9 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

You also know it was 35% of the electorate that voted to remain ??

In the surreal world inhabited by remainers, the 28% who did not vote, abstained or were just too lazy to vote were remainers ??

 

Ergo, we should remain in the EU.

 

 

12 hours ago, aright said:

Are you really advocating that sought of clout.

The EU Ceta deal would have eliminated 98% of the tariffs between the EU and Canada and would have saved the EU 500 million euros annually . 27 of the member states were for it . The population of Wallonia 3.6 million denied the population of the EU 500 million the benefits of that deal.

Is this your sort of governance and democracy? 

 

 

Of course not, so do not twist my words to suggest something contrary in order to make a cheap dig.

It was stated that Scotland in the EU would have no powers  I give you an example which proves that small countries can have a large impact.

54 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

In the surreal world inhabited by remainers, the 28% who did not vote, abstained or were just too lazy to vote were remainers ??

 

Ergo, we should remain in the EU.

 

 

Please don’t throw percentages and facts at the intelligentsia, it will only serve to discombobulate them.

13 hours ago, The Renegade said:

My My My, showing your ignorance again. Wallonia has no clout in the EU, where it had its clout was within Belgium, when the Belgium Government voted on CETA.

 

100 lines

 

Must try harder.

 

Well even a BVreexiteer such as yourself managed to fill in the dots so I guess the message was basic enough for almost anyone to understand.

 

But I am glad that you finally accept that a small country in the EU has a lot of clout.

10 hours ago, aright said:

The Belgian government did support the region at the expense of 27 member states who wanted the deal  because of an estimated increase of 20 % in trade as a result of the elimination of 98% of the tariffs. The interests of 0.007% of the EU population prevented a deal which would benefit 500 million people

Belgium's Dutch-speaking Flanders region, Geert Bourgeois, said the blockage was "a real shame"."We're the laughing stock of the whole world," said the centre-right leader, quoted by Reuters news agency. "It's bad for Wallonia, for Flanders, for Belgium, for Europe, for the whole world."

How did Wallonia's stand steer EU policy?

 

 

The episode was a total failure of diplomacy and foresight, and should never have got to that stage, but the issue is not about CETA - it is about the ability for small countries within the EU to have significant influence over it.

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

But I am glad that you finally accept that a small country in the EU has a lot of clout.

Squirm, twist and wriggle.

 

Your assertion was that a small region of Belgium ( Wallonia ) had clout in the EU

 

Post 7606

 

Quote

That a tiny region of Belgium, not even the country itself, can put a halt to the EU-Canada trade deal suggests that they have a lot more clout in the EU than Scotland has in the UK

Can you hear that noise ?

 

That is the sound of you going down in flames. 

18 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Disappointing to see that the traditions of Brexiteers misrepresenting the truth - or simply inventing their own reality haven't gone away.

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Disappointing to see that the traditions of Brexiteers misrepresenting the truth - or simply inventing their own reality haven't gone away. 

Have you now converted to leave ?

 

Post 606

 

Quote

That a tiny region of Belgium, not even the country itself, can put a halt to the EU-Canada trade deal suggests that they have a lot more clout in the EU than Scotland has in the UK

 

37 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

But I am glad that you finally accept that a small country in the EU has a lot of clout.

 

That tiny region that you mention ( Wallonia ) is not Belgium and it is not a small Country in the EU.

 

You are going down faster than the Belgrano. 

 

6 hours ago, adammike said:

You also know it was 37% of the electorate that voted to leave .

 

And what was the percentage of the electorate that voted to stay?

1 minute ago, yogi100 said:

 

And what was the percentage of the electorate that voted to stay?

I have already answered that ...... it was 35% 

14 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

If we were playing Brexit bingo, I think you would have gotten a full house with that post. There aren't many of those well worn motifs you didn't touch upon.

 

I am not sure that I insulted anyone in my post - did I? You, on the other hand, have made reference to upsetting 'liberals and snowflakes' but, don't worry, I am not so thin skinned.  

 

To my surprise, this thread has been remarkably free of the G word which, I understand, is considered even more offensive than the N word.

 

P.S. Yogi mate, please familiarise yourself with the Forum rules - you are not allowed to edit anyone else's post in any way, and that includes making font bold.

 

 

Oh thank's for telling me. I don't want to get into any trouble.

59 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Have you now converted to leave ?

 

Post 606

 

 

 

That tiny region that you mention ( Wallonia ) is not Belgium and it is not a small Country in the EU.

 

You are going down faster than the Belgrano. 

 

No need to derail this towards the Malvinas and Thatcher's war crimes.

 

7 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

With the new system it is impossible to backtrack and find the post where you said "the Germans had no intention of expanding to the East of Europe" in WWII.

 

The leaflet is interesting, did you read it at the time?

 

I have read some of the other posts you have made and it is quite obvious you have little if any understanding of what is happening and why it is essential the UK leaves the EU entirely.

