SURVEY: Are you liberal or conservative?

[bendejo]

liberal as in "live and let live" attitude, treating people (in general) decently, ok with me.

 

Liberal, with a capital L, means supporting the issues of the Liberal cause at the moment (anti-bigotry, gender rights, et al) and subscribing to the set sympathies or else be ostracized as a "____ist," depending on your area of disagreement/egregiousness.  Do not think for a moment that only conservatives have the ability to be aggressively authoritarian.  The traits of liberal mentioned in the first sentence of this post need not be subscribed to by a Liberal.

 

I would think it would be similar with conservatives and Conservatives, but I ain't going there.

 

 

[Zenwind]

I can vote for None of the above political labels.  It is all too complicated for just a handful of labels. 

 

I am a libertarian. 

 

Look up the Nolan Chart, which supplements the simple Left/Right dimension (which mostly measures one’s attitude toward change) with the added dimension of Authoritarian/Libertarian (measuring one’s attitude toward degrees of control by government versus personal liberty for all).  Many on both the Left and the Right are in the Authoritarian region, but many on the Left and Right are also in the Libertarian region.  And many are in mixed territory according to their thinking on the many diverse issues. 

 

If you are in town, we have a monthly Bangkok Libertarian MeetUp group every Third Thursday of the month.  Bourbon Street Restaurant, Ekkamai.  

[riclag]

I'm with the not enough options opinion, 

 

Independent . Free to choose! 

 

I'm leaning Conservative/ Libertarian . I'm definitely not with the side that insult and degrade me because of a different point of view.   

[Jingthing]

Those words mean very different things in different countries in different eras.

 

But I did pick very liberal because of my support for these policies in my home country.

 

-- Universal minimum income (as menial jobs get automated that is the only civilized way to go)

 

-- Universal basic clean and safe housing in mini units (you want better then work for it)

 

--  Move quickly away from private car culture. It's happening anyway, but speed it up.

 

-- Universal health care

 

-- College and after college free, based on merit/performance but aggressive diversion to vocational studies as well. 

 

-- Free high speed net access for all

 

-- Aggressive policies to greatly reduce economic equality. Reasonable class differences are normal and needed, but in the USA it has become OBSCENE and the current regime is making it much worse. 

 

-- Social issues libertarian

 

-- Legalize all drugs but focus on education and addiction prevention/treatment as well

 

-- Voting, MANDATORY, like Australia, fine those that don't vote, and prison sentences for anyone obstructing voting of citizens. 

 

-- Immigration. Not so liberal. Open borders are not acceptable. Adopt a humane policy of gradually legalizing current law abiding undocumented people, deport the criminals, and start over with more of a merit based system like Australia. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Jingthing

[Catoni]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Those words mean very different things in different countries in different eras.

 

But I did pick very liberal because of my support for these policies in my home country.

 

-- Universal minimum income (as menial jobs get automated that is the only civilized way to go)

 

-- Universal basic clean and safe housing in mini units (you want better then work for it)

 

--  Move quickly away from private car culture. It's happening anyway, but speed it up.

 

-- Universal health care

 

-- College and after college free, based on merit/performance but aggressive diversion to vocational studies as well. 

 

-- Free high speed net access for all

 

-- Aggressive policies to greatly reduce economic equality. Reasonable class differences are normal and needed, but in the USA it has become OBSCENE and the current regime is making it much worse. 

 

-- Social issues libertarian

 

-- Legalize all drugs but focus on education and addiction prevention/treatment as well

 

-- Voting, MANDATORY, like Australia, fine those that don't vote, and prison sentences for anyone obstructing voting of citizens. 

 

-- Immigration. Not so liberal. Open borders are not acceptable. Adopt a humane policy of gradually legalizing current law abiding undocumented people, deport the criminals, and start over with more of a merit based system like Australia. 

     Wow..... who are the lucky ones that are made to pay for all of that free stuff ? ?

 

    How do you get to be ones of the lucky ones who get to receive it all ? ? 

