Humans first - soi dogs second! Thais now advocating "the final solution"

[smew]

Bravo, too late for 2 little boys(separate occasions) that got mauled and killed last year in Bangkok by strays. No talking about it, just do it in a humane way!

[Airbagwill]

11 minutes ago, Rayscape said:

Well very interesting, certainly some of the comments. However the real problem, is an over population of the human race ( a cull? ). Also their typical reaction of blaming these problems on the animals, rather than looking at the real issue! That is, people keeping pets, and not being bothered to have them snipped. I live on a little island in Greece. A wealthy Swedish women deposited a large amount of money, at the local vets, for the islanders to have their pets snipped for free. This was well published.  Well in 4 years, not one Greek has been to have their pet/pets snipped. They either dump them at dustbins, or in the dustbins, or they throw them in our garden. Yes we now have 28 cats, all snipped. If you cannot afford to keep a pet? Then do not get one in the first place. Education, I generally thought was the issue with the locals, however from reading some of the comments here, a few others need to their heads out of the sand. Or wherever it happens to be at this time? Please do not come back with " The Thai's cannot afford this ". 

I have pointed out several times that islands are not the same as mainland diogs populations.

If youhave a relatively small isolated population, neutering, vaccinations culls even work. But with a ppopulationof hundreds and thousands scattered around the mainland, th situation is completley different. If you remove any animals they are rapidly replaced withy critters from ajoining areas.

One has to address the base causes of t popualtion and that is food - as suplies in garbage or by misguided people feeding them.

[jobwolf]

5 hours ago, Darcula said:

 

Origins of this movement here have been traced back to the year 543 BC.

Bloody hell, you are old!

 

[Xaos]

Here's Burmese boy in thailand bitten by dog. Died from rabies.

 

Terrible virus

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Airbagwill]

22 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Amazing isn't it. Means that 'sometimes' he won't get bitten.

Probably gives the 'owner' an out if he has a photo of it with the muzzle on it,  see, can't be my dog.

Unfortunately, if you take a sick dog to a vet in Thailand, very few will een consider putting it down.

They will just wait for it to recover or die.

With this attitude I find it very hard to believe any cull will continue for very long - it will be a waste of time from beginning to its ignominious end.

[Xaos]

[natway09]

You need a semi  auto 22 calibre rifled rifle.

In the right hands (careful whats behind the target)

Head shot & the  dog will not even yelp or feel a thing 

[Xaos]

https://video.fbkk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/29084298_212435379492550_543873053017243648_n.mp4?_nc_fx=fbkk1-1&efg=eyJybHIiOjQwNSwicmxhIjo1MTIsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoic3ZlX3NkIn0%3D&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeGTUpmDzDLrTTVEMgranXhTMZu-hZ2UnyDnBSRWrKsTXNQF3D07g_WMErbw7yBe5M3FWi3sBU4PhXJ3SNDH85X1a-wVKuYft281D_3tWv00ng&oh=bd66af74e51538d8b9b95f7f32244582&oe=5AAA568F

 

It's sad cuz early treeted it can save life

[dfdgfdfdgs]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

PS - please can someone suggest how Bangkok could cope with 300,000 dog carcasses?

 

A single barge to Ho Chi Minh should do it.

[manchega]

always makes me feel warm inside when I realise some of the locals are sensisble thinking beings

[Beats56]

Require all dog owners to get a dog tag. To get the tag they must show a vaccination certificate. If dog is running at large without a tag take it to the pound. If it has a tag inform the owners a repeated office will result in a fine. The owners have to keep the dog in their yard or on a leash when walking. One other thing. Have dog park where owners can take and let them run for exercise.

Thais need get over the thinking a dog was uncle somchai in a former life.

 

[jak2002003]

14 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I have pointed out several times that islands are not the same as mainland diogs populations.

If youhave a relatively small isolated population, neutering, vaccinations culls even work. But with a ppopulationof hundreds and thousands scattered around the mainland, th situation is completley different. If you remove any animals they are rapidly replaced withy critters from ajoining areas.

One has to address the base causes of t popualtion and that is food - as suplies in garbage or by misguided people feeding them.

If they did as you suggest it would be hard to see all the starving to death dogs staggering about awaiting a lingering death from lack of food.

 

How come neutering, and culls have worked in most other countries them, like the UK, and most of Europe?

 

The first cull here would see an immediate effect.  Then just keep culling them a few times a year until the population dies out.  This together with education, enforced laws about animal abandonment, vets encouraging sterilisation of pets etc, and a few real dog rescue / rehome kennels would sort out the problem.

