Airport JAIL!

[Senechal]

I'm hoping for some advice regarding a problem unfolding at BKK airport as I write this. I've got a friend who is apparently in a bit of a bind at Survanabhumi 

 

This started 2 days ago:

 

My friend (a US citizen) was flying from Thailand to Ukraine. He was here on a tourist visa (and did not overstay) and flew to Ukraine on a tourist visa.

 

When he arrived in Ukraine they informed him that on his prior visit to Ukraine (several weeks ago) he had overstayed his Ukranian tourist visa. This was news to my friend who thought he could go back to Ukraine. 

 

The Ukranian customs officers told him he would have to fly back to Thailand on the same airline he flew to Ukraine on. They paid for his return trip, but he had to sleep in the airport for a day waiting for his return flight. 

 

So far.. so good. These things happen. It's the right of the Ukranian customs people to do this, of course.

 

 

 

Fast forward to today... he arrived at BKK airport and the customs officers denied him access to Thailand. Why? Because Ukraine had sent him back. 

 

(That makes zero sense to me)

 

My friend is quite well off and was happy to solve the problem in any number of ways. He was happy to either buy a ticket somewhere else, or even fly back to the USA. He had misunderstood the rules for returning to Ukraine, and acknowledged that mistake. But he was surprised to find himself detained in Thailand.

 

The customs officials at the airport are now keeping him in airport jail. He has been informed that he cannot buy a ticket anywhere else. Nor can he buy a ticket back to the USA. He has to wait in airport jail for 3 days.

 

To be clear: He has broken no rules in Thailand.

 

He has ample funds to stay.. or to buy a ticket somewhere else ... or go home to the USA on the next available flight.

 

But they insist that the law states that he must return to the USA only on the airline he flew to Ukraine on (???) and this airline has a flight on Saturday.

 

None of this makes a lick of sense to me. He's in airport jail right now, trying to get some help from the US embassy. They say there's nothing they can do. Thailand is free to enact its customs laws as it sees fit. (Which of course, they can. But it's not at all clear what laws apply here)

 

But again, he's just a tourist. He's done nothing wrong here. The only thing he screwed up on was overstaying a visa (in Ukraine!) by 1 day last month -- which has now resulted in him going to airport jail (in Thailand!)

 

Whether or not Thailand wants to offer him a new tourist visa is of course up to Thailand. But they have confiscated his passport, locked him in a jail cell with a bunk and a latrine,  and they insist that he returns to the USA not sooner than three days from now on a specific airline!

 

Has anyone ever heard anything like this? 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Senechal

[elviajero]

He can lawfully be denied entry to Thailand because of his problems in the Ukraine.

 

Immigration Act

Section 12 : Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the Kingdom :

11. Being deported by either the Government of Thailand that of or other foreign countries ; or

the right of stay in the Kingdom or in foreign countries having been revoked ; or having been sent out of the Kingdom by competent officials at the expense of the Government of Thailand unless the Minister shall consider exemption on an individual special case basis.

[Senechal]

11 minutes ago, elviajero said:

He can lawfully be denied entry to Thailand because of his problems in the Ukraine.

 

Immigration Act

Section 12 : Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the Kingdom :

11. Being deported by either the Government of Thailand that of or other foreign countries ; or

the right of stay in the Kingdom or in foreign countries having been revoked ; or having been sent out of the Kingdom by competent officials at the expense of the Government of Thailand unless the Minister shall consider exemption on an individual special case basis.

 

 

Interesting. Thanks for that info.

 

But can they take your passport, detain you and prevent you from getting on another flight?

 

This seems crazy. He hasn't done anything wrong, and yet he's in lockup. Btw.. he just texted me and said he'll be in lockup until Monday, as that's the next flight he can get on. So he'll be in jail for FIVE days

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Senechal

[poohy]

Ok so they can refuse him entry , fair enough

 

BUT why not waltz him to an airport desk and let him buy a ticket  to USA  today hes got the cash 

 

Seems to be a lack of commonsense all round!

[mikebell]

This story should be splashed all over the foreign press to warn other potential visitors how Thailand cherishes tourists.  

[Senechal]

10 minutes ago, poohy said:

Ok so they can refuse him entry , fair enough

 

BUT why not waltz him to an airport desk and let him buy a ticket  to USA  today hes got the cash 

 

Seems to be a lack of commonsense all round!

 

Yeah that's what he can't figure out either. He keeps asking everyone why he can't just buy a ticket home.  Or anywhere else for that matter.

