Air quality is fine in Thailand as Thais say Chinese are exaggerating

[mikebell]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

If the Thai system was used it was all quite safe.

The Thai system never sees problems; whether on the roads; keeping CCTV cameras working; collecting traffic fines; curbing police bandits who steal dartboards; allowing taximeters without meters throughout Pattaya; burning stubble; the list is endless because the Thai way is to look away.

[djayz]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

If the Thai system was used it was all quite safe.

That's the core problem here - Thai "systems", irrespective of what they measure or evaluate, always give the same results ie what the authorities want people to hear. 

The findings aren't worth the paper they're printed on. 

[CGW]

Anyone remember when Bangkok air was really dirty back in the early nineties? They had a huge campaign to clean up the air, they used to check for emissions from trucks etc etc, have they forgotten this, nobody is mentioning all the "illegal" diesel trucks on the roads now!

They did successfully clean up the air back then, guess there lethargy has reached critical limit and they are incapable of action now - denial easier!

[stbkk]

1 hour ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

Sigh: 

 

1. It's not "The Chinese" who are saying anything.  Chinese tourists are quite happy and indeed conditions in most of China are *FAR* worse than Thailand.  What this article is about is the international air quality site, aqicn.org, which is based in Beijing and has contributors globally. 

 

2. The main good thing about aqicn.org is that it takes data from all over the world, including the Thai-government-supplied data from Thailand, and converts it all to the US EPA AQI Index.  This makes comparisons very easy.

 

3. Thailand has both an older PM10 standard (that's not very strict) as well as a newer PM2.5 based standard that matches the US EPA scale very well and is very strict.   This new standard is not yet used throughout Thailand, also because most measuring stations don't have a PM2.5 capability which would lead to comparing apples and oranges, so they stick with the old standard for now.  However they make the PM2.5 data available in near real-time for anyone who wants to use it, such as indeed aqicn.org, NGO's like Greenpeace (who manage to still compare apples and oranges) and a range of mobile apps.   Note: the Thai government app from the PCD departement only uses PM10: don't use it.)

 

4. The government is correct in saying that conditions are pretty normal.  Note that 'Normal' does not mean 'Healthy'. Not in English and not in Thai.  It means that it's very similar to past years, going back 20 years. 

 

Read up or shut up, and that applies to The Nation as well. 

Re 4 above. The government spokesman also says 'If the Thai system is used it was all quite safe'.

[jybkk]

3 hours ago, salween said:

Amazing we have to rely on China to get the truth out. Thainess in a nutshell, as real-time data's available for all--journalists too should they choose to look beyond what the government puts out.  Have not seen PM2.5 below 125 in BKK since I started looking last week--and anything above 25 is supposed to be unhealthy, should one accept WHO standards?

You're mistaking AQI (Index reported by the chinese website) with Particle Density (in µg/m3) as used by the WHO.

See here: http://aqicn.org/faq/2013-09-09/revised-pm25-aqi-breakpoints/

 

WHO Guidelines are : PM2.5: 25 µg/m3 24-hour mean.

Which corresponds to an AQI index of about 70 (which is what we usually get in Bangkok)

 

More about AQI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_quality_index

 

Quote

The score for each pollutant is non-linear, as is the final AQI score. Thus an AQI of 300 does not mean twice the pollution of AQI at 150, nor does it mean the air is twice as harmful. The concentration of a pollutant when its IAQI is 100 does not equal twice its concentration when its IAQI is 50, nor does it mean the pollutant is twice as harmful.

 

The WHO guideline is basically a point below which we're pretty sure that no one has ever been affected. It doesn't mean that going above by a little bit will irremediably makes you sick. 