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, djayz said:

Although I love animals, particularly dogs, I think a cull is long over due. There are simply too many of the muts roaming the streets barking and scaring people.

Only necessary since they stopped dogs being sent to Cambodia or Vietnam to be eaten.

That sure came back to bite them on the bum!

[Rimmer]

An off topic troll post has been removed

[whaleboneman]

4 hours ago, Misterwhisper said:

Thanks for the clarification. I dislike the word even more now for its obnoxious definition.

Free passes to doggie heaven?

[kamahele]

Humans have caused this problem and yet people call for the dogs to be culled. 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

2 hours ago, varun said:

In typical fashion,  the Thai's have taken notice and are considering more drastic measures,

only after the issue has reached it's boiling point.

Better late than never.

But of course in this case it will still be "never".  A half-hearted start on the problem will then be quickly abandoned.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

3 minutes ago, kamahele said:

Humans have caused this problem and yet people call for the dogs to be culled. 

So, you want to cull the humans?

[Airbagwill]

9 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

If they did as you suggest it would be hard to see all the starving to death dogs staggering about awaiting a lingering death from lack of food.

 

How come neutering, and culls have worked in most other countries them, like the UK, and most of Europe?

 

The first cull here would see an immediate effect.  Then just keep culling them a few times a year until the population dies out.  This together with education, enforced laws about animal abandonment, vets encouraging sterilisation of pets etc, and a few real dog rescue / rehome kennels would sort out the problem.

 

 

 

 

You are  misinformed,

firstly you won't see starving dogs everywhere - where do you think Soi dogs go now? Float off into doggies heaven in a cloud of nothingness?

Dogs die every day - if you reduce or cut down the food supply the death rate hardly needs to change, what happens is that without food dogs instinctively don't breed - they have no food in the area they may try and leave but they won't settle down and breed. So you  are in effect cutting off the replacement of dogs with new ones. It's called natural wastage.

 

As for culls in other countries - they don't work! and never have - it took Netherlands 200 years to get their dog population under control and they did it my owner education and controlling food supplies. THere are no countries that have successfully culled and solved a dog population.

 

If you have as I've repeatedly stated a small dog population on an island then you can cull because dogs can't come from outside to replace them.

Thailand has a vast roaming dog population and a cull wouldn't even dent it.

What will happen is it will make the same number od dogs healthier and more of a problem to humans - in the end it could even increase the population.

 

When you reduce the population by restricting the food supply, it will after a while come down to a level where the type of restrictions used in the West can be applies. Dogs are caught, kept and if no owner is found they are killed. but this only works where the dog population is relatively tiny. first the population has to be reduced permanently and culling will not achieve this....it ain't rocket science.

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

If the topic was rats, would anyone be calling for them to be neutered and education for people? I doubt it.

Those soi dogs are just big rats and should be treated the same. If people want a dog, keep it at home, not letting it run around breeding more unwanted dogs, sterilise it unless wanted for breeding, and keep it locked up in the yard so it doesn't bite other people.

Before anyone attacks me for that, I have had lots of dogs, all of which were kept under control and treated properly. I'm differentiating between pets and feral dogs which are of no use to anyone.

 

BTW, people have pet rats and they don't let them run wherever they like.

[davemos]

The solution was along time ago to round up dogs and ones without collars were put in a holding pen .The ones that survived were vaccinated.

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, overherebc said:

My two are up to date with injections and although I would love to walk them outside I just feel now I can't. Luckily we have a big garden walled off and they have their own space to run around in.

Outside we have a few dogs that were thrown/let out when they stopped being cute puppies.

Both are big friendly dogs but if I took them outside they would have no problem 'sorting' any  loose dog that would be stupid enough to have a go. This would give me two problems.

1. What infections would they get and what would that cost me for vet bills.

2.  Some irrate 'owner' trying to claim for vet bills for 'their' dog, if it survived.

 

1. Apart from rabies and parasites CIV, which is highly prevalent in Thailand, is a possibility which the vet can't vaccinate against or fix.  My mother-in-law's kitten just died of FIV, the feline equivalent.

 

2. If your dogs displease a local in any way, he is more likely to deal with them with a choice piece poisoned chicken. The MiL also lost a dog that way, foaming at the moth and writhing in agony, poor sod. No one claimed responsibility but one of the neighbours had been grumbling about the dog chasing his chickens. 

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, varun said:

In typical fashion,  the Thai's have taken notice and are considering more drastic measures,

only after the issue has reached it's boiling point.

Better late than never.

Not exactly, they attempted a cull in Bangkok before and it flopped - but don't let that stop them from flogging a dead horse.

[chilli42]

4 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Because "cull" is the correct verb to use !!!