 

   Do you take money by force of law away from those who earn it... and give it to those who have not earned it?

 

   Or do you borrow from the next few generations for them to worry about someday finally having paying for it?

 

  Just curious..   

 

    

[canuckamuck]

Question should be:

Are you a useful idiot and patsy for the cultural Marxists?

or

Are you determined to resist the deconstruction of western civilization?

Edited December 18, 2017 by canuckamuck

[Mac98]

A) you want to tell others what to think and how to behave based on political correctness.

you want Institutions to tell others what to think and how to behave based on political correctness.

C) you want Institutions to tell others what to think and how to behave based on whatever interpretation of the Bible is in vogue this month.

D) you want to tell other people what to think and how to behave based on whatever interpretation of the Bible you have made up this month.

[Jingthing]

32 minutes ago, Catoni said:

     Wow..... who are the lucky ones that are made to pay for all of that free stuff ? ?

 

    How do you get to be ones of the lucky ones who get to receive it all ? ? 

 

   Do you take money by force of law away from those who earn it... and give it to those who have not earned it?

 

   Or do you borrow from the next few generations for them to worry about someday finally having paying for it?

 

  Just curious..   

 

    

That's a very complex political question.

But more advance nations are already seeing the wisdom of a basic minimum income.

The automation of menial jobs is already happening and it will accelerate. 

Obviously the focus needs to be on preparing youth for work that can't be automated, and those classes of work will be shrinking over time, so it's a moving target. 

It's really a matter of balance.

The way the  USA is going with economic inequality and the future of automation, you're looking at a dystopian fascist future of creating a MASSIVE hungry, violent, desperate underclass (easily over half the population) that will threaten those with anything and necessitate building even more prisons in a nation already famous for locking up way too many people, at great taxpayer expense.

Much much more civilized to provide something BASIC for everyone and then everything else based on INCENTIVES. 

With technology the people either can't adapt and are stuck in BASIC or those that are truly lazy and choose BASIC, such people won't have to live like animals. There can be virtual reality solutions to enrich their lives. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Jingthing

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I have to agree with the poster above: this is a badly worded question.

 

I am a social liberal and an economic conservative.

 

How am I supposed to vote?

Stay sat on the fence maybe?

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, UnkleMoooose said:

Are you defining liberal as Democrat/Labour/Socialist?

Give an example of Liberal Socialism and we have something to ponder.

[Catoni]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's a very complex political question.

But more advance nations are already seeing the wisdom of a basic minimum income.

The automation of menial jobs is already happening and it will accelerate. 

Obviously the focus needs to be on preparing youth for work that can't be automated, and those classes of work will be shrinking over time, so it's a moving target. 

It's really a matter of balance.

The way the  USA is going with economic inequality and the future of automation, you're looking at a dystopian fascist future of creating a MASSIVE hungry, violent, desperate underclass (easily over half the population) that will threaten those with anything and necessitate building even more prisons in a nation already famous for locking up way too many people, at great taxpayer expense.

Much much more civilized to provide something BASIC for everyone and then everything else based on INCENTIVES. 

With technology the people either can't adapt and are stuck in BASIC or those that are truly lazy and choose BASIC, such people won't have to live like animals. There can be virtual reality solutions to enrich their lives. 

  Careful of your socialist leaning system..... or you could end up like Greece, Venezuela, and close to economic ruin like Italy, Spain and Portugal...  Even the much vaunted Scandinavian countries had to dial back their socialism.... they saw where it was headed....  

     Remember.... Governments do not have any money of their own.  Any money they have has either been confiscated from others, or borrowed from future generations. There is no magic source of money for Socialist governments of either the far extreme right, nor the far extreme left. It's money they take by force of law.

    Legal Plunder. 

 

   SOCIALIST GOVERNMENTS TRADITIONALLY DO MAKE A FINANCIAL MESS. THEY ALWAYS RUN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY. It’s quite a characteristic of them. They then start to nationalise everything, and people just do not like more and more nationalisation, and they’re now trying to control everything by other means. They’re progressively reducing the choice available to ordinary people.