 

But they won't give him his passport until he's back on the airline which sent him into Thailand.

 

And until then it's a 5 days in a windowless cell, on a bunk bed, sketchy migrant-worker cellmates and a latrine.  Welcome to Thailand!

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Senechal

[poohy]

3 minutes ago, Senechal said:

 

Yeah that's what he can't figure out either. He keeps asking everyone why he can't just buy a ticket home.  Or anywhere else for that matter.

 

But they won't give him his passport until he's back on the airline which sent him into Thailand.

 

And until then it's a bunk bed, cellmates and a latrine.  Welcome to Thailand!

 

Thinking about this with my old Operation managers head on, maybe and in all probability there's some law (airline agreement) regarding he has to be repatriated by original  incoming airline otherwise they are liable for a penalty fine.

 

Can he speak directly to airline Are there no seats to USA till monday OR no Flights?

[Senechal]

3 minutes ago, poohy said:

Thinking about this with my old Operation managers head on, maybe and in all probability there's some law (airline agreement) regarding he has to be repatriated by original  incoming airline otherwise they are liable for a penalty fine.

 

Can he speak directly to airline Are there no seats to USA till monday OR no Flights?

 

Well they have now explained to him that he can't actually fly on the original airline back to the USA as he originally understood.

 

Instead, he has to fly on the Ukrainian airline back to Ukraine and CONNECT to the USA through Kiev.

 

And that can only happen on Monday.

 

So... this is well and truly crazy.  He's stuck in a windowless cell for the next five days at Survanabhumi. Lovely vacation.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Senechal

[poohy]

8 minutes ago, Senechal said:

 

Well they have now explained to him that he can't actually fly on the original airline back to the USA as he originally understood.

 

Instead, he has to fly on the Ukrainian airline back to Ukraine and CONNECT to the USA through Kiev.

 

And that can only happen on Monday.

 

So... this is well and truly crazy.  He's stuck in a windowless cell for the next five days at Survanabhumi. Lovely vacation.

 

 

Ouch!!!

As i thought then, hes got to exit with Ukrainian airline and he will have to stay airside in Kiev to connect to flight to USA with Ukrainian airlines or codeshare partner, its not going to be a fun journey

Edited February 1, 2018 by poohy

[darrendsd]

23 minutes ago, mikebell said:

This story should be splashed all over the foreign press to warn other potential visitors how Thailand cherishes tourists.  

He is not a tourist, he is somebody who has been deported from another country

[elviajero]

24 minutes ago, Senechal said:

Interesting. Thanks for that info.

 

But can they take your passport, detain you and prevent you from getting on another flight?

 

This seems crazy. He hasn't done anything wrong, and yet he's in lockup. Btw.. he just texted me and said he'll be in lockup until Monday, as that's the next flight he can get on. So he'll be in jail for FIVE days

Yes. They can't let him in the country, can't send him back to the Ukraine and have decided (lawfully) he must go back to the USA. He will have to stay in detention until the next available flight.

[Mattd]

Normally immigration will make the responsibility of repatriation up to the airline that flew him to Thailand, although in this instance it would make more sense for them to let him purchase a new ticket and fly home to the US, it serves no purpose to detain him if he has the means to pay for a flight, pretty sure that they have the discretion to allow this.

[eisfeld]

If he has the funds, he should probably engage a local lawyer asap. He should be at least allowed to book a flight to wherever he wants. Not sure why they would not allow that, especially if he wants to fly home to the US.

[Senechal]

18 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

He is not a tourist, he is somebody who has been deported from another country

 

Yes. I think you're right. That's the legal distinction here. When he came 'back' to Thailand it was as a "deportee", which carries a completely different legal classification as a normal arrival.

 

He said when they bounced him in Ukraine they asked him if he wanted to "go to the US or back to Thailand". He didn't give it much thought. He just said, "Sure, send me back to Thailand".  He was a little miffed that he couldn't enter Ukraine, but figured he'd finish up his vacation in Thailand.

 

He had absolutely no idea that that meant, "Send me back to Thailand under the legal classification of 'deportee' where I will have no ability to enter the country, and live in a detention cell".  

 

Perhaps that should have been made more clear.

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Senechal

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, Senechal said:

He said when they bounced him in Ukraine they asked him if he wanted to "go to the US or back to Thailand". He didn't give it much thought. He just said, "Sure, send me back to Thailand".  He was a little miffed that he couldn't enter Ukraine, but figured he'd finish up his vacation in Thailand.

