Query: Why Is Cm Not Like What It Used To Be?

[Blinky Bill]

Just wondering why in the 80-90's the ex-pat community in Chiang Mai consisted of mostly good folks who were doing good things on real wages.

These days there are still plenty doing the right thing but there are so many youngsters who just hang around here to work in the pseudo-english teaching fraterntiy for very basic wages and all they want to do is take pi_ss out of those who create a good profitable business that benefits both the Thai people and foreign community.

I can't imagine the new ex-pat (loose terminology) will ever earn the respect that the real Chiang Mai ex-pat has earned.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Man, are you trolling or what?!

[Blinky Bill]

Man, are you trolling or what?!

Not at all DSK. Just an interested old timer.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm afraid that it is because old time expats really had to want to live here to be here. Now it is so easy to come and go and get long term visas that we are getting swamped with people who only come here to save a dollar and have no love at all for Siam. They whine and cry and want everything to be just like home, except cheaper and don't recognize that in the Far East, Western goods and services are luxuries.

I'm sure that you remember when we used to have to go all the way to Penang every 2 months or so to get a visa and we felt that it was worth it to live here. Many of the newbies pretty much hate the place and would pack up and be on a flight home in a second flat if it wasn't all so easy.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Well, it's trollesque

As a member of the CM teaching community I don't understand how some people seem content to make a career for such low wages. I know one guy seems content to make 12,000 a month. I work at a larger, pretty reputable school. I was advised by Peaceboy not to mention the name of the school in connection to myself. Suffice to say it is one of the largest around.

I make okay money, I have some investments which supplement it - but if I had kids it would be hard going! I am going back to the UK to do an MA in September - so that will be one less newbie (if 6 years in CM makes me a newbie).

Even although my wife is Thai I don't think we'll come back to live in LOS for a long time. The rules and regs get me down - epsecially when I see how easy it is for my wife to live and intergrate in British society (high or otherwise). I love Thailand and I know I will always have a special place for it in my heart - it's just at times it doesn't feel like that feeling is reciprocated.

[Maejo Man]

Just wondering why in the 80-90's the ex-pat community in Chiang Mai consisted of mostly good folks who were doing good things on real wages. .................

I can't imagine the new ex-pat (loose terminology) will ever earn the respect that the real Chiang Mai ex-pat has earned.

Possibly because a good proportion of the old ex pats have passed on, and the place just isn't the same.

You "moved on" as a lot of others have done over the years. The remainder seem to have shrivelled up into obscurity.

The "Brothers West".....one dead, one in outer space, "Dodo" somewhere drunk in Pattaya, E.R. Greer...likewise.

It's just a sign of the times mate, that nothing is for ever, sadly. Never fear!! There is still a hardcore left

[chuchok]

Just wondering why in the 80-90's the ex-pat community in Chiang Mai consisted of mostly good folks who were doing good things on real wages.

These days there are still plenty doing the right thing but there are so many youngsters who just hang around here to work in the pseudo-english teaching fraterntiy for very basic wages and all they want to do is take pi_ss out of those who create a good profitable business that benefits both the Thai people and foreign community.

I can't imagine the new ex-pat (loose terminology) will ever earn the respect that the real Chiang Mai ex-pat has earned.

Depends on what you think by "earning" respect?

A bit like the yorkshire men from Monty Python saying "When I was a lad, we used to live in paper bag by road...."

Things change,people change.That's life.

I know a couple of teaches here that work very hard for their money.I have also never heard them slagging off people in profitable business.

[Ulysses G.]

A bit like the yorkshire men from Monty Python saying "When I was a lad, we used to live in paper bag by road...."

[Briggsy]

Somebody here will know the Sanskrit-Pali word for impermanence.

[Ulysses G.]

Just wondering why in the 80-90's the ex-pat community in Chiang Mai consisted of mostly good folks who were doing good things on real wages.

These days there are still plenty doing the right thing

By the way, I agree with Blinky Bill that there are a lot of new people and teachers who are great to have around and make this a better place to live. It's just that there a lot of newer expats who are negative about pretty much everything in the LOS, but don't have the courtesy to do us all a favor and go back where they came from.

[Rasseru]

By the way, I agree with Blinky Bill that there are a lot of new people . . . who are great to have around and make this a better place to live.

Now that is a relief to hear! . . . . Oh, you didn't mean me? Well, may I still hope that Blinky did?

[john b good]

I've been here around 15 years and I really love the place, otherwise I wouldn't be here.

I do however find some things that I can criticize (plenty when I come to think about it "like the crazy bastard that killed around 22 people just out of town last Thursday morning")

The thing is that when I go through the checks and balances I would rather be here than back home. So I am here!

