why no love and respect for farang no more in asia

[geisha]

Can’t say I’ve ever had a problem with lack of friendliness in Thailand with people I know, my  condo staff , local restaurants etc. On the other hand , I’ve witnessed some really unfriendly , agressive shop keepers who speak very rudely , even the mall staff, the taxis and baht buses openly hostile and ignorant these days. This is new behaviour. Asking a sales girl for a bigger size of shirt, you would think that I’d insulted her and if a look could kill.....On the other hand , I travel quite a lot around the region and have never noticed this behaviour in neighbouring countries . At the moment in Penang, the people could not be nicer and more helpful, it’s delightful to talk to them. I think I would put this problem in Thailand down to lack of education and good manners . Also, there are a lot of people coming into the cities and beach resorts who have absolutely no knowledge of foreigners . It’s a shame, as they won’t get far,  or happier , with a scowl on the face. 

[Suradit69]

12 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Perhaps the OP is looking at it from a "white privilege" point of view.  It used to be that Asian folks kissed-up to westerners.  But not anymore.  They just treat everyone as an equal.  Some folks can't handle that.

Yes, farang can suffer badly from perceived loss of face. If someone doesn't run ahead of them strewing rose petals in their path, they feel distressed. 

 

I find people to be as friendly as ever,  but consider it quite normal that not everyone is going to come over all  aquiver in eager anticipation as Khun Farang approaches. 

 

Some people also misunderstand the "Land of Smiles" concept. It doesn't mean that everyone in Thailand goes around perpetually grinning like an idiot. It means that there are many distinctive types of smiles, not all of which imply fawning and obsequious behavior.

 

Quote

1. Yim yaw

This smile can be used in two ways: Firstly, when teasing someone, and secondly when wanting to express the words “I told you so”, without actually having to be so harsh.

2. Yim cheun chom 

This smile is a controlled yet beautiful smile that expresses the words, “I admire you”, or, I’m proud of you”.

3. Yim mai awk 

This is the smile used when concealing difficult emotion. It’s the “I’m trying my best to smile but I’m struggling” smile. This might be used when someone is brokenhearted or physically hurt.

4. Yim mee lessanai 

This is a devious smile that masks bad intent. If you really upset your Thai partner, you should probably worry if you get this smile in return.

5. Yim chuead chuean 

Similar to Yim mer lessanai, but more the “Mwhahaha” bad guy smile, this would be used by a person who has gotten the upper hand over someone.

6. Yim dor dhaan 

This smile indicates that you disagree, but will entertain the idea or go along with the action regardless. It’s the “You can go ahead, but you know I disagree and that your idea isn’t a good one” smile.

7. Yim sao 

This is the standard smile of sadness, one that indicates someone really isn’t happy.

8. Yim haeng 

 This is the dry smile, also known as the “I know I owe you the money but I don’t have it” smile.

9. Yim suu suu! 

 This is the smile of encouragement, the  “You/I can do it” smile.

10. Yim yoh-yae 

This smile is the Thai equivalent to suggesting that it’s not worth getting upset over something that seems pretty bad, but has happened and can’t be changed.In essence, it’s the “no point in crying over spilt milk” smile.

11. Yim thang nam daa 

This smile must be interpreted in context, as it can mean two different things. On one hand it can mean “I’m so happy I’m crying inside”, and on the other, given different circumstances, “I’m so sad inside, but I’m still smiling”.

 12. Fuoon Yim 

This is the “mai jing jai” (literally translated as ‘not real heart’) smile.  It’s a stiff and somewhat fake smile. For example, “I should laugh at the joke, but it’s not funny, so I’ll do this smile instead and help you move on”.

13. Yim taak thaai 

This is the smile of convenience, a polite smile that enables you to acknowledge someone you don’t know that well, or someone you aren’t going to get into a long conversation with. It’s pretty much the most common smile you’ll get when out and about in Thailand

 

.

http://www.thethailandlife.com/whats-behind-a-thai-smile

 

[Autonuaq]

Welcome in the world that modern technology is shaping.

The people copy the western style and habits.

 

The same as we have seen when the tv became popular in the west.

