How stressful/difficult is teaching english?

[JoeW]

9 hours ago, mfd101 said:

It's interesting that noone ever mentions the need for QUALIFICATIONS [ie TRAINING] to do TESL. It's just assumed that, because I speak some or other variant of English as my first and only language, therefore I can teach it successfully to a bunch of dumb foreigners ...

 

Well, what an awakening awaits!

True actually totally slipped my mind. I hold a master degree in Japanese language and a BA in education. Your advice is probably the best ;-)

[rct99q]

I am always intrigued by people who ask about leaving their home country to come teach here. If you are between 30 and say 50 years of age these are supposed to be your high earning years. Why on earth you would waste this time working for nothing.  If your over 50 with one foot inthe grave...who cares, phone in the class doing as little as possible and most schools will still live you.  Better yet get a job with sine and just read the crap off of the board...noneed to have any knowledge of anything.  If under 30 spend a couple years having fun, earn a bit of cash and then go home a be a productive member of society.  Life really is too short to be doing something as mundane as a foreign teacher in Thailand.

 

And yes i taught here. With a few exceptions "teacher" is a very loosely applied title to what the average person does here. 

 

[simon43]

I got into teaching because there were no vacancies for rocket scientists in Thailand.

I wasn't trained in any way, shape or form as an English teacher. But I proceeded to gain relevant certificates (TEFL, Phonics, SEN students, speech therapy etc), so that I could be a better teacher than one who is a native speaker of English, but has no other qualifications.

I started teaching as a KG and lower primary English teacher. Now, some 6 years later, I teach English and Science (I have a science-related Masters).

I started online study for an MA in Education (zero tuition fees for EU citizens). But I stopped this study because - quite frankly - I didn't need the MA to do my job in a competent manner.

As for being over 50 with one foot in the grave, (as the previous poster commented), I'm 59 and just had my employment contract renewed for another year, with a pay rise (I get paid a 6-figure THB monthly salary).

The oldest grade in the school is currently grade 8 and my employer wants me to stay with them at least until that class has completed grade 11 studies. My students (whatever their age) are a joy to teach.

But I honestly believe that I couldn't have achieved this in Thailand, (where I lived for over 10 years). I teach in Myanmar, and absolutely do not regret moving to live and work in this country.

Thailand and teaching? Meh.......

[ChouDoufu]

are you wedded to teaching in thailand, or considering

other locations?  china has similar requirements, but:

 

*approximately the same starting salary

*one month paid vacation for spring festival

*two months paid vacation if extending contract

*health insurance paid

*round trip flights paid

*12-16 class hours per week

*few or no office hours or additional duties

*plenty of free time for gyming

 

above is for government schools outside of the big

megalopolises.

[Rhys]

.... love the students who come late to sleep in class...

.....love the students who come show up 1 time and show up after finals, and demand.. I only want just a C.

....love the administrators who are clueless and gung ho, and the Brown nosers that support it..

...love how the students don't ask questions.

... love how the students are developing thumb and finger skills.

 

 

 

[Scott]

Some of the nastier posts have been removed.  

 

 

[ozmeldo]

On 3/29/2018 at 10:49 AM, mfd101 said:

It's interesting that noone ever mentions the need for QUALIFICATIONS [ie TRAINING] to do TESL. It's just assumed that, because I speak some or other variant of English as my first and only language, therefore I can teach it successfully to a bunch of dumb foreigners ...

 

Well, what an awakening awaits!

TESL is not training, sorry. Too lol.

 

To the OPs first point, most teachers have never held real jobs and this is part of the issue in general with foreign teachers. They lack not only teaching skills, but have a poor command of English. Futher, no basic workplace skills and socialization. Lack of responsibility and zero work ethic. That's why they are here. They are unemployable back home. This is not a rant. I've met, worked with fifty teachers, at best 6-8 were worth a damn. Half I wouldn't pay 20k.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by ozmeldo

[ozmeldo]

20 hours ago, simon43 said:

I got into teaching because there were no vacancies for rocket scientists in Thailand.

I wasn't trained in any way, shape or form as an English teacher. But I proceeded to gain relevant certificates (TEFL, Phonics, SEN students, speech therapy etc), so that I could be a better teacher than one who is a native speaker of English, but has no other qualifications.

I started teaching as a KG and lower primary English teacher. Now, some 6 years later, I teach English and Science (I have a science-related Masters).

I started online study for an MA in Education (zero tuition fees for EU citizens). But I stopped this study because - quite frankly - I didn't need the MA to do my job in a competent manner.

As for being over 50 with one foot in the grave, (as the previous poster commented), I'm 59 and just had my employment contract renewed for another year, with a pay rise (I get paid a 6-figure THB monthly salary).