 -  Prime Minister Lady Margaret Thatcher of England.

[sirineou]

I am neither

I am progressive 

[Becker]

28 minutes ago, Catoni said:

  Careful of your socialist leaning system..... or you could end up like Greece, Venezuela, and close to economic ruin like Italy, Spain and Portugal...  Even the much vaunted Scandinavian countries had to dial back their socialism.... they saw where it was headed....  

     Remember.... Governments do not have any money of their own.  Any money they have has either been confiscated from others, or borrowed from future generations. There is no magic source of money for Socialist governments of either the far extreme right, nor the far extreme left. It's money they take by force of law.

    Legal Plunder. 

 

   SOCIALIST GOVERNMENTS TRADITIONALLY DO MAKE A FINANCIAL MESS. THEY ALWAYS RUN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY. It’s quite a characteristic of them. They then start to nationalise everything, and people just do not like more and more nationalisation, and they’re now trying to control everything by other means. They’re progressively reducing the choice available to ordinary people.

 -  Prime Minister Lady Margaret Thatcher of England.

OK, you're against all kinds of taxation so you don't want a defense, roads, schools, public hospitals, a public power grid etc. Great for you.

[Jingthing]

I would call my ideology Democrat Socialist Futurist. The nations that are going to lead and have the best quality of life will be the ones that embrace the AI and automation revolutions most aggressively including their profound implications for the future of work. trump does the opposite.

 

Such a path would be painful for many but not following it will be more painful for many more.

 

Not all nations are advanced enough yet to be at the forefront of this. The USA could but won't. Socialism phobia strikes again.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[Catoni]

2 minutes ago, Becker said:

OK, you're against all kinds of taxation so you don't want a defense, roads, schools, public hospitals, a public power grid etc. Great for you.

    Typical knee jerk non-thinking reaction of a leftist...   

 

        Mind quoting me where I made that claim ?    I'll wait right here.

[Becker]

4 minutes ago, Catoni said:

    Typical knee jerk non-thinking reaction of a leftist...   

 

        Mind quoting me where I made that claim ?    I'll wait right here.

Knee jerk reaction?? You're calling taxation "legal plunder" - your words. So what is it, are you against taxation or not? Either you come up with an answer or you're trolling.

[Catoni]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I would call my ideology Democrat Socialist Futurist. The nations that are going to lead and have the best quality of life will be the ones that embrace the AI and automation revolutions most aggressively including their profound implications for the future of work. trump does the opposite.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

      So how are socialist countries like Greece and Venezuela doing lately ?  Spain, Italy and Portugal not doing too well either..headed for trouble.....   At least the much vaunted Scandinavian countries woke up to the fact before things went too far. They've backed off from their socialism to quite some extent...  it's nothing like it was. Slowly, Scandinavia is returning to the free market roots it once had long ago. 

[Catoni]

11 minutes ago, Becker said:

Knee jerk reaction?? You're calling taxation "legal plunder" - your words. So what is it, are you against taxation or not? Either you come up with an answer or you're trolling.

  Obviously SOME taxation is necessary, for the defence of the country, protection of citizens from criminals, firefighters...that sort of thing...  I would guess 10% - 15% might be reasonable.

        But NOT so much taxation that they grab 45 % - 50 % or more of all I earn....  THAT is nothing more than legal plunder. Especially when they use the money I worked to earn to pay for crimes like partial birth abortion on demand. Or to use my hard earned money to reward unrepentant Islamic killers like Omar Kahdr $10.6 MILLION for being inconvenienced in Guantanamo. 

   They sure as hell never asked me my opinion...  and I never voted for the weed smoking part time high school dama teacher JustinTrudeau.  

      I voted for Stephen Harper.  

