Police checkpoint blamed for accident as Malaysian "big bike" tourist dies in South

[Mattd]

3 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

Does it mention "thinking distance"?

My point was and still is that it is not IMHO safe to follow another vehicle whilst maintaining the vehicles MINIMUM braking distance, to do so would be suicide, there are a lot of factors that would change the braking distance and to rely on the minimum available to you (even if you knew what that distance was for the prevailing conditions) would be stupid, especially on a motorbike, where the mechanical grip is a lot less than a car and you are so much more vulnerable.

The safe distance needs to include reasonable braking distance under normal circumstances, not an emergency stop!

This is even more pertinent today, whereby vehicles can have huge differences in braking ability, the car in front of you may have 50% better braking ability than your vehicle, which is why it is very important to be aware of what is going on as far ahead as is reasonably practical, drive / ride too close and that advantage is negated, because all you can see is the rear of the vehicle ahead.

 

It is not disputed that conditions change and  that folks in front of you can and do make stupid moves, however you are responsible to drive accordingly and should in 99% of cases be able to stop or avoid the vehicle in front of you.

 

A motorbike rider does in a way have a certain advantage, in that they are able to position themselves on the road to allow better vision / escape.

[Hupaponics]

1 minute ago, Mattd said:

My point was and still is that it is not IMHO safe to follow another vehicle whilst maintaining the vehicles MINIMUM braking distance, to do so would be suicide, there are a lot of factors that would change the braking distance and to rely on the minimum available to you (even if you knew what that distance was for the prevailing conditions) would be stupid, especially on a motorbike, where the mechanical grip is a lot less than a car and you are so much more vulnerable.

The safe distance needs to include reasonable braking distance under normal circumstances, not an emergency stop!

This is even more pertinent today, whereby vehicles can have huge differences in braking ability, the car in front of you may have 50% better braking ability than your vehicle, which is why it is very important to be aware of what is going on as far ahead as is reasonably practical, drive / ride too close and that advantage is negated, because all you can see is the rear of the vehicle ahead.

 

It is not disputed that conditions change and  that folks in front of you can and do make stupid moves, however you are responsible to drive accordingly and should in 99% of cases be able to stop or avoid the vehicle in front of you.

 

A motorbike rider does in a way have a certain advantage, in that they are able to position themselves on the road to allow better vision / escape.

I'm with you mate. However it's pointless to teach stupid... They just don't get it.

Cheers

[toho]

2 hours ago, helloagain said:

Fancy showing the dead man lying in the road, YOU HEARTLESS SODS, you disgust me

Fully agree. But blood and misery sells. Pictures by reporters even made in hospital first aid room, where persons are fighting for their lives.

Many do not help wounded persons in the street, they just make pictures instead and share these on the internet.  Happens everywhere, but for me Thailand is in the top-10.  Welcome to the world we live in.

[watcharacters]

1 minute ago, Mattd said:

My point was and still is that it is not IMHO safe to follow another vehicle whilst maintaining the vehicles MINIMUM braking distance, to do so would be suicide, there are a lot of factors that would change the braking distance and to rely on the minimum available to you (even if you knew what that distance was for the prevailing conditions) would be stupid, especially on a motorbike, where the mechanical grip is a lot less than a car and you are so much more vulnerable.

The safe distance needs to include reasonable braking distance under normal circumstances, not an emergency stop!

This is even more pertinent today, whereby vehicles can have huge differences in braking ability, the car in front of you may have 50% better braking ability than your vehicle, which is why it is very important to be aware of what is going on as far ahead as is reasonably practical, drive / ride too close and that advantage is negated, because all you can see is the rear of the vehicle ahead.

 

It is not disputed that conditions change and  that folks in front of you can and do make stupid moves, however you are responsible to drive accordingly and should in 99% of cases be able to stop or avoid the vehicle in front of you.

 

A motorbike rider does in a way have a certain advantage, in that they are able to position themselves on the road to allow better vision / escape.

 

 

Your point is well taken.

 

To take to the logical extreme the opposite of minimum safe braking distance may be never leaving.   If minimum distance achieves the goal it is  certainly  acceptable.