 

Still you get smiles and meet friendly people. 

Being able to show kindness and being friendly is not a sign of weakness at all.

 

Just a sign how society is losing its identity and faiths away in to a collective where no one cares about the other.

 

[Suradit69]

26 minutes ago, geisha said:

even the mall staff, the taxis and baht buses openly hostile and ignorant these days

Not sure that a lack of friendliness equates to ignorance. In fact it probably is learned from dealing with many rude, cheap foreigners.

 

Many of the people you refer to may have to work 10 or 12 hours a day for crap pay and then have to cope with obnoxious people who treat them badly.

 

At my condo the security service employs two men to man the lobby desk 24/7. So that means each works 12 hour shifts and I don't recall any day when they weren't on duty. And then some of the people they have to deal with are really condescending and unpleasant. Despite that they are almost always pleasant when spoken to politely. Truly amazing. If I had to deal with all that, someone would be dead by now.

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Not sure that a lack of friendliness equates to ignorance. In fact it probably is learned from dealing with many rude, cheap foreigners.

 

Many of the people you refer to may have to work 10 or 12 hours a day for crap pay and then have to cope with obnoxious people who treat them badly.

 

At my condo the security service employs two men to man the lobby desk 24/7. So that means each works 12 hour shifts and I don't recall any day when they weren't on duty. And then some of the people they have to deal with are really condescending and unpleasant. Despite that they are almost always pleasant when spoken to politely. Truly amazing. If I had to deal with all that, someone would be dead by now.

correct respect is earned and the quality of foreigner went down that much is for sure. 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Depends to some extent where you live. It's certainly true that mass tourism familiarity breeds contempt everywhere, and if you live or visit areas such as lower Sukhumvit or Pattaya, you will not receive the warm smiles you may have received twenty or thirty years ago. Beyond that, the rose-tinted attitudes of your early years here tend to fall away, and what you glossed over at first now begins to irk you.

Thailand has moved up a bracket or two economically in that time, and that has brought attendant worries and stresses that have led to the famous Thai smile of a generation ago being a rarer animal these days. Such is the modern world. If you go to a country where they are still grateful and curious about foreigners, you will generally receive the old warm welcome that you are nostalgic for. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by PerkinsCuthbert

[OJAS]

47 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

If you think there ever was love for farangs, you live in la-la land.

Thais are among the most xenophobic people in the world, but they love money, so when they were poor they 'loved' the rich farang.

Now, that they are not so poor anymore, 'love' is on the wane.

Xenophobia is at least equally alive and kicking in most countries in the Western world, if not considerably more so than here in LOS.

[manchega]

I always see every other country as a former colony.

Thus I adopt the state of mind of owning everything.

Easier to understand like that

[smotherb]

15 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

MAYBE THEY THINK you are from the USA..!

Gee, that is humorous. I am from the USA and I have found most of the dissent shown Americans comes from Europeans and terrorists.  It must be jealousy or fear, or both.

I have spent over 50 years in Asia, and lived for extended periods of time in Vietnam, Iran, the Philippines, Saudi Arabia and Thailand. I have been shown respect and friendship by the natives in all those countries, but I do try to accept their differences and maintain an open mind.

[timendres]

Everywhere I go, Thai people love me.  

[natway09]

Maybe it is the places you go, company you want to keep & your presentation.

Do you smile ??????

27 years here has taught me that you reap what you sow & I am not talking about money

[flyingdoc]

Sometimes it is a reflection of how friendly you appear to them?  Always on the brink of a smile oneself, often brings a ready smile back !

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, smotherb said:

 I have been shown respect and friendship by the natives in all those countries, but I do try to accept their differences and maintain an open mind.

 

Not all Americans do, which is why "The Ugly American" was written. But hey, there's ugly in all nationalities.

As you have spent 50 years in Asia, I daresay that may have something to do with what you get from all the "natives", although I wouldn't use that term myself. Has colonial connotations.

[Skeptic7]

You are absolutely correct and it is exponentially true here in LOS...Land Of Snarls. It was great all trough the 90's and halfway thru 2000's, when there weren't many of us and we were still somewhat of a rarity. 

