Buying condos for investment?

[masuk]

On 12/01/2018 at 4:14 PM, worgeordie said:

You are not going to find any cheap Condos around  Nimmanhaemin Road,its one of the most

popular places in Chiang Mai for tourists,and Real estate agents do not solve all your problems,

they are not professional like they maybe in the West,you need to be active in all aspects of 

maintaining,renting,your property, you keep saying Cheap, what kind of price are you expecting

to pay for a unit.?     then you have to find a property where all the foreign allocation is not already

sold.

regards worgeordie

I dealt with an agent in Nimman, and was surprised how little they knew about the property. When I complained that water came in thru the ceiling whenever it rained, the agent didn't want to know about it.

Anyway, who'd want to rent directly underneath a busy flight path?

[worgeordie]

39 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

So how can that be factual given 97 - 99 ?? 

 

75% loss.. Phuket took a decade to recover the same values.. 

With land you have to look at the long term, what was the price of land

at end of 99, and what is the value of that same land today,a huge increase,

correct,when  I first moved into our MooBan,the best land next to the river was,

2,000 THB per square wah, a plot in front of our house,just sold for 29,000 THB

per square wah,so a very nice profit for someone,doing absolutely nothing.

 

They are not making any more of it,the population increases every year,the

demand for land increases every year,so the prices follow demand,thats a

simple fact, the drop of 75 %  you talk about was the result of people who

had extended themselves,got deep in debt so had to liquidate their assets,

people who were not in debt,had cash or credit with the Banks,did not sell their

land ,but took advantage of those that had to sell,and bought cheap land,

and today that same land is worth a lot of money.

 

So take notice of your Wife,mine says the same thing.

regards Worgeordie

[chingmai331]

How many TV readers can accept the plan to 'buy land'?  Gotta have a Thai wife so that feature eliminates most of us. 

[Redback]

aMike, having been an estate agent for more than 30 years and an investor in numerous ventures, I strongly suggest you develop relationships with agents and meet with them (if you can), tell them you are looking for investment properties with reasonable returns, even with existing tenants, or property that need some reno's. Be broad, but if you want a unit say "only units/condos, and ask them to email you their listings, regularly. Tell them price is not such an issue as you may purchase more than one. The idea here is to become educated quickly on a market. You want information such as all regular outgoings, management fees, extraordinary levies, any pending work to be done on the building and common areas. I'm still yet to see a net 10% return (after ALL outgoings). My finance business pays over 30% P.A. and I'm 1/2 the cost of the competitors. That's not being a loan shark, that's knowing a market and adapting to it.

[Dazinoz]

2 hours ago, masuk said:

Anyway, who'd want to rent directly underneath a busy flight path?

Lived in a small mubaan behind Think Park 3 years. Got used to the planes.

 

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

With land you have to look at the long term, what was the price of land

at end of 99, and what is the value of that same land today,a huge increase,

correct,when  I first moved into our MooBan,the best land next to the river was,

2,000 THB per square wah, a plot in front of our house,just sold for 29,000 THB

per square wah,so a very nice profit for someone,doing absolutely nothing.

 

They are not making any more of it,the population increases every year,the

demand for land increases every year,so the prices follow demand,thats a

simple fact, the drop of 75 %  you talk about was the result of people who

had extended themselves,got deep in debt so had to liquidate their assets,

people who were not in debt,had cash or credit with the Banks,did not sell their

land ,but took advantage of those that had to sell,and bought cheap land,

and today that same land is worth a lot of money.

 

So take notice of your Wife,mine says the same thing.

regards Worgeordie

But now your just talking the devaluation of fiat money.. I hold my assets in crypto, precious metals, equity (both public and private) etc etc.. Plus that is outside the baht which was a huge factor in the 75% fall in overall value at that time. 

 

If land 'rises' I have to budget against similar rises in my other assets, a few decades back my life savings went into gold at 380 USD.. If I am to buy land, I am 'selling' gold.. If land goes nowhere for almost a decade, as per the example I just gave on Phuket I am losing. 

 

The idea land never goes down is false, it regularly and routinely goes down, doubly so when compared to other assets classes than fiat currency. Land has been going down in bitcoins fairly significantly this last 2 years. 

[worgeordie]

10 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

But now your just talking the devaluation of fiat money.. I hold my assets in crypto, precious metals, equity (both public and private) etc etc.. Plus that is outside the baht which was a huge factor in the 75% fall in overall value at that time. 

 

If land 'rises' I have to budget against similar rises in my other assets, a few decades back my life savings went into gold at 380 USD.. If I am to buy land, I am 'selling' gold.. If land goes nowhere for almost a decade, as per the example I just gave on Phuket I am losing. 

 

The idea land never goes down is false, it regularly and routinely goes down, doubly so when compared to other assets classes than fiat currency. Land has been going down in bitcoins fairly significantly this last 2 years. 

For the long term,give me land everytime,I have my opinions and you will stick with yours,

" Land has been going down in bitcoins fairly significantly this last 2 years."and Bitcoins

have been going down as well,they are far too volatile and risky,especially if you entered

near the top of the market,but that goes for land and property too i suppose.all about timing,

and knowing when to get out.