Edited December 18, 2017 by Catoni
addition

[Jingthing]

      So how are socialist countries like Greece and Venezuela doing lately ?  Spain, Italy and Portugal not doing too well either..headed for trouble.....   At least the much vaunted Scandinavian countries woke up to the fact before things went too far. They've backed off from their socialism to quite some extent...  it's nothing like it was. Slowly, Scandinavia is returning to the free market roots it once had long ago. 

You keep tweaking it. You're a purist. I'm not. The future is coming and it may be a fascist dystopian one but I think we can do much much better.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Morch]

Fascist Neo-Con and Naive Libtard are among the many things I've been called on these forum.

Sure does get confusing sometimes.

[Becker]

14 minutes ago, Catoni said:

  Obviously SOME taxation is necessary, for the defence of the country, protection of citizens from criminals, firefighters...that sort of thing...

        But NOT so much taxation that they grab half or more of all I earn....  THAT is nothing more than legal plunder. Especially when they use the money I worked to earn to pay for crimes like partial birth abortion on demand. Or to ue my hard earned money to reward unrepentant Islamic killers like Omar Kahdr $10.6 MILLION for being inconvenienced in Guantanamo. 

   They sure as hell never asked me my opinion...  and I never voted for the weed smoking part time high school dama teacher JustinTrudeau.  

      I voted for Stephen Harper.  

You seem a tad bit confused. So now you're saying that taxation is NOT legal plunder when it's less than half of what you earn. Glad we sorted that out for you. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Becker

[attrayant]

Stay tuned for the next poll, entitled "what size are you?", with no clue as to whether it's asking about waist size, hat size, shoe size, height, weight or any of the other dozens of ways we can measure size (get your mind out of the gutter).

 

Political Compass:

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by attrayant

[attrayant]

I've just finished the political compass test, which took about 15 minutes.  Apparently I'm a left-leaning libertarian; diametrically opposite to Trump.  No wonder I abhor him so much.

 

 

 

[riclag]

5 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Question should be:

Are you a useful idiot and patsy for the cultural Marxists?

or

Are you determined to resist the deconstruction of western civilization?

I am determined to resist, blowing up western civilization!

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Catoni said:

    Typical knee jerk non-thinking reaction of a leftist...   

 

        Mind quoting me where I made that claim ?    I'll wait right here.

And yours from the right.

The truth of the mater is that all countries are socialist to a degree. In fact the concept of a nation is a socialist concept where people get together and pool their resources for the common good.

   Then I guess it is not socialism that is in question but rather the degree of socialism in general and the argument on the benefits or detriment  to the common good certain  projects  present.

    There , reasonable minds can disagree.

 As far as the source of the problem Greece Venezuela, and others face is highly debatable.

[Catoni]

36 minutes ago, riclag said:

I am determined to resist, blowing up western civilization!

   Thank you comrade.  Now you may go back to studying your copy of the Works of Lenin.  

  See you at out next Communist Party Marxist-Leninist cell meeting. 

[Becker]

22 minutes ago, Catoni said:

   Thank you comrade.  Now you may go back to studying your copy of the Works of Lenin.  

  See you at out next Communist Party Marxist-Leninist cell meeting. 

A couple of great minds are on display here tonight!

[riclag]

1 hour ago, Catoni said:

   Thank you comrade.  Now you may go back to studying your copy of the Works of Lenin.  

  See you at out next Communist Party Marxist-Leninist cell meeting. 

Your either confused or trolling. I rather die then be communist.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, attrayant said:

I've just finished the political compass test, which took about 15 minutes.  Apparently I'm a left-leaning libertarian; diametrically opposite to Trump.  No wonder I abhor him so much.

 

 

 

Funny.

My chart:

 

[baboon]

This is an interesting thread. However it goes unfortunately to show the dire state of politics in late 2017: A few on both sides of the political spectrum interested in honest debate and discourse being shouted down by others who just bellow slogans at one another and cannot or will not make any inroads as to why others think the way they do.

How did (wo)mankind become this - quite frankly - stupid?