SSI benefits and living in Thailand

[wrassell]

The Social Security administration in the US is ok with people living abroad and receiving regular social security benefits with no restrictions, but not with supplemental security income. They state that you must reside inside the US and may only be outside the US for less than 30 days at a time.  They say if you are outside the country for a longer period that they will not pay you for that month or months. My question is how would they ever know, do they share information with INS. So as soon as you fly out does the Social Security Administration instantly receive a red flag in their computers. Really do they even care unless someone drops a dime on you, and then they have to act on it, or you make it obvious to them. I would really like to just stay in Thailand for a few months at a time mostly in the winter months maybe even for as long as 6 months at a time. Flying over to stay less than a month at a time would almost not be worth it. It would also be really hard to get back to find they are going to deny you benefits for the six months that you stayed in Thailand.

My main question is does the Social Security Administration have access to or share immigration data wherein they know when you come and go. Then also my second question is do they really care that much as long as you stay under their radar.

[Pib]

 

Quote

My main question is does the Social Security Administration have access to or share immigration data wherein they know when you come and go. Then also my second question is do they really care that much as long as you stay under their radar.

 

Can't really address the first question, but regarding the second question obviously they care otherwise they wouldn't have the 30 day notification requirement.   

 

Since SSI is meant for people with limited income/resources who are disabled, blind, or age 65 or older I guess they figure if you can travel (go on vacation) outside the U.S. for more than 30 days then maybe your income is not so limited and maybe the person is not so disabled...and maybe he/she can't get proper/accepted medical care outside the which would just make an disability worst, lessen chances for obtaining health improvement/increasing their income, etc.  Maybe time for a review of the the person's SSI status...he/she no longer requires SSI, etc.

 

You have probably already reviewed the Social Security Agency SSI Home Page, but in case you haven't  here it is.  Bunch of info here.

https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/text-understanding-ssi.htm

 

And from one section of above page it talks some possible sanctions if they do find out.  Plus I expect they might even review your current eligibility for continued SSI benefits but that would probably be taking an extreme action.   

 

 

Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure.  And what data resources the SSA can possibly access regarding your current status, location, etc., is something I just don't know.....and I'm sure you find equally vague and varying opinions from people/website from googling to include responses like, Don't ask a question you don't want to hear the answer to.  

 

Good luck in what you decide.

 

 

[Pib]

According to below SSA Program Operations Manual System (POMS) there is some specific data sharing between the Dept of Homeland Security, Customs and Border Protection, and some other agencies.  POMS is basically a SSA "regulation" telling SSA folks how to implement SSA programs. 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0203313095

 

But whether this data sharing includes SSA receiving exit/re-entry notifications which means the SSA would need to be also scanning/evaluating such data on a HUGE/MASS scale considering all the exit/reentries occurring in the U.S. daily is far beyond me.   Big difference between some data sharing occurring and the data actually being scanned/evaluated for certain things.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Langsuan Man]

As Dirty Harry once famously said:   Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?

 

IRS has no way of checking your claimed itemized deductions on your tax filing but they keep you honest with the threat of an audit and the draconian punishments if you get caught

 

So too with Social Security,  how much will you loose if you get caught claiming and receiving SSI that you are not entitled to overseas

 

As PIB states above these government agencies share information about you all the time.  How else does Medicare know what your AGI is so that they can convert it into their MAGI if they don't get the information from the IRS or how does  the State Department know if your a deadbeat and not paying child support so they won't renew your passport 

[wrassell]

Do ya feel lucky, great analogy, love it. I would guess if you went to Mexico, US immigration doesn't even check who is leaving. many expats and retirees live down there. could be an option. Just exploring options I do qualify for social security benefits, but what SSI would kick in would be a great help. Thanks for the input thus far...

 

[Langsuan Man]

16 hours ago, wrassell said:

I would guess if you went to Mexico, US immigration doesn't even check who is leaving. many expats and retirees live down there. could be an option

US Immigration records are just one way for the government to know where you  are

 

In another life I was in Federal Law Enforcement and the first thing we would do when starting an investigation was to check the subject's credit report,  you would be amazed at the amount of information the government can get from Trans Union, Equifax, etc.  

[taxout]

Here're a couple of the instructions a Social Security agent follows after discovering you've been outside the U.S. for more than 30 days:

 

"Explore unstated income when appropriate. For example, the recipient needed additional income for travel costs and to maintain a home while outside the U.S.

 

"If a recipient leaves the U.S. without reporting the change and continues to receive SSI payments through a U.S. address, consider fraud development."

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0502301225

[1FinickyOne]

Just follow the rules - you will sleep better and enjoy your life. Any info is available in your passport and easily checked. I used to run into other issues as well. If I came here for more than 90 days, my house would be considered abandoned and my home owners insurance would no longer be valid. 

 

If you have any questions, just go into your local SS office - mine was helpful. 

 

Good luck.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

In the 51st state where I live Canada border agency actually shares info with Canada revenue agency and they know exactly how long I have been out of the country as a non resident for tax purposes.