 

Your Churchill quotes are a joke, he was a politician and made many statements on European integration. Pick one for your own ends.

 

Here's a quote from Tony Benn...

https://youtu.be/dQY2CHx4d3U

 

Oh, and did you have a vote in June 2016?

 

??

 

 

 

 

George  Thank you very much for that link to Tony Benn. I was fascinated by it. It should be COMPULSORY for ALL MPs to study and learn from.

Commentary: The EU’s Italian nightmare

 

 

Quote

The aspiration for a United States of Europe, now articulated only by the lonely figure of French President Emmanuel Macron, is in tatters.

That is a good description

 

Quote

If the new administration keeps its nerve and will, it is committed to a strategy of confrontation with the Union it helped found and now may destroy.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lloyd-italy-commentary/commentary-the-eus-italian-nightmare-idUSKCN1IQ29A

 

Will the EU Institutions ever wake up to the fact that it is their Policies and interference that is ultimately going to blow the EU up ?

 

Will the EU Institutions ever wake up to the fact that if it does not return to a Trading Block, the EU is going to blow up ?

 

I do not believe that they are that stupid to be unable to see this. So I have to draw the conclusion that they are so greedy for money and power that they do not care.

 

Great Institution to be part of.

 

This is an amazing speech by Peter Shore, one of Labour’s finest ever politicians. Watch the squirming traitor Ted Heath in the background, the man that had just been told by Geoffrey Rippon, "If we want to enter the EEC (as it was then known) we will have to sacrifice Britain's  fishermen”

 

Ironic that it took a labour politician to expose the potentially disastrous consequences for the British people of joining the EEC (EU)

 

The birth of fear mongering 

How many Brexiteers does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

Two. One to promise a brighter future and the second to screw it up

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

How many Brexiteers does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

Two. One to promise a brighter future and the second to screw it up

The gift that keeps on giving continues.

 

Living proof, yet again, that remainers are highly educated and highly intelligent is a complete fallacy.

How many Brexiteers does it take to change a lightbulb?
 
Two. One to promise a brighter future and the second to screw it up

How many remainers does it take to keep you in the dark? Lots because they cant agree that a brexiteer bought the right bulb.

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This from the Rugby Club last night.

 

Nelson Mandela is sitting at home watching the telly when he hears a knock at the door.
When he opens it, he is confronted by a little Chinese man, clutching a clip board and yelling, "You sign! You sign!"
Behind him is an enormous truck full of car exhausts. Nelson is standing there in complete amazement, when the Chinese man starts to yell louder. "You sign! You sign!"
Nelson says to him, "Look mate, you've obviously got the wrong bloke. Push off", and shuts the door in his face.

The next day he hears a knock at the door again. When he opens it, the little Chinese man is back with a huge truck of brake pads.
He thrusts his clipboard under Nelson's nose, yelling, "You sign! You sign!". Mr Mandela is getting a bit hacked off by now, so he shoves the little Chinese man back, shouting:
"Look, push off! You've got the wrong bloke! I don't want them!"
Then he slams the door in his face again.

The following day, Nelson is resting, and late in the afternoon, he hears a knock on the door again.
On opening the door, there is the same little Chinese man thrusts a clipboard under his nose, shouting "You sign! You sign!"
Behind him are TWO very large trucks full of car parts.
This time Nelson loses his temper completely, he picks up the little man by his shirt front and yells at him;
"Look, I don't want these! Do you understand? You must have the wrong name! Who do you want to give these to?"

The little Chinese man looks at him very puzzled, consults his clipboard, and says:
"You not Nissan Maindealer?"

44 minutes ago, tebee said:

How many Brexiteers does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

Two. One to promise a brighter future and the second to screw it up

Oh dear tebee, I don’t think anyone objects strongly to the insults, but the total lack of humor and originality, are as cringeworthy as anything David Brent in ‘The Office” could ever hope to match …… I hope that on reflection, you are suitably embarrassed

EU's Barnier urges UK to accept EU court deal for Brexit

 

Quote

EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier warned Britain on Saturday that failing to agree a deal on the governance of a withdrawal treaty which preserves the primacy of the EU court would mean no treaty and no transition period.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-barnier/eus-barnier-urges-uk-to-accept-eu-court-deal-for-brexit-idUSKCN1IR08H?il=0

 

As I, and many others have said on many occasions. The EU is not interested in anything other than tying the UK to Brussels and the ECJ.

 

Barnier has just confirmed the ECJ part.

 

Time to stop messing around. Letter issued to the European Council on Monday stating that on 29 March 2019 the UK leaves the EU and WTO rules apply immediately. No further negotiation necessary.

 

Let the other 27 turn on the EU, which they will, like dogs on heat.

Did you actually read the article you refer to? Barnier’s position is clear and logical and the only way forward. If you leave the club you cannot at the same time alter the rules of the club.