BUT whilst I love it I wouldn't get out of bed for 12,000 baht/month (as someone mentioned) to do anything. I would rather work for free.

But, at the end of the day what really gets up my nose is some one who comes here once or twice and then assumes the mantle of an expert.

I think that I know what you mean though BB. It's not the same as it was "that's for sure"

[Ajarn]

I'm afraid that it is because old time expats really had to want to live here to be here. Now it is so easy to come and go and get long term visas that we are getting swamped with people who only come here to save a dollar and have no love at all for Siam. They whine and cry and want everything to be just like home, except cheaper and don't recognize that in the Far East, Western goods and services are luxuries.

I'm sure that you remember when we used to have to go all the way to Penang every 2 months or so to get a visa and we felt that it was worth it to live here. Many of the newbies pretty much hate the place and would pack up and be on a flight home in a second flat if it wasn't all so easy.

Not to mention the tax clearence certificate we all needed each time we left the country for any reason. My first experience with corruption and the government..

I look back as a 'winner' rather than a loser, especially if I compare with most of the newbies here. I feel like I did something great by living here and I feel like I was a ground breaker, when you think about the lack of internet and english tv... and hamburgers.. I mean how many people have stayed here and had decent lives? I've seen the vast majority of farangs I've met here fail at being happy in this great place. I feel sad about them, but also happy to have learned my lesson from their failure..

[Austhaied]

Somebody here will know the Sanskrit-Pali word for impermanence.

Anicca..

[Wizzard of Oz]

I'm afraid that it is because old time expats really had to want to live here to be here. Now it is so easy to come and go and get long term visas that we are getting swamped with people who only come here to save a dollar and have no love at all for Siam. They whine and cry and want everything to be just like home, except cheaper and don't recognize that in the Far East, Western goods and services are luxuries.

I can't speak for any others but this is a cop out as far as I'm concerned.

I'm relatively young, and here because its a place I never imagined could exist. People are actually happy and smiling, and incredibly friendly here. I definitely have love for Chiang Mai (not so much the rest of thailand though).

I like that it is cheap, but that's not the reason I stay. A lot of other Asian countries are cheap but aren't quite the paradise that Chiang Mai is.

I definitely don't want it to be anything like home. Western society sucks more than an inverted hurricane.

I'm sure that you remember when we used to have to go all the way to Penang every 2 months or so to get a visa and we felt that it was worth it to live here. Many of the newbies pretty much hate the place and would pack up and be on a flight home in a second flat if it wasn't all so easy.

I'm in KL right now for my 3 month visa cuz of the new rules since October, and KL is the total inverse of Chiang Mai. In CM, heaps of people smile, are happy, laid back, friendly. The place is reasonably clean, stuff is very cheap, and life in general is paradise. In KL, people are not friendly leeerhy, never ever smile, are never happy, are too busy to enjoy their life. The place is filthy, stuff is cheaper than western society but twice the cost of CM. I think while Chiang Mai is exactly like what I imagine heaven to be like, KL is what I imagine hel_l would be like. True suckage.

And I feel that this trip to kl for 10k baht is definitely worth it to stay in paradise another 3 months.

Just wondering why in the 80-90's the ex-pat community in Chiang Mai consisted of mostly good folks who were doing good things on real wages.

These days there are still plenty doing the right thing but there are so many youngsters who just hang around here to work in the pseudo-english teaching fraterntiy for very basic wages and all they want to do is take pi_ss out of those who create a good profitable business that benefits both the Thai people and foreign community.

I can't imagine the new ex-pat (loose terminology) will ever earn the respect that the real Chiang Mai ex-pat has earned.

Hmm ... I guess while I love my life here, I'm a bit ashamed to say that I don't really contribute to society here. Between working (on the net, so not working "in thailand" as such), going to the gym, learning thai, and going out evenings, I don't have a lot of time left. Maybe this will change after I've learnt some thai and don't spend 4-5 hours a day on it.

Though starting a business sounds like way too much work .. for me at least. Maybe something volunteering, but definitely too lazy to start a business here (or anywhere).

Btw, what exactly did the "old ex-pat community" do that deserved the respect you speak of?

Regards,

WoZ

[Jonson83]

"In my day we used to sleep in a paper bag on the side of the road"

lol that pretty much says it all about this thread.

How the hel_l can anyone critisize people for teaching for low wages?? Teaching Thai kids english for low wages is a REAL benifit to the Thais? How can you knock it? Youve got to own your own buisness to be respected or something? what a load of <deleted>.