 

In retrospect, it would seem that choice was a pretty big mistake on his part, unfortunately.

 

Meanwhile, why is no one here asking -- why would Ukraine be deporting a U.S. citizen attempting to enter their country because he had, according to the poster here, a ONE day overstay on his prior tourist visa???

 

By contrast, if you have a tourist visa in Thailand and overstay by one day, you pay a relatively small fine at exit and go on your way. And AFAIK, having a one day overstay in Thailand now doesn't harm or impair your ability to come back later on a subsequent tourist visa...

 

So someone should be asking, what the heck is up with Ukraine?

 

[Senechal]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

In retrospect, it would seem that choice was a pretty big mistake on his part, unfortunately.

 

Meanwhile, why is no one here asking -- why would Ukraine be deporting a U.S. citizen attempting to enter their country because he had, according to the poster here, a ONE day overstay on his prior tourist visa???

 

By contrast, if you have a tourist visa in Thailand and overstay by one day, you pay a relatively small fine at exit and go on your way. And AFAIK, having a one day overstay in Thailand now doesn't harm or impair your ability to come back later on a subsequent tourist visa...

 

So someone should be asking, what the heck is up with Ukraine?

 

 

People get refused entry all over the world for loads of crazy reasons. People get bounced in Thailand all the time because they can't produce 20,000 baht in cash when asked. 

 

Yeah in hindsight it's a mistake. But who wouldn't make that mistake?

 

Imagine flying from Bangkok to Singapore and they tell you for whatever reason that you can't come in. So they say, do you want to go back to Bangkok, or on a 12 hour flight to the other side of the world?

 

I certainly would say "Bangkok". At which point I'd be in jail too I suppose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Senechal]

1 minute ago, Senechal said:

 

Yeah.. people get refused entry all over the world for loads of crazy reasons. People get bounced in Thailand all the time because they can't produce 20,000 baht in cash when asked.  Never mind the fact that you might have 3 credit cards, 2 atm cards and a reservation at a five star hotel.

 

True...  in hindsight it's a mistake. But who wouldn't make that mistake?

 

Imagine flying from Bangkok to Singapore and they tell you for whatever reason that you can't come in. So they say, do you want to go back to Bangkok, or on a 12 hour flight to the other side of the world?

 

I certainly would say "Bangkok". At which point I'd be in jail too I suppose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mattd]

His detention is probably something to do with his status here, i.e. in transit, rather than in the country, it might be some rule that the Thai immigration implement in these cases, I still think that they would have the discretion to allow him to book a flight and let him go on it, even if it meant him being escorted through immigration etc.

At the end of the day there isn't that much difference in sending him back on a flight to Ukraine.

 

Certainly serves as a warning to us all if ever in the same situation, as going back to your home country would mean that they could not refuse entry.

[midas]

40 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

In retrospect, it would seem that choice was a pretty big mistake on his part, unfortunately.

 

Meanwhile, why is no one here asking -- why would Ukraine be deporting a U.S. citizen attempting to enter their country because he had, according to the poster here, a ONE day overstay on his prior tourist visa???

 

By contrast, if you have a tourist visa in Thailand and overstay by one day, you pay a relatively small fine at exit and go on your way. And AFAIK, having a one day overstay in Thailand now doesn't harm or impair your ability to come back later on a subsequent tourist visa...

 

So someone should be asking, what the heck is up with Ukraine?

 

 

I found this rather surprising also and this article seems to suggest it's no big deal (particularly just by  one day) 

 

Quote

Essentially, you can stay in Ukraine as long as you want. The only catch is that you’re going to pay a fine when you leave–895 UAH to be exact.  

 

https://ukraineliving.com/overstayed-in-ukraine/

Edited February 1, 2018 by midas

[anon789561]

1 hour ago, Senechal said:

 

Yeah that's what he can't figure out either. He keeps asking everyone why he can't just buy a ticket home.  Or anywhere else for that matter.

 

But they won't give him his passport until he's back on the airline which sent him into Thailand.

 

And until then it's a 5 days in a windowless cell, on a bunk bed, sketchy migrant-worker cellmates and a latrine.  Welcome to Thailand!