 

I follow Bangkok AQI for a while already and these past few week have been unusually bad, but there's always a peak in January. Bangkok is usually doing quite decently, oscillating between good and moderate, which is quite okay considering it's a huge metropolis in a developping country,

 

Finally, we're not 'relying on China to get the truth'. Just scroll down on the AQICN page:

Quote

Air Quality Data provided by the Division of Air Quality Data, Air Quality and Noise Management Bureau, Pollution Control Department. (aqmthai.com)

It just so happens that the Chinese website was one of the first one to open itself to data feeds while presenting it in an intelligible way (the thai AQM website still uses flash) so it became the 'de facto' aggregator.

[hansnl]

3 hours ago, coulson said:

Lol, the Chinese commenting on overseas air quality, must be a problem so!

Or a case of Chinese attention diverting.

[MaxLee]

It doesn't take a scientist to recognize that air pollution has been there for many many-danny years, decades and centuries, ever since the first traffic jams in Bangkok....

 

Everything is just unnecessary hype to indirectly blame the circumstances and cause panic among the Somchais here. Who in power ever gives a R*******????

[wotsdermatter]

Having lived in three different parts of China for a total of 3 1/2 years, the Chinese have nothing to complain about.  How many times has China hit the news headlines with its pollution problems and how many times has Thailand done so?  China has no right to complain.  At one place I lived, about 3 hours west of Beijing, things could be so bad that nothing stopped the pollution from getting into my apartment along with its really awful smells.  The pollution which turned out to be created by chemical companies producing companies, fertiliser, etc., and coal-fired electrical generating plants

[dcsw53]

Talerngsak speaking from his office on Ko Phai, said he had been outside just now and the air was fine.

The distorted figure of 165 came from an isolated place called Bangkok with relatuvely few visitors

[masuk]

5 hours ago, badischer Barde said:

Honestly, if the Chinese say your air quality is bad you should worry.

EXACTLY:    from my condo in Chiang Mai, Doi Suthep is rapidly disappearing and the hotels by the river in the other direction can hardly be seen.

I have never seen air this bad in China, and air monitors here are registering high figures.

The view for people flying in from China would be horrifying!

[Micbozy]

It was all relatively normally unhealthy

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

Sigh: 

 

1. It's not "The Chinese" who are saying anything.  Chinese tourists are quite happy and indeed conditions in most of China are *FAR* worse than Thailand.  What this article is about is the international air quality site, aqicn.org, which is based in Beijing and has contributors globally. 

 

2. The main good thing about aqicn.org is that it takes data from all over the world, including the Thai-government-supplied data from Thailand, and converts it all to the US EPA AQI Index.  This makes comparisons very easy.

 

3. Thailand has both an older PM10 standard (that's not very strict) as well as a newer PM2.5 based standard that matches the US EPA scale very well and is very strict.   This new standard is not yet used throughout Thailand, also because most measuring stations don't have a PM2.5 capability which would lead to comparing apples and oranges, so they stick with the old standard for now.  However they make the PM2.5 data available in near real-time for anyone who wants to use it, such as indeed aqicn.org, NGO's like Greenpeace (who manage to still compare apples and oranges) and a range of mobile apps.   Note: the Thai government app from the PCD departement only uses PM10: don't use it.)

 

4. The government is correct in saying that conditions are pretty normal.  Note that 'Normal' does not mean 'Healthy'. Not in English and not in Thai.  It means that it's very similar to past years, going back 20 years. 

 

Read up or shut up, and that applies to The Nation as well. 

PM2.5 is either measured precisely or is calculated on the basis of the PM10 measurement, the latter being really quite accurate - this has been known for years in Thailand and on this forum, the excuse has always been that the measuring equipment is too expensive, today it's not and the argument is irrelevant anyway.

[johnny49r]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

He said that it was all relatively normal for this time of the year.

Yes, the air quality is normal and so is the Thai capacity for denial and passing the buck.

Hell, if the air is OK to breathe why are all the cops wearing masks?

Maybe if we used the 'Thai system' to judge highway carnage I would feel a lot safer!