 

Be aware that the false safety of not getting caught in the first few years and perhaps even as long as a decade is just an excuse to slap you with maximum penalty and interest.

 

In short, yes....it's very easy for them to figure out where you live.

[thailand49]

Can I ask something?  What is meant by Supplemental security income?

[Wake Up]

Can you imagine the headlines —USA pays Supplemental Security Income benefits to world traveler—

 

 Personally I hope you get caught as I help pay the taxes for your benefits and I hope the USA enforces the law and it sounds like you are trying or abusing the system. 

[Wake Up]

Give me your name and I will drop the dime on you. 

[Foozool]

3 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

In the 51st state where I live Canada border agency actually shares info with Canada revenue agency and they know exactly how long I have been out of the country as a non resident for tax purposes.

 

Be aware that the false safety of not getting caught in the first few years and perhaps even as long as a decade is just an excuse to slap you with maximum penalty and interest.

 

In short, yes....it's very easy for them to figure out where you live.

Don't make up what you don't know. 

Are you an American ? 

I'm sure you are not. 

 

On 12/12/2017 at 6:45 PM, wrassell said:

My main question is does the Social Security Administration have access to or share immigration data wherein they know when you come and go. Then also my second question is do they really care that much as long as you stay under their radar.

 

It was just matter of luck until 4 or 5 years ago. SS checked randomly. Ever since I'm not sure if things have changed. This is the way they check most: your doctor visits and using your Medical/Medicare account. If you have not used it for long it will becomes suspicious. There could be some other factors as well such as "not using your account for medications. 

They just cut the supplemental. What ever the extra supplemental amonth was already paid has to be paid back by monthly deductions (could be $100-200) from monthly pay checks. 

Penalty could be waved by visiting SS office (1st timers). 

Now it is all up to you to take the risks.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Foozool

[elnet1]

On 12/12/2017 at 4:33 AM, Pib said:

 

 

Can't really address the first question, but regarding the second question obviously they care otherwise they wouldn't have the 30 day notification requirement.   

 

Since SSI is meant for people with limited income/resources who are disabled, blind, or age 65 or older I guess they figure if you can travel (go on vacation) outside the U.S. for more than 30 days then maybe your income is not so limited and maybe the person is not so disabled...and maybe he/she can't get proper/accepted medical care outside the which would just make an disability worst, lessen chances for obtaining health improvement/increasing their income, etc.  Maybe time for a review of the the person's SSI status...he/she no longer requires SSI, etc.

 

You have probably already reviewed the Social Security Agency SSI Home Page, but in case you haven't  here it is.  Bunch of info here.

https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/text-understanding-ssi.htm

 

And from one section of above page it talks some possible sanctions if they do find out.  Plus I expect they might even review your current eligibility for continued SSI benefits but that would probably be taking an extreme action.   

 

 

Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure.  And what data resources the SSA can possibly access regarding your current status, location, etc., is something I just don't know.....and I'm sure you find equally vague and varying opinions from people/website from googling to include responses like, Don't ask a question you don't want to hear the answer to.  

 

Good luck in what you decide.

 

 

Not on any "program" but it seems with like the meager amount doled out that the only way to really live would be to go to a country with a lower cost of living. I mean if you can get rent for like $100 and eat for another $300 in SEA or South America, rather than living where rent is like $1200+ and food is another $500-600 a month, which is common in America, which is way more than SSI pays.

[Ken]

15 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

In the 51st state where I live Canada border agency actually shares info with Canada revenue agency and they know exactly how long I have been out of the country as a non resident for tax purposes.

 

Be aware that the false safety of not getting caught in the first few years and perhaps even as long as a decade is just an excuse to slap you with maximum penalty and interest.

 

In short, yes....it's very easy for them to figure out where you live.

51 st state???  What state would that be?

[taxout]

"In the 51st state where I live -- Canada -- border agency actually shares info with Canada revenue agency . . . "

[Ken]

11 minutes ago, taxout said:

"In the 51st state where I live -- Canada -- border agency actually shares info with Canada revenue agency . . . "

And here I thought the 51st state was Mexico.  Go figure.  

[wrassell]

12 hours ago, elnet1 said:

Not on any "program" but it seems with like the meager amount doled out that the only way to really live would be to go to a country with a lower cost of living. I mean if you can get rent for like $100 and eat for another $300 in SEA or South America, rather than living where rent is like $1200+ and food is another $500-600 a month, which is common in America, which is way more than SSI pays.

Which is the problem, with the small amount some people are awarded it is very hard to live in the US. There may be many reasons some people are awarded so little from SS. Some people may have worked construction where it is common to be paid under the table, it may have been at the time take it or hit the road and starve choice. I know a person that had to care for his mother for 15 years until she passed on, which significantly reduced his SS. I know a guy that lived the last 20 years of his life living in a 20 foot trailer as that was all he could afford on SS. I also know of 2 individuals that lost all of their life savings during the 2008 real estate melt down. Not bad people, just people that didn't have the right job for whatever reason. 