 

 

 I don't mean to quibble but again allowing for reaction time (thinking to satisfy some) and adequate braking distance  is a  very minimum.    

 

 

 

This came from another site.    Of course followed by likely less than 1% in Thailand but nevertheless:

 

Speed, speed limits and stopping distances

Key facts

• Breaking the speed limit or travelling too fast for conditions was recorded (by police at crash scenes) as a contributory factor of 24% of fatal crashes in 2016 [1];
• Drivers with one speeding violation annually are twice as likely to crash as those with none [2];
• A Brake and Direct Line survey found that four in 10 (40%) of drivers admitted that they sometimes driver at 30mph in a 20mph zones [3];
• More than a quarter of drivers surveyed (26%) admitted to ‘regularly’ speeding in areas designed to keep children and other road users safe. [4] 

Introduction

Speed is a critical factor in all road crashes and casualties. Driving is unpredictable and if something unexpected happens on the road ahead – such as a child stepping out from between parked cars – it is a driver’s speed that will determine whether they can stop in time and, if they can’t stop, how hard they will hit.

Reducing and managing traffic speeds is crucial to road safety. Breaking the speed limit or travelling too fast for conditions is recorded (by police at crash scenes) as a contributory factor in almost one in four (24%) fatal crashes in Britain[5]. This is arguably a gross underestimate, because whether or not a vehicle is judged to have been speeding or going too fast for conditions, the fact it was involved in a collision means it was going too fast to have stopped in time. In this way, speed is always a contributory factor, albeit often in combination with other causes: no one was ever killed by a stationary vehicle.

Dutch research has found drivers with one speeding violation annually are twice as likely to crash as those with none, and this increases further for drivers who commit repeated speed violations [6].

Take action: Make the Brake Pledge to stay under speed limits, slow to 20mph by schools, homes and shops, slow right down for bends, brows and bad weather, and speak out for slowing down.

 

Learn more: Read our major research report on the extent of 20mph limits in Great Britain and the barriers faced by local councils in implementing them.

 

 

  Test your knowledge: Try our GO 20 quiz. 

Stopping distances

Stopping distances include the distance travelled while the driver notices a hazard and applies the brakes (thinking distance), and while the vehicle comes to a full stop from its initial speed (braking distance). The government's official estimates of stopping distances for cars are shown below. [7]

Source: Department for Transport, 2007

The distances above are based on a reaction time of 0.67 seconds, which assumes the driver is alert, concentrating and not impaired. Driving when tired, distracted or impaired significantly increases reaction times, so the thinking distances above should be regarded as minimums.

The braking distance depends on how fast the vehicle was travelling before the brakes were applied, and is proportional to the square of the initial speed. That means even small increases in speed mean significantly longer braking distances. Braking distances are much longer for larger and heavier vehicles, and in wet or icy conditions, so again these figures are a minimum [8].

Technology such as anti-lock brakes and stability control are designed to enable greater control over the vehicle, not shorten stopping distances. There may be a very small reduction in braking distance with modern technology, but not enough to significantly affect your overall stopping distance [9].

Whatever technology a vehicle has, the basic fact remains that the faster you drive, the longer your stopping distance, and therefore the less chance you have of stopping in time in an emergency.

Learn more: Read our advice for drivers on staying slow and safe.

Impact speed

Driving faster not only lessens drivers’ chances of being able to stop in time to avoid hitting someone or something. It also means if they can’t stop in time, they will hit with greater impact. The greater the impact, the greater the chances of causing serious injury or death.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MadMuhammad]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Please reference that law with a link saying what you claim, Sir.

 

 

 

 

Following a vehicle requires  consideration of reaction time as well as required braking distance.

 

I question your claim and await your confirmation.

 

And certainly you have not experienced Thai Highways in a private vehicle.     Here it would be impossible to do as you suggest.

 

I maintain a good distance always and have had one accident in 60 years of driving.

 

Can you make a similar claim?

 

Tickets?   Yes 4 of them during that time.

