ghz-frequency-radiation-that-causes-testicular-cancer-who-knew.html

Quote

Cops’ radar guns emit 36 GHz frequency radiation that causes testicular cancer – who knew?

 

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Do you understand that no one in the American Embassy in Moscow was reporting any ill health effects at all? Do you get that?  So where do you get off claiming "same health effects"? 

 

My father smoked cigarettes for 30 years with no ill health effects at all.  In the end, it's what killed him.  Admit it, science today isn't perfect.  The microwaves were real.  The effects?  Who knows.

 

http://emfrefugee.blogspot.com/2012/06/background-to-lilienfeld-study-and.html

Quote

They were tested for abnormalities in chromosomes and 20 out of the 37 were above the normal range among the exposed, compared to 2/7 among the non-exposed. In the final report the scientists urged a repeat and follow-up study which was clinically indicated for 18 persons, but was not undertaken by the end of the contract period, June 30, 1969. The evidence of chromosome changes was strong enough to have triggered clinical guidelines that would have recommended ceasing reproductive activity until the condition had improved.

 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

My father smoked cigarettes for 30 years with no ill health effects at all.  In the end, it's what killed him.  Admit it, science today isn't perfect.  The microwaves were real.  The effects?  Who knows.

 

http://emfrefugee.blogspot.com/2012/06/background-to-lilienfeld-study-and.html

 

You just made this claim: "So let's see.  Low energy microwaves in Moscow.  Perhaps the same in Cuba.  Same health effects.  But right.  Nada!"

You asserted that there were the "same health effects." Now you're saying "Who knows". You just can't admit you're wrong, ever, can you?

[craigt3365]

11 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You just made this claim: "So let's see.  Low energy microwaves in Moscow.  Perhaps the same in Cuba.  Same health effects.  But right.  Nada!"

You asserted that there were the "same health effects." Now you're saying "Who knows". You just can't admit you're wrong, ever, can you?

Maybe this will help you.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2017/09/the_cold_war_incident_that_could_hold_clues_about_what_s_happening_to_u.html

 

Quote

 

Something in the Air

A Cold War espionage incident could hold clues about what’s afflicting U.S. diplomats in Cuba.

 

In the 1970s, the Soviet government started bombarding the U.S. Embassy in Moscow with microwave beams—which, an Associated Press story at the time reported, were causing health problems among the employees.

 

You can apologize any time.

[stevenl]

And Craig's hole gets deeper and deeper.

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Maybe this will help you.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2017/09/the_cold_war_incident_that_could_hold_clues_about_what_s_happening_to_u.html

 

You can apologize any time.

You've got a reference to an AP article but not the article itself. And you didn't even cite the alleged information in the article before instead basing it on a foreign policy article that in no way supported what you contended.

What I've got is a scientific debunking of it here:

Microwaves in the cold war: the Moscow embassy study and its interpretation. Review of a retrospective cohort study

The extensive study reports on mortality and morbidity, recorded on medical records and by regular examinations, and on self-reported symptoms. Exposure levels were low, but similar or greater than present-day exposures to radiofrequencies sources such as cell phone base stations. The conclusions were that no adverse health effects of the radiation were shown.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3509929/

 

And here's a summary from the Washington Post

Moscow Microwaves: No Harm Seen

"Personnel working at the American embassy in Moscow between 1953 and 1976 suffered no apparent ill effect from the Soviet Union's microwave bombardment of the embassy during those 23 years."

"That was the conclusion of the Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health, where more than 100 people spent more than two years in an exhaustive study of the health of the more than 2,000 Americans who worked at the U.S. embassy in Moscow from 1953 to 1976 when the Soviet secret police beamed microwaves at the building to tap telephones and interfere with U.S. telephone and cable traffic."

"With very few exceptions, there was no difference in the health of these people," Johns Hopkins' Dr. Abraham Lilienfield, who directed the study at the request of the State Department, told a news conference yesterday. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1978/11/21/moscow-microwaves-no-harm-seen/7a4b045f-e2ff-401e-a1f5-34e748d4cf13/?utm_term=.6e2a53f37785

 

 

 

[partington]

 

 

It is simple: no device able to produce these health effects is known. The health effects are so varied and unconnected [people were claiming not to be able to remember certain words(!)] that a psychological explanation immediately suggested itself.  

 

Supposing that  the use of a "sonic weapon", which is not known to exist, is a better explanation than psychosomatic effects of stress, which are well documented and understood, is a personal choice you make that is not backed up by any evidence.

 

However one news site I trust has a story that the Russians are sending a top-level weapons team to Helsinki with a newly developed device that will give all the diplomats in the US Embassy there athletes' foot.

Edited October 26, 2017 by partington

[ilostmypassword]

26 minutes ago, stevenl said:

And Craig's hole gets deeper and deeper.

I think by now he must have formidable upper body strength.

[ChouDoufu]

there is an even better explanation.

 

the first "victims" were intelligence operatives

using diplomatic credentials as cover.  their

injuries may (or may not) be real.  later reports

by real diplomats or family members, of vague

symptoms, could be unrelated or nothing at all.

 

would assume the new embassy had some

newly-installed spy gear improperly calibrated.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

And Craig's hole gets deeper and deeper.

I just linked to an article.  As others have done.  Not sure how that's digging a hole.  Nobody knows what happened.  Nobody.  It's just speculation.  Good gosh.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

I just linked to an article.  As others have done.  Not sure how that's digging a hole.  Nobody knows what happened.  Nobody.  It's just speculation.  Good gosh.

Some read the articles they link to, others not. And you just linked to a few that were completely undermining your own statements.

 

But good to see that something is happening, you have just moved from 'the consensus is that another foreign power was at work' to 'nobody knows what is happening'.

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Some read the articles they link to, others not. And you just linked to a few that were completely undermining your own statements.

 

But good to see that something is happening, you have just moved from 'the consensus is that another foreign power was at work' to 'nobody knows what is happening'.

I've said that many times.  Science isn't sophisticated enough to really know what's going on.  But people in these embassies have reported ill effects.  No denying that.  Though some may try....

[craigt3365]

Another report saying those in Moscow ill.

 

https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/reveh.ahead-of-print/reveh-2015-0016/www.degruyter.com/view/j/reveh.ahead-of-print/reveh-2015-0016/reveh-2015-0016.xml

Quote

The Soviets irradiated the US Embassy in Moscow with microwaves during the period 1953–1975, and while no convincing evidence of elevated cancer rates was reported, there were reports of “microwave illness”. Officials passed these complaints off as being due to anxiety, not effects of the microwave exposure.

You two guys just don't want to admit this. LOL

[BuaBS]

The question that nobody seems to ask is : Why Cuba or better why ONLY in Cuba? If such a "weapon" exists , would they want to use it on many more US embassies ? Everybody knows that US embassies sure have some diplomats and personel , but are regional "inteligence" (read CIA) bases .

[attrayant]

And now since the bottom of the barrel has officially been scraped clean (i.e. Natural "News" has been used as a cite), I'm afraid that's the end of any hope I had for this discussion.

 

My money is on the most likely and least far-fetched explanation which is mass psychogenic illness.

 

https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/state-departments-claims-about-sonic-attack-diplomats-cuba-dont-add-up/

[attrayant]

6 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Yet, there are reports cell phone signals might cause brain cancer.

 

No, there aren't.  Unless you're counting people who've made claims based only on personal belief. In which case, There are reports that the Earth is flat, too.

 

6 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Guaranteed, we don't have the scientific knowledge to know for sure.

 

Yes, we do.