Like you said: time to stop messing around. And good luck with WTO rules...... Enjoy the jump off the cliff.


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A post has been edited of an incorrect quote.

A duplicate post has been removed.

Two replies have also been removed

4 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

Did you actually read the article you refer to? Barnier’s position is clear and logical and the only way forward. If you leave the club you cannot at the same time alter the rules of the club.

???

 

When you leave a club the rules no longer apply.

 

What a pity that the EU, Barnier and YOU do not understand this.

 

Another epic failure for the highly educated remainer club.

 

    I can't believe there are still people here who think we could simply walk away from the negotiations and start trading on WTO terms on March 2019. For Christ sake, forget this fantasy once and for all. Even die hard Brexiteers wouldn't want the consequences of doing so.

 

It would be as bad as literally having no fresh food in supermarket shelves as there is no way the UK will be able to build up customs capacity in Dover for 10,000 lorries a day. Our entire food supply chain would break down, both ways. If we just let EU imports in without checks we will be open for litigation in WTO and in violation of numerous international treaties. And our farmers and fish processing factories would still be shut out.

 

We would have to shut down our nuclear power plants as trade in nuclear materials and equipment with the EU and third countries would be no more covered by Euratom.

Aviation would stop or become prohibitively expensive as we are again out of EU aviation agreements also with third countries.

 

Companies would be overwhelmed as they are nowhere near prepared to deal with EU customs and regulatory checks. Supply chains for the car industry would break down. Also existing contracts would be open to legal chaos as nobody knows if and how EU laws underpinning them still apply.

 

So no, walking away is NOT AN OPTION. The government knows that, the EU knows that, even Boris Johnson knows that.

 

Brexiteers will of course blame Remainers for the lack of preparation. But even if we had started to prepare immediately after the vote we wouldn't be ready. Doing Brexit properly will take 10 years minimum. It took Greenland (!) three years to leave the EU institutions and that was in the 80ies. The only industry Greenland has is fishing. To unwind a complex 21st century economy like Britain from a large portion of its legal framework, supply chains, international treaties and business relations will take far longer. 10 years might even be the lower end of realistic estimates.
 

5 hours ago, The Renegade said:

EU's Barnier urges UK to accept EU court deal for Brexit

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-barnier/eus-barnier-urges-uk-to-accept-eu-court-deal-for-brexit-idUSKCN1IR08H?il=0

 

As I, and many others have said on many occasions. The EU is not interested in anything other than tying the UK to Brussels and the ECJ.

 

Barnier has just confirmed the ECJ part.

 

Time to stop messing around. Letter issued to the European Council on Monday stating that on 29 March 2019 the UK leaves the EU and WTO rules apply immediately. No further negotiation necessary.

 

Let the other 27 turn on the EU, which they will, like dogs on heat.

 

 Yesterday, Ireland voted in a referendum. To remove any scope for doubt, in advance of the vote, the Irish Government set out in detail what would follow in the event that the referendum proposal is carried. Even though the divisions between the opposing camps are even deeper than the split between leave/remain in the UK, both sides in Ireland are crystal clear about what our referendum result means.

 

In the UK referendum, the electorate was presented with an ambiguous and contradictory proposal, predicated on the false assumption that Britain would have sufficient leverage to impose its terms on the other side. Now that this false assumption has been exploded, the UK Government has become paralysed. The choice facing Mr Davis is a real world menu of constrained and unpleasant realities, none of which conform with “the will of the people”.

 

And this latter point is crucial. A hard Brexit, with all of the economic disruptions that are entailed, does not conform any more closely with “the will of the people” than a decision to remain.

 

M. Barnier is entirely correct. The UK Government must now step up to the plate and govern i.e. make decisions based on the unpleasant choices that are before it. And it seems that a soft Brexit, including inter alia some continued role for the ECJ, is all that is feasible. To contend that a sensible compromise along these lines constitutes some sort of betrayal is nonsense.
 

The Brexit deal we are getting ( always assuming we do brexit ) is nothing like what we were promised - so is the referendum result still valid ?

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-leave-customs-payment_uk_5b07df7ce4b0fdb2aa527b9a

It is obvious that Brexit has so many details and facets which the propaganda politicians never considered in advance.

All of these screaming politicians have virtually no knowledge  of detailed trade flows, international trade and customs law and from the 100,000 EU project contracts in detail.

 

It was clear from the outset that brexit could not be solved comprehensively in 2 years.

If everybody knews that trade agreements usually take 7-10 years (see Canada or Japan).

And with brexit, the aggravation and dissolution negotiations are added to make matters worse and time consuming.

 

That is and was known to the howler monkeys in advance. 

Here, the entire population was simply lied to.

 

What we are experiencing here is the political spectacle of impossibility given from the outset, if the Brexit is to be completed with the least possible damage for both sides.