Pattaya expat threatened with jail after posting negative restaurant review online

[cat handler]

8 hours ago, Anythingleft? said:

Defamation, which is a criminal offence in Thailand, is punishable by up to two years in jail.

Commentators have said previously that Thailand’s strict defamation laws have been used as a weapon by the powerful to silence critics.



This law in its current presentation is crippling Thailand from moving forward...

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No different from any other country, even in Australia there was a story recently from a Legal Firm telling us that we can possibly be sued for leaving negative comments in reviews. Apparently you have to prove what you claim, and a restaurant has to prove that you made negative reviews that have hurt their business. But let’s have a whine about Thailand hey.

 

https://www.slatergordon.com.au/blog/do-defamation-laws-apply-online-reviews

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by cat handler

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The truth is not a defence in the Thai legal system. My policy is to say nothing, and not go back.

And good advice too. No one is duty bound to make reports on forums about restaurants they have visited. I've eaten at many lousy restaurants over the years. It's part of the adventure. 

[Rimmer]

An off topic ramble has been removed

[Anythingleft?]

 
No different from any other country, even in Australia there was a story recently from a Legal Firm telling us that we can possibly be sued for leaving negative comments in reviews. Apparently you have to prove what you claim, and a restaurant has to prove that you made negative reviews that have hurt their business. But let’s have a whine about Thailand hey.
 
https://www.slatergordon.com.au/blog/do-defamation-laws-apply-online-reviews
 

Nope, you maybe missed the point of what I was posting.
Your link clearly states that the action should be deemed as malicious, which is laudable, as that is the primary purpose of the act.
However the law, and the effect of how it is frequently applied in Thailand make it so that any opinions that do not necessarily agree with the offended party effectively becomes a tool to suppress freedom of speech. It gets waved around as a tool to suppress rather than used as a tool to protect....

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[wedders]

37 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

After reading the Thailand wine'n'dine facebook comments page I get the impression that post 105 is not too far off the mark as the moderator Peter Garwood mentions there are two other recent reports on the place and is wondering if the owner of the restaurant would like them deleted.

Lol no pizzas sold at the restaurant in question. Don't think I'm giving away much there ?

[sandrabbit]

Just now, wedders said:

Lol no pizzas sold at the restaurant in question. Don't think I'm giving away much there ?

ok good, it was just a coincidence then that he had mentioned that there were still 2 recent posts about it and they mentioned pizzas.

[wedders]

21 minutes ago, tropo said:

And good advice too. No one is duty bound to make reports on forums about restaurants they have visited. I've eaten at many lousy restaurants over the years. It's part of the adventure. 

True but we set up Thailand Wine And Dine - a flame-free, hatchet job free zone inhabited only by people who actually live in or have visited Thailand unlike the other group  - with the sole purpose of helping good quality, not necessarily easy to find restaurants and diners who don't want to waste their time eating poor to average food around town. Constructive criticism is fine. Our group is trusted as free of bias.

[wedders]

5 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

ok good, it was just a coincidence then that he had mentioned that there were still 2 recent posts about it and they mentioned pizzas.

It was me and I meant in recent months

[darksidedog]

Ah hah! If you want to know the truth, get a Dark Side sniffer dog on it.

I now know (totally by conincidence on where I got invited tonight), the restaurant involved and trust me, the issue is not with their food cos it is exceptionally good.

And, yes, I have been there before, so this was not a one off, or miraculous improvement.

I actually earlier in this thread suggested the food might be crap and they should work on it. Ooops!

When you see the CCTV of it all absolutely nothing seems amiss. Then a mysterious post appears that differs somewhat in its description of everything.

The restaurateur involved freely admits he was OTT in suggesting legal action, though it is also suggested the poster concerned runs a very similar genre of business, so possibly all was not as above board as we have been led to believe.

No, I am not naming it. It does seem from video evidence though that there are two sides to every story. It is now up to you what to believe.