 

they have beds? he can't moan to much then. didn't used to as far as i know

[eisfeld]

There's probably more to the story than the OP knows or states. A one day overstay shouldn't result in deportation from Ukraine and a US citizen splitting his holiday between Thailand and Ukraine isn't really common either. Also getting jailed for a couple days because entry was refused sounds a bit unusual. They would just force him to fly home (or somewhere else if he's lucky). The immigration officer also wouldn't really know that he was refused entry to Ukraine unless he told them so. They could only raise suspicion because there were no entry/exit stamps from Ukraine and that he came back so quickly (who does visa runs to Ukraine?) but it's not like Ukraine sends Thailand "headsup, a deportee coming through!". Maybe he lied to the officer or tried to pull some other stunt. Also why would Ukraine pay for his return flight?

[anon789561]

something doesn't add up there

[dabhand]

1 hour ago, Senechal said:

 

Well they have now explained to him that he can't actually fly on the original airline back to the USA as he originally understood.

 

Instead, he has to fly on the Ukrainian airline back to Ukraine and CONNECT to the USA through Kiev.

 

And that can only happen on Monday.

 

So... this is well and truly crazy.  He's stuck in a windowless cell for the next five days at Survanabhumi. Lovely vacation.

 

 

Looking on the Ukrainian Airlines webpage (assuming this is the airline per the OP) their schedules are showing flights from Bangkok to New York, via Kiev, on every day, except Monday. So the 'only happen on Monday' comment does not match with the airline timetable info.

https://www.flyuia.com/ua/en/information/time-flight/timetable

 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

In retrospect, it would seem that choice was a pretty big mistake on his part, unfortunately.

 

Meanwhile, why is no one here asking -- why would Ukraine be deporting a U.S. citizen attempting to enter their country because he had, according to the poster here, a ONE day overstay on his prior tourist visa???

 

By contrast, if you have a tourist visa in Thailand and overstay by one day, you pay a relatively small fine at exit and go on your way. And AFAIK, having a one day overstay in Thailand now doesn't harm or impair your ability to come back later on a subsequent tourist visa...

 

So someone should be asking, what the heck is up with Ukraine?

 

It could be that the Ukraine has different rules than Thailand in regard to overstaying ?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

If he has the funds, he should probably engage a local lawyer asap. He should be at least allowed to book a flight to wherever he wants. Not sure why they would not allow that, especially if he wants to fly home to the US.

Yes, why not let him just buy a ticket to the USA.  What would that hurt?  I used to advise folks to never fly into Thailand with a longer-stay Tourist-entry history.  I am now revising that: 

 

Never fly into Thailand - ever - for any reason. Fly somewhere sane, like Malaysia, then attempt entry to Thailand by Land-Crossing Only.  Risking jail/detention for entering an airport is simply not an option in my book.

 

Also, adding Ukraine to my "never visit under any circumstances" list, along with Australia, the USA, and the UK (even though I have a US-Passport).   I do hope this story gets press world-wide - along with the many similar others.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

It could be that the Ukraine has different rules than Thailand in regard to overstaying ?

 

For starters, the "refused entry for 1 day past overstay" version doesn't seem to fit with the info in post #19 above.

 

And yes, the two countries could well have different rules on overstay. But being refused entry for a 1 day past overstay seems pretty draconian.  And as more info seeps into this topic, more and more details seem not to be matching up very well as to the account of what may have happened.

 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, midas said:

 

I found this rather surprising also and this article seems to suggest it's no big deal (particularly just by  one day) 

 

 

https://ukraineliving.com/overstayed-in-ukraine/

Although that is only about overstaying, that article doesnt mention about when over-stayers return to the Ukraine .

   He may have been banned for a length of time from returning to the Ukraine ?

[sanemax]

Just been reading the Visa rules for the Ukraine .

U.S citizens can enter the Ukraine on a visa exempt stamp and stay for 90 days within any 180 day period .

  If the O.P stayed for one day over his 90 days, he would have stayed for 91 days and therefore could not re enter the Ukraine, because 90 days is the limit and therefore he was refused entry .

   He got refused entry for staying more than 90 days, rather than overstaying by one day

[ukrules]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Just been reading the Visa rules for the Ukraine .

U.S citizens can enter the Ukraine on a visa exempt stamp and stay for 90 days within any 180 day period .

  If the O.P stayed for one day over his 90 days, he would have stayed for 91 days and therefore could not re enter the Ukraine, because 90 days is the limit and therefore he was refused entry .

   He got refused entry for staying more than 90 days, rather than overstaying by one day

That kind of rule sounds familiar.

 

[Tanoshi]

Where's the US diplomats when you need them?

 

I assume someone has contacted his Embassy!

Edited February 1, 2018 by Tanoshi