 

Can remember being in bars in 1991-1999 and many nights maybe a dozen cutomers. Choice of seating was at ones total preference. Now...standing room only. Thailand was also unknown and considered a bit scary &, "Wild West" to most and a secret kept from many/most, but the Internet (which I love) ruined all that.

 

IMO they are over us. Tourism is off the rails and even though establishments here are many plenty times more busy than back then...the employees are still paid basically the same shit for wages. They used to have a relatively simple days/nights work and get paid crap...now busy nonstop the entire shift and still paid crap. This country is a Tourist Trap now and the Thais have been inundated and overwhelmed, yet very few of the front line employees benefiting. 

[baansgr]

Its always been about money here anyway, just the same Try the Philippines, at least no language barrier and similar western culture. 

[punchjudy]

one reason is if you watch the thai news there is a steady stream of farang on there every night committing shocking crimes like chopping up bodies, ransacking atm's, etc.

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes, farang can suffer badly from perceived loss of face. If someone doesn't run ahead of them strewing rose petals in their path, they feel distressed. 

 

I find people to be as friendly as ever,  but consider it quite normal that not everyone is going to come over all  aquiver in eager anticipation as Khun Farang approaches. 

 

Some people also misunderstand the "Land of Smiles" concept. It doesn't mean that everyone in Thailand goes around perpetually grinning like an idiot. It means that there are many distinctive types of smiles, not all of which imply fawning and obsequious behavior.

 

.

http://www.thethailandlife.com/whats-behind-a-thai-smile

 

Thank you... I have been telling people on these forums that there are many types of smiles... it is not only flirtatious... I did not know there was a linguistic expression as well other than the simple yim mai jing type of saying... and I find people to be as friendly as ever too - or better said, as friendly as I am to them.

[yogavnture]

17 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

I'm confused, what difference would it make if you were from the USA?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

americans are percieived as having money. they want money. thus the sour look

[alex8912]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Not all Americans do, which is why "The Ugly American" was written. But hey, there's ugly in all nationalities.

As you have spent 50 years in Asia, I daresay that may have something to do with what you get from all the "natives", although I wouldn't use that term myself. Has colonial connotations.

Didn't you get the OP was just being obnoxious when he posted not being American? There was no mention of where he was from ( but it would be easy to guess)  and he was just discussing  a lack of a casual smile when perhaps just walking by someone or a quick encounter where the other person would have no idea which western country he was from. Your mention of the ugly American is also soo past tense and quite lame. When was that from? How many decades ago?  Was it about the topic Asia?? Do you really see poor behavior( behaviour lol ) of Americans here in Thailand a lot?  No need to answer. One country citizens here in Thailand constantly acts ugly and it's certainly not Americans. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by alex8912

[sawadee1947]

Use your mother language which is not English I suppose. You will see love coming 

[Gecko123]

The internet has turned the whole world into blase, anti-social know-it-alls.

 

Thais generally like and respect Americans, although this has slipped considerably since Trump got into office.

 

In the 32 years since I first came to Thailand, I can't remember a time when I ever felt Thais kow-towed to foreigners. I think there was a time when tourism was taking off here, that people smiled more because the department of tourism indoctrinated people into behaving like welcoming hosts, and that this friendliness would pay off on the bottom line, but that's not the same thing as kow-towing.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Gecko123

[maxcorrigan]

2 hours ago, timendres said:

Everywhere I go, Thai people love me.  

That's cause you're "ansum"

[smotherb]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Not all Americans do, which is why "The Ugly American" was written. But hey, there's ugly in all nationalities.

As you have spent 50 years in Asia, I daresay that may have something to do with what you get from all the "natives", although I wouldn't use that term myself. Has colonial connotations.

