Scooby and Puppy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 27/01/2018 at 6:57 PM, MaeJoMTB said: Rumor has it a POTY was trying to move there but were surprised when told they didn't have enough money. KUL are generous on the entry VISA of 90 days (I get that when I'm waiting 6 hrs for a through flight), but staying there LT is probably much harder. Philippines you can arrive and stay 3 years without leaving, no finance checks at all. I was in the Philippines in 2011, overstayed 1 day (didn’t know it was 21 days visa free), and got fined 70 odd quid, which is over 3,000 baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Scooby and Puppy said: I was in the Philippines in 2011, overstayed 1 day (didn’t know it was 21 days visa free), and got fined 70 odd quid, which is over 3,000 baht. Looks in passport ........ every PI entry I've made gave me 1 month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 16 hours ago, Air Smiles said: Interesting article crushing a few stereotypes: The gay scene in Kuala Lumpur has a number of bars and restaurants that cater for the ‘pink segment’. The most famous of these is the raunchy Blue Boy bar which has a special drag show every night. There are also a large number of restaurants that are ‘gay and lesbian friendly’ and gay massage parlors. https://asiancorrespondent.com/2015/07/kuala-lumpur-prostitution-malaysia/ Stereotypes? I wonder.... [Homosexuality is still criminalized in Malaysia, where LGBT rights are practically nonexistent. In February, the government released a video promoting conversion therapy and, later banned a Pride event in Kuala Lumpur after criticism from Muslim groups.] http://www.newnownext.com/malaysian-government-bans-tourists-coming-for-gay-party-in-kuala-lumpur/09/2017/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Berkshire said: Stereotypes? I wonder.... [Homosexuality is still criminalized in Malaysia, where LGBT rights are practically nonexistent. In February, the government released a video promoting conversion therapy and, later banned a Pride event in Kuala Lumpur after criticism from Muslim groups.] http://www.newnownext.com/malaysian-government-bans-tourists-coming-for-gay-party-in-kuala-lumpur/09/2017/ That's all true and it's horrible, but I think gay expats there being "others" are not in quite the same boat as citizens, especially Muslim ones. Of course there is always the risk of being arrested in some kind of raid, but still, it isn't Iran or Aceh Province Indonesia. (Yet.) Edited January 30, 2018 by Jingthing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Smiles Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Berkshire said: Stereotypes? I wonder.... [Homosexuality is still criminalized in Malaysia, where LGBT rights are practically nonexistent. In February, the government released a video promoting conversion therapy and, later banned a Pride event in Kuala Lumpur after criticism from Muslim groups.] http://www.newnownext.com/malaysian-government-bans-tourists-coming-for-gay-party-in-kuala-lumpur/09/2017/ Homosexuality is only just emerging from being criminalised in the west, conversion therapy is still legal in 41 states across the US, including Massachusetts and New York. The Malay government released a video and banned a march so what? They are still turning a blind eye to the gay bars and massage parlours so, Yes, crushing stereotypes? ...did you not read the comments in this thread that have Malaysia painted as ultra conservative culture a'la Islam? Edited January 30, 2018 by Air Smiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 The oppression of gay people in Malaysia is real, but that doesn't necessarily mean that many gay people don't find ways to live their lives there, and yes, you could say the similar things about places like Mississippi, USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Air Smiles said: Homosexuality is only just emerging from being criminalised in the west, conversion therapy is still legal in 41 states across the US, including Massachusetts and New York. The Malay government released a video and banned a march so what? They are still turning a blind eye to the gay bars and massage parlours so, Yes, crushing stereotypes? ...did you not read the comments in this thread that have Malaysia painted as ultra conservative culture a'la Islam? Look, I've been to Malaysia and honestly don't have much of a problem with the country. I prefer Thailand over Malaysia for a number of reasons...none of it having to do with gay rights. Because I'm not gay. But the OP is. We're not comparing Malaysia to Saudi Arabia, but to Thailand. And I say Thailand is much more tolerant towards the LGBT community than Malaysia....largely due to religion. As JT says, the gay folks in Malaysia will find ways to live their lives. But it needn't be as difficult as it apparently is. And unfortunately for them, from what I've read, it will only get worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) There is no doubt at all that civil rights for gay people is better in Thailand than Malaysia. But even for gay people, that isn't the only thing to consider. It would be in more severe cases, like Iran, but Malaysia isn't there yet. To add, as I mentioned before, antisemitism is a much more serious issue in Malaysia than homophobia. For Israelis, it means they can't even visit there as a tourist so they won't ever know that it is an attractive nation. For other Jews, it largely means closeting yourself. Impossible for observant, traditional Jews, but usually easy enough for others except if they have an obviously Jewish name. Edited January 30, 2018 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Smiles Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jingthing said: There is no doubt at all that civil rights for gay people is better in Thailand than Malaysia. But even for gay people, that isn't the only thing to consider. It would be in more severe cases, like Iran, but Malaysia isn't there yet. Civil rights for gay people is better in Thailand than almost anywhere else in the world, so the comparison is a little skewed, but the fact remains, Malaysia has a thriving gay scene as well as p4p so its not quite the puritanical hellhole that some posters are making out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Air Smiles