 

You?

http://www.attorneys.com/auto-accidents/who-is-liable-in-a-rear-end-collision

 

Because basic traffic laws mandate a driver must be able to come to a safe stop if the vehicle(s) ahead stops or slows down. Incidentally, this traffic rule also governs sudden stops. If the subsequent driver cannot come to a safe stop, chances are he or she is not driving in a safe manner and probably not as safely as the driver in front of him or her.

 

This was the first one that popped up. There’s a huge amount from many countries stating same

Edited January 17, 2018 by MadMuhammad

[USPatriot]

Its called paying attention to the road. Check point , kid a broken down car an accident, a tire lots of things can happen.

[watcharacters]

4 minutes ago, USPatriot said:

Its called paying attention to the road. Check point , kid a broken down car an accident, a tire lots of things can happen.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely!

 

 

 

 

[Hupaponics]

The sadest thing, except that one person lost his life, is that everyone here on TV yak yak how bad Thai drivers are. 

Now (sadly) a biker dies and the respons of many of you who like bashing thai drivers now try to defend this "big bike" motorist with utterly stupid excuses. English is not my native tongue. However, I'm pretty sure there is a word for it.

"they collided with the back of a pick-up". Really, what more to say? Who's to blame? The checkpoint? No, must be the pick-up truck that was breaking... Could be the road or the curve. Ohh, no curve... CONES, it must be the cones!!!

Ridicules

And for those of you blaming the accident on "obstacles" don't dare to bash the thai drivers...

[EDIT] And shame on you! Now who got the driving license in a cornflakes box...

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Hupaponics

[watcharacters]

1 minute ago, Hupaponics said:

The sadest thing, except that one person lost his life, is that everyone here on TV yak yak how bad Thai drivers are. 

Now (sadly) a biker dies and the respons of many of you who like bashing thai drivers now try to defend this "big bike" motorist with utterly stupid excuses. English is not my native tongue. However, I'm pretty sure there is a word for it.

"they collided with the back of a pick-up". Really, what more to say? Who's to blame? The checkpoint? No, must be the pick-up truck that was breaking... Could be the road or the curve. Ohh, no curve... CONES, it must be the cones!!!

Ridicules

And for those of you blaming the accident on "obstacles" don't dare to bash the thai drivers...

The sadest thing, except that one person lost his life, is that everyone here on TV yak yak how bad Thai drivers are. 

Now (sadly) a biker dies and the respons of many of you who like bashing thai drivers now try to defend this "big bike" motorist with utterly stupid excuses. English is not my native tongue. However, I'm pretty sure there is a word for it.

"they collided with the back of a pick-up". Really, what more to say? Who's to blame? The checkpoint? No, must be the pick-up truck that was breaking... Could be the road or the curve. Ohh, no curve... CONES, it must be the cones!!!

Ridicules

And for those of you blaming the accident on "obstacles" don't dare to bash the thai drivers...

 

 

 

I have driven on highways in Thailand where there is literally no warning of a police checkpoint or construction zone.    

 

That is due, I believe,  to neglect or laziness on the part of police or construction crews

 

Yes one must be even more diligent and aware on roads in Thailand than in some other countries.

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed and leave the monks blessing on the headliner.  

 

 

 

[Surasak]

4 hours ago, Emster23 said:

Lack of attention to driving and traffic conditions are what killed him. Blaming checkpoint is like blaming the ground for killing some guy that jumps from 10th floor

Like the pokice say when farang have accident, if the ground hadn't been there.....

[Hupaponics]

16 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

I have driven on highways in Thailand where there is literally no warning of a police checkpoint or construction zone.    

 

That is due, I believe,  to neglect or laziness on the part of police or construction crews

 

Yes one must be even more diligent and aware on roads in Thailand than in some other countries.

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed and leave the monks blessing on the headliner.  

 

 

 

Tell me all about it mate:)

Last 2 months i did 7.000km on the roads here. 800km during "7 days of death". I just love to explore this country by road.

No monks blessing, just trusting my skills. However, when I was driving in Bkk I did want to find a temple for a blessing:)

 

To everyone. Drive safe and keep the distance.