The oldest grade in the school is currently grade 8 and my employer wants me to stay with them at least until that class has completed grade 11 studies. My students (whatever their age) are a joy to teach.

But I honestly believe that I couldn't have achieved this in Thailand, (where I lived for over 10 years). I teach in Myanmar, and absolutely do not regret moving to live and work in this country.

Thailand and teaching? Meh.......

I applaud you. This is how it's done. We've no time to return to school and get some proper education and credentialing behind us.

 

It's every free bit of time dedicated to your kids, educating yourself online reading, videos and more reading. Obsessing over can be better, making it better. If your not in/directly doing 60 hours a week with activities, contact hours, lessons, exams, helping Thai teachers, reading, videos...your just pissing in the wind.

 

Four simple components to being a great public school teacher:

1. Core competence in the four basic skills as well as a number of tertiary skills. Knowing what your doing and what you're teaching. There is learning going on in the classroom.

2. Loving your kids as you would a parent, without reservation and expectations.

3. Having the aptitude and willingness to mix with Thai professionals and assist them.

4. Always professional in action and appearance.

 

* Ability create proper formative and summative assessments.

* Ability to use technology to create materials and hopefully in the class as well.

 

Otherwise, just GBH. You're not fooling anyone.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, ozmeldo said:

TESL is not training, sorry. Too lol.

 

To the OPs first point, most teachers have never held real jobs and this is part of the issue in general with foreign teachers. They lack not only teaching skills, but have a poor command of English. Futher, no basic workplace skills and socialization. Lack of responsibility and zero work ethic. That's why they are here. They are unemployable back home. This is not a rant. I've met, worked with fifty teachers, at best 6-8 were worth a damn. Half I wouldn't pay 20k.

 

 

Well, I'd have to agree with you that most teachers do not have QTS and accordingly should not be working in schools, but most else is absolute rubbish.  Nearly all teachers in Thai schools will be graduates and will have undergone TEFL/CELTA training.  Many will have worked in their respective countries for years, and perhaps decades.

[attrayant]

Stressful in some ways, but a breeze in others.  

 

The average English skill level in a Thai high school is closer to 3rd-4th grade level in the USA, so you won't be doing anything advanced.  Part of my last job back home was editing public relations documents for the city government, which required skills that I thought would come in handy here.  But those skills are WAY above any skills I used when I taught here.  I have my hard copies of the Copyeditor's Handbook and the Chicago Manual of Style, and never needed to refer to them once while teaching here.  I was expecting way too much from Thai students (the same is true in both math and science, by the way).

 

I taught what my students needed, which was simple sentence structure, parts of speech, clauses, punctuation and that's about it.  If you're going to be teaching English only, it'll probably be super easy in terms of the skill level you'll be expected to deliver.

 

The stressful part for me was that I was hired as a science/math teacher because of my EE degree and minor in chemistry, but after just one year, they dropped all kinds of remedial English subjects on me like basic vocab, conversation, reading comprehension and other very basic classes.  At one point I think I was teaching seven different subjects: two levels of math, two branches of science, health, vocab and TOEIC prep.

[attrayant]

2 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

[Most teachers] lack not only teaching skills, but have a poor command of English.

 

While you may be correct that lots of foreign teachers here would probably not be holding the same job back in their home countries, the fact remains they are not in their home countries and Thailand's TESL needs are extremely basic.  Thailand is in a 'beggars can't be choosers' position.  Millions of Thai students who are in high school are still stuck at 3rd or 4th grade as far as their English ability is concerned.  As it stands now, we don't need a highly qualified teacher with a masters in linguistics standing in front of sixteen year-olds explaining— probably for the twentieth time— what subject-verb agreement is.  By the time a kid is in their teens, s/v agreement should be second nature.

 

To belabor the point, at age five or six most of us were speaking English at a higher skill level than most Thai students do in high school, yet we were not exposed to any "qualified teachers", we picked it up from our parents.  My mother was a secretary (typist), not a teacher, yet I was somehow able to pick up the language from her.  Thai students need native English speaking "teachers" in those critical formative years, qualifications be damned.  Put the kids together with people - any people - who can speak English with them for a few hours a day from age 2-5 or thereabouts, and they'll learn it.

[duanebigsby]

4 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

TESL is not training, sorry. Too lol.

 

To the OPs first point, most teachers have never held real jobs and this is part of the issue in general with foreign teachers. They lack not only teaching skills, but have a poor command of English. Futher, no basic workplace skills and socialization. Lack of responsibility and zero work ethic. That's why they are here. They are unemployable back home. This is not a rant. I've met, worked with fifty teachers, at best 6-8 were worth a damn. Half I wouldn't pay 20k.

 

 

Total bunk!