Typical superior expat nonsense.I have a general rule as far as expats go.For every good one there is,you get a complete nobhead who thinks hes gods gift to the yellow people of Siam.I remember talking to one prick in a bar on the moonmuang who was telling me how most people coming to Thailand were desperate and worthless back in their own country.But that was only in the last 4 years,anyone before then was ok.When did this guy first arrive in Thailand...? 5 years ago.What a nob.

Funny thing is,its so similar to the 'uber traveller' mentality .They think because they were here first,that they own the place.Very,very sad.

Aswell.Why are you guys so bloody ageist?? Whats that all about? Only 7% of the males on this forum are below the age of 30 ..and it shows.

Really tho,you knock us youngsters for doing what exactly? Not spending enough time at Spotlight? or other bars on the Loikrok road? Do we not contribute enough to the local BG economy for your liking?

@ OP,sorry if this comes across a bit harsh m8.

[BlackArtemis]

I am here because I love teaching, I love my students, I love Thailand and the Thai people. I came here to study at CMU back in 05 and realized I wanted to get back soon, so I did.

I now am planning my wedding to a beautiful Thai girl and my TEFL masters will begin the next year.

But I agree I have met a few younger people/teachers in the past year who are not here for such great reasons. hel_l I met people here who have been here for 10+ years and they hate thai people, thai food and cannot speak a word of Thai. I think it might be easy to write off the young crowd because there is such a big tourist backpacking crowd, but there are plenty who wish to make CM their new home.

[BlackArtemis]

Also what did you mean taking this piss outta the old guys who set up businesses? I don't grasp what you mean.

[Billfo]

what a rediculous post.

Saying that the new wave of expats don't want to be in Thailand? Yeah your really correct there, I've spent around £1500 on flights and TEFL course, just so I can get there and wish I wasn't there.

Or maybe your just pissed that the twenty-something thai ladies are paying more attention to the twenty-something expats than the 'senior' ones....

[Ulysses G.]

Really tho,you knock us youngsters for doing what exactly? Not spending enough time at Spotlight? or other bars on the Loikrok road? Do we not contribute enough to the local BG economy for your liking?

Far from it.

My pet peeve is with all these youngsters that go down to Spotlight and the Housewives Club and get married to the girls to save on bar fines. It makes it hard for entertainment businesses to keep a decent staff.

In my day, we used to marry a teacher or something and leave the Spotlight girls to earn an honest living!

[thomo]

IME it's us young'un's that are happy/grateful to be in such a beautiful place, and the older one's that are largely either bitter and ageist {see example below} or just unhappy. I can't ever recall meeting someone under the age of 35 who wasn't happy and respectful to be living here.

Just wondering why in the 80-90's the ex-pat community in Chiang Mai consisted of mostly good folks who were doing good things on real wages.

These days there are still plenty doing the right thing but there are so many youngsters who just hang around here to work in the pseudo-english teaching fraterntiy for very basic wages and all they want to do is take pi_ss out of those who create a good profitable business that benefits both the Thai people and foreign community.

Go on, gve us an example of how you witnessed someone trying to take the piss out of some of those who've created a good profitable business.

I can't imagine the new ex-pat (loose terminology) will ever earn the respect that the real Chiang Mai ex-pat has earned.

I can't imagine the new-expats have too much respect for old, bitter, ageist, whingers either.

Edited January 23, 2007 by thomo

[chuchok]

The 'Four Yorkshiremen' Sketch

Four well-dressed men sitting together at a vacation resort. "Farewell to Thee" being played in the background on Hawaiian guitar.

Michael Palin: Ahh.. Very passable, this, very passable.

Graham Chapman: Nothing like a good glass of Chateau de Chassilier wine, ay Gessiah?

Terry Gilliam: You're right there Obediah.

Eric Idle: Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Chateau de Chassilier wine?

MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.

GC: A cup ' COLD tea.

EI: Without milk or sugar.

TG: OR tea!

MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.

EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.

GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

TG: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.

MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness."

EI: 'E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN'. We used to live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof.

GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING!

TG: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a corridor!

MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph.

EI: Well when I say "house" it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpaulin, but it was a house to US.

GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and live in a lake!

TG: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.

MP: Cardboard box?

TG: Aye.

MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, out Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

TG: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.

EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

ALL: Nope, nope..

Edited January 23, 2007 by chuchok

[BKK03]

Just wondering why in the 80-90's the ex-pat community in Chiang Mai consisted of mostly good folks who were doing good things on real wages.

These days there are still plenty doing the right thing but there are so many youngsters who just hang around here to work in the pseudo-english teaching fraterntiy for very basic wages and all they want to do is take pi_ss out of those who create a good profitable business that benefits both the Thai people and foreign community.