[overherebc]

3 hours ago, NextStationBangkok said:

Big bikes are exiting  to ride. But most of them chase other cars and riding very close to them watching from sides, and miss the speed of the car in the front.

 

Big bikes mostly out of control when they applied breaks.

 

You take risks, until you die. Speed kills!

Speed doesn't kill. Lack of driver/rider ability kills.

[wvavin]

Simply ask what speed he was traveling at the point of collision that could cause death?

[digger70]

If one Runs into the back off an other vehicle,,,,According to the Law one didn't keep enough distance and is at Fault,,,,

[mercman24]

only in thaivisa second post, accident solved,, 

[Russell17au]

Remember that this is a two lane road and the Police road blocks are normally one lane and at a guess I would say that the cones are further along the road so therefore they would not be in sight. There has been another couple of vehicles that have also collided. But, the big question is what caused his death? Have a good look at the picture at where his body is and where his bike is. If he had hit the rear of the pick up at speed then he would have been thrown into the back of the pick up (not the tailgate but actually into the cargo bay) as would have been the same for his wife and if it was a low speed accident then WHAT killed him?.

The safe distance law is that you must be traveling at a distance for the rear of the vehicle in front to be able to stop safely without hitting the vehicle in front. That means that you must travel at a safe distance in accordance of the road conditions whether it be the speed of the traffic or the weather. If the vehicle in front of you stops for any reason then you must be able to stop without hitting it.

As for the picture of his body laying there, I believe that they should take photo's close up of the blood and guts and show them on television and print them in the newspapers and then maybe it might shock enough people and some may change their driving habits

[newnative]

  There will continue to be deaths and injuries at these checkpoints because the Thai police have no idea how to set up a safe checkpoint. Throwing  a few cones in the road with no advance warning, whether it is a straight road or not, is not the way to do it. 

[luckizuchinni]

I was in an accident in Thailand  at a  police checkpoint.  I was stopped with a pickup in back of me.  The policeman was standing in front of me, and when I saw him stare over my car, I looked in my rearview mirror.  A dump truck was behind me, and it was obviously not going to stop.  It ploughed into the pickup which ran up the back of my car.

 

My car was badly damaged, but the pickup, which was full of goods for a market, was demolished.  No one was hurt, thank goodness, but we had to wait for three hours until all three insurance companies arrived, then another hour while statements were taken and my car was towed (and the pickup was loaded on a flatbed).

[Torrens54]

MORONS on MOTORBIKES.... so Excessive Speed was not a factor?

WOW.... how unusual !

[garyk]

I almost ran over a policeman at a supposed checkpoint. Two policemen were waving down cars for speeding. I was passing a truck ( not speeding ) when i saw him and he jumped out of the way. Scared the life out of me. 

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, helloagain said:

Fancy showing the dead man lying in the road, YOU HEARTLESS SODS, you disgust me

I am sure many didn't feel that way, it was a distant shot.

Showing the reality  and discussing the cause is the point.

[NextStationBangkok]

15 hours ago, chrissables said:

Idiot

YES. We all idiots until we die.

 

After we die we get RIP. Thank you.

[transam]

15 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Outstanding Trans,

 

You and the genius above you fail to grasp what I've posted but I'll clue you in.

 

I once followed a smaller truck at a very safe distance on an excellent surface.     It was a two  lane express road and the weather was pristine.   I was travelling the speed limit of 70 MPH.   At the very very  last possible second this A.sh.ole  I was following swerved into the right lane.   I was  then immediately  faced with a porta potty on its side on the road  in front of me.        My reaction time was  totally eliminated by the near homicidal actions of the driver in front of me..     I had plenty of distance for reaction and braking but to take one of those away does not apply to the equation.

 

I fortunately drive with awareness so i moved into the right lane as well and was happy I was not closely followed by another car.    Even today I wonder why the driver ahead of me did what he did.    To change that scenario would mean I'd have to drive a kilometer behind most drivers on a highway.   Reasonable?