[wedders]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

However, in my experience, most complaints are legit and good restaurants will offer to fix things if it's possible. Most Pattaya restaurants are not so good that way though. 

My experience - as a restaurateur before in Patts and knowing many owners in town - is different. I know few owners who don't bite their tongues and make a polite offer of some kind, right or wrong

[sandrabbit]

2 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Ah hah! If you want to know the truth, get a Dark Side sniffer dog on it.

I now know (totally by conincidence on where I got invited tonight), the restaurant involved and trust me, the issue is not with their food cos it is exceptionally good.

And, yes, I have been there before, so this was not a one off, or miraculous improvement.

I actually earlier in this thread suggested the food might be crap and they should work on it. Ooops!

When you see the CCTV of it all absolutely nothing seems amiss. Then a mysterious post appears that differs somewhat in its description of everything.

The restaurateur involved freely admits he was OTT in suggesting legal action, though it is also suggested the poster concerned runs a very similar genre of business, so possibly all was not as above board as we have been led to believe.

No, I am not naming it. It does seem from video evidence though that there are two sides to every story. It is now up to you what to believe.

I have a friend in the UK who used to make complaints about food and get meals for free even though he would eat nearly everything. Got so bad nobody wanted to go for a meal with him and his girlfriend. Eventually he got shamed into stopping it.

[wedders]

3 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Ah hah! If you want to know the truth, get a Dark Side sniffer dog on it.

I now know (totally by conincidence on where I got invited tonight), the restaurant involved and trust me, the issue is not with their food cos it is exceptionally good.

And, yes, I have been there before, so this was not a one off, or miraculous improvement.

I actually earlier in this thread suggested the food might be crap and they should work on it. Ooops!

When you see the CCTV of it all absolutely nothing seems amiss. Then a mysterious post appears that differs somewhat in its description of everything.

The restaurateur involved freely admits he was OTT in suggesting legal action, though it is also suggested the poster concerned runs a very similar genre of business, so possibly all was not as above board as we have been led to believe.

No, I am not naming it. It does seem from video evidence though that there are two sides to every story. It is now up to you what to believe.

Interesting, as I said I was there earlier too. But as a friend of the poster concerned can I make it clear he doesn't run a restaurant or anything along those lines. Indeed he doesn't work here at all.

[sweatalot]

9 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Hypocrisy and "face saving".

Two characteristics that keep this country down.

How can you improve without facing the truth?

I could hardly believe the verdict of the Andy Hall case.

 

... nor that of the Koh Tao case

Edited March 27, 2018 by sweatalot

[Bastos60]

7 hours ago, dutchweller said:

Correct 

But also the defamed would have to prove a loss 

 

And he needs to prove the review was not correct

[DUNROAMIN]

Easy fixed, find out the name of the restaurant let everybody know so that they can right a crappy review, after about 100-200 reviews the restaurant owner will be in a head spin trying to work out who to harass and take legal action against. Eventually he'll go away with his tail between his legs.

[Bastos60]

7 hours ago, balo said:

7 hours ago, Hooliganzone said:

An expat in Pattaya has been harassed, bullied and threatened with legal action after posting a negative restaurant review on Facebook.
 
I don't know what restaurant it is. But it sounds Thai owned...

Wrong , it's a farang owned place, think he is an American.

I don't think a farang can be sole owner of a business in Thailand. there will always be a Thai involved.

[chickenslegs]

3 hours ago, HLover said:

Could someone for the love of Christ be creative and just name the bar using Pig Latin?

Your welcome.

 

Amateurs.

Cryptic clues or spoonerisms would also be acceptable.

 

Also, 11 pages into the topic and we don't even know the nature of the complaint. Was his gazpacho too cold, waitress overweight, someone called him nong instead of pee?

 

Or was it something like this ...

 

 

[Jack Mountain]

Could it be a April 1st thing?

[maxipeon]

Well that <deleted> up, for one time I hope the restaurant will be named and shame.... All the ppl in the business have to deal with good and bad reviews... But there is a lot of smarter way to deal with it. And even if they guy was making a defamation claim, just answer him and prove him wrong. 