said: Civil rights for gay people is better in Thailand than almost anywhere else in the world, so the comparison is a little skewed, but the fact remains, Malaysia has a thriving gay scene as well as p4p so its not quite the puritanical hellhole that some posters are making out. I generally agree but actually Thailand lacks legal protections against discrimination for gay people, so don't get carried away with asserting that Thailand tops the world in that regard. Foreigners especially tourists are often fooled by superficial appearances. But that's a separate topic really. Edited January 30, 2018 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opalred Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 i lived there for a few yrs and have been most country's in the world and would say that would be the worst even changed to slam because of a women i was going with i saw all sides of Malaysia and you would have rocks in the head to stay there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Smiles Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Jingthing said: I generally agree but actually Thailand lacks legal protections against discrimination for gay people, so don't get carried away with asserting that Thailand tops the world in that regard. Foreigners especially tourists are often fooled by superficial appearances. But that's a separate topic really. The lack of legal protections could well be a result of the lack of persecution in Thai history(which is found in nearly all western countries), so don't get carried away with asserting that is somehow Thailand is not a world leader when it comes to lgbt rights, foreigners especially tourists are often fooled by superficial appearances and don't really know that many kathoey are acutely held in high regard within Thai society, many of who are employed in foreigner facing positions for eg in big hotels and sales positions for their excellent work ethic and customer service, and they can largely walk down the street without being attacked or ridiculed, similarly many gay thais are free to walk down the street holding hands, again something of a minefield in western countries. But that's a separate topic really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tifino Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 ... adding to the above ...holding hands.. thing: it's extremely commonplace to observe such in Malaysia. Invariably prevelant amongst Malay men, but specifically amongst those not-yet-married. It is not a gay thing, but a kickback result of the 'close proximity laws' in place, that keeps them from showing any direct public affection. Get married, and it goes away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 ... adding to the above ...holding hands.. thing: it's extremely commonplace to observe such in Malaysia. Invariably prevelant amongst Malay men, but specifically amongst those not-yet-married. It is not a gay thing, but a kickback result of the 'close proximity laws' in place, that keeps them from showing any direct public affection. Get married, and it goes awayYes that is sweet but very few people would confuse that cultural practice with homosexuality.In Pattaya its not uncommon to see groups of obviously straight middle aged Indian men walking down beach road all holding-hands. About as gay as a stag party. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dddave Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jingthing said: s that is sweet but very few people would confuse that cultural practice with homosexuality. Years ago, I was in the US Navy, stationed in Morocco, a largely Islamic nation. It was commonplace for Moroccan men to take another man's hand when walking in public places; nothing sexual about it but it took me a long time to get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Years ago, I was in the US Navy, stationed in Morocco, a largely Islamic nation. It was commonplace for Moroccan men to take another man's hand when walking in public places; nothing sexual about it but it took me a long time to get used to it.Yeah. Cultural differences are fun. When I was in Argentina I was kind of shocked to see two beautiful young men approach each other on a street corner and do the kissy thing inches from my face. My gut reaction was it was a gay thing but I quickly realized that's just a greeting thing there. I think they noticed my reaction and found it funny. Tourists! Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisakiman Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 hours ago, dddave said: Years ago, I was in the US Navy, stationed in Morocco, a largely Islamic nation. It was commonplace for Moroccan men to take another man's hand when walking in public places; nothing sexual about it but it took me a long time to get used to it. I think it must be normal in most Islamic countries. It certainly was in Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan when I was there in the late '60s. And as JT points out, not unusual for Indian men to hold hands either. I must admit that I was slightly taken aback when, on my first visit to Tehran, a local lad I'd got friendly with and who was taking me to a vodka bar took my hand as we were strolling down the street. I didn't quite know what to do! I had to make some rapid cultural adjustments! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart1916 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 hours ago, Jingthing said: Yeah. Cultural differences are fun. When I was in Argentina I was kind of shocked to see two beautiful young men approach each other on a street corner and do the kissy thing inches from my face. My gut reaction was it was a gay thing but I quickly realized that's just a greeting thing there. I think they noticed my reaction and found it funny. Tourists! Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Agree on Argentina, and found that after a week or two, I was doing it too, no biggie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William T Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Malaysian state introduces public caning for sharia crimes - Reuters https://www.reuters.com/...malaysia.../malaysian-state-introduces-public-caning-for-sh... Jul 12, 2017 - A Malaysian state amended its Islamic laws on Wednesday to allow public canings, sparking criticism that the change was unconstitutional and could infringe on the rights of religious minorities. ISLAMIC LAW IN MALAYSIA | Facts and Details factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Malaysia/sub5_4d/entry-3677.html Non-Muslims are required to follow secular laws that deal with the same matters. Islamic laws covering matters such as morality, inheritance, marriage and divorce. Sharia is applied on some matters throughout the country and has been applied in a more extreme manner in two Malaysian states, Kelantan and Terengganu. ISLAMIC LAW IN MALAYSIA · Impact of Malaysia's Islamic ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Horrible but aren't Muslims subject to different "morals" than non Muslims there? Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Jingthing said: Horrible but aren't Muslims subject to different "morals" than non Muslims there? Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app I don't know about morals, but Sharia law only applies to Muslims. I think One of the most contentious areas is the application of Sharia law to children, when one parent does not believe that they should be Muslim. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I don't know about morals, but Sharia law only applies to Muslims. I think One of the most contentious areas is the application of Sharia law to children, when one parent does not believe that they should be Muslim. SC Isn't Muslim apostasy illegal there? That's pretty horrible. Imagine not having the right to change or leave your religion. Before someone cries Islamophobia its one thing recognizing sovereign rights of nations but its another thing to approve of obviously oppressive policies. Cultures can be both different and wrong. Malaysia definitely has such policies but so do a lot of places. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Jingthing said: Isn't Muslim apostasy illegal there? That's pretty horrible. Imagine not having the right to change or leave your religion. Before someone cries Islamophobia its one thing recognizing sovereign rights of nations but its another thing to approve of obviously oppressive policies. Cultures can be both different and wrong. Malaysia definitely has such policies but so do a lot of places. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app I'm not sure how apostasy is treated, since obviously apostates by definition are not Muslims. I think in practice your religion is irrelevant, if it says "Muslim" on your Identity Card you're subject to Sharia law and the legal constraints that apply to Muslims. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said: I'm not sure how apostasy is treated, since obviously apostates by definition are not Muslims. I think in practice your religion is irrelevant, if it says "Muslim" on your Identity Card you're subject to Sharia law and the legal constraints that apply to Muslims. SC Malaysians list religion on their ID cards? Driver's license or some other ID? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Berkshire said: Malaysians list religion on their ID cards? Driver's license or some other ID? Interesting. Yes. And race, as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opalred Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 they would be the most unhappiest people in the world i went to a lot of events with the Muslims once i was laughing and playing with the children i was told to stop as people would think i was drunk anther time was at a Muslim wedding i joked and laughed was frond on and told to stop to live there you have to be serious and depressed with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Just now, opalred said: they would be the most unhappiest people in the world i went to a lot of events with the Muslims once i was laughing and playing with the children i was told to stop as people would think i was drunk anther time was at a Muslim wedding i joked and laughed was frond on and told to stop to live there you have to be serious and depressed with them That's the other Malaysia, the one that exists only in your mind. The last Malay wedding I was at was a happy, cheerful affair. The Malays are generally a cheerful bunch, but all races here are quite welcoming to farangs. When I'm out cycling, I can't recall any time I've been subjected to abuse, but do frequently get shouts of encouragement, thumbs-up etc. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 31 minutes ago, opalred said: once i was laughing and playing with the children i was told to stop as people would think i was drunk Maybe they just thought that it was inappropriate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHTel Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 18 hours ago, William T said: Jul 12, 2017 - A Malaysian state amended its Islamic laws on Wednesday to allow public canings, sparking criticism that the change was unconstitutional and could infringe on the rights of religious minorities. Caning under Sharia law has been carried out in Malaysia for quite some time. Quote Malaysia canes women for adultery The women, and four men, were caned following a decision in the religious courts in December, Hishamuddin said. His comments are being seen as a signal that the authorities could be preparing to cane another Muslim woman, Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno, who was arrested last year for drinking beer and sentenced to six strokes of the cane. Hishammuddin said Kartika's case had flagged concerns about how women should be flogged and that the recent canings demonstrated that the prisons department can carry out punishments in accordance with Islamic law. Under the sharia, the women have to be whipped in a seated position by a female prison guard and be fully clothed. "The punishment is to teach and give a chance to those who have fallen off the path to return and build a better life in future." This was back in 2010. Source: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2010/02/201021844619366612.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 hours ago, sanemax said: Maybe they just thought that it was inappropriate ? They probably thought he was drunk based on his punctuation, or lack thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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