Lots of good feedback here I am sure it will be helpful to some that share the prospect of living in the US on a very small amount of money. Thanks

[XBroker]

On 12/16/2017 at 7:53 AM, Wake Up said:

Can you imagine the headlines —USA pays Supplemental Security Income benefits to world traveler—

 

 Personally I hope you get caught as I help pay the taxes for your benefits and I hope the USA enforces the law and it sounds like you are trying or abusing the system. 

SSI is supposed to be for people who have little to no income or assests and cannot work, and who don't qualify for SSDI if I remember correctly. So,  how does someone who's supposed to be broke afford to go to Thailand.

[mogandave]

On 12/16/2017 at 7:29 PM, thailand49 said:

Can I ask something?  What is meant by Supplemental security income?

welfare

[thailand49]

42 minutes ago, mogandave said:

welfare

Thanks,

[Langsuan Man]

On 12/16/2017 at 7:29 PM, thailand49 said:

Can I ask something?  What is meant by Supplemental security income?

Quote

The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program pays benefits to disabled adults and children who have limited income and resources. SSI benefitsalso are payable to people 65 and older without disabilities who meet the financial limits.

source:https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/ssi/

[mogandave]

5 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

source:https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/ssi/

Exactly

[Wake Up]

On 12/17/2017 at 12:02 PM, wrassell said:

Which is the problem, with the small amount some people are awarded it is very hard to live in the US. There may be many reasons some people are awarded so little from SS. Some people may have worked construction where it is common to be paid under the table, it may have been at the time take it or hit the road and starve choice. I know a person that had to care for his mother for 15 years until she passed on, which significantly reduced his SS. I know a guy that lived the last 20 years of his life living in a 20 foot trailer as that was all he could afford on SS. I also know of 2 individuals that lost all of their life savings during the 2008 real estate melt down. Not bad people, just people that didn't have the right job for whatever reason. 

Lots of good feedback here I am sure it will be helpful to some that share the prospect of living in the US on a very small amount of money. Thanks

Share the prospect of me and other taxpayers paying your way to Thailand to live when most folks cannot afford a trip to Thailand. Rationalize all you want but that is why we have laws and rules and I hope every USA American living outside the USA (in Thailand) violating the welfare laws gets caught and lives free in a USA prison. 

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Share the prospect of me and other taxpayers paying your way to Thailand to live when most folks cannot afford a trip to Thailand. Rationalize all you want but that is why we have laws and rules and I hope every USA American living outside the USA (in Thailand) violating the welfare laws gets caught and lives free in a USA prison. 

Ironically, the cost of the prison would be massively higher than the SSI check! 

[elnet1]

Currently, you have to "self-certify" under penalty of law....

 

 

 

The Social Security Administration (SSA) could potentially prevent hundreds of millions of dollars in overpayments by using travel data from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to identify Supplemental Security Income (SSI) recipients outside the United States, according to a recent report from SSA’s Office of the Inspector General (OIG).

 

SSI recipients are required to report to SSA changes that may affect their eligibility or payment amounts—including departures from the United States. Recipients are generally not eligible for payments once they are outside the U.S. for 30 consecutive days. However, some recipients may fail to report this information to SSA because they want to continue receiving SSI—and SSA is not currently able to identify these individuals in other ways.

 

[Wake Up]

On 1/21/2018 at 3:47 PM, Jingthing said:

Ironically, the cost of the prison would be massively higher than the SSI check! 

Very true. But the cost of prison is almost always higher than the cost of the crime. But prison tends to make the marginal comply with the law. Welfare fraud is a theft of public money. The criminals can rationalize the poor me and I ain’t hurting anyone all they want but they are wrong.  I can’t think of a more pathetic life than a welfare fraud criminal convincing himself he is entitled. 

[Jingthing]

Very true. But the cost of prison is almost always higher than the cost of the crime. But prison tends to make the marginal comply with the law. Welfare fraud is a theft of public money. The criminals can rationalize the poor me and I ain’t hurting anyone all they want but they are wrong.  I can’t think of a more pathetic life than a welfare fraud criminal convincing himself he is entitled. 

I think it's a pathetic society that imprisons such a huge percentage of its population often a result of the "crime" of being poor.

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[Rhys]

OK....so here is an example...  you have not lived in the USA for over 20-25 years, and you would like to file at 62 years. 6 months, does that mean you have any type of funds coming your way.... Those quick calculators on the SSI WWW cut out saying they don't accept because of there enough credits... 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Rhys said:

OK....so here is an example...  you have not lived in the USA for over 20-25 years, and you would like to file at 62 years. 6 months, does that mean you have any type of funds coming your way.... Those quick calculators on the SSI WWW cut out saying they don't accept because of there enough credits... 

Impossible to tell you unless you contact their office. I got letters in the mail sent to Thailand in recent years saying I had  enough credits along with benefit estimates which I already knew from years back when I get similar letters in the USA.

 

You're talking here about old age social security benefits. There is no legal issue living abroad and getting those. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Jingthing