That is sad.

[soistalker]

Luckily, my wife is an excellent cook AND loves to cook. Personally, I hate eating out. Someone once asked my uncle if he gambles, and his reply was "only when I eat out."

Sure, it might be nice every once in a while to go out to eat so that we can be served by some Thai zombie whose idea of waiter/customer chit chat is grunting at you and coughing over your free water.

But like I said, I'm married. And woman like to eat out. If we do eat our, we go to an open air restaurant or a clean-ish street food place. Then we get a lot of dishes, and there's some to take home. Less than 300baht, so delicious, no expectation, of a tip, same quick service every time, and we get to experience more Thai culture than just a 75 year old Belgian in a wifebeater trying to mime to his latest Boyztown acquisition that he's interested in anal after brunch.

[sambum]

42 minutes ago, soistalker said:

Luckily, my wife is an excellent cook AND loves to cook. Personally, I hate eating out. Someone once asked my uncle if he gambles, and his reply was "only when I eat out."

Sure, it might be nice every once in a while to go out to eat so that we can be served by some Thai zombie whose idea of waiter/customer chit chat is grunting at you and coughing over your free water.

But like I said, I'm married. And woman like to eat out. If we do eat our, we go to an open air restaurant or a clean-ish street food place. Then we get a lot of dishes, and there's some to take home. Less than 300baht, so delicious, no expectation, of a tip, same quick service every time, and we get to experience more Thai culture than just a 75 year old Belgian in a wifebeater trying to mime to his latest Boyztown acquisition that he's interested in anal after brunch.

"Sure, it might be nice every once in a while to go out to eat so that we can be served by some Thai zombie whose idea of waiter/customer chit chat is grunting at you and coughing over your free water."

 

So what's nice about it? 

[Jonathan Swift]

14 hours ago, mikebell said:

If that doesn't work there's always guns.  The name of this restaurant MUST become public knowledge and be dealt with by the Court of Public Opinion.

Someone will get it onto facebook and take it viral. Outside of Thailand and in the world of professionalism and integrity a restaurant would apologize and offer a free meal, and promise to remedy the problem. I'm a businessman and satisfaction guaranteed is built into my business model. Nonetheless, there will always be incorrigible cranks and trolls, best to just ignore them after posting a reasonable response. BUT, as we know, TIT. 

[HLover]

Dear TVF,

Is it wrong for me to want the name of this location and bring some mates?

 

[Watchful]

5 hours ago, Anythingleft? said:

Nope, you maybe missed the point of what I was posting.
Your link clearly states that the action should be deemed as malicious, which is laudable, as that is the primary purpose of the act.
However the law, and the effect of how it is frequently applied in Thailand make it so that any opinions that do not necessarily agree with the offended party effectively becomes a tool to suppress freedom of speech. It gets waved around as a tool to suppress rather than used as a tool to protect....

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AL, excellent point!  

It seems to me that Facebook is doing nothing to protect its users.  In countries where free speech is thwarted by governments allowing people to criminally charge FB users exercising free speech on the FB platform, Facebook should take a stand. Facebook should denying posting access to everyone in those countries.  That is, while people in those countries could view Facebook, they could NOT enter comments or create Facebook accounts until such time as laws are changed to protect free speech.

Is this ever likely to happen?  Probably not!  Facebook is far more interested in collecting your personal information and selling it to the highest bidder. If governments want them to restrict free speech, no problem... as long as the $'s keep rolling.

It's truly unfortunate as Facebook has power. It is tremendously popular in Thailand and a threat to "shut down" over free speech concerns would certainly get the public's attention. In short, Facebook could actually do some good.  Unfortunately, $'s is their one and only objective.