 

[ToddinChonburi]

So the black suet pumping out of the diesel buses and pickups is nothing to worry about.  Lol

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Same here in dirty Pattaya. A haze hangs over the city and has done so for days. The nearest pollution monitoring site Laem Chabang shows a "moderate" 93. But the AQI has been into the mid to high 100 indices for many days.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[Rimmer]

A profane post has been removed:

 

[Eligius]

All I can say is that I have certainly been having (and continue to have) difficulty with breathing over the last few days. The air quality is, in my experience, much worse than it has been in a long while.

[newnative]

    Just take a look at the edge of your ceiling fan blades if you haven't cleaned them in awhile.  Yes, you're breathing in that same gray/black gunk that's on the edge of the blades.  

[Maestro]

4 hours ago, salween said:

Amazing we have to rely on China to get the truth out. Thainess in a nutshell, as real-time data's available for all--journalists too should they choose to look beyond what the government puts out.  Have not seen PM2.5 below 125 in BKK since I started looking last week--and anything above 25 is supposed to be unhealthy, should one accept WHO standards?

 

I like the data display in your screenshot. Could you post the URL of the website?

 

I am using the AirVisual app on the phone but it does not show all relevant data on one screen.

[Media1]

The stupid government allowing the even dumber police to do nothing about these illegal vehicles drive on the roads.

And no the air is not good you clowns.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Media1

[wolfmuc]

Good air. This is Bern, Switzerland...

http://aqicn.org/city/switzerland/bern-bollwerk/

or:   aqicn.org

[Bob1million]

These people really just more excuses let's face it they just can't fix the pollution problem so they make up stories hoping that soon it will just go away

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[PhonThong]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Source?

Bangkok Post today.

Or if you like.

www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30338598

Edited February 13, 2018 by PhonThong

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 hours ago, Dibbler said:

This is the air quality in downtown Bangkok now http://aqicn.org/city/bangkok/

And this is the air quality in Chiang May now http://aqicn.org/city/chiang-mai/

And this is the air quality in Beijing now http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/

The Chinese are NOT lying! Bangkok air has almost three times the PM count and is UNHEALTHY.  GoT needs to take action not ignore facts!

Beijing is back to normal!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

4. The government is correct in saying that conditions are pretty normal.  Note that 'Normal' does not mean 'Healthy'. Not in English and not in Thai. 

It would be interesting to go back and see year by year how the numbers for Bangkok have changed, or not, using the same AQI index, for whatever period of years comparable data is available.

 

[Jonmarleesco]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

If the Thai system was used it was all quite safe

Ah, there is the crux of the matter.

 

WHO safe limit <25. Thai safe limit <50. Current levels, in the three-figure range. And forget China; there are international monitors that dispute the Thai interpretation.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

 

I like the data display in your screenshot. Could you post the URL of the website?

 

Here's the website:

 

http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/bangkok/chulalongkorn-hospital/

 

And here's the midday report for central BKK on Tuesday:

 

 

PS - It's NORMAL to be unhealthy for sensitive groups.... Didn't you get the Thai memo???

 

[Antioc]

I have attached the Global Pollution Report captured this morning around 7.30 am Thai time.  It really says it all.  I find the Chinese News on CGTN pretty good actually.

[Antioc]

The wife and I ended up going to DuHome and getting a Hitachi EP-A3000 Air Purifier for just under 5,000 Baht.  It has made all the difference to sleeping and wellbeing.  The specs are on the Internet.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Antioc

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, Jonmarleesco said:

Ah, there is the crux of the matter.

 

WHO safe limit <25. Thai safe limit <50. Current levels, in the three-figure range. And forget China; there are international monitors that dispute the Thai interpretation.

It depends how the measurement is taken, over what period of time. A snapshot value of PM2.5 is meaningless, the WHO guidelines suggest 25 μg/m³ 24-hour mean, or, 10 μg/m³ annual mean - I'm not clear at all where the Thai system of 48 hours fits in and whteher that's continuous measurement or what.

 

Also, the WHO says that more than 92% of the worlds population lives in places where the guidelines are not met: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs313/en/