 

I've worked all my life and excel at English. My mother was an English teacher and didn't let us get away from lazy grammar growing up.

 

"Further, no basic workplace skills and socialization. Lack of responsibility and zero work ethic." 

Bugger you!

 

I'm unemployable back home in my profession because I became a photographic darkroom technician in the '80's when it was lucrative. Computers made my work obsolete by 2011 so I came here. 

 

What's wrong with TESL?  It's an intensive course preparing people to make lesson plans, classroom management and learning tools for the classroom specifically English learners. There is practical classroom scenarios. 

 

In Canada and USA TESL courses are recognized as being qualification enough to teach at language schools, government programs, etc to teach students English.

 

I doubt you have met 50 teachers  at all let alone 90% as awful as you let on.

 

And yes, it was a rant.

 

 

 

 

[duanebigsby]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Well, I'd have to agree with you that most teachers do not have QTS and accordingly should not be working in schools, but most else is absolute rubbish.  Nearly all teachers in Thai schools will be graduates and will have undergone TEFL/CELTA training.  Many will have worked in their respective countries for years, and perhaps decades.

QTS training isn't required by the vast majority of countries around the world to teach English as a 2nd language .

TEFL or TESL are what non English speaking countries are looking for.

[duanebigsby]

23 hours ago, Rhys said:

.... love the students who come late to sleep in class...

.....love the students who come show up 1 time and show up after finals, and demand.. I only want just a C.

....love the administrators who are clueless and gung ho, and the Brown nosers that support it..

...love how the students don't ask questions.

... love how the students are developing thumb and finger skills.

 

 

 

Many foreigners come here and teaching is all they can do for work.

Many like it, many hate it but the students, fellow teachers, and school admin can see it right away.

 

Perhaps the students are responding to the fact that you hate your job?

 

I suspect your lessons are bland and uninspiring.

 

My students have always asked a ton of questions.

 

 

 

[Rhys]

1 hour ago, duanebigsby said:

Many foreigners come here and teaching is all they can do for work.

Many like it, many hate it but the students, fellow teachers, and school admin can see it right away.

 

Perhaps the students are responding to the fact that you hate your job?

 

I suspect your lessons are bland and uninspiring.

 

My students have always asked a ton of questions.

 

 

 

 ...not so blessed to have students like yours...

[mstevens]

6 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

To the OPs first point, most teachers have never held real jobs and this is part of the issue in general with foreign teachers. They lack not only teaching skills, but have a poor command of English. Futher, no basic workplace skills and socialization. Lack of responsibility and zero work ethic. That's why they are here. They are unemployable back home. This is not a rant. I've met, worked with fifty teachers, at best 6-8 were worth a damn. Half I wouldn't pay 20k.

 

Is it really still like that these days?  I remember a long time ago that the average foreigner teaching English in Thailand was not always the most impressively dressed nor the most well-spoken person you're likely to meet, but I thought things had changed somewhat since then.  I was under the impression that for some years now you needed a lot more than white skin and the ability to tie a necktie to teach in Thailand.  I could, of course, be out of touch......but I really did think things had improved.

[Rhys]

...the students have changed as well....or have not changed in regard to the ELL.

[brewsterbudgen]

QTS training isn't required by the vast majority of countries around the world to teach English as a 2nd language .
TEFL or TESL are what non English speaking countries are looking for.

Indeed. And the requirements to teach English as a second/foreign language are the same everywhere. There are currently hundreds of vacancies for TESL jobs in the UK, although many pay as little as Thailand!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[attrayant]

7 hours ago, mstevens said:

I remember a long time ago that the average foreigner teaching English in Thailand was not always the most impressively dressed nor the most well-spoken person you're likely to meet

 

I'm curious as to where your memories of the average foreign English teacher in Thailand came from.  Did you do a survey? 

 

7 hours ago, mstevens said:

I was under the impression that for some years now you needed a lot more than white skin and the ability to tie a necktie to teach in Thailand.  I could, of course, be out of touch......but I really did think things had improved.

 

Requirements were tightened up a few years back, but this has done little to change things.  Simply requiring your applicant to hold a particular piece of paper and undergo a criminal background check seems not to have been the magic solution... go figure. 

 

When the bureaucracy loosens its grip on the school system, and schools get to actually test and evaluate their applicants for actual ability, then we might start to see some improvements.

[mstevens]

2 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

I'm curious as to where your memories of the average foreign English teacher in Thailand came from.  Did you do a survey?

 

I am talking first-hand experience.  I taught for a period, first in a language institute where over a period of time I met about 50 foreign teachers working for the same chain, and later in a government high school where there were a dozen of us.  I knew plenty of teachers but don't have any contact with any of them since I left Thailand.  In the old days when I first taught up there, there were some real oddballs (we're talking 1999 / 2000).