 

 

Two things for all you geniuses.  I suggest googling  stopping distances and make a claim you allow for them in Thailand.   If you did you'd be moving backwards.

 

Secondly,  please tell me the last time you tested your cars braking system from a panic stop at 100 Km an hour?    Never done it?   I thought so.

 

 

Good luck to all of you.

 

 

 

 

 

You have just posted stuff that can happen and in LOS it happens on a regular daily basis.

 

I was a heavy goods vehicle driver in the UK for a few years, it was drummed into me when being taught to obtain a HGV license about reading the road ahead and stopping a HGV. I never had an accident. I was also a cab driver for 7 years, never had an accident. .

 

But, I was in the middle of a motorway accident, caused by daft stuff, everyone got nicked for driving without care and attention. I was found not guilty...

Now tell me, did the road block in the OP suddenly jump out of the bushes....?

 

My Thai police captain friend was killed last year at a road block, checking for drunks, he was flattened by a HGV with trailer that was NOT READING THE ROAD AHEAD when others were..

[chrissables]

54 minutes ago, NextStationBangkok said:

YES. We all idiots until we die.

 

After we die we get RIP. Thank you.

Big bikes are exiting  to ride. But most of them chase other cars and riding very close to them watching from sides, and miss the speed of the car in the front.

Most? What are you talking about?

 

Big bikes mostly out of control when they applied breaks.

As most big bikes have ABS, this is not correct and i doubt you have any knowledge of riding a push bike, let alone a "big" bike.

 

You take risks, until you die. Speed kills!

I think you will find it's the stopping that kills. Try analysing the reason for that, and maybe you will understand what kills. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by chrissables

[spacebass]

20 hours ago, SS1 said:

If any of you actually ride bikes in Thailand you may have noticed how dangerous the checkpoints can be sometimes, particularly the illegal ones. I saw one under Don Mueang tollway, they had set up one the side of the 3-lane road and jumping in the middle of the road between cars. Only saw them maybe 20 meters before because of the traffic and had to do brake hard to not hit one of the idiots. 

 

Another time there was a checkpoint at Sunthon Kosa Rd near Khlong Toey, the first 2 lanes were blocked mainly by trucks and I was riding the outer lane within the speed limit at around 80km/h, until suddenly a cop jumped in front of me from behind a truck to stop me. Had to brake really hard to not hit him (thank god I had ABS). The <deleted> even fined me for "riding on the right lane" even though the other lanes were blocked with traffic. 

Both good examples of dangerous checkpoints on straight roads and in these cases they weren't visible until maybe 20 meters before. 

You were supposed to bribe him when he started fining You.

[SS1]

1 hour ago, spacebass said:

You were supposed to bribe him when he started fining You.

200 baht tea money was what I meant with "fine".. better than wasting time at a police station. 

[D3030]

On 1/17/2018 at 9:49 AM, sweatalot said:

I am surprised that not more accidents happen at police checkpoints. They are an obstacle and there is no warning ahead. Sometimes you have to slow down because there suddenly  is an unexpected congestion

Just "sometimes" you need to slow down for a police check point?

 

More like required to slow down, even if there is unexpected congestion!

 

My guess, the least possible chance of getting killed due to unexpected traffic, would be at a police check point.

 

But, Safety first!!  Do away with police check points!

[Anthony Loh]

This photo is taken after the accident so is difficult to said who is wrong at this moment. I sure believed that someone will have a dash cam to tell the truth! R.I.P and hope his wife can recover very soon to said something for this accident!

[Just Weird]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:47 AM, Get Real said:

Yeah, both checkpoints and traffic are dangerous things for people that do not look when driving. Straight road, No problem. He could see the checkpoint 200 meters away, but he didn´t see the car he drove into.

He was only one of 4 vehicles involved, how do you know it was his fault, as you seem to be suggesting?  Could he see through the vehicles in front of him?

[Just Weird]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 2:02 PM, Emster23 said:

Lack of attention to driving and traffic conditions are what killed him. Blaming checkpoint is like blaming the ground for killing some guy that jumps from 10th floor

What about all the other vehicles that were involved, was it their fault also?