Good luck with the Bitcoin

regards worgeordie

[LivinLOS]

47 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

especially if you entered

near the top of the market,but that goes for land and property too i suppose.all about timing

Precisely my point.. Moving from one asset class to another is how I build a larger pot.. I dont really do passive investing. 

The lack of liquidity is one aspect that keeps me holding little property, I can be out of most of my investments at a phone call, many of them 24/7..  

[Jeffkp]

On 1/12/2018 at 3:03 AM, aMike said:

Planning to do shorter term rents for months, maybe even weeks,

By law, you cannot rent a unit for less than a month.  For that you need a hotel license. We had some problems with owners in our building do just that and had to threaten them with the police. Also, they were not renting to high quality people.

[zaZa9]

My buddy moved his 6 month break to CM on the strength of rec from expats who moved up there raving about what great value it was and wanting to be able to make a short commute to the walled city. He ended up near a Shell garage in a new apartment  on the rd to Doi Suthep and it was nothing short of a 2 bed crappy box at 16k a month and he had already come to see that by the time I visited. Walking distance to nothing ... I think the days of an Expat seeing CM as far as  a good  rental deal  goes are gone.

[jackspratt498]

On 1/12/2018 at 2:58 PM, aMike said:

what would you consider cheap for a small condo? Like 30-35 meters as most older ones are. I'm only looking in nimman.

That's what real estate agents are for, to avoid the headache of dealing with tenants :)

Real estate agents don't do anything but sell you the unit. Once it's yours the tenants you rent to are 100%  yours to deal with.

[jackspratt498]

25 minutes ago, zaZa9 said:

My buddy moved his 6 month break to CM on the strength of rec from expats who moved up there raving about what great value it was and wanting to be able to make a short commute to the walled city. He ended up near a Shell garage in a new apartment  on the rd to Doi Suthep and it was nothing short of a 2 bed crappy box at 16k a month and he had already come to see that by the time I visited. Walking distance to nothing ... I think the days of an Expat seeing CM as far as  a good  rental deal  goes are gone.

Chiang Mai is definitely a good value for renting, but you have to look hard  to find the good deals, like anywhere. I had 42m walking distance to the south moat for 6500THB and could have had a smaller room in the same buildingfor around 3000THB/month..

 

That said, it would be an awful place to buy a condo for a rental income. Rents are too low and the market is glutted.

Edited January 15, 2018 by jackspratt498
Posted before finished.

[LivinLOS]

6 hours ago, zaZa9 said:

My buddy moved his 6 month break to CM on the strength of rec from expats who moved up there raving about what great value it was and wanting to be able to make a short commute to the walled city. He ended up near a Shell garage in a new apartment  on the rd to Doi Suthep and it was nothing short of a 2 bed crappy box at 16k a month and he had already come to see that by the time I visited. Walking distance to nothing ... I think the days of an Expat seeing CM as far as  a good  rental deal  goes are gone.

So people make bad deals.. Shock horror.. 

 

Also many expats want to live 'surrounding' Chiang mai, to have access to facilities of a city but still live in relatively peaceful countryside, thats not hard to do within 30 minutes of downtown (and lets face it it can take 30 minutes to cross downtown). 

 

Takes some work but theres still plenty of superb deals around if you avoid the agents. I have a 3 bed 2 bath house, western kitchen, swimming pool, 3/4rd of a rai garden, for 11k. Makes me woder why I want to build sometimes. 

[MaeJoMTB]

7 hours ago, zaZa9 said:

My buddy moved his 6 month break to CM on the strength of rec from expats who moved up there raving about what great value it was and wanting to be able to make a short commute to the walled city. He ended up near a Shell garage in a new apartment  on the rd to Doi Suthep and it was nothing short of a 2 bed crappy box at 16k a month and he had already come to see that by the time I visited. Walking distance to nothing ... I think the days of an Expat seeing CM as far as  a good  rental deal  goes are gone.

Plenty of fools in the world, doesn't mean CM is bad value.

Loads of condos in CM from 3,500bht/month up.

[MaeJoMTB]

17 hours ago, chingmai331 said:

How many TV readers can accept the plan to 'buy land'?  Gotta have a Thai wife so that feature eliminates most of us. 

There was that guy from Norway that thought buying land was a good idea, before he was banned from entering Thailand by his wife and her police boyfriend.

[heybruce]

Don't tell people to shop around and look for good deals!  That goes against the business plans based on overcharging for rent.

[Dazinoz]

Has always amazed me that when people tell me they lost/gained money on their shares, land, bullion or whatever and when I ask when did you sell it, oh I haven't yet. It just a paper loss/gain. Not an actual loss gain until sold.

 

[MaeJoMTB]

7 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Has always amazed me that when people tell me they lost/gained money on their shares, land, bullion or whatever and when I ask when did you sell it, oh I haven't yet. It just a paper loss/gain. Not an actual loss gain until sold.

 

I'd go further (and more paranoid) .........