Well, now you are mixing government policies with citizens' actions. I suppose you've never heard of the atrocities committed by the British government, German government, Soviet and/or Russian government, Japanese government, Chinese government, and most other governments; especially those with power?  Some might even say the American atrocities are less horrific than some others. However, it seems the Europeans, even those who have benefited from American intervention, do the most complaining.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, alex8912 said:

Didn't you get the OP was just being obnoxious when he posted not being American? There was no mention of where he was from ( but it would be easy to guess)  and he was just discussing  a lack of a casual smile when perhaps just walking by someone or a quick encounter where the other person would have no idea which western country he was from. Your mention of the ugly American is also soo past tense and quite lame. When was that from? How many decades ago?  Was it about the topic Asia?? Do you really see poor behavior( behaviour lol ) of Americans here in Thailand a lot?  No need to answer. One country citizens here in Thailand constantly acts ugly and it's certainly not Americans. 

The Americans I meet in Chiang Mai are friendly, affable people. Go down to Pattaya, and you will see a horse of a different colour - but that's true of many nationalities.

The Ugly American was about the diplomatic failures of the USA in South-East Asia. From what I read and hear, including from Americans, that tradition continues today.

Of course, the US now has the home-grown version of the Ugly American occupying the White House.

[Lacessit]

30 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Well, now you are mixing government policies with citizens' actions. I suppose you've never heard of the atrocities committed by the British government, German government, Soviet and/or Russian government, Japanese government, Chinese government, and most other governments; especially those with power?  Some might even say the American atrocities are less horrific than some others. However, it seems the Europeans, even those who have benefited from American intervention, do the most complaining.

Good point, and I am aware of the past atrocities of those governments. As I said in another post, it depends on where one is. I've seen plenty of disgusting behaviour in Pattaya when the US fleet docks there for R&R. No surprise the locals aren't smiling.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Lacessit

[malibukid]

the internet and ATM's have made it a lot easier for idiots to come here.  years ago you had a different kind of traveler who would show some respect.   Asia is not the adventure that it once was. globalization has also played a large part for better or worse here.  really can't blame the Thai's, to their benefit they are pretty tolerant of the errant behavior of some farangs

Edited January 26, 2018 by malibukid

[MaeJoMTB]

7 hours ago, Emster23 said:

I'd guess it may be a number of factors, not limited to following items: air travel is cheaper (not saying all with lower wages are louts, BTW), far more Russians can travel now (met some lovely ones, but parts of their general culture probably grates more harshly against Asian values), and just sheer numbers. Not so sure if only farang tourists getting chillier welcome, may just lump us all in category "tourists" be they Euro-ish, African, Chinese, Indian, etc etc

Or it could be the general blames white folk for everything, and the masses just follow the boss man.

[Mac98]

21 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

I'm confused, what difference would it make if you were from the USA?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

China-USA conflicts over Taiwan, South China Sea, human rights, and now being bad mouthed by Trump. That was the short list. 

[Dustdevil]

It's true that Americans as a whole have lost face by electing a Neanderthal president. What a change from when Obama was elected. By the way, how many self-righteous Europeans or Commonwealth citizens can claim they've elected an ethnic minority as head of state? Trump, too, shall pass, perhaps sooner than we think or dare hope. Anyway, Chiang Mai is my favorite Asian city and I find it as pleasant as it was five years ago except for the vast crowds of nouveau riche mainland Chinese. Have you heard how they loud they are esp in Dong Mueang Airport? I've been traveling internationally since 1960 (on my own since '69) and I've never seen or heard anything like it. You could hear them from 200 yards down the passageway and all the other passengers, Russians, Thais, whatever, were astonished. Anyway I'm in Ho Chi Minh City now with my gf, who likes to remind me that the Vietnamese have Chinese blood and that soon China will be the world's most powerful country, not my home country of the USA. But the Vietnamese have all been very nice to me in any case. Perhaps Thais share some of that Asian pride. I told her I don't mind about China as long as I don't have to live there (been there many times) and as long as we stand up to their meddling in our freedom of speech in the West.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Dustdevil

[smotherb]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Good point, and I am aware of the past atrocities of those governments. As I said in another post, it depends on where one is. I've seen plenty of disgusting behaviour in Pattaya when the US fleet docks there for R&R. No surprise the locals aren't smiling.

Gee, you mean young men averaging 19-21years of age, who have been locked away at sea for months, but now have a pocket full of money and are let loose in sin city. No, I just can't imagine what they may do. So please tell me about British, German, Russian, Chinese or Japanese sailors on liberty in sin city.