I can't imagine the new ex-pat (loose terminology) will ever earn the respect that the real Chiang Mai ex-pat has earned.

[ThaiPauly]

The 'Four Yorkshiremen' Sketch

Four well-dressed men sitting together at a vacation resort. "Farewell to Thee" being played in the background on Hawaiian guitar.

Michael Palin: Ahh.. Very passable, this, very passable.

Graham Chapman: Nothing like a good glass of Chateau de Chassilier wine, ay Gessiah?

Terry Gilliam: You're right there Obediah.

Eric Idle: Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Chateau de Chassilier wine?

MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.

GC: A cup ' COLD tea.

EI: Without milk or sugar.

TG: OR tea!

MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.

EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.

GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

TG: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.

MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness."

EI: 'E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN'. We used to live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof.

GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING!

TG: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a corridor!

MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph.

EI: Well when I say "house" it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpaulin, but it was a house to US.

GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and live in a lake!

TG: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.

MP: Cardboard box?

TG: Aye.

MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, out Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

TG: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.

EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

ALL: Nope, nope..

Priceless...I remember most of it..but it certainly made me smile.

I do not really want to get involved in this thread...personally I think its pretty pointless

[richard10365]

I can't imagine the new ex-pat (loose terminology) will ever earn the respect that the real Chiang Mai ex-pat has earned.

I don't think the new ex-pats give a rats ass what the "real Chiang Mai ex-pats" think.

[mongoose]

in the 80-90's the ex-pat community in Chiang Mai consisted of mostly good folks who were doing good things on real wages.

and a bunch of it in the Karen Hut Bar. What happened to that great place, did it move?

[Blinky Bill]

IME it's us young'un's that are happy/grateful to be in such a beautiful place, and the older one's that are largely either bitter and ageist {see example below} or just unhappy. I can't ever recall meeting someone under the age of 35 who wasn't happy and respectful to be living here.

You can't have met too many people then. Or seen the drunken idiots performing.

Go on, gve us an example of how you witnessed someone trying to take the piss out of some of those who've created a good profitable business.

Below is a PM I received from one of the younger expats after I replied to his posting on a thread which he started that was promptly removed by the mods. The post was totally derogatory towards the owner of this succesful business. No names mentioned.

The bit about being widely hated in the expat community is far from the truth.

Hi,

I'm using a friend's account because I have been banned by TV. Thanks for your message insulting me.

It's all OK...I just wanted to get it off my chest that (name removed) is a total hypocrite, ###### and scrumbag who can't have a relationship with a woman unless she is a prostitute, and a cheap one at that.

This creepy guy is widely hated in the expat community here. If you don't hate him, then you just haven't gotten to know the guy.

Have a nice day.

[p1p]

Far from it.

My pet peeve is with all these youngsters that go down to Spotlight and the Housewives Club and get married to the girls to save on bar fines. It makes it hard for entertainment businesses to keep a decent staff.

In my day, we used to marry a teacher or something and leave the Spotlight girls to earn an honest living!

U.G. marry a teacher! :bah: TWBTD! :D

Must say,, as long as you are here, the round-heeled ladies of fun repute will never be short of a bit of amusement!

[Ulysses G.]

Far from it.

My pet peeve is with all these youngsters that go down to Spotlight and the Housewives Club and get married to the girls to save on bar fines. It makes it hard for entertainment businesses to keep a decent staff.

In my day, we used to marry a teacher or something and leave the Spotlight girls to earn an honest living!

U.G. marry a teacher! :D TWBTD! :D

Must say,, as long as you are here, the round-heeled ladies of fun repute will never be short of a bit of amusement!

Well, they will never be short of cash anyway.

[Blinky Bill]

what a rediculous post.

Saying that the new wave of expats don't want to be in Thailand? Yeah your really correct there, I've spent around £1500 on flights and TEFL course, just so I can get there and wish I wasn't there.

Or maybe your just pissed that the twenty-something thai ladies are paying more attention to the twenty-something expats than the 'senior' ones....

Wow, you sure are a high roller.

Not at all pissed that the twenty (years old?) something Thai ladies pay more attention to the twenty (years old?) something expats than us senior ones. Been there and done it all to many times. The often highly intelligent conversations in the Karen Hut and Linda's were somewhat above my level of comprehension particularly when the young lady was in a highly inebriated state.

Actually I think the twenty (years old?) something Thai ladies would be more impressed with a 250,000-350,000 baht monthly salary than one of 15,000-30,000 baht....................

Edited January 24, 2007 by Blinky Bill