No money is gained until it's hidden in notes (or gold) in a safety deposit box your wife doesn't know about.

Edited January 16, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Dazinoz]

15 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I'd go further (and more paranoid) .........

No money is gained until it's hidden in notes (or gold) in a safety deposit box your wife doesn't know about.

How true.

 

[LivinLOS]

5 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

Has always amazed me that when people tell me they lost/gained money on their shares, land, bullion or whatever and when I ask when did you sell it, oh I haven't yet. It just a paper loss/gain. Not an actual loss gain until sold.

 

Depends what you measure it in... Some people seem to have a hard time thinking outside of one or two fiat currencies.. Lets face it fiat is only one measure and a fairly poor store of wealth. 

 

To be honest when I hold larger bank accounts I mentally do the exercise to keep converting those back to gold and silver every few months. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by LivinLOS

[beavercreek]

Living', didn't you give drop shipping a try?  I know you made several negative references to a well known conman.  Cheapest condo around Nimman is likely Condo 103 on soi 14, with 24 SM for 650ish.  CM Condo on Soi 11 is about the same, but IMO, kind of disgusting.  Nimman is OK for a drink (nothing like it was), but the whole neighbourhood is mostly a chinese tourist ripoff.  Enjoy Santitham, while there s still time, as all that cancer along HK is malignant.

[LivinLOS]

Me ?? Drop shipping.. LOL.. 

 

No I came out of retirement and now do a few things with real businesses, back in the west.. 

[worgeordie]

17 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Depends what you measure it in... Some people seem to have a hard time thinking outside of one or two fiat currencies.. Lets face it fiat is only one measure and a fairly poor store of wealth. 

 

To be honest when I hold larger bank accounts I mentally do the exercise to keep converting those back to gold and silver every few months. 

"To be honest when I hold larger bank accounts" in FIAT money ?,I thought that was

completely against everything you financially believe in ,I thought all your assets were

in Gold ,Bitcoins and Equity,at least that's what you said.or do you still have uses for

Fiat money?

regards Worgeordie

[LivinLOS]

I have very few bitcoins.. Mostly NEM Ether (sold now ripple) etc etc.. The more fringe ones with higher moon shot potential.. I do sometimes move them to BTC as its easier, cheaper and faster than moving to fiat. 

 

But yes >90% of my assets are not in fiat, I do have to keep >100k in a bank account to qualify for my banking perks, I sometimes have to shift assets about through fiat. I recently started another biz generating fiat and that needed a couple 100k euros slush fund to get rolling.. But basically I dont 'save' in fiat or consider my assets in fiat as much as I consider my assets kilos and ounces. 

Some of my business activity is providing non fiat and non equity based savings products for pension funds. 

[Dazinoz]

Apparently the cryptos took a beating last night. Haven't seen any details yet.

 

[LivinLOS]

35 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Apparently the cryptos took a beating last night. Haven't seen any details yet.

 

yeah they are being monkey hammered across the board.. with recent mania and hype it was and is clearly needed.. 

 

Would be good to see BTC down at 4 - 6k, out of the new cycle for a month or two.. 

[heybruce]

Regarding intangible investments, such as crypto currencies, it's worth remembering that AOL went from a market valuation of $222 billion in December 1999 to $3 billion ten years later.  There was money to be made if you got on and off the bubble at the right times, but money to be lost otherwise. 

 

Where do yo think the cryptos are now?

[LivinLOS]

Could say exactly the same about many currencies.. I carry a 100 trillion dollar note around in my wallet with a 1 oz silver coin.. 

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Could say exactly the same about many currencies.. I carry a 100 trillion dollar note around in my wallet with a 1 oz silver coin.. 

Paper currencies are regulated by governments to facilitate commerce.  When the regulation is incompetent, the paper becomes worthless.  When the regulation is competent it underpins the modern global economy.

 

Coins made of precious metals are now precious metal investments; investments that earn no interest so are used primarily for speculation or as last ditch stores of value.

 

Crytos are billed as currency, but are rarely used as mediums of exchange, by definition they are not currencies.  They are accepted by limited vendors and fluctuate in value too much to qualify as anything other than speculative investments, underpinned by nothing.  At least AOL provided a service.

 

Definition of currency

plural currencies

1 a : circulation as a medium of exchange

b : general use, acceptance, or prevalence

• a story gaining currency

c : the quality or state of being current : currentness

• needed to check the accuracy and currency of the information

2 a : something (such as coins, treasury notes, and banknotes) that is in circulation as a medium of exchange

b : paper money in circulation

c : a common article for bartering

• Furs were once used as currency.

d : a medium of verbal or intellectual expression

• … neither side possessed any currency but clichés …
• —Jan Struther

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/currency

[DLang]

I got a great deal on an empty unit. Which is what I wanted, as I wanted to interior design it myself.

 

Ended up moving away from CM and got lucky ( I suppose) with a great agent. Been rented everyday since then returning 10% per annum of purchase + interior design. 

 

 

Stay away from cheap-ass studios in some moldy 40 yr old building. 

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by DLang