Switching subjects to outing the restaurant  ... it seems to me publishing the name of a formal complainant in a criminal case is news worthy.  Edited March 27, 2018 by Watchful

[AlphMichaels]

As is too often the case, I stopped at "been been", aware I need waste no more time on such frivolity.  Editors may be taste testing the food fare for a review when they should be in copyrighting class.  Come on guys.     

[pistachios]

9 hours ago, tropo said:

Yes it is...  Mr Tropo's Pizza Place.

Wait. You can't be possibly that clueless.

In a thread where half of the posters thinks you are spineless coward, and the other half is asking what is the name of the restaurant so that they will never visit it in their lifetime, you are outing your own restaurant? How did you even manage to amass enough capital to start your business? 
 

edit : ok, there is no restaurant named Mr Tropo's Pizza Place, or anything close to that spelling. Seems like this poster is either a troll or has a modicum of self-awareness.

Edited March 27, 2018 by pistachios

[JimmyJ]

12 hours ago, 007cableguy said:

I just read about his verdict which made the news all over but haven't seen it on Thai visa!
Seems strange as it made international news!

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+1.

 

Never heard of it before, just read about it on Wiki.

[Sydebolle]

Had a restaurant back in Pattaya many years before which I sold and retired. I came across the most qualified as well as the most unqualified comments of diners. Everybody thinks (s)he is qualified to comment on food.

Food is emotionally influenced and rooted in your upbringing. The Brits love their mint sauce to lamb; a total No No on the continent. The Germans need sauce to everything, including breaded schnitzel with fries. The Swiss like their salad as a starter followed by a main course; the Irish like salad and main course together. For some cultures a meal is not a meal without bread and some cultures have never seen a fish knife. The list is endless and in a cosmopolitan melting pot like Pattaya you cannot be everybody‘s darling.

Posting bad reviews online is seldom the right and only way. Instead talk to the staff waiting on your table or the owner in a constructive way, if something was not the way you wanted it.

Look at TripAdvisor, too many ignorants comment on food, well hidden behind „handles“. TripAdvisor does not screen the reviews but certainly does the answers by the affected restaurant. I got a very nasty fake review and asked for more details which never came through. I then posted an answer including the statement, that everybody can put anything on TripAdvisor unlike i.e. Agoda, where the reviewer must have purchased the product otherwise a review is not possible. TripAdvisor refused to publish the last sentence and I had to tell them to either publish my answer as unedited as the initial review or take both down. The chose the latter. 

I told diners to go elsewhere as it was simply impossible to please them. Some pasta dishes are overpriced at THB 80 while I had the very best Paccheri on a tomato sauce to die for - at more than THB 500. So also keep that in mind; you cannot do a brekky for THB 49 and the restaurant is also no reviewable or responsible for nasty, noisy and misbehaving  brats jumping around at i.e. Mantra brunch at close to THB 2‘000 a person. There you have to get up and put parents and kids straight directly - but most are too coward to do so! 

[Shackleton123]

18 hours ago, kannot said:

More and more now and not just in Thailand (although its pretty strong here) saying something you think is becoming a  serious threat to your  health, In Europe  just open your  mouth about Islam and Muslims and you are Islamaphobic or "inciting terrorism"

You can only say  happy  positive things here that are shallow and empty, anything else is seriously frowned upon especially in "Farcebook"

That's true. In the UK if you dare to speak out against the 'global warming' claims (sea levels rising tens of feet and flooding places like Kiribati) you are branded and ridiculed. Nobody has noticed they are paying Carbon Tax every day, in the cost of fuel, and the added cost of goods delivered to stores by trucks using fuel. Nor have they noticed the UK Aluminium Industry no longer exists because of emissions controls, or that the UK Waste Management Industry is now owned by foreign business which is why it now costs so much. Global Warming is a massive money spinning industry, no government will ever deny global warming, but hey! let's not pretend it is what it isn't. Anyone notice the 'hole in the ozone layer' has healed itself?

 

[Henryford]

What about firms like Lazada. On every item you buy there are reviews from previous buyers. Some give 1 star bad reviews. Are they all prosecuted?