 

Definition  1.reduce the population of (a wild animal) by selective slaughter.

That would depend on the manner in which they plan to prosecute.  Perhaps they mean “exterminate” (to kill all the insects or animals of a particular type in an area) or “euthanize” (put a living being, especially a dog or cat to death humanely).  

[Airbagwill]

1 minute ago, Arkady said:

 

1. Apart from rabies and parasites CIV, which is highly prevalent in Thailand, is a possibility which the vet can't vaccinate against or fix.  My mother-in-law's kitten just died of FIV, the feline equivalent.

 

2. If your dogs displease a local in any way, he is more likely to deal with them with a choice piece poisoned chicken. The MiL also lost a dog that way, foaming at the moth and writhing in agony, poor sod. No one claimed responsibility but one of the neighbours had been grumbling about the dog chasing his chickens. 

Poisoning is a terrible way to deal with animals, especially in the amounts required to deal with a huge dog population.

the poisons will kill all sorts of other stuff, quite possibly children who play outside and then the residue leaks into the soil and water supplies, not to mention and extra health hazard in the dog carcasses.

[Arkady]

The only viable way to improve the situation, which is also consistent with Buddhist precepts, is a programme of educating dog owners to get vaccinations and neutering and vaccinating strays, such as the programme being carried out by Soi Dogs.  Government support would make it more effective. 

 

Allowing "culling" will certainly not make any impression on the problem but will give an excuse to a lot of sadistic people to murder people's stray dogs and encourage the dog meat trade.  Do you really want to eat rabid meat?

[Airbagwill]

7 minutes ago, davemos said:

The solution was along time ago to round up dogs and ones without collars were put in a holding pen .The ones that survived were vaccinated.

All the Soi dogs on my estate have collars, but they are not owned by an individual. so anyone who doesn't like your plan cannjust go and put collars on any dog they see......

where are you going to find holding pens for 300,000 dogs.....and the organisation/logistics to "vaccinate" them all not to mention their other health problems or the damage they do when re-released.

[Ron19]

A post against forum rules has been removed.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

 

[tuktukracer]

Maybe an idea to teach pet ownership responsibility and compassion and then maybe the "final solution" wouldn't be the necessary "stop-gap" solution

[jak2002003]

7 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

You are  misinformed,

firstly you won't see starving dogs everywhere - where do you think Soi dogs go now? Float off into doggies heaven in a cloud of nothingness?

Dogs die every day - if you reduce or cut down the food supply the death rate hardly needs to change, what happens is that without food dogs instinctively don't breed - they have no food in the area they may try and leave but they won't settle down and breed. So you  are in effect cutting off the replacement of dogs with new ones. It's called natural wastage.

 

As for culls in other countries - they don't work! and never have - it took Netherlands 200 years to get their dog population under control and they did it my owner education and controlling food supplies. THere are no countries that have successfully culled and solved a dog population.

 

If you have as I've repeatedly stated a small dog population on an island then you can cull because dogs can't come from outside to replace them.

Thailand has a vast roaming dog population and a cull wouldn't even dent it.

What will happen is it will make the same number od dogs healthier and more of a problem to humans - in the end it could even increase the population.

 

When you reduce the population by restricting the food supply, it will after a while come down to a level where the type of restrictions used in the West can be applies. Dogs are caught, kept and if no owner is found they are killed. but this only works where the dog population is relatively tiny. first the population has to be reduced permanently and culling will not achieve this....it ain't rocket science.

 

 

 

Out of interest, where are you getting the facts that reducing food supply will made dogs instinctively stop breeding?  Where do you find the figures to back up your facts that dog population will reduce if we 'restrict' the food supply.  You are still advocating feeding them.. just restrict it, right?  

 

Starving and diseased dogs will still breed, get pregnant and have puppies.  Just less will survive.  You think if the dog is a bit hungry it will just decided to not get pregnant or mate?  In fact a skinny starving dog will have skinny starving puppies, which will likely get diseases or die of starvation... so the suffering and animal cruelty would be INCREASING if you just restricted their food supply!  

 

I don't think you understand me.  If suddenly all the food for the dogs was gone there would be a dig die off as the dogs starved to death all at once.  Now when a few die they rot away someplace.  If they all started to die at the same time that is going to cause a mess, stink, and a health hazard.  

 

There are very few starving street dogs here... most die of disease of road accidents, not starvation.  In fact there are many overweight dogs about!  If you see a skinny one its not lack of food usually, its because it has some disease or parasites and the weigh loss is one of the symptoms.  

 

I am not interesting in your Island cull thing you keep